[opensuse-marketing] making noise about Evergreen
Dear all! I read a lot about Evergreen on Pro-Linux. The echo their is, that Evergreen is a good thing, but it´s commit to death by almost the whole PL-community because their isn´t any "progress" seen by the users. So I ask you (and of course myself) "Why"? Evergreen is a great project and I think, it´s time to make noise about it and tell the people, what´s the benefit of openSUSE 11.1 Evergreen. I know, their´s a lot to do with the marketing on 11.4 and the development of 12.1 and the rest... But if anyone has some time left, please blog about evergreen or tell facebook or twitter about it! thanks PS: Sorry for crossposting, but I think it´s important for both lists -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador / openSUSE Wiki Team DE http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
AN OPEN PROPOSAL ON openSUSE VERSION NUMBERING: I have been giving the openSUSE version numbering issue some serious thought lately. I have come up with an interesting solution to the issue that I would like to propose to the community. I am in no way married to this idea but I do feel it is the best solution out of everything else that has been proposed. The core idea of the model that I am proposing is to have a set of minor number releases within an 8 month major number release cycle. I have outlined my idea to illustrate what I mean by this. 1) Every 8 months we should launch a major version number release. This would be kind of like Fedora does with their number every 6 months but ours would be every 8. (e.g. openSUSE 12.0) 2) After launch, we should release a new image(GoldMaster) with the updates/patches applied as a minor version number release, once a month for the next 4 months. This will help people who have not installed the major version release because of a bug to install a minor number release as bugs get patched. Also this will help to denote stability and maturity in the release (e.g. openSUSE 12.1, 12.2, 12.3, 12.4) 3) 2 months from the last minor number release we should release one more minor number(this will be 6 months from the original release of our major number)… this will mean the x.5 releases of openSUSE will earn a reputation and respect for being very stable (e.g. openSUSE 12.5) 4) After the x.5 release we should not release any more minor number images in preparation for our next major version number launch! I think this model would make our 8 month cycle more competitive while providing a more structured meaning to our version numbering and, more importantly, maintaining an identity of our own. Also this will show the fast development of our 8 month cycle. Some things to consider before deciding on or implementing this for our project: 1) The increased frequency of version numbering will mean we will have more opportunities to make noise about our distribution in a marketing sense. Also, the transition and change to this model will give use marketing opportunities to ensure the FOSS community knows of the changes before implementation. Keep in mind that more noise means more energy from our marketing team and ambassadors. 2) This is something that CAN be done however, we would need volunteers from the community to help with the added man power it will take to crank out the minor number releases. Though it may take some added effort to achieve this model, we have the infrastructure in place to help facilitate it (OBS, openFATE, Connect, Lizards blogs, Wiki pages, Forums, etc.). 3) The frequency of the minor number releases proposed above is NOT the heart of this proposal. Rather, it is a personal opinion on how the idea of interim(minor number) patched releases within our 8 month cycle can look. A NOTE: I know some will have an issue with this thinking that it abandons the 8 month development cycle but in my opinion this enhances it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On 2011-04-11 Drew wrote: Drew, ever heard of "tl;dr"? Google it ;-) In short, this proposal is to have updates to the GM every month or 2. It could fit in our current schedule of 12.1 - 12.2 - 12.3 - 13.1 - 13.2 etc by using another number (12.1.1 etc) or we re-think our numbering (but as we've already voted it's too late for that I think). Anyway, this'll probably see some more discussion on -project. I'm sure we all agree it's a good idea, I do :D The main objection is: someone has to do it. And unless somebody steps up, it won't happen.
AN OPEN PROPOSAL ON openSUSE VERSION NUMBERING:
I have been giving the openSUSE version numbering issue some serious thought lately. I have come up with an interesting solution to the issue that I would like to propose to the community. I am in no way married to this idea but I do feel it is the best solution out of everything else that has been proposed.
The core idea of the model that I am proposing is to have a set of minor number releases within an 8 month major number release cycle. I have outlined my idea to illustrate what I mean by this.
1) Every 8 months we should launch a major version number release. This would be kind of like Fedora does with their number every 6 months but ours would be every 8. (e.g. openSUSE 12.0)
2) After launch, we should release a new image(GoldMaster) with the updates/patches applied as a minor version number release, once a month for the next 4 months. This will help people who have not installed the major version release because of a bug to install a minor number release as bugs get patched. Also this will help to denote stability and maturity in the release (e.g. openSUSE 12.1, 12.2, 12.3, 12.4)
3) 2 months from the last minor number release we should release one more minor number(this will be 6 months from the original release of our major number)… this will mean the x.5 releases of openSUSE will earn a reputation and respect for being very stable (e.g. openSUSE 12.5)
4) After the x.5 release we should not release any more minor number images in preparation for our next major version number launch!
