[opensuse-marketing] feedback on news
Hi all, A while ago there was a blog by Nelson on LibreOffice. I had a quick look and thought 'Ok so you don't get the dynamics of Free Software huh'* but didn't think about it otherwise. Then the blog was selected as one of the articles in the Weekly News, put together by the hard work of Sascha and his team. Which tickled of some rough feathers at the LibreOffice camp - as you can imagine after reading the blog. There was a link to an article putting down the LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) - in an 'official' openSUSE news article! So, I don't really want to discuss the blogpost itself - it's the personal vision of Nelson and I get the point he was trying to get across). Even if his critisism was completely founded and sensible, the question I have is: should it have been in the Weekly news? That is actually something Nelson can surely comment upon: does it make sense, from a marketing perspective, to put your 'dirty laundry' (internal discussions and critisism) out to the world if you don't have too? Frankly, I have had this discussion in KDE as well - some argued that even on Planet KDE, critisism did not belong. Planet, as they saw it, was a communicationchannel OUTWARDS. If you had critique, say it on a mailinglist or in private, use planet for positive comments. I disagreed with that - imho planet is for community discussion and personal views, hence should be open for critisism. But for something like the weekly news, I think it might make sense for the team doing it to think about what their purpose is - yes, informing the community. But those part of it or very close most likely do follow the planet. The weekly news is most likely read by users further away from the project and journalists and such - who don't have to be bothered by infighting or bad news ;-) Yes, I am saying the Weekly News is a great marketing asset - and hence should be treated as such. Comments? As usual, feel free to disagree and fall all over me now - but please end it with a hug :D Jos * so the blog was about the marketing side of the fork. Sure. Still, it was a bit clueless - indeed, from a marketing point it's not smart to create two projects - from the Free Software dynamics pov it's the best thing that has happened to OpenOffice in years and it should've happened years ago... Marketing is clearly secondairy here. And yes, I imagine it would be fun to see the marketing battle. From a FOSS perspective - I just hope it won't take LibreOffice long to win. Link to the blog in question: http://nmarques.digitalwhores.net/2010/10/18/openoffice-org-and-libre-office...
Jos, I've shared that because that's my own concerns. In a way what I mean is, Libre Office is going to have a very tough job ahead. oo.o has a strong brand and has made some quite amazing work. While for people more close to free software, this issue has a very own meaning, for all the audience outside the free software, and open office was present, for example, when I bought my ticket to the openSUSE Conference, the agent was actually running open office 1.1!. I'm pretty that old lady wasn't aware of our cultural movement. My concerns on marketing are mainly around those people, because people connected to free software, aren't exactly lacking the information the others are. I hold nothing against either sun or libre office. I did used Libre Office for my presentation. For me it's quite transparent. But for example from school I get loads of microsoft documents, even my own teachers push them to me... I require good compatibility because I'm not preaching the word to my teachers... Those are problems to everyone outside. I didn't meant to be attack, but for me as a marketeer (or future one), those kind of issues are things that are interesting... of course I do like to follow them, there's always something to learn. For where it's published, I do not know. It's probably as hard for you to understand some of my perspectives as it's hard for me to understand those that are more friendly to you, because in way, we have different prisms to look for. nelson. On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 00:37 +0200, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
A while ago there was a blog by Nelson on LibreOffice. I had a quick look and thought 'Ok so you don't get the dynamics of Free Software huh'* but didn't think about it otherwise.
Then the blog was selected as one of the articles in the Weekly News, put together by the hard work of Sascha and his team. Which tickled of some rough feathers at the LibreOffice camp - as you can imagine after reading the blog. There was a link to an article putting down the LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) - in an 'official' openSUSE news article!
So, I don't really want to discuss the blogpost itself - it's the personal vision of Nelson and I get the point he was trying to get across).
Even if his critisism was completely founded and sensible, the question I have is: should it have been in the Weekly news? That is actually something Nelson can surely comment upon: does it make sense, from a marketing perspective, to put your 'dirty laundry' (internal discussions and critisism) out to the world if you don't have too?
Frankly, I have had this discussion in KDE as well - some argued that even on Planet KDE, critisism did not belong. Planet, as they saw it, was a communicationchannel OUTWARDS. If you had critique, say it on a mailinglist or in private, use planet for positive comments. I disagreed with that - imho planet is for community discussion and personal views, hence should be open for critisism.
But for something like the weekly news, I think it might make sense for the team doing it to think about what their purpose is - yes, informing the community. But those part of it or very close most likely do follow the planet. The weekly news is most likely read by users further away from the project and journalists and such - who don't have to be bothered by infighting or bad news ;-)
Yes, I am saying the Weekly News is a great marketing asset - and hence should be treated as such.
Comments? As usual, feel free to disagree and fall all over me now - but please end it with a hug :D
Jos
* so the blog was about the marketing side of the fork. Sure. Still, it was a bit clueless - indeed, from a marketing point it's not smart to create two projects - from the Free Software dynamics pov it's the best thing that has happened to OpenOffice in years and it should've happened years ago... Marketing is clearly secondairy here. And yes, I imagine it would be fun to see the marketing battle. From a FOSS perspective - I just hope it won't take LibreOffice long to win.
Link to the blog in question: http://nmarques.digitalwhores.net/2010/10/18/openoffice-org-and-libre-office...
