Re: [opensuse-marketing] Goals for openSUSE Greek team

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Henne Vogelsang

6 Sep 2010 6 Sep '10

09:52

Kostas, On 09/05/2010 08:26 AM, Kostas Boukouvalas wrote:

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On 25 August 2010 15:45, Henne Vogelsang
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We started the first ever greek web portal about openSUSE.

http://www.opensuse.org.gr

Great to see someone taking care of the greek part of our community. It's really appreciated. But why don't you translate our landingpage to greek instead of setting up your own page? :) You can then point your domain to www.opensuse.org/gr http://www.opensuse.org/gr. We already have an infrastructure in place for translating most of our infrastructure. I'm more than happy to help you with getting this going.

This goes for me, because starting the translations many years ago with others, we were surprised when we first saw the translated page of el.opensuse.org http://el.opensuse.org. We found the translator then, but as many of that era greek opensuse members, is not currently active.

Translating a wiki is a group effort. If you wan't to take charge of that you just have to say so. Especially if the person who started it is gone :)

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So, yes, it would be a Goal also to have the official greek opensuse page, up-to-date. For this as well as for the greek opensuse translations we will start our engines by October 1st.

Okay cool. That would be great!

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The reason i ask is that we have seen too many localized pages gone stale over the time with no possibility for us to put new people on the task. So please stay "inside" the project instead of doing your own infrastructure :)

Yes but we would like to have the autonomy of opensuse.org.gr

Autonomy from what? From the openSUSE project? We are an open source project where many people jointly work on a lot of things. On the distribution, the wiki or on spreading the word on conferences. We also work together on our web-pages. So if you want to contribute to the openSUSE projects web presence it makes little sense to keep your contributions outside the project on your own page. You should instead help to make the official pages better for the reasons i stated above. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

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Kostas Boukouvalas

6 Sep 6 Sep

13:24

New subject: [opensuse-marketing] Goals for openSUSE Greek team

On 6 September 2010 12:52, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

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Kostas,

On 09/05/2010 08:26 AM, Kostas Boukouvalas wrote:

...
On 25 August 2010 15:45, Henne Vogelsang
...
...
We started the first ever greek web portal about openSUSE.

http://www.opensuse.org.gr

Great to see someone taking care of the greek part of our community. It's really appreciated. But why don't you translate our landingpage to greek instead of setting up your own page? :) You can then point your domain to www.opensuse.org/gr http://www.opensuse.org/gr. We already have an infrastructure in place for translating most of our infrastructure. I'm more than happy to help you with getting this going.

This goes for me, because starting the translations many years ago with others, we were surprised when we first saw the translated page of el.opensuse.org http://el.opensuse.org. We found the translator then, but as many of that era greek opensuse members, is not currently active.

Translating a wiki is a group effort. If you wan't to take charge of that you just have to say so. Especially if the person who started it is gone :)

We currently have me and only one more person with fluent English in our resurrected greek team.

...

...
So, yes, it would be a Goal also to have the official greek opensuse page, up-to-date. For this as well as for the greek opensuse translations we will start our engines by October 1st.

Okay cool. That would be great!

...
...
The reason i ask is that we have seen too many localized pages gone stale over the time with no possibility for us to put new people on the task. So please stay "inside" the project instead of doing your own infrastructure :)

Yes but we would like to have the autonomy of opensuse.org.gr

Autonomy from what? From the openSUSE project?

We are an open source project where many people jointly work on a lot of things. On the distribution, the wiki or on spreading the word on conferences. We also work together on our web-pages. So if you want to contribute to the openSUSE projects web presence it makes little sense to keep your contributions outside the project on your own page. You should instead help to make the official pages better for the reasons i stated above.