I think this model would make our 8 month cycle more competitive while providing a more structured meaning to our version numbering and, more importantly, maintaining an identity of our own. Also this will show the fast development of our 8 month cycle.
Some things to consider before deciding on or implementing this for our project:
1) The increased frequency of version numbering will mean we will have more opportunities to make noise about our distribution in a marketing sense. Also, the transition and change to this model will give use marketing opportunities to ensure the FOSS community knows of the changes before implementation. Keep in mind that more noise means more energy from our marketing team and ambassadors.
2) This is something that CAN be done however, we would need volunteers from the community to help with the added man power it will take to crank out the minor number releases. Though it may take some added effort to achieve this model, we have the infrastructure in place to help facilitate it (OBS, openFATE, Connect, Lizards blogs, Wiki pages, Forums, etc.).
3) The frequency of the minor number releases proposed above is NOT the heart of this proposal. Rather, it is a personal opinion on how the idea of interim(minor number) patched releases within our 8 month cycle can look.
A NOTE: I know some will have an issue with this thinking that it abandons the 8 month development cycle but in my opinion this enhances it.
You might find this long running thread in the Tech Help Forums (Install) interesting http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/install-boot-logi... IMO the comments in it are relevant. 1. There might not be a question there is some value here, but the question is still whether it's worthwhile enough to do "something" and there's some question exactly what that "something" is (which updates to include or exclude on such a short cycle). 2. Using Studio or possibly Kiwi, it's actually very simple for someone to compile minor iterative releases. As noted in the thread, it's likely pretty easy for someone with initiative and some effort (probably not much but still has to be continuous) to do this as a Community (unofficial) project. Tony On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Jos Poortvliet <jospoortvliet@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2011-04-11 Drew wrote: Drew, ever heard of "tl;dr"? Google it ;-)
In short, this proposal is to have updates to the GM every month or 2. It could fit in our current schedule of 12.1 - 12.2 - 12.3 - 13.1 - 13.2 etc by using another number (12.1.1 etc) or we re-think our numbering (but as we've already voted it's too late for that I think).
Anyway, this'll probably see some more discussion on -project. I'm sure we all agree it's a good idea, I do :D
The main objection is: someone has to do it. And unless somebody steps up, it won't happen.
AN OPEN PROPOSAL ON openSUSE VERSION NUMBERING:
I have been giving the openSUSE version numbering issue some serious thought lately. I have come up with an interesting solution to the issue that I would like to propose to the community. I am in no way married to this idea but I do feel it is the best solution out of everything else that has been proposed.
The core idea of the model that I am proposing is to have a set of minor number releases within an 8 month major number release cycle. I have outlined my idea to illustrate what I mean by this.
1) Every 8 months we should launch a major version number release. This would be kind of like Fedora does with their number every 6 months but ours would be every 8. (e.g. openSUSE 12.0)
2) After launch, we should release a new image(GoldMaster) with the updates/patches applied as a minor version number release, once a month for the next 4 months. This will help people who have not installed the major version release because of a bug to install a minor number release as bugs get patched. Also this will help to denote stability and maturity in the release (e.g. openSUSE 12.1, 12.2, 12.3, 12.4)
3) 2 months from the last minor number release we should release one more minor number(this will be 6 months from the original release of our major number)… this will mean the x.5 releases of openSUSE will earn a reputation and respect for being very stable (e.g. openSUSE 12.5)
4) After the x.5 release we should not release any more minor number images in preparation for our next major version number launch!
I think this model would make our 8 month cycle more competitive while providing a more structured meaning to our version numbering and, more importantly, maintaining an identity of our own. Also this will show the fast development of our 8 month cycle.
Some things to consider before deciding on or implementing this for our project:
1) The increased frequency of version numbering will mean we will have more opportunities to make noise about our distribution in a marketing sense. Also, the transition and change to this model will give use marketing opportunities to ensure the FOSS community knows of the changes before implementation. Keep in mind that more noise means more energy from our marketing team and ambassadors.
2) This is something that CAN be done however, we would need volunteers from the community to help with the added man power it will take to crank out the minor number releases. Though it may take some added effort to achieve this model, we have the infrastructure in place to help facilitate it (OBS, openFATE, Connect, Lizards blogs, Wiki pages, Forums, etc.).
3) The frequency of the minor number releases proposed above is NOT the heart of this proposal. Rather, it is a personal opinion on how the idea of interim(minor number) patched releases within our 8 month cycle can look.
