Hello Ambassadors and friends.
First, I'm so glad about our meeting today, we have a good quality in numbers of participants and contents. Thanks for everyone!
Just for formalizations and to let everyone able to understand what we are planning to do for the openSUSE Ambassadors Program, I updated our Ambassadors Meeting page with a link to the meeting log. See the bottom lines of the page
http://wiki.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Ambassadors_meeting http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-marketing/2010/opensuse-mark...
Really thanks for Bryen, Andreas for help us to make this meeting happens. Thanks again for the VERY GOOD contributions sent by lupinstein, sakana, HelioReds, alexbariv, Barry-Ni, kknundy, kkemenczy, rtyler, oprea_luci, manugupt1 and gnokii. Sure, all of you had sent very valuable contributions and points to the table.
Some action that we got are listed bellow:
* CarlosRibeiro help to define/purpose a better plan for Ambassadors reports * Every ambassador should aggregate her/his blog on planet.opensuse.org * Carlos, lupinstein and sakana will work as volunteers to help running the ambassador program smoothly * CarlosRibeiro sends a mail to the Ambassadors ML, asking about what is missing on Welcome page * Barry-Ni` to research other Ambassador programs for comparative purposes, and if possible find volunteers to help him with research * Carlos will publish topics for the next Ambassadors meeting at Aug. 17th, same hour.
and some good points and infos that we talked about and we need to take care about it:
* Not enough Media to distribute during events for 11.2 * Install fest works great but needs more attention * We decided that more interactions between Ambassadors is needed. * Need more than one method of channel to communicate with ambassadors * Not enough Media to distribute during events for 11.2 * Lack of reports after Ambassadors attend events
* Next meeting - August, 17 sounds good for most part of the Ambassadors Team ?
Some fellows said that we have no votes up there, then... I would like to invite everyone on this list to vote some topics to help with directions for the next meeting, please we only need "Yes" or "No" as answers, letting more details about topics that WE pickup as valid for the next meeting, because next meeting will not be if "does we need or not" will be "how to be do it"
* Does we need to create templates for productive and collaborative reports?
* Does we need to develop Ambassadors welcome and first steps landing page?
* Does we need to take a look any free and available collaboration tool for Ambassadors program?
* Does we like to have Ambassadors Uniform?
* Does we believe is necessary to look around and have a brief idea of how other distros are working with similar Ambassadors program?
* Does we need to know who is using openSUSE (corporations). Is this kind of information important for us?
Last but not least, I would like to invite all Ambassadors to update their respective Users page, with a little introduction about them selfs to help us to know a little bit more about each other ;-) and be more productive next meeting.
Best regards for everyone CarlosRibeiro
2010/8/3, Carlos Ribeiro CRibeiro@komputer.com.br:
Hello Ambassadors and friends.
First, I'm so glad about our meeting today, we have a good quality in numbers of participants and contents. Thanks for everyone!
Just for formalizations and to let everyone able to understand what we are planning to do for the openSUSE Ambassadors Program, I updated our Ambassadors Meeting page with a link to the meeting log. See the bottom lines of the page
http://wiki.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Ambassadors_meeting http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-marketing/2010/opensuse-mark...
Really thanks for Bryen, Andreas for help us to make this meeting happens. Thanks again for the VERY GOOD contributions sent by lupinstein, sakana, HelioReds, alexbariv, Barry-Ni, kknundy, kkemenczy, rtyler, oprea_luci, manugupt1 and gnokii. Sure, all of you had sent very valuable contributions and points to the table.
Some action that we got are listed bellow:
- CarlosRibeiro help to define/purpose a better plan for Ambassadors reports
- Every ambassador should aggregate her/his blog on planet.opensuse.org
- Carlos, lupinstein and sakana will work as volunteers to help running the
ambassador program smoothly
- CarlosRibeiro sends a mail to the Ambassadors ML, asking about what is
missing on Welcome page
- Barry-Ni` to research other Ambassador programs for comparative purposes,
and if possible find volunteers to help him with research
- Carlos will publish topics for the next Ambassadors meeting at Aug. 17th,
same hour.
and some good points and infos that we talked about and we need to take care about it:
Not enough Media to distribute during events for 11.2
Install fest works great but needs more attention
We decided that more interactions between Ambassadors is needed.
Need more than one method of channel to communicate with ambassadors
Not enough Media to distribute during events for 11.2
Lack of reports after Ambassadors attend events
Next meeting - August, 17 sounds good for most part of the Ambassadors
Team ?
Some fellows said that we have no votes up there, then... I would like to invite everyone on this list to vote some topics to help with directions for the next meeting, please we only need "Yes" or "No" as answers, letting more details about topics that WE pickup as valid for the next meeting, because next meeting will not be if "does we need or not" will be "how to be do it"
- Does we need to create templates for productive and collaborative reports?
YES
- Does we need to develop Ambassadors welcome and first steps landing page?
NO
- Does we need to take a look any free and available collaboration tool for
Ambassadors program?
YES
- Does we like to have Ambassadors Uniform?
YES
- Does we believe is necessary to look around and have a brief idea of how
other distros are working with similar Ambassadors program?
NO
- Does we need to know who is using openSUSE (corporations). Is this kind of
information important for us?
YES
Last but not least, I would like to invite all Ambassadors to update their respective Users page, with a little introduction about them selfs to help us to know a little bit more about each other ;-) and be more productive next meeting.
Best regards for everyone CarlosRibeiro
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On 3 August 2010 20:48, Carlos Ribeiro CRibeiro@komputer.com.br wrote:
Some fellows said that we have no votes up there, then... I would like to invite everyone on this list to vote some topics to help with directions for the next meeting, please we only need "Yes" or "No" as answers, letting more details about topics that WE pickup as valid for the next meeting, because next meeting will not be if "does we need or not" will be "how to be do it"
- Does we need to create templates for productive and collaborative reports?
Yes
- Does we need to develop Ambassadors welcome and first steps landing page?
Yes
- Does we need to take a look any free and available collaboration tool for Ambassadors program?
Yes
- Does we like to have Ambassadors Uniform?
Yes
- Does we believe is necessary to look around and have a brief idea of how other distros are working with similar Ambassadors program?
Yes
- Does we need to know who is using openSUSE (corporations). Is this kind of information important for us?
Yes
Last but not least, I would like to invite all Ambassadors to update their respective Users page, with a little introduction about them selfs to help us to know a little bit more about each other ;-) and be more productive next meeting.
By all means, yes.
Cheers, Jimmy
I am sorry for the late reply, my internet was not functioning
* Does we need to create templates for productive and collaborative reports? ** Yes * Does we need to develop Ambassadors welcome and first steps landing page? ** That would be awesome * Does we need to take a look any free and available collaboration tool for Ambassadors program? ** No * Does we like to have Ambassadors Uniform? ** Yes * Does we believe is necessary to look around and have a brief idea of how other distros are working with similar Ambassadors program? ** Yes * Does we need to know who is using openSUSE (corporations). Is this kind of information important for us? ** No
On Martes, 3 de Agosto de 2010 13:48:30 Carlos Ribeiro escribió:
Hello Ambassadors and friends.
I unfortunately missed the meeting but reading the meeting log and I feel this is what we were needing to make contagious sparks.
http://wiki.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Ambassadors_meeting http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-marketing/2010/opensuse-mar keting.2010-08-03-15.00.log.html
These links above is a good start point to develop an Ambassadors Program and focusing Ambassadors power to influence the right targets. Yes, we need a point of convergence to focus skills and developing Ambassadors strength.
Some action that we got are listed bellow:
Every ambassador should aggregate her/his blog on planet.opensuse.org *
At this point not every ambassador have access to planet.opensuse.org.
and some good points and infos that we talked about and we need to take care about it:
- Not enough Media to distribute during events for 11.2
- Install fest works great but needs more attention
- We decided that more interactions between Ambassadors is needed.
- Need more than one method of channel to communicate with ambassadors
- Not enough Media to distribute during events for 11.2
- Lack of reports after Ambassadors attend events
Completely agreed
- Next meeting - August, 17 sounds good for most part of the Ambassadors
Team ?
YES.
Some fellows said that we have no votes up there, then... I would like to invite everyone on this list to vote some topics to help with directions for the next meeting, please we only need "Yes" or "No" as answers, letting more details about topics that WE pickup as valid for the next meeting, because next meeting will not be if "does we need or not" will be "how to be do it"
- Does we need to create templates for productive and collaborative
reports?
YES.
- Does we need to develop Ambassadors welcome and first steps landing page?
YES.
- Does we need to take a look any free and available collaboration tool for
Ambassadors program?
YES.
- Does we like to have Ambassadors Uniform?
YES.
- Does we believe is necessary to look around and have a brief idea of how
other distros are working with similar Ambassadors program?
YES.
- Does we need to know who is using openSUSE (corporations). Is this kind
of information important for us?
YES.
The capital letters on this answers are not yelling but highlighting. :-)
Best regards,
First of all, I'm very glad to see so many people enthusiastic to discuss ambassador stuff, and I want to thank Carlos for leading the meeting this past week. I've kept quiet to let you all speak up and enjoy the ability to offer your inputs.
One thing I want to say, please don't double-post to marketing and ambassdor mailing lists. If it is about ambassadors, keep it on the ambassador list. The marketing list is for general openSUSE marketing topics.
There is too much voting here on things that do not require a vote. Voting should be used when there is a need to agree on organizational issues. If you vote on every little detail, then it lessen the value of a vote. Please see my comments below:
On Tue, 2010-08-03 at 15:48 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
Hello Ambassadors and friends.
First, I'm so glad about our meeting today, we have a good quality in numbers of participants and contents. Thanks for everyone!
Just for formalizations and to let everyone able to understand what we are planning to do for the openSUSE Ambassadors Program, I updated our Ambassadors Meeting page with a link to the meeting log. See the bottom lines of the page
http://wiki.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Ambassadors_meeting http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-marketing/2010/opensuse-mark...
Really thanks for Bryen, Andreas for help us to make this meeting happens. Thanks again for the VERY GOOD contributions sent by lupinstein, sakana, HelioReds, alexbariv, Barry-Ni, kknundy, kkemenczy, rtyler, oprea_luci, manugupt1 and gnokii. Sure, all of you had sent very valuable contributions and points to the table.
Some action that we got are listed bellow:
- CarlosRibeiro help to define/purpose a better plan for Ambassadors reports
- Every ambassador should aggregate her/his blog on planet.opensuse.org
- Carlos, lupinstein and sakana will work as volunteers to help running the ambassador program smoothly
- CarlosRibeiro sends a mail to the Ambassadors ML, asking about what is missing on Welcome page
- Barry-Ni` to research other Ambassador programs for comparative purposes, and if possible find volunteers to help him with research
- Carlos will publish topics for the next Ambassadors meeting at Aug. 17th, same hour.
and some good points and infos that we talked about and we need to take care about it:
Not enough Media to distribute during events for 11.2
Install fest works great but needs more attention
We decided that more interactions between Ambassadors is needed.
Need more than one method of channel to communicate with ambassadors
Not enough Media to distribute during events for 11.2
Lack of reports after Ambassadors attend events
Next meeting - August, 17 sounds good for most part of the Ambassadors Team ?
Some fellows said that we have no votes up there, then... I would like to invite everyone on this list to vote some topics to help with directions for the next meeting, please we only need "Yes" or "No" as answers, letting more details about topics that WE pickup as valid for the next meeting, because next meeting will not be if "does we need or not" will be "how to be do it"
- Does we need to create templates for productive and collaborative reports?
Some things should not require a vote. Templates is an example. If you have an idea for a template, just create it and add it to the wiki. No need to get everyone's approval. If we sit around and wait for a vote for everything, then nothing will get done.
- Does we need to develop Ambassadors welcome and first steps landing page?
Again, this is an "empty" vote. Votes should be for something more concrete. Create some kind of prototype or example first and then you can ask for votes on it. Otherwise, we are voting on nothing because it is only a concept and nothing more.
Does we need to take a look any free and available collaboration tool for Ambassadors program?
Does we like to have Ambassadors Uniform?
This cannot be voted up at this time. As I have explained during the meeting and afterward with Carlos, we have no budget to support Uniform sponsorships. Right now, let's focus first on who is actually an ambassador and what tools we can help those ambassadors. There are too many people on the list who added themselves as ambassadors but did nothing. We need to know who is doing what and how FIRST. Then later on, we can consider to request a budget for ambassador uniforms. But to vote on it now is premature.
In the meantime, if any of you want to have a "uniform" just make one. As I mentioned in the meeting, I created several clothes myself and sent it to an embroidery shop. 4 nice button-down shirts with the openSUSE logo on the pocket side, and one sun visor cap with the openSUSE logo on it. You can do it. You don't need a vote for that.
Please do not assume that many yes votes means we will get uniforms. We have nothing to support it yet and we have to do first things first.
- Does we believe is necessary to look around and have a brief idea of how other distros are working with similar Ambassadors program?
Again, no need to vote. Anyone should feel free to look around and get some ideas from other programs similar to ours. That's how the world works. If we follow a vote, then we can't look around? That's not being productive. Feel free to look around. Barry Nichols did an excellent job starting to gather information about other programs out there to compare with.
- Does we need to know who is using openSUSE (corporations). Is this kind of information important for us?
Again, why vote? If you know of a success story, publish it! Blog about it, add it to the wiki, create a brochure about it, anything. But no need to vote. Just do it.
Last but not least, I would like to invite all Ambassadors to update their respective Users page, with a little introduction about them selfs to help us to know a little bit more about each other ;-) and be more productive next meeting.
Best regards for everyone CarlosRibeiro
On Sunday 08 August 2010 23:28:31 Bryen M. Yunashko wrote:
First of all, I'm very glad to see so many people enthusiastic to discuss ambassador stuff, and I want to thank Carlos for leading the meeting this past week. I've kept quiet to let you all speak up and enjoy the ability to offer your inputs.
I would like to join our dear rocking suse dude in saying thanks to Carlos. And also in his comments on 'this doesn't need voting'. Often, just saying you want to do something, or even just doing it is fine.
While this is marketing, we're still a FOSS community. That means we're a meritocracy. That means 'show me the code instead of critisism'. That means 'who codes, decides'.
IOW if you are willing to contribute, you have the authority BY DEFINITION to do so. You are allowed to make choices concerning what you do. Because you are responsible for what you do. Of course you have to cooperate, but you don't have to ask permission for everything. No bosses here ;-)
Anyway, that was all just said, I only wanted to underline it once more...
Hugs,
Jos
Hello,
so its now time to respond to that,
First of all, I'm very glad to see so many people enthusiastic to discuss ambassador stuff, and I want to thank Carlos for leading the meeting this past week. I've kept quiet to let you all speak up and enjoy the ability to offer your inputs.
One thing I want to say, please don't double-post to marketing and ambassdor mailing lists. If it is about ambassadors, keep it on the ambassador list. The marketing list is for general openSUSE marketing topics.
point here as I requested the ambassador list it wasnt to have a place for discussions about ambassadors, it was to reduce my work what I always have to keep my list with ambassador mail addresses up to date!
So the ambassadors list should not a place for discussions. Its created to speak to the ambassadors easy nothing more!
There is too much voting here on things that do not require a vote. Voting should be used when there is a need to agree on organizational issues. If you vote on every little detail, then it lessen the value of a vote. Please see my comments below:
Find that very funny, at the most topics havent to be a discussion. 2 reasons most of them are discussed before without a practicable solution. And all of them are the back of the horse, and its better to begin on front ;)
Why that can happen is really simple, there is a new person to the project and get a task like this. Ok, he stepped forward as there was the question for an volunteer.
Can it be that I invest since a long time working on improve the ambassador program? Can it be suseROCKs and AJaeger know that?
So in Germany its simple, when u give another person a task where is another working on, then u are not happy with his work.
So I ask here now suseROCKs and AJaeger u are unhappy with my work? If not, then explain me why that ambassador meeting was called this way!
So for me are more importent things in ambassador program to bring all ambassadors to have her user page in wiki again and have an functional mail address. And after that to become from all ambassadors work reports
btw: Carlos Ribeiro where is urs from launch party?
and after that or better I say for let this happen we have to find a way to publish them in a good way
thats more importent as to have "uniforms" and the other stuff is discussed.
br gnokii
On Tue, 2010-08-03 at 15:48 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
Hello Ambassadors and friends.
First, I'm so glad about our meeting today, we have a good quality in numbers of participants and contents. Thanks for everyone!
Just for formalizations and to let everyone able to understand what we are planning to do for the openSUSE Ambassadors Program, I updated our Ambassadors Meeting page with a link to the meeting log. See the bottom lines of the page
http://wiki.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Ambassadors_meeting http://community.opensuse.org/meetings/opensuse-marketing/2010/opensuse-mark...
Really thanks for Bryen, Andreas for help us to make this meeting happens. Thanks again for the VERY GOOD contributions sent by lupinstein, sakana, HelioReds, alexbariv, Barry-Ni, kknundy, kkemenczy, rtyler, oprea_luci, manugupt1 and gnokii. Sure, all of you had sent very valuable contributions and points to the table.
Some action that we got are listed bellow:
- CarlosRibeiro help to define/purpose a better plan for Ambassadors reports
- Every ambassador should aggregate her/his blog on planet.opensuse.org
- Carlos, lupinstein and sakana will work as volunteers to help running the ambassador program smoothly
- CarlosRibeiro sends a mail to the Ambassadors ML, asking about what is missing on Welcome page
- Barry-Ni` to research other Ambassador programs for comparative purposes, and if possible find volunteers to help him with research
- Carlos will publish topics for the next Ambassadors meeting at Aug. 17th, same hour.
and some good points and infos that we talked about and we need to take care about it:
Not enough Media to distribute during events for 11.2
Install fest works great but needs more attention
We decided that more interactions between Ambassadors is needed.
Need more than one method of channel to communicate with ambassadors
Not enough Media to distribute during events for 11.2
Lack of reports after Ambassadors attend events
Next meeting - August, 17 sounds good for most part of the Ambassadors Team ?
Some fellows said that we have no votes up there, then... I would like to invite everyone on this list to vote some topics to help with directions for the next meeting, please we only need "Yes" or "No" as answers, letting more details about topics that WE pickup as valid for the next meeting, because next meeting will not be if "does we need or not" will be "how to be do it"
- Does we need to create templates for productive and collaborative reports?
Some things should not require a vote. Templates is an example. If you have an idea for a template, just create it and add it to the wiki. No need to get everyone's approval. If we sit around and wait for a vote for everything, then nothing will get done.
- Does we need to develop Ambassadors welcome and first steps landing page?
Again, this is an "empty" vote. Votes should be for something more concrete. Create some kind of prototype or example first and then you can ask for votes on it. Otherwise, we are voting on nothing because it is only a concept and nothing more.
Does we need to take a look any free and available collaboration tool for Ambassadors program?
Does we like to have Ambassadors Uniform?
This cannot be voted up at this time. As I have explained during the meeting and afterward with Carlos, we have no budget to support Uniform sponsorships. Right now, let's focus first on who is actually an ambassador and what tools we can help those ambassadors. There are too many people on the list who added themselves as ambassadors but did nothing. We need to know who is doing what and how FIRST. Then later on, we can consider to request a budget for ambassador uniforms. But to vote on it now is premature.
In the meantime, if any of you want to have a "uniform" just make one. As I mentioned in the meeting, I created several clothes myself and sent it to an embroidery shop. 4 nice button-down shirts with the openSUSE logo on the pocket side, and one sun visor cap with the openSUSE logo on it. You can do it. You don't need a vote for that.
Please do not assume that many yes votes means we will get uniforms. We have nothing to support it yet and we have to do first things first.
- Does we believe is necessary to look around and have a brief idea of how other distros are working with similar Ambassadors program?
Again, no need to vote. Anyone should feel free to look around and get some ideas from other programs similar to ours. That's how the world works. If we follow a vote, then we can't look around? That's not being productive. Feel free to look around. Barry Nichols did an excellent job starting to gather information about other programs out there to compare with.
- Does we need to know who is using openSUSE (corporations). Is this kind of information important for us?
Again, why vote? If you know of a success story, publish it! Blog about it, add it to the wiki, create a brochure about it, anything. But no need to vote. Just do it.
Last but not least, I would like to invite all Ambassadors to update their respective Users page, with a little introduction about them selfs to help us to know a little bit more about each other ;-) and be more productive next meeting.
Best regards for everyone CarlosRibeiro
On Tuesday 10 August 2010 22:24:02 S.Kemter wrote:
Hello,
so its now time to respond to that,
First of all, I'm very glad to see so many people enthusiastic to discuss ambassador stuff, and I want to thank Carlos for leading the meeting this past week. I've kept quiet to let you all speak up and enjoy the ability to offer your inputs.
One thing I want to say, please don't double-post to marketing and ambassdor mailing lists. If it is about ambassadors, keep it on the ambassador list. The marketing list is for general openSUSE marketing topics.
point here as I requested the ambassador list it wasnt to have a place for discussions about ambassadors, it was to reduce my work what I always have to keep my list with ambassador mail addresses up to date!
So the ambassadors list should not a place for discussions. Its created to speak to the ambassadors easy nothing more!
Ok, I think here we simply have a little difference of how ppl understood this mailinglist.
And I think both the 'we need a list to communicate towards the ambasadors' and 'we need a list where ambasadors can discuss things' are valid needs.
The question then is - should that be one, or two lists. I personally think having two lists is not very efficient, I guess you agree? If you do, I think we should just acknowledge we had a little misunderstanding here - which is typical for online communication. Nobody has to be blamed... Shit happens and we can move on.
If you think we should have two lists the ambasadors should sign up for, I'd love to hear your arguments so the team can discuss it.
There is too much voting here on things that do not require a vote. Voting should be used when there is a need to agree on organizational issues. If you vote on every little detail, then it lessen the value of a vote. Please see my comments below:
Find that very funny, at the most topics havent to be a discussion. 2 reasons most of them are discussed before without a practicable solution. And all of them are the back of the horse, and its better to begin on front ;)
Why that can happen is really simple, there is a new person to the project and get a task like this. Ok, he stepped forward as there was the question for an volunteer.
Can it be that I invest since a long time working on improve the ambassador program? Can it be suseROCKs and AJaeger know that?
So in Germany its simple, when u give another person a task where is another working on, then u are not happy with his work.
So I ask here now suseROCKs and AJaeger u are unhappy with my work? If not, then explain me why that ambassador meeting was called this way!
So I can't speak for both of them, but I did already say something about this on IRC. First of all, I doubt they are unhappy with your work - both have said to me in private several times that you are doing a great job. So that is not the point.
I think things in the FOSS world simply work different from germany - if a job is assigned, it still doesn't mean if someone else comes up and offers to help, he /she can't go ahead and do it. As long as it is communicated (so no work is done twice) there shouldn't be a problem - if you think it wasn't done well enough, you can comment, help out, improve it. It's all open and public, after all.
As I said on IRC, we should be happy if someone takes up a job we were supposed to do: it means you can do something else, and there is plenty of work.
Now I know some jobs are simply nice to do, as they are either fun or have some status attached to them. Such things can be a bit more sensitive. Now I don't know to what extend this was discussed, however, I would call on everyone to think about that: if someone is supposed to do something, be careful with taking it over. Discuss it with that person first: make clear it is NOT because he/she doesn't do a good job, but because you have time and are interested in doing it.
In this case, it would've been nice if Carlos, who wanted to do this, contacted gnokki and asked him if he's ok with it.
So for me are more importent things in ambassador program to bring all ambassadors to have her user page in wiki again and have an functional mail address. And after that to become from all ambassadors work reports
Now here is another thing: you have different goals and priorities than others. That is *always* the case, we're all different after all. It doesn't mean we don't share your goals, but others might just have different priorities.
I think we must acknowledge that we have different ideas on what is important. We can discuss it, but don't expect everyone to agree. The only thing you can really do is work on what YOU think is important...
btw: Carlos Ribeiro where is urs from launch party?
and after that or better I say for let this happen we have to find a way to publish them in a good way
thats more importent as to have "uniforms" and the other stuff is discussed.
When it comes to the specific things which were discussed by Carlos, it is perfectly OK to say that you disagree with some things, as long as you do it politely. Understand, again, we're all different. Especially considering Carlos is from the other side of this planet - we have a cultural barrier there, too, and you must be consious of that. So disagreement - OK, being mean: NOT ACCEPTABLE.
I love how Carlos has been so active, and while I might not always agree with his priorities, what does that matter? He's here and doing good work.
The same goes for you, btw - I don't always agree with you either but that doesn't mean I don't like you.
Please keep that in mind - we're all human, we're all different, it's OK to discuss things but in the end we must accept our differences or we can't work together anymore.
hugs
Jos
br gnokii
Am Mittwoch, den 11.08.2010, 13:40 +0200 schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
On Tuesday 10 August 2010 22:24:02 S.Kemter wrote:
Hello,
so its now time to respond to that,
First of all, I'm very glad to see so many people enthusiastic to discuss ambassador stuff, and I want to thank Carlos for leading the meeting this past week. I've kept quiet to let you all speak up and enjoy the ability to offer your inputs.
One thing I want to say, please don't double-post to marketing and ambassdor mailing lists. If it is about ambassadors, keep it on the ambassador list. The marketing list is for general openSUSE marketing topics.
point here as I requested the ambassador list it wasnt to have a place for discussions about ambassadors, it was to reduce my work what I always have to keep my list with ambassador mail addresses up to date!
So the ambassadors list should not a place for discussions. Its created to speak to the ambassadors easy nothing more!
Ok, I think here we simply have a little difference of how ppl understood this mailinglist.
And I think both the 'we need a list to communicate towards the ambasadors' and 'we need a list where ambasadors can discuss things' are valid needs.
Jos plz ask u self what have they to discuss? Its not better to make 10 new list so that, the ambassadors of north and south america, of africa, europe and os on haver her own?
Can discussions not made on marketing list or better in IRC? I think there are mostly 5 for some regions not more. Even in india, ok there stand arround 30 on the list but how many are active?
The question then is - should that be one, or two lists. I personally think having two lists is not very efficient, I guess you agree? If you do, I think we should just acknowledge we had a little misunderstanding here - which is typical for online communication. Nobody has to be blamed... Shit happens and we can move on.
If you think we should have two lists the ambasadors should sign up for, I'd love to hear your arguments so the team can discuss it.
There is too much voting here on things that do not require a vote. Voting should be used when there is a need to agree on organizational issues. If you vote on every little detail, then it lessen the value of a vote. Please see my comments below:
Find that very funny, at the most topics havent to be a discussion. 2 reasons most of them are discussed before without a practicable solution. And all of them are the back of the horse, and its better to begin on front ;)
Why that can happen is really simple, there is a new person to the project and get a task like this. Ok, he stepped forward as there was the question for an volunteer.
Can it be that I invest since a long time working on improve the ambassador program? Can it be suseROCKs and AJaeger know that?
So in Germany its simple, when u give another person a task where is another working on, then u are not happy with his work.
So I ask here now suseROCKs and AJaeger u are unhappy with my work? If not, then explain me why that ambassador meeting was called this way!
So I can't speak for both of them, but I did already say something about this on IRC. First of all, I doubt they are unhappy with your work - both have said to me in private several times that you are doing a great job. So that is not the point.
that question was for them ;)
I think things in the FOSS world simply work different from germany - if a job is assigned, it still doesn't mean if someone else comes up and offers to help, he /she can't go ahead and do it. As long as it is communicated (so no work is done twice) there shouldn't be a problem - if you think it wasn't done well enough, you can comment, help out, improve it. It's all open and public, after all.
there is no problem to work together on such a thing on the contrary
As I said on IRC, we should be happy if someone takes up a job we were supposed to do: it means you can do something else, and there is plenty of work.
Now I know some jobs are simply nice to do, as they are either fun or have some status attached to them. Such things can be a bit more sensitive. Now I don't know to what extend this was discussed, however, I would call on everyone to think about that: if someone is supposed to do something, be careful with taking it over. Discuss it with that person first: make clear it is NOT because he/she doesn't do a good job, but because you have time and are interested in doing it.
In this case, it would've been nice if Carlos, who wanted to do this, contacted gnokki and asked him if he's ok with it.
So for me are more importent things in ambassador program to bring all ambassadors to have her user page in wiki again and have an functional mail address. And after that to become from all ambassadors work reports
Now here is another thing: you have different goals and priorities than others. That is *always* the case, we're all different after all. It doesn't mean we don't share your goals, but others might just have different priorities.
so see if Carlos had setup a schedule with what should ur priorities to improve the program. There would be no problem ;) on the contrary
I think we must acknowledge that we have different ideas on what is important. We can discuss it, but don't expect everyone to agree. The only thing you can really do is work on what YOU think is important...
btw: Carlos Ribeiro where is urs from launch party?
and after that or better I say for let this happen we have to find a way to publish them in a good way
thats more importent as to have "uniforms" and the other stuff is discussed.
When it comes to the specific things which were discussed by Carlos, it is perfectly OK to say that you disagree with some things, as long as you do it politely. Understand, again, we're all different. Especially considering Carlos is from the other side of this planet - we have a cultural barrier there, too, and you must be consious of that. So disagreement - OK, being mean: NOT ACCEPTABLE.
First I have definitly no barrier between me and another culture
u writing about cultural differences thats like differnces between fedora and ubuntu always looking to fedora ooh they have nice blue shirts we must have that too.
Why always copying other without a inquiry are we equal at this point? Its not easier at this time to take that black shirt with the green geeko?
I love how Carlos has been so active, and while I might not always agree with his priorities, what does that matter? He's here and doing good work.
The same goes for you, btw - I don't always agree with you either but that doesn't mean I don't like you.
of course u dont agree always with me, and that I say sometimes directly "u are wrong" or "no" that meany not I do not respect u as human being. I am not a politician I dont be such (sorry) slimy person. I am directly thats my fashion.
Please keep that in mind - we're all human, we're all different, it's OK to discuss things but in the end we must accept our differences or we can't work together anymore.
hugs
Jos
br gnokii
On Wednesday 11 August 2010 15:02:26 S.Kemter wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 11.08.2010, 13:40 +0200 schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
On Tuesday 10 August 2010 22:24:02 S.Kemter wrote:
Hello,
so its now time to respond to that,
First of all, I'm very glad to see so many people enthusiastic to discuss ambassador stuff, and I want to thank Carlos for leading the meeting this past week. I've kept quiet to let you all speak up and enjoy the ability to offer your inputs.
One thing I want to say, please don't double-post to marketing and ambassdor mailing lists. If it is about ambassadors, keep it on the ambassador list. The marketing list is for general openSUSE marketing topics.
point here as I requested the ambassador list it wasnt to have a place for discussions about ambassadors, it was to reduce my work what I always have to keep my list with ambassador mail addresses up to date!
So the ambassadors list should not a place for discussions. Its created to speak to the ambassadors easy nothing more!
Ok, I think here we simply have a little difference of how ppl understood this mailinglist.
And I think both the 'we need a list to communicate towards the ambasadors' and 'we need a list where ambasadors can discuss things' are valid needs.
Jos plz ask u self what have they to discuss? Its not better to make 10 new list so that, the ambassadors of north and south america, of africa, europe and os on haver her own?
Can discussions not made on marketing list or better in IRC? I think there are mostly 5 for some regions not more. Even in india, ok there stand arround 30 on the list but how many are active?
The question of active ambassadors is another topic - I wrote all ambassadors that we remove those from the list that don't create one until end of August...
IRC discussions will not work - and I see a team list as beneficial as some discussions already showed.
The question then is - should that be one, or two lists. I personally think having two lists is not very efficient, I guess you agree? If you do, I think we should just acknowledge we had a little misunderstanding here - which is typical for online communication. Nobody has to be blamed... Shit happens and we can move on.
If you think we should have two lists the ambasadors should sign up for, I'd love to hear your arguments so the team can discuss it.
I agree with Jos here.
There is too much voting here on things that do not require a vote. Voting should be used when there is a need to agree on organizational issues. If you vote on every little detail, then it lessen the value of
a vote. Please see my comments below:
Find that very funny, at the most topics havent to be a discussion. 2 reasons most of them are discussed before without a practicable solution. And all of them are the back of the horse, and its better to begin on front ;)
Why that can happen is really simple, there is a new person to the project and get a task like this. Ok, he stepped forward as there was the question for an volunteer.
Can it be that I invest since a long time working on improve the ambassador program? Can it be suseROCKs and AJaeger know that?
So in Germany its simple, when u give another person a task where is another working on, then u are not happy with his work.
So I ask here now suseROCKs and AJaeger u are unhappy with my work? If not, then explain me why that ambassador meeting was called this way!
So I can't speak for both of them, but I did already say something about this on IRC. First of all, I doubt they are unhappy with your work - both have said to me in private several times that you are doing a great job. So that is not the point.
that question was for them ;)
Jos seems to be able quite well in reading my mind. We need to put work on more shoulders...
I think things in the FOSS world simply work different from germany - if a job is assigned, it still doesn't mean if someone else comes up and offers to help, he /she can't go ahead and do it. As long as it is communicated (so no work is done twice) there shouldn't be a problem - if you think it wasn't done well enough, you can comment, help out, improve it. It's all open and public, after all.
there is no problem to work together on such a thing on the contrary
As I said on IRC, we should be happy if someone takes up a job we were supposed to do: it means you can do something else, and there is plenty of work.
Now I know some jobs are simply nice to do, as they are either fun or have some status attached to them. Such things can be a bit more sensitive. Now I don't know to what extend this was discussed, however, I would call on everyone to think about that: if someone is supposed to do something, be careful with taking it over. Discuss it with that person first: make clear it is NOT because he/she doesn't do a good job, but because you have time and are interested in doing it.
In this case, it would've been nice if Carlos, who wanted to do this, contacted gnokki and asked him if he's ok with it.
So for me are more importent things in ambassador program to bring all ambassadors to have her user page in wiki again and have an functional mail address. And after that to become from all ambassadors work reports
Now here is another thing: you have different goals and priorities than others. That is *always* the case, we're all different after all. It doesn't mean we don't share your goals, but others might just have different priorities.
so see if Carlos had setup a schedule with what should ur priorities to improve the program. There would be no problem ;) on the contrary
You can't expect that everybody does everything perfect the first time ;) I applaud him for what he did - and yes, we need to work on priorities.
I think we must acknowledge that we have different ideas on what is important. We can discuss it, but don't expect everyone to agree. The only thing you can really do is work on what YOU think is important...
btw: Carlos Ribeiro where is urs from launch party?
and after that or better I say for let this happen we have to find a way to publish them in a good way
thats more importent as to have "uniforms" and the other stuff is discussed.
When it comes to the specific things which were discussed by Carlos, it is perfectly OK to say that you disagree with some things, as long as you do it politely. Understand, again, we're all different. Especially considering Carlos is from the other side of this planet - we have a cultural barrier there, too, and you must be consious of that. So disagreement - OK, being mean: NOT ACCEPTABLE.
First I have definitly no barrier between me and another culture
u writing about cultural differences thats like differnces between fedora and ubuntu always looking to fedora ooh they have nice blue shirts we must have that too.
Why always copying other without a inquiry are we equal at this point? Its not easier at this time to take that black shirt with the green geeko?
The mailing list discussion has shown that uniforms are desired but I've also heard that this is not the top priority yet.
Andreas
Am Mittwoch, den 11.08.2010, 15:45 +0200 schrieb Andreas Jaeger:
On Wednesday 11 August 2010 15:02:26 S.Kemter wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 11.08.2010, 13:40 +0200 schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
On Tuesday 10 August 2010 22:24:02 S.Kemter wrote:
Hello,
so its now time to respond to that,
First of all, I'm very glad to see so many people enthusiastic to discuss ambassador stuff, and I want to thank Carlos for leading the meeting this past week. I've kept quiet to let you all speak up and enjoy the ability to offer your inputs.
One thing I want to say, please don't double-post to marketing and ambassdor mailing lists. If it is about ambassadors, keep it on the ambassador list. The marketing list is for general openSUSE marketing topics.
point here as I requested the ambassador list it wasnt to have a place for discussions about ambassadors, it was to reduce my work what I always have to keep my list with ambassador mail addresses up to date!
So the ambassadors list should not a place for discussions. Its created to speak to the ambassadors easy nothing more!
Ok, I think here we simply have a little difference of how ppl understood this mailinglist.
And I think both the 'we need a list to communicate towards the ambasadors' and 'we need a list where ambasadors can discuss things' are valid needs.
Jos plz ask u self what have they to discuss? Its not better to make 10 new list so that, the ambassadors of north and south america, of africa, europe and os on haver her own?
Can discussions not made on marketing list or better in IRC? I think there are mostly 5 for some regions not more. Even in india, ok there stand arround 30 on the list but how many are active?
The question of active ambassadors is another topic - I wrote all ambassadors that we remove those from the list that don't create one until end of August...
IRC discussions will not work -
why not?
and I see a team list as beneficial as some discussions already showed.
The question then is - should that be one, or two lists. I personally think having two lists is not very efficient, I guess you agree? If you do, I think we should just acknowledge we had a little misunderstanding here - which is typical for online communication. Nobody has to be blamed... Shit happens and we can move on.
If you think we should have two lists the ambasadors should sign up for, I'd love to hear your arguments so the team can discuss it.
I agree with Jos here.
There is too much voting here on things that do not require a vote. Voting should be used when there is a need to agree on organizational issues. If you vote on every little detail, then it lessen the value of
a vote. Please see my comments below:
Find that very funny, at the most topics havent to be a discussion. 2 reasons most of them are discussed before without a practicable solution. And all of them are the back of the horse, and its better to begin on front ;)
Why that can happen is really simple, there is a new person to the project and get a task like this. Ok, he stepped forward as there was the question for an volunteer.
Can it be that I invest since a long time working on improve the ambassador program? Can it be suseROCKs and AJaeger know that?
So in Germany its simple, when u give another person a task where is another working on, then u are not happy with his work.
So I ask here now suseROCKs and AJaeger u are unhappy with my work? If not, then explain me why that ambassador meeting was called this way!
So I can't speak for both of them, but I did already say something about this on IRC. First of all, I doubt they are unhappy with your work - both have said to me in private several times that you are doing a great job. So that is not the point.
that question was for them ;)
Jos seems to be able quite well in reading my mind. We need to put work on more shoulders...
just a other sentence for unhappy with my work
I think things in the FOSS world simply work different from germany - if a job is assigned, it still doesn't mean if someone else comes up and offers to help, he /she can't go ahead and do it. As long as it is communicated (so no work is done twice) there shouldn't be a problem - if you think it wasn't done well enough, you can comment, help out, improve it. It's all open and public, after all.
there is no problem to work together on such a thing on the contrary
As I said on IRC, we should be happy if someone takes up a job we were supposed to do: it means you can do something else, and there is plenty of work.
Now I know some jobs are simply nice to do, as they are either fun or have some status attached to them. Such things can be a bit more sensitive. Now I don't know to what extend this was discussed, however, I would call on everyone to think about that: if someone is supposed to do something, be careful with taking it over. Discuss it with that person first: make clear it is NOT because he/she doesn't do a good job, but because you have time and are interested in doing it.
In this case, it would've been nice if Carlos, who wanted to do this, contacted gnokki and asked him if he's ok with it.
So for me are more importent things in ambassador program to bring all ambassadors to have her user page in wiki again and have an functional mail address. And after that to become from all ambassadors work reports
Now here is another thing: you have different goals and priorities than others. That is *always* the case, we're all different after all. It doesn't mean we don't share your goals, but others might just have different priorities.
so see if Carlos had setup a schedule with what should ur priorities to improve the program. There would be no problem ;) on the contrary
You can't expect that everybody does everything perfect the first time ;) I applaud him for what he did - and yes, we need to work on priorities.
funny I never requested that he have to be perfect. But from others they call them self "leader" I can expect it
I think we must acknowledge that we have different ideas on what is important. We can discuss it, but don't expect everyone to agree. The only thing you can really do is work on what YOU think is important...
btw: Carlos Ribeiro where is urs from launch party?
and after that or better I say for let this happen we have to find a way to publish them in a good way
thats more importent as to have "uniforms" and the other stuff is discussed.
When it comes to the specific things which were discussed by Carlos, it is perfectly OK to say that you disagree with some things, as long as you do it politely. Understand, again, we're all different. Especially considering Carlos is from the other side of this planet - we have a cultural barrier there, too, and you must be consious of that. So disagreement - OK, being mean: NOT ACCEPTABLE.
First I have definitly no barrier between me and another culture
u writing about cultural differences thats like differnces between fedora and ubuntu always looking to fedora ooh they have nice blue shirts we must have that too.
Why always copying other without a inquiry are we equal at this point? Its not easier at this time to take that black shirt with the green geeko?
The mailing list discussion has shown that uniforms are desired but I've also heard that this is not the top priority yet.
br gnokii
Andreas
On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 16:29 +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
funny I never requested that he have to be perfect. But from others they call them self "leader" I can expect it
gnokii,
Can I make a personal recommendation to you? Read this master piece:
Der Fürst von Nicollo Machiavelli.
It's available on Amazon [dot] de.
:)
all the best mate, nelson
Am Mittwoch, den 11.08.2010, 19:12 +0100 schrieb Nelson Marques:
On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 16:29 +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
funny I never requested that he have to be perfect. But from others they call them self "leader" I can expect it
gnokii,
Can I make a personal recommendation to you? Read this master piece:
Der Fürst von Nicollo Machiavelli.
It's available on Amazon [dot] de.
Il principe is one of the standard works u have to read at german officer school, even sun tzu ;
br gnokii
:)
all the best mate, nelson
On Wednesday 11 August 2010 16:29:56 S.Kemter wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 11.08.2010, 15:45 +0200 schrieb Andreas Jaeger:
On Wednesday 11 August 2010 15:02:26 S.Kemter wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 11.08.2010, 13:40 +0200 schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
On Tuesday 10 August 2010 22:24:02 S.Kemter wrote:
[...]
IRC discussions will not work -
why not?
With the time zones we're all in, IRC meetings will not work as the discussion has shown. We have to use both mailing lists and IRC meetings as appropriate.
[...]
Jos seems to be able quite well in reading my mind. We need to put work on more shoulders...
just a other sentence for unhappy with my work
Gnokii, you know that you did great work in some areas. But we need many more people that go out and do similar great work. Neither of us scales on his own. I'm not unhappy with the work you do - but I'm unhappy with the way you communicate. Please do learn to motivate people in a friendly way!
Andreas
-
Andreas Jaeger -
Bryen M. Yunashko -
Carlos Ribeiro -
Decks -
Jimmy PIERRE -
Jos Poortvliet -
Manu Gupta -
Nelson Marques -
Ricardo Chung -
S.Kemter