So, now that the domain opensuse.org.gr exists, what do you suggest to do? To redirect it to the official site, the wiki? We' ll probably do it, if thats they way everybody works, and ok, it would make things easier for us, cause we' ll don't have to admin another joomla webprotal. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

14:03

New subject: [opensuse-marketing] Goals for openSUSE Greek team

On 09/06/2010 03:24 PM, Kostas Boukouvalas wrote:

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On 6 September 2010 12:52, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

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Kostas,

On 09/05/2010 08:26 AM, Kostas Boukouvalas wrote:

...
On 25 August 2010 15:45, Henne Vogelsang
...
...
We started the first ever greek web portal about openSUSE.

http://www.opensuse.org.gr

Great to see someone taking care of the greek part of our community. It's really appreciated. But why don't you translate our landingpage to greek instead of setting up your own page? :) You can then point your domain to www.opensuse.org/gr http://www.opensuse.org/gr. We already have an infrastructure in place for translating most of our infrastructure. I'm more than happy to help you with getting this going.

This goes for me, because starting the translations many years ago with others, we were surprised when we first saw the translated page of el.opensuse.org http://el.opensuse.org. We found the translator then, but as many of that era greek opensuse members, is not currently active.

Translating a wiki is a group effort. If you want to take charge of that you just have to say so. Especially if the person who started it is gone :)

We currently have me and only one more person with fluent English in our resurrected greek team.

That's okay, you have to start somewhere right? Please tell me your opensuse login names so i can give you access right for el.opensuse.org. Please get in contact with the wiki list and read through http://languages.opensuse.org/Help:Translation

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The reason i ask is that we have seen too many localized pages gone stale over the time with no possibility for us to put new people on the task. So please stay "inside" the project instead of doing your own infrastructure :)

Yes but we would like to have the autonomy of opensuse.org.gr

Autonomy from what? From the openSUSE project?

We are an open source project where many people jointly work on a lot of things. On the distribution, the wiki or on spreading the word on conferences. We also work together on our web-pages. So if you want to contribute to the openSUSE projects web presence it makes little sense to keep your contributions outside the project on your own page. You should instead help to make the official pages better for the reasons i stated above.

So, now that the domain opensuse.org.gr exists, what do you suggest to do? To redirect it to the official site, the wiki?

You should: 1. Translate www.opensuse.org to greek The source of the webpage is in SVN. You can check it out here: svn.berlios.de/svnroot/repos/opensuse/trunk/infrastructure/www.o.o/ simply copy the english directory (en) to the greek directory (el) cp -av en el and then translate the included html files. In the end you add an option to the file languages.html for greek. If you have done all that you can send the differences (svn diff) to opensuse-web@opensuse.org If you need any help with this don't hesitate to contact the opensuse web developers on the same mailinglist, they will help you! 2. After you have completed 1. you point opensuse.org.gr to www.opensuse.org/el Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

7 Sep 7 Sep

03:59

New subject: [opensuse-marketing] Goals for openSUSE Greek team

On Monday 06 September 2010 08:24:12 Kostas Boukouvalas wrote:

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We currently have me and only one more person with fluent English in our resurrected greek team.

It is important to understand that English is the most common language, but we trying to make people aware that they can translate from any language they know. Just check article accuracy. Some are translated long ago and not updated, other can be translated partially, just a part that was interesting to translator. Also you can use Google translations to create basic translations that can be improved by people that know English. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr)

08:32

New subject: [opensuse-marketing] Goals for openSUSE Greek team

Στις 07/09/2010 06:59 πμ, ο/η Rajko M. έγραψε:

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On Monday 06 September 2010 08:24:12 Kostas Boukouvalas wrote:

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We currently have me and only one more person with fluent English in our resurrected greek team. It is important to understand that English is the most common language, but we trying to make people aware that they can translate from any language they know. Just check article accuracy. Some are translated long ago and not updated, other can be translated partially, just a part that was interesting to translator.

Also you can use Google translations to create basic translations that can be improved by people that know English.