A NOTE: I know some will have an issue with this thinking that it abandons the 8 month development cycle but in my opinion this enhances it.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
2. Using Studio or possibly Kiwi, it's actually very simple for someone to compile minor iterative releases.
As noted in the thread, it's likely pretty easy for someone with initiative and some effort (probably not much but still has to be continuous) to do this as a Community (unofficial) project. Just my words. Why make such big screaming about something that can easily solve on SUSE Studio. I mean, everybody who needs an 11.1 with
Am 14.04.2011 19:42, schrieb Tony Su: the latest packages, use openSUSE 11.1 remastered. Maybe somebody will do the same for 11.2 and 11.3 and 11.4 when it´s time and the whole discussion is over, because I (and the others) can say: "Hey, look at SUSE Studio, their is what you need, if not, branch from an appliance and create your own." thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador / openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org | http://www.suse.de Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Jos Poortvliet:
In short, this proposal is to have updates to the GM every month or 2.
It could fit in our current schedule of 12.1 - 12.2 - 12.3 - 13.1 - 13.2 etc by using another number (12.1.1 etc) or we re-think our numbering (but as we've already voted it's too late for that I think).
Or using Service Packs. openSUSE 12.1 Service Pack 1 as an example. or openSUSE 11.3 SP3. Novell/SUSE is using this for SUSE Linux Enterprise too, and I think, a Service Pack is normaly a good thing (unfortunately, Microsoft is using this expressions also, and I can imagine the whole comments on Pro-Linux like: You´re copy microsoft and so on....) Nevertheless, a Service Pack scheme has the advantage, that we can shipp infinitive of them. I mean, as openSUSE 11.1 becomes LTS´d by Evergreen, we had a large discussion about the name. Just call a ready SP (release + iso image) openSUSE 11.1 Service Pack x (short openSUSE 11.1 SPx (even shorter: oS 11.1 SPx)) and the whole thing is easy solved. thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador / openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org | http://www.suse.de Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On 2011-04-10 Kim wrote:
Dear all!
I read a lot about Evergreen on Pro-Linux. The echo their is, that Evergreen is a good thing, but it´s commit to death by almost the whole PL-community because their isn´t any "progress" seen by the users.
So I ask you (and of course myself) "Why"? Evergreen is a great project and I think, it´s time to make noise about it and tell the people, what´s the benefit of openSUSE 11.1 Evergreen.
I know, their´s a lot to do with the marketing on 11.4 and the development of 12.1 and the rest... But if anyone has some time left, please blog about evergreen or tell facebook or twitter about it!
thanks
PS: Sorry for crossposting, but I think it´s important for both lists
The problem with Evergreen is simply that there is on only one (or maybe 2) people working on it. That is why we don't give it much attention: there's quite a chance that those 1-2 ppl will give up and there won't be ANY evergeen... So unless other people step up, Evergreen doesn't have much future. If THAT is your message, feel free to talk about it. But don't be too positive about it unless we can find new people!
Am 13.04.2011 16:11, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
The problem with Evergreen is simply that there is on only one (or maybe 2) people working on it. That is why we don't give it much attention: there's quite a chance that those 1-2 ppl will give up and there won't be ANY evergeen...
So unless other people step up, Evergreen doesn't have much future. Well, here I see the problem: If we don´t promote Evergreen, nobody will notice it, except the openSUSE fanboys, 11.1 users and some nerds. If
True... It´s the bitter truth. :/ the project needs developers, we have to search ones. And that means, that we have to do some promo labour. That doesn´t mean, that we take the whole Novell PR unit and let them work on a billion dollar commercial, but if some of us have the chance to talk about openSUSE, Evergreen should be content of it. To make Evergreen attractive, I think, an easy installation-media is necessary. I created one with SUSE Studio. Feel free to link to it or use it. Why? That´s easy. Imagine they are 3 groups of users: *The beginner: He wants that his system runs and he doesn´t want to care about it all the time. He will use 11.4 *The intermediate: He sometimes cares about his system and do some things on his own. He will use 11.3 or 11.4 till the end of support and upgrade then. *The power user: He do the most on his own, but loves to use YaST and easy system config software because he doesn´t wants to stay on such little things for long and will continue his work. *The geek: Once he installed a system, he builds the rest from scratch. He will use Evergreen for his little homeserver and his workstation, because he wants to have a fallback, when something is wrong. So, he loves to use 11.1 because he got a lot software written for it, and maybe he wants to use KDE 3. So, his girlfriend has a new computer: She let him do the system work, because he´s like a "computer-god" to her. So. he can install 11.4 to her. But why? When the both install the same version, it´s easier to her to work on his computer too. So he, installs 11.1. So. updating the system is a boring, longtime work. So, he download my image and use evergreen. Kim, my time is not endless! Why do you write this? Well, Evergreen is a great thing, but an installation media would throw the project in front, because you got a regular snapshot of the evergreen work for easy testing and using. And it keeps 11.1 alive also when the isos where removed.
If THAT is your message, feel free to talk about it. But don't be too positive about it unless we can find new people!
Yes, this is some kind of the message. But the whole thing was more planned to finding new developers for evergreen. I think. evergreen got the chance to be a real advantage for openSUSE, when it get attention and some love by the marketing. thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador / openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org | http://www.suse.de Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On 2011-04-13 Kim wrote:
Am 13.04.2011 16:11, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
The problem with Evergreen is simply that there is on only one (or maybe 2) people working on it. That is why we don't give it much attention: there's quite a chance that those 1-2 ppl will give up and there won't be ANY evergeen...
True... It´s the bitter truth. :/
So unless other people step up, Evergreen doesn't
have much future.
Well, here I see the problem: If we don´t promote Evergreen, nobody will notice it, except the openSUSE fanboys, 11.1 users and some nerds. If the project needs developers, we have to search ones. And that means, that we have to do some promo labour. That doesn´t mean, that we take the whole Novell PR unit and let them work on a billion dollar commercial, but if some of us have the chance to talk about openSUSE, Evergreen should be content of it.
To make Evergreen attractive, I think, an easy installation-media is necessary. I created one with SUSE Studio. Feel free to link to it or use it.
Why? That´s easy. Imagine they are 3 groups of users:
*The beginner: He wants that his system runs and he doesn´t want to care about it all the time. He will use 11.4 *The intermediate: He sometimes cares about his system and do some things on his own. He will use 11.3 or 11.4 till the end of support and upgrade then. *The power user: He do the most on his own, but loves to use YaST and easy system config software because he doesn´t wants to stay on such little things for long and will continue his work. *The geek: Once he installed a system, he builds the rest from scratch. He will use Evergreen for his little homeserver and his workstation, because he wants to have a fallback, when something is wrong.
So, he loves to use 11.1 because he got a lot software written for it, and maybe he wants to use KDE 3. So, his girlfriend has a new computer: She let him do the system work, because he´s like a "computer-god" to her. So. he can install 11.4 to her. But why? When the both install the same version, it´s easier to her to work on his computer too. So he, installs 11.1. So. updating the system is a boring, longtime work.
So, he download my image and use evergreen.
Kim, my time is not endless! Why do you write this?
Well, Evergreen is a great thing, but an installation media would throw the project in front, because you got a regular snapshot of the evergreen work for easy testing and using. And it keeps 11.1 alive also when the isos where removed.
If THAT is your message, feel free to talk about it. But don't be too positive about it unless we can find new people!
Yes, this is some kind of the message. But the whole thing was more planned to finding new developers for evergreen. I think. evergreen got the chance to be a real advantage for openSUSE, when it get attention and some love by the marketing.
Well, if you want to do that, no problem at all. Feel free to write an article for news.o.o asking for help. You'd have to be a bit specific: mention some tasks people can do and who they can ask for help. Basically, go to the current evergreen developers and offer to help them search for people. Ask how people can and if they are willing to help/mentor people who want to join the evergreen movement. Then start writing ;-) A monthly blog on evergreen progress will surely also help a lot in getting new developers. Join the Evergreen mailinglist & IRC and write about what happens once every 3-4 weeks... Or even weekly: "list of packages updated: x,x,x" "Discussion on adding package Y to maintainance list" "new developer X joined and updated X, Y and Z". That kind of stuff. If you're serious about getting people for Evergreen, I have no issue with that whatsoever. Just put in the work :D
thanks
On Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:35:08 AM Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On 2011-04-13 Kim wrote: ... Then start writing ;-)
First thing to write is the process description, or (and) flow diagram of Evergreen maintenance. That will make clear to any interested what has to be done and how his time can be used. Potential Evergreen contributors are technical people that like diagrams more then 10 pages of descriptions. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Am 14.04.2011 05:34, schrieb Rajko M.:
First thing to write is the process description, or (and) flow diagram of Evergreen maintenance. That will make clear to any interested what has to be done and how his time can be used.
Potential Evergreen contributors are technical people that like diagrams more then 10 pages of descriptions. The first step should be, to mail the current developers of Evergreen and ask them for helping with hiring people. :)
Will do that as soon as possible thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendecker@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador / openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org | http://www.suse.de Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Drew Adams -
Jos Poortvliet -
Kim Leyendecker -
Rajko M. -
Tony Su