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 28 Oct 2010 14:02:54 Nelson Marques wrote:
Jos,
I've shared that because that's my own concerns. In a way what I mean is, Libre Office is going to have a very tough job ahead. oo.o has a strong brand and has made some quite amazing work. While for people more close to free software, this issue has a very own meaning, for all the audience outside the free software, and open office was present, for example, when I bought my ticket to the openSUSE Conference, the agent was actually running open office 1.1!. I'm pretty that old lady wasn't aware of our cultural movement. My concerns on marketing are mainly around those people, because people connected to free software, aren't exactly lacking the information the others are.
I hold nothing against either sun or libre office. I did used Libre Office for my presentation. For me it's quite transparent. But for example from school I get loads of microsoft documents, even my own teachers push them to me... I require good compatibility because I'm not preaching the word to my teachers... Those are problems to everyone outside. I didn't meant to be attack, but for me as a marketeer (or future one), those kind of issues are things that are interesting... of course I do like to follow them, there's always something to learn.
For where it's published, I do not know. It's probably as hard for you to understand some of my perspectives as it's hard for me to understand those that are more friendly to you, because in way, we have different prisms to look for.
nelson.
Firstly I saw no real criticism, I thought Nelson's blog summed up the situation from Marketing perspective quite well, everything he pointed out we are quite aware of. However let's be clear on a couple of things, OpenSUSE has never used SUN's OOo, it uses the Novell sponsored Go-oo.org version. LibreOffice is the Oracle source with Go-ooo code that was not upstreamed to the vanilla version because of the SCA. Mike Meeks of go-ooo fame is one of the founders which is probably as much the reason for the shift in SLE and openSUSE as anything else. The creation of libreoffice is purely about the foundation, to put the code under an independent entity so that no single Corporate has control. This has been a goal of the project since day one back in 2000. There is hope that Oracle will join and gift the trademarks to the foundation (right now this looks unlikely, but is still a possibility) The Foundation's creation at this time was precipitated by fear in the community with regard to Oracle's intentions especially after the killing of OpenSolaris and that was the major driver for the broader community, the corporate partners were probably more attracted to the dropping of the Copyright assignment. Right now infrastructure is the important thing, that is being setup as we speak. Translations are being done and the first release will probably coincide with the release of OOo 3.3. The marketing project has a full head of steam and we are working on the branding right now. We don't consider this a fork any more than go-ooo is considered a fork, there will still be code sharing, so this is just an alternative version of OOo we live in interesting times cheers GL
On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 00:37 +0200, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
A while ago there was a blog by Nelson on LibreOffice. I had a quick look and thought 'Ok so you don't get the dynamics of Free Software huh'* but didn't think about it otherwise.
Then the blog was selected as one of the articles in the Weekly News, put together by the hard work of Sascha and his team. Which tickled of some rough feathers at the LibreOffice camp - as you can imagine after reading the blog. There was a link to an article putting down the LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) - in an 'official' openSUSE news article!
So, I don't really want to discuss the blogpost itself - it's the personal vision of Nelson and I get the point he was trying to get across).
Even if his critisism was completely founded and sensible, the question I have is: should it have been in the Weekly news? That is actually something Nelson can surely comment upon: does it make sense, from a marketing perspective, to put your 'dirty laundry' (internal discussions and critisism) out to the world if you don't have too?
Frankly, I have had this discussion in KDE as well - some argued that even on Planet KDE, critisism did not belong. Planet, as they saw it, was a communicationchannel OUTWARDS. If you had critique, say it on a mailinglist or in private, use planet for positive comments. I disagreed with that - imho planet is for community discussion and personal views, hence should be open for critisism.
But for something like the weekly news, I think it might make sense for the team doing it to think about what their purpose is - yes, informing the community. But those part of it or very close most likely do follow the planet. The weekly news is most likely read by users further away from the project and journalists and such - who don't have to be bothered by infighting or bad news ;-)
Yes, I am saying the Weekly News is a great marketing asset - and hence should be treated as such.
Comments? As usual, feel free to disagree and fall all over me now - but please end it with a hug :D
Jos
* so the blog was about the marketing side of the fork. Sure. Still, it was a bit clueless - indeed, from a marketing point it's not smart to create two projects - from the Free Software dynamics pov it's the best thing that has happened to OpenOffice in years and it should've happened years ago... Marketing is clearly secondairy here. And yes, I imagine it would be fun to see the marketing battle. From a FOSS perspective - I just hope it won't take LibreOffice long to win.
Link to the blog in question: http://nmarques.digitalwhores.net/2010/10/18/openoffice-org-and-libre-off ice/
-- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant. INGOTs Assessor Trainer (International Grades in Open Technologies) www.theingots.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Graham, We shared different opinions in the past, but I think we speak the same language in this case. I've noticed a "OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant." on your signature, so eventually I assume that you know that for most people openoffice isn't really about code or project management, but about other issue, the tool provided I wrote it probably in a very raw and superficial way. I don't knwo the structure of the openoffice community neither their inner problems. I honestly don't care, but I do care about the success of a free office suit that can provide good contents. OpenOffice did it, at least for Portuguese the Dictionary and Thesaurus (which were community contributions) were far superior than any comercial product I know out there. This part of the community, probably agnostic to code, is loosing with such fork. That's the concerning part, alongside with an image that took a long time to build. I'm sure Libre and Open Office have already a batallion of people far smarter than I do to sort this things out. I hope so. Trully do. How's your time Graham? You are native english speaker, which is nice, and since your field is marketing as well, would be interested in working a marketing article along with me on the subject and submit it to the "Journal of Marketing"? It's a long shot to get it approved, but we could try :) nelson On Fri, 2010-10-29 at 01:46 +1300, Graham Lauder wrote:
Firstly I saw no real criticism, I thought Nelson's blog summed up the situation from Marketing perspective quite well, everything he poisnted out we are quite aware of.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 29 Oct 2010 12:20:56 you wrote: H i Nelson
Graham,
We shared different opinions in the past, but I think we speak the same language in this case.
If we agreed all the time it would be a boring world indeed. :) Varying opinions are a given in OSS projects, I suspect that we simply have different backgrounds in Marketing and that tends to colour our views. When I first got into marketing there was no such thing as MBAs and the like and one learnt the craft at the coalface. I founded my first company in 1975 and was thrown in at the deep end as it were and frankly it wasn't until the third one that I started to get it right.:)
I've noticed a "OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant." on your signature, so eventually I assume that you know that for most people openoffice isn't really about code or project management, but about other issue, the tool provided
Indeed, it's a concept I often have to drum into client Project Managers, it's not about software it's about people, people just want to do their job
I wrote it probably in a very raw and superficial way. I don't knwo the structure of the openoffice community neither their inner problems. I honestly don't care, but I do care about the success of a free office suit that can provide good contents.
It's a huge community, all the others, including the distributions, are dwarfed by comparison. There are 32,000 people subscribing to the mail lists at last count, around 1000 signatories to the JCA (joint copyright assignment that gives you access to the CVS. Corporate Contributors sometimes have one each, so the Novell guys may have 50 devs working on it [it should be noted that some are philosophically opposed to the JCA and so their contributions just go to go- ooo], consequently the actual number is bigger although volatile, depending on the policies of the particular corporate) Over a hundred Native language projects, each with it's own QA, Marketing and L10n teams. The level two projects also have their own web team. There are already multiple versions (Lotus Symphony, Oxygen Office, RedOffice, Go- oo.org, EuroOffice, OOo4kids and now LibO.) So this is not a new thing. The new thing is The Document Foundation and the fact that it is driven by people at the top of the OOo community tree. Having said all this, most considered that Oracle would join and so everything would stay the same except for ownership of the copyright. Hasn't work out that way yet, we are still communicating, maybe in the future.
OpenOffice did it, at least for Portuguese the Dictionary and Thesaurus (which were community contributions) were far superior than any comercial product I know out there. This part of the community, probably agnostic to code, is loosing with such fork. That's the concerning part, alongside with an image that took a long time to build.
True, fortunately the people that have crossed to LibO are well aware. The Broffice team from Brazil who are the major contributors to the Portugese translations have joined with libO and the Lead of the NLC (Native Language Confederation), Charles Schultz is one of the founders/ Steering Committee as is Florian Effenberger, ex OOo Marketing project lead and so on. The reason there was such an uproar was because these guys and others of the TDF founders were members of OOo's management body, the Community Council. However there are still a lot of us that support both, we don't see competition right now, that may change in the future. I still retain my appointment as Marketing Contact for New Zealand, OOo is still my primary focus but I will recommend other versions to clients if they are a better fit to the environment they are going to.
I'm sure Libre and Open Office have already a batallion of people far smarter than I do to sort this things out. I hope so. Trully do.
Feel free to come on board, it's fascinating right now, branding and marketing from the ground up. What we do now will affect the project for years to come.
How's your time Graham? You are native english speaker, which is nice, and since your field is marketing as well, would be interested in working a marketing article along with me on the subject and submit it to the "Journal of Marketing"? It's a long shot to get it approved, but we could try :)
Most definitely, I have often thought of doing something and I'm at a bit of a loose end right now since I broke my hand, just that I'm forced to type really slowly Cheers GL
nelson
On Fri, 2010-10-29 at 01:46 +1300, Graham Lauder wrote:
Firstly I saw no real criticism, I thought Nelson's blog summed up the situation from Marketing perspective quite well, everything he poisnted out we are quite aware of.
-- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant. INGOTs Assessor Trainer (International Grades in Open Technologies) www.theingots.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Is this the GNU/Linux vs. Linux useless argument thread, or the vi vs.
emacs useless argument thread? I got lost about a dozen posts (~100
paragraphs) back...
:P
- James Mason 'bear454'
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Graham Lauder
On Friday 29 Oct 2010 12:20:56 you wrote:
H i Nelson
Graham,
We shared different opinions in the past, but I think we speak the same language in this case.
If we agreed all the time it would be a boring world indeed. :) Varying opinions are a given in OSS projects, I suspect that we simply have different backgrounds in Marketing and that tends to colour our views. When I first got into marketing there was no such thing as MBAs and the like and one learnt the craft at the coalface. I founded my first company in 1975 and was thrown in at the deep end as it were and frankly it wasn't until the third one that I started to get it right.:)
I've noticed a "OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant." on your signature, so eventually I assume that you know that for most people openoffice isn't really about code or project management, but about other issue, the tool provided
Indeed, it's a concept I often have to drum into client Project Managers, it's not about software it's about people, people just want to do their job
I wrote it probably in a very raw and superficial way. I don't knwo the structure of the openoffice community neither their inner problems. I honestly don't care, but I do care about the success of a free office suit that can provide good contents.
It's a huge community, all the others, including the distributions, are dwarfed by comparison.
There are 32,000 people subscribing to the mail lists at last count, around 1000 signatories to the JCA (joint copyright assignment that gives you access to the CVS. Corporate Contributors sometimes have one each, so the Novell guys may have 50 devs working on it [it should be noted that some are philosophically opposed to the JCA and so their contributions just go to go- ooo], consequently the actual number is bigger although volatile, depending on the policies of the particular corporate)
Over a hundred Native language projects, each with it's own QA, Marketing and L10n teams. The level two projects also have their own web team. There are already multiple versions (Lotus Symphony, Oxygen Office, RedOffice, Go- oo.org, EuroOffice, OOo4kids and now LibO.) So this is not a new thing. The new thing is The Document Foundation and the fact that it is driven by people at the top of the OOo community tree. Having said all this, most considered that Oracle would join and so everything would stay the same except for ownership of the copyright. Hasn't work out that way yet, we are still communicating, maybe in the future.
OpenOffice did it, at least for Portuguese the Dictionary and Thesaurus (which were community contributions) were far superior than any comercial product I know out there. This part of the community, probably agnostic to code, is loosing with such fork. That's the concerning part, alongside with an image that took a long time to build.
True, fortunately the people that have crossed to LibO are well aware. The Broffice team from Brazil who are the major contributors to the Portugese translations have joined with libO and the Lead of the NLC (Native Language Confederation), Charles Schultz is one of the founders/ Steering Committee as is Florian Effenberger, ex OOo Marketing project lead and so on. The reason there was such an uproar was because these guys and others of the TDF founders were members of OOo's management body, the Community Council.
However there are still a lot of us that support both, we don't see competition right now, that may change in the future. I still retain my appointment as Marketing Contact for New Zealand, OOo is still my primary focus but I will recommend other versions to clients if they are a better fit to the environment they are going to.
I'm sure Libre and Open Office have already a batallion of people far smarter than I do to sort this things out. I hope so. Trully do.
Feel free to come on board, it's fascinating right now, branding and marketing from the ground up. What we do now will affect the project for years to come.
How's your time Graham? You are native english speaker, which is nice, and since your field is marketing as well, would be interested in working a marketing article along with me on the subject and submit it to the "Journal of Marketing"? It's a long shot to get it approved, but we could try :)
Most definitely, I have often thought of doing something and I'm at a bit of a loose end right now since I broke my hand, just that I'm forced to type really slowly
Cheers GL
nelson
On Fri, 2010-10-29 at 01:46 +1300, Graham Lauder wrote:
Firstly I saw no real criticism, I thought Nelson's blog summed up the situation from Marketing perspective quite well, everything he poisnted out we are quite aware of.
-- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html
OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.
INGOTs Assessor Trainer (International Grades in Open Technologies) www.theingots.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Hi Jos, first of all, I appreciate your feedback on *OUR* Weekly News. What we really have to fear is neither proprietary software nor competitor, but a lack of interest. ;-) (2010/10/28 7:37), Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
A while ago there was a blog by Nelson on LibreOffice. I had a quick look and thought 'Ok so you don't get the dynamics of Free Software huh'* but didn't think about it otherwise.
Then the blog was selected as one of the articles in the Weekly News, put together by the hard work of Sascha and his team. Which tickled of some rough feathers at the LibreOffice camp - as you can imagine after reading the blog. There was a link to an article putting down the LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) - in an 'official' openSUSE news article!
So, I don't really want to discuss the blogpost itself - it's the personal vision of Nelson and I get the point he was trying to get across).
Even if his critisism was completely founded and sensible, the question I have is: should it have been in the Weekly news? That is actually something Nelson can surely comment upon: does it make sense, from a marketing perspective, to put your 'dirty laundry' (internal discussions and critisism) out to the world if you don't have too?
Frankly, I have had this discussion in KDE as well - some argued that even on Planet KDE, critisism did not belong. Planet, as they saw it, was a communicationchannel OUTWARDS. If you had critique, say it on a mailinglist or in private, use planet for positive comments. I disagreed with that - imho planet is for community discussion and personal views, hence should be open for critisism.
But for something like the weekly news, I think it might make sense for the team doing it to think about what their purpose is - yes, informing the community. But those part of it or very close most likely do follow the planet. The weekly news is most likely read by users further away from the project and journalists and such - who don't have to be bothered by infighting or bad news ;-)
Yes, I am saying the Weekly News is a great marketing asset - and hence should be treated as such.
Comments? As usual, feel free to disagree and fall all over me now - but please end it with a hug :D
From one of the editors point of view, it is not so easy to determine whether an article is appropriate for our Weekly News or not. In other words, whether an article is just a neutral report on what's going on or authors opinion isn't sometimes quite clear. And, the borderline between constructive opinions and offensive criticisms is often vague. In our 'Guiding Principles', http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles there's a mention: "We value... [...] ... respect for other persons and their contributions, for other opinions and beliefs. (...)" Everyone has his/her own opinion. When there's a topic, there always are various opinions and thoughts on that - pros and cons, positive and negative. If a opinion is constructive from one's point of view, it might be ridiculous from others' point of view. And according to our 'Kick Ass!' rule, everyone can add articles which (s)he find worthy enough to introduce to Weekly News during editing phase. So the question is, who can judge whether each entry is good for our Weekly News or not, and how? Should we reject all the articles which include authors criticism no matter how that is constructive or negative? The solution might be having an 'editorial meeting' for each issue. But I'm sorry to inform you the current state of Weekly News team. :-( ATM, most of the articles on Weekly News except 'openSUSE Forums' and 'Events' (thanks, Carl and Okuro!) are selected by Sascha and me. And yes, we pick up many articles which are aggregated on Planet openSUSE. Usually, we have a 'proofreading session' for each issue after the draft edition is completed. The more proofreaders we have, the more polished Weekly News will be - but right now, we have only one proofreader (me). And let me explain the situation of Issue 146. Since Sascha attended openSUSE Conference and didn't have enough time to edit, most of the articles on Issue 146 are selected by me and we couldn't have a proofreading session for that. However, even if we could have a proofreading session, whether the Nelson's blog post is appropriate for our Weekly News or not is another question. We - mostly Sascha and me - have tried to have team meetings to improve Weekly News again and again. But on most of the meetings, there usually were only Sascha and me... :-( Again: 'What we really have to fear is a lack of interest.' The more you'll participate and help editing Weekly News, the better the Weekly News will be.
* so the blog was about the marketing side of the fork. Sure. Still, it was a bit clueless - indeed, from a marketing point it's not smart to create two projects - from the Free Software dynamics pov it's the best thing that has happened to OpenOffice in years and it should've happened years ago... Marketing is clearly secondairy here. And yes, I imagine it would be fun to see the marketing battle. From a FOSS perspective - I just hope it won't take LibreOffice long to win.
Link to the blog in question: http://nmarques.digitalwhores.net/2010/10/18/openoffice-org-and-libre-office...
I have another doubt on 'OpenOffice.org vs LibreOffice' issue in openSUSE project. I myself have heard many times from one of the developers of Go-OO about the negative effect of bureaucratism OpenOffice.org project has. Therefore I want to support The Document Foundation and won't oppose to adopt LibreOffice as a default office suite for openSUSE distribution instead of Oracle's OOo - I'm already using LibreOffice now ;-). However, when and who decided that openSUSE will adopt LibreOffice instead of Oracle's OOo? Is this issue openly discussed somewhere and I missed it? On 15. October, Petr Mladek announced 'We are going to switch from the OpenOffice.org to the LibreOffice code base on openSUSE.' http://lizards.opensuse.org/2010/10/15/libreoffice-3_2_99_2/ Although the feature request '#310686: Include LibreOffice Productivity Suite' was posted to openFATE on 8 October, https://features.opensuse.org/310686 I don't think there have been enough discussions on this feature. Jos wrote:
(...) the LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) (...)
but as you can read the comment on Petr's announcement, there certainly are contributors of original OOo in openSUSE community! As I mentioned above, I myself want to support TDF and LibreOffice, but as one of the editors of Weekly News, I want to be as neutral as possible. ;-) Best, -- _/_/ Satoru Matsumoto - openSUSE Member - Japan _/_/ _/_/ Marketing/Weekly News/openFATE Screening Team _/_/ _/_/ mail: helios_reds_at_gmx.net / irc: HeliosReds _/_/ _/_/ http://blog.zaq.ne.jp/opensuse/ _/_/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
(...) the LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) (...)
but is "libreoffice" more part of opensuse than any other OBS application? If so where was this discussed? an other fork seems for me a very bad news when done before any public criticism of he original project (on our support - why should I have to read openoffice lists?) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-10-28 jdd wrote:
(...) the LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) (...)
but is "libreoffice" more part of opensuse than any other OBS application? If so where was this discussed?
Good question. I think to some extend yes, as quite a few well-known upstream people from LibreOffice are active in openSUSE or at least were at our last conference, use openSUSE and like the color Green :D
an other fork seems for me a very bad news when done before any public criticism of he original project (on our support - why should I have to read openoffice lists?)
The bad situation in OpenOffice was widely known for years - surely not specifically in openSUSE but on say LWN.net, osnews.com, etc etc etc.
jdd
On 2010-10-28 Satoru wrote:
Hi Jos,
first of all, I appreciate your feedback on *OUR* Weekly News. What we really have to fear is neither proprietary software nor competitor, but a lack of interest. ;-)
Agreed ;-)
(2010/10/28 7:37), Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,
A while ago there was a blog by Nelson on LibreOffice. I had a quick look and thought 'Ok so you don't get the dynamics of Free Software huh'* but didn't think about it otherwise.
Then the blog was selected as one of the articles in the Weekly News, put together by the hard work of Sascha and his team. Which tickled of some rough feathers at the LibreOffice camp - as you can imagine after reading the blog. There was a link to an article putting down the LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) - in an 'official' openSUSE news article!
So, I don't really want to discuss the blogpost itself - it's the personal vision of Nelson and I get the point he was trying to get across).
Even if his critisism was completely founded and sensible, the question I have is: should it have been in the Weekly news? That is actually something Nelson can surely comment upon: does it make sense, from a marketing perspective, to put your 'dirty laundry' (internal discussions and critisism) out to the world if you don't have too?
Frankly, I have had this discussion in KDE as well - some argued that even on Planet KDE, critisism did not belong. Planet, as they saw it, was a communicationchannel OUTWARDS. If you had critique, say it on a mailinglist or in private, use planet for positive comments. I disagreed with that - imho planet is for community discussion and personal views, hence should be open for critisism.
But for something like the weekly news, I think it might make sense for the team doing it to think about what their purpose is - yes, informing the community. But those part of it or very close most likely do follow the planet. The weekly news is most likely read by users further away from the project and journalists and such - who don't have to be bothered by infighting or bad news ;-)
Yes, I am saying the Weekly News is a great marketing asset - and hence should be treated as such.
Comments? As usual, feel free to disagree and fall all over me now - but please end it with a hug :D
From one of the editors point of view, it is not so easy to determine whether an article is appropriate for our Weekly News or not. In other words, whether an article is just a neutral report on what's going on or authors opinion isn't sometimes quite clear. And, the borderline between constructive opinions and offensive criticisms is often vague.
Oh absolutely. That is also why I send this mail - to try and let us figure out those lines a bit more clearly. It will never be completely clear - but having a goal in mind (like informing community members what is going on in openSUSE; or marketing openSUSE to users and visitors to the site) can help in the decision making. Please note that what I am trying to say is not that you guys made a wrong choice. It simply depends on what you think the Weekly news is for, what the goal is. And as you guys are making it, that is very much your decision. If you want to inform the community about what is going on, then something like Nelson's blog might belong in there. If you want to be a marketing tool, then it doesn't. As I don't think that choice has been made you have done nothing wrong ;-)
In our 'Guiding Principles', http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles there's a mention:
"We value... [...] ... respect for other persons and their contributions, for other opinions and beliefs. (...)"
Everyone has his/her own opinion. When there's a topic, there always are various opinions and thoughts on that - pros and cons, positive and negative. If a opinion is constructive from one's point of view, it might be ridiculous from others' point of view. And according to our 'Kick Ass!' rule, everyone can add articles which (s)he find worthy enough to introduce to Weekly News during editing phase. So the question is, who can judge whether each entry is good for our Weekly News or not, and how? Should we reject all the articles which include authors criticism no matter how that is constructive or negative?
Yep. So if we want to inform our community critisism belongs in there...
The solution might be having an 'editorial meeting' for each issue. But I'm sorry to inform you the current state of Weekly News team. :-(
ATM, most of the articles on Weekly News except 'openSUSE Forums' and 'Events' (thanks, Carl and Okuro!) are selected by Sascha and me. And yes, we pick up many articles which are aggregated on Planet openSUSE. Usually, we have a 'proofreading session' for each issue after the draft edition is completed. The more proofreaders we have, the more polished Weekly News will be - but right now, we have only one proofreader (me).
And let me explain the situation of Issue 146.
Since Sascha attended openSUSE Conference and didn't have enough time to edit, most of the articles on Issue 146 are selected by me and we couldn't have a proofreading session for that. However, even if we could have a proofreading session, whether the Nelson's blog post is appropriate for our Weekly News or not is another question.
We - mostly Sascha and me - have tried to have team meetings to improve Weekly News again and again. But on most of the meetings, there usually were only Sascha and me... :-(
Again: 'What we really have to fear is a lack of interest.'
The more you'll participate and help editing Weekly News, the better the Weekly News will be.
You guys do this on sunday? I might have time to help out, yes. Another thing we can and probably should do is add a message on top of the weekly news like "we're looking for volunteers to help out', maybe do a special request every now and then. I have no idea how you guys are working but I bet it ain't that complicated, right? If it isn't then we should tell that to people - we might find a few crazy like us and willing to help :D
* so the blog was about the marketing side of the fork. Sure. Still, it was a bit clueless - indeed, from a marketing point it's not smart to create two projects - from the Free Software dynamics pov it's the best thing that has happened to OpenOffice in years and it should've happened years ago... Marketing is clearly secondairy here. And yes, I imagine it would be fun to see the marketing battle. From a FOSS perspective - I just hope it won't take LibreOffice long to win.
Link to the blog in question: http://nmarques.digitalwhores.net/2010/10/18/openoffice-org-and-libre-off ice/
I have another doubt on 'OpenOffice.org vs LibreOffice' issue in openSUSE project.
I myself have heard many times from one of the developers of Go-OO about the negative effect of bureaucratism OpenOffice.org project has. Therefore I want to support The Document Foundation and won't oppose to adopt LibreOffice as a default office suite for openSUSE distribution instead of Oracle's OOo - I'm already using LibreOffice now ;-).
However, when and who decided that openSUSE will adopt LibreOffice instead of Oracle's OOo? Is this issue openly discussed somewhere and I missed it?
On 15. October, Petr Mladek announced 'We are going to switch from the OpenOffice.org to the LibreOffice code base on openSUSE.' http://lizards.opensuse.org/2010/10/15/libreoffice-3_2_99_2/
Although the feature request '#310686: Include LibreOffice Productivity Suite' was posted to openFATE on 8 October, https://features.opensuse.org/310686 I don't think there have been enough discussions on this feature.
Well it is the choice of the people who maintain OpenOffice - if they want to swicht to LibreOffice, that's their thing. We can give our opion and such but I strongly believe in 'who does the work decides'. So unless they find it a hard choice and ask for input on -project I wouldn't comment on it. Which doesn't mean you can't - if you have a strong opinion on this and arguments for keeping OpenOffice instead of LibreOffice, well, go ahead and talk to them on the mailinglist they work on most (not sure there is one) or on -project (be sure to CC them so they don't miss it).
Jos wrote:
(...) the LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) (...)
but as you can read the comment on Petr's announcement, there certainly are contributors of original OOo in openSUSE community!
As I mentioned above, I myself want to support TDF and LibreOffice, but as one of the editors of Weekly News, I want to be as neutral as possible. ;-)
Best,
On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 21:43 +0200, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Please note that what I am trying to say is not that you guys made a wrong choice. It simply depends on what you think the Weekly news is for, what the goal is. And as you guys are making it, that is very much your decision. If you want to inform the community about what is going on, then something like Nelson's blog might belong in there. If you want to be a marketing tool, then it doesn't. As I don't think that choice has been made you have done nothing wrong ;-)
Jos, Please read that paragraph, the times necessary to understand if there's a flaw there. Be careful at some point you imply that if they don't follow a certain direction, they are not doing marketing work. Careful with such statements. In a way you imply that if they take seriously peoples criticism and portrait some more 'sensible' stuff, they might not be marketing. That's not I see it. It might not be good to our audience. My post wasn't meant about bashing down, was meant about highlighting the complicated path that {Libre,Open}Office have ahead. As a community and knowing how much is in stake (a lot, that's why many people saw it as negative, because they are ignoring those points, and that's bad for them), we support Libre Office as a community. I think that people are so obcessed with 'legalese' and code, that sometimes they forget that in the case of products like openoffice and LibreOffice their success is not tied only to us, within a linux distro, than also with the everyday consumer. They for sudre will not see the things with the fundamentalism that we do. People also fail to neglect, that one of the greatest strengths of the free office suits, for example openoffice.org is the vast number of contributions in non-code areas, for example thesaurus and dictionaries. I apologize, you will end up by splitting also that part of the community... and I wonder how many of you, coders, have actually contributed for a dictionary contents or thesaurus... or that is not important? That's one of your greatests strengths, you and also will be splitting those contributions. Upstream doesn't really work a lot for this kinda stuff. You are neglecting a lot. Sorry, I tried to open your eyes. Satoru, Sasha: Thanks for caring. I share the same view, that contributors will does matter. Congratulations for an awesome job. I will remove my feeds, because I'm not willing to fight useless fights. Thanks for seeing something 'special' on my article and maybe for understanding it's contents, which clearly many people failed to. You have my gratitude and my respect. My english is bad, but there is anything I can assist you with, I can spare 2 hours a week for it. Guys, please, lets end this :) It's a cultural thing. Nelson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 29 October 2010 01:14:47 Nelson Marques wrote:
On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 21:43 +0200, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Please note that what I am trying to say is not that you guys made a wrong choice. It simply depends on what you think the Weekly news is for, what the goal is. And as you guys are making it, that is very much your decision. If you want to inform the community about what is going on, then something like Nelson's blog might belong in there. If you want to be a marketing tool, then it doesn't. As I don't think that choice has been made you have done nothing wrong ;-)
Jos,
Please read that paragraph, the times necessary to understand if there's a flaw there. Be careful at some point you imply that if they don't follow a certain direction, they are not doing marketing work. Careful with such statements.
In a way you imply that if they take seriously peoples criticism and portrait some more 'sensible' stuff, they might not be marketing. That's not I see it. It might not be good to our audience.
My post wasn't meant about bashing down, was meant about highlighting the complicated path that {Libre,Open}Office have ahead. As a community and knowing how much is in stake (a lot, that's why many people saw it as negative, because they are ignoring those points, and that's bad for them), we support Libre Office as a community.
I think that people are so obcessed with 'legalese' and code, that sometimes they forget that in the case of products like openoffice and LibreOffice their success is not tied only to us, within a linux distro, than also with the everyday consumer. They for sudre will not see the things with the fundamentalism that we do.
People also fail to neglect, that one of the greatest strengths of the free office suits, for example openoffice.org is the vast number of contributions in non-code areas, for example thesaurus and dictionaries. I apologize, you will end up by splitting also that part of the community... and I wonder how many of you, coders, have actually contributed for a dictionary contents or thesaurus... or that is not important? That's one of your greatests strengths, you and also will be splitting those contributions. Upstream doesn't really work a lot for this kinda stuff. You are neglecting a lot. Sorry, I tried to open your eyes.
Satoru, Sasha: Thanks for caring. I share the same view, that contributors will does matter. Congratulations for an awesome job. I will remove my feeds, because I'm not willing to fight useless fights. Thanks for seeing something 'special' on my article and maybe for understanding it's contents, which clearly many people failed to. You have my gratitude and my respect. My english is bad, but there is anything I can assist you with, I can spare 2 hours a week for it.
You assume I did not understand your point - but I do, really. Forking is, for the reasons you mention, a hugely risky business and many forks fail. However, sometimes there is no choice. A good historical example is Xfree86 -> X.org. The way Xfree86 was working was simply holding back the whole linux ecosystem. It still ain't perfect but much better than it was... I am very sure LibreOffice falls in the same categorie - the fork was long overdue because of the HUGE mismanagement on the OpenOffice side. Like with Xfree86, I expect most of the community to move over relatively smoothly and quickly and in a few years everyone will use LibreOffice. Forking is a neccesairy evil - which you rightly pointed out. As I said, in that regard your blog was perfectly valid. But on face value it seemed to put down the LibreOffice effort - if someone would not read the blog fully or not understand it, that would be the feeling they would get away with. From a 'internal discussion' point of view not a problem; from a marketing perspective quite horrible ;-)
Guys, please, lets end this :) It's a cultural thing.
Nelson
(2010/10/29 4:43), Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On 2010-10-28 Satoru wrote:
From one of the editors point of view, it is not so easy to determine whether an article is appropriate for our Weekly News or not. In other words, whether an article is just a neutral report on what's going on or authors opinion isn't sometimes quite clear. And, the borderline between constructive opinions and offensive criticisms is often vague.
Oh absolutely. That is also why I send this mail - to try and let us figure out those lines a bit more clearly. It will never be completely clear - but having a goal in mind (like informing community members what is going on in openSUSE; or marketing openSUSE to users and visitors to the site) can help in the decision making.
Please note that what I am trying to say is not that you guys made a wrong choice. It simply depends on what you think the Weekly news is for, what the goal is. And as you guys are making it, that is very much your decision. If you want to inform the community about what is going on, then something like Nelson's blog might belong in there. If you want to be a marketing tool, then it doesn't. As I don't think that choice has been made you have done nothing wrong ;-)
Yet another strategy discussion for Weekly News here. :-D Just as we have to define who are our customers when we discuss about strategies for marketing, we have to define who are the supposed readers when we edit Weekly News. ATM, our teams objective is: "The openSUSE Weekly News are the newsletter of and for the openSUSE community. The aim of the newsletter is to summarize everything that is happening in and around the openSUSE Community. (...)" http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Weekly_news Of course this can be revised if needed. But currently, I mainly focus on readers: - who are already involved in openSUSE project/community (including casual users) - who are interested in trends of openSUSE distribution, Linux and FLOSS And my selection criteria for articles are as follows: - whether the information in the article should be widely shared by readers or not - whether the article is interesting and/or useful for readers or not Those may be a little bit different from what Sascha and other team mates have in their mind in detail, but I believe they are much alike. If we focus much more on marketing element of Weekly News than ever, many things need to be drastically overhauled. How we can effectively use Weekly News as a marketing tool should be further discussed and I want to hear as many ideas as possible from marketing team guys. But in any case, what I am mostly concerned about is, whether Weekly News are interesting for readers and they can have fun with reading them or not. I will never be interested in creating a mere 'free paper for advertising of little interest to anyone'. ;-) Meanwhile, I am also a translator of Weekly News in addition to being an editor. In translators point of view, (translating) Weekly News has one more important role. As you know, recently an announcement titled 'Advance discontinuation notice for openSUSE 11.1' was posted to -announce list (and to several other lists). http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-announce/2010-10/msg00008.html I think it is a very important information which *every* openSUSE user should share. But unfortunately, such kind of announcements are usually posted only in English, that is, there are few chance for users who are not good at reading English to know the information if they are not translated by someone. I think translating Weekly News will be helpful for solving this problem, because Weekly News always include such kind of important announcements. Like this, Weekly News can have several roles. We can include a role as a marketing tool in roles of Weekly News, but IMHO, limiting the role to marketing (or advertising) is not a good idea (at least, neither interesting nor attractive for me). Best, -- _/_/ Satoru Matsumoto - openSUSE Member - Japan _/_/ _/_/ Marketing/Weekly News/openFATE Screening Team _/_/ _/_/ mail: helios_reds_at_gmx.net / irc: HeliosReds _/_/ _/_/ http://blog.zaq.ne.jp/opensuse/ _/_/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Due to my wrong operation, Jos has replyed directly to me. So I forward his email to the list. ;-) On Friday 29 October 2010 06:51:52 Satoru Matsumoto wrote:
(2010/10/29 4:43), Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On 2010-10-28 Satoru wrote:
From one of the editors point of view, it is not so easy to determinewhether an article is appropriate for our Weekly News or not. In otherwords, whether an article is just a neutral report onwhat's going on orauthors opinion isn't sometimes quite clear. And, the borderline betweenconstructive opinions and offensive criticisms is often vague.
Oh absolutely. That is also why I send this mail - to try and let us figure out those lines a bit more clearly. It will never be completelyclear - but having a goal in mind (like informing community members whatis going on in openSUSE; or marketing openSUSE to users and visitors tothe site) can help in the decision making.
Please note that what I am trying to say is not that you guys made a wrong choice. It simply depends on what you think the Weekly news is for, what the goal is. And as you guys are making it, that is very muchyour decision. If you want to inform the community about what is goingon, then something like Nelson's blog might belong in there. If you wantto be a marketing tool, then it doesn't. As I don't think that choice has been made you have done nothing wrong ;-)
Hey Satoru!
Yet another strategy discussion for Weekly News here. :-D
Just as we have to define who are our customers when we discuss about strategies for marketing, we have to define who are the supposed readers when we edit Weekly News.
Yup!
ATM, our teams objective is: "The openSUSE Weekly News are the newsletter of and for the openSUSE community. The aim of the newsletter is to summarize everything that is happening in and around the openSUSE Community. (...)" http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Weekly_news
Of course this can be revised if needed. But currently, I mainly focus on readers:
- who are already involved in openSUSE project/community (including casual users) - who are interested in trends of openSUSE distribution, Linux and FLOSS
And my selection criteria for articles are as follows:
- whether the information in the article should be widely shared by readers or not - whether the article is interesting and/or useful for readers or not
Those may be a little bit different from what Sascha and other team mates have in their mind in detail, but I believe they are much alike.
If we focus much more on marketing element of Weekly News than ever, many things need to be drastically overhauled. How we can effectively use Weekly News as a marketing tool should be further discussed and I want to hear as many ideas as possible from marketing team guys. But in any case, what I am mostly concerned about is, whether Weekly News are interesting for readers and they can have fun with reading them or not. I will never be interested in creating a mere 'free paper for advertising of little interest to anyone'. ;-)
Of course not! We are a Free Software community, more importantly, one of our tag-lines is "have fun". So it should always be fun to read and interesting for sure. It is all about balance, as you said before. As I come from the KDE's dot editor team I have had the same dilemma's - and I like the personal note and slightly informal and light tone in Free Software communication. So I don't think we should do any drastic things - if anything, a small move towards slightly more positive news would be more than enough. But only if you guys feel like changing anything at all - the current goals clearly state the weekly news is for contributors, thus not a marketing tool. I personally think KDE's dot.kde.org has a nice balance there. It surely aims to inform the contributors about what is going on - at the same time, it does try and be a marketing tool, presenting a positive image. It has arguably been very successful in this as the dot is well known and has a very good reputation, being picked up by many major linux news sites like LWN.
Meanwhile, I am also a translator of Weekly News in addition to being an editor. In translators point of view, (translating) Weekly News has one more important role.
As you know, recently an announcement titled 'Advance discontinuation notice for openSUSE