English is the most common language but we want to have everything in Greek since there are people who don't understand English and some don't understand English computer terms. We also want some people to solve problems in Greek. Here the Ubuntu community, after they created their Greek forum, they exploded the distro to the top. They are too many people who can solve problems in Greek. But I agree that we must check how's the wiki written and develop it (personally I don't know to use/write to the wiki). When a person comes to my LUG, they install him/her Ubuntu because he/she can find help on their forum. Personally I think that if the new user has problem, he/she will call the person that did the installation to ask for help. If someone is more than average, he/she can search the forum or the English forum for help. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

8 Sep 8 Sep

00:56

New subject: [opensuse-marketing] Goals for openSUSE Greek team

On Tuesday 07 September 2010 03:32:30 Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr) wrote:

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Στις 07/09/2010 06:59 πμ, ο/η Rajko M. έγραψε:

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On Monday 06 September 2010 08:24:12 Kostas Boukouvalas wrote:

...
We currently have me and only one more person with fluent English in our resurrected greek team.

It is important to understand that English is the most common language, but we trying to make people aware that they can translate from any language they know. Just check article accuracy. Some are translated long ago and not updated, other can be translated partially, just a part that was interesting to translator.

Also you can use Google translations to create basic translations that can be improved by people that know English.

English is the most common language but we want to have everything in Greek since there are people who don't understand English and some don't understand English computer terms.

Accent in my comment was on other languages, not on English :) You can find people that can use http://de.opensuse.org as a source. German should be more common foreign language in Greece.

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We also want some people to solve problems in Greek.

Which is our goal too. Five years ago when old http://old-en.opensuse.org was created, it was set that translations will go from English to other languages, in other words other language wikies would be just translations. Then, year after I stumbled on http://de.opensuse.org/Midnight_Commander that was not present in English wiki and create http://old-en.opensuse.org/Midnight_Commander . Ever since I advocate idea to treat all wikies as equivalent source of information. Then another year after came guy that wanted to translate wiki, but using http://ru.opensuse.org as source. He was good in Russian and not so good in English, but rules of translation were talking about translating from English. I had no objections, no one else commented and he did few pages. Problems he had made me think how to make translation just translation, not translation and creation of the wiki. Now, another 3 years after we are creating new wiki and rules that should cover both cases. This will create much more work for us, but it will be easier to find volunteers to translate, as required skills will be only language skills and minimal wiki skills, not advanced as it was before.

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Here the Ubuntu community, after they created their Greek forum, they exploded the distro to the top. They are too many people who can solve problems in Greek. But I agree that we must check how's the wiki written and develop it (personally I don't know to use/write to the wiki).

For basic use it is easy, for advanced use it can be complicated, but we are trying to create pages in the way that is supportive for people with basic wiki skills, to encourage people to start writing. Once you try and learn few formatting characters, you will see that is easy. Henne mentioned http://languages.opensuse.org . That wiki is in the beginning. I didn't transfer all basic files, but that is matter of days that will be done. Next step will be to isolate strings, that have to be translated, so that we can prepare pages for translation, which will make translation even easier, as you, or any other translator, will have not to think about where to put article, what category to use to group them together, etc. Just enter article and start replacing English with Greek. Once you are done with translation we can update http://el.opensuse.org to the newest MediaWiki version, translate few more things, if necessary, move all translations there and you will have basic wiki in Greek, with advantage that you don't have to manage server, MediaWiki software updates, testing and adding extensions, but only to think about content.

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When a person comes to my LUG, they install him/her Ubuntu because he/she can find help on their forum. Personally I think that if the new user has problem, he/she will call the person that did the installation to ask for help.

Agree. That is the reason to have http://languages.opensuse.org and other servers listed in http://languages.opensuse.org/Help:Language_wikis . As a side note, http://languages.opensuse.org/Help:Translation will see some changes in the next days, so don't take everything there as set in stone. What I wrote above is in general how it will work, but even that can see some changes in details of translation workflow. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

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Henne Vogelsang
Kostas Boukouvalas
Rajko M.
Stathis Iosifidis (aka diamond_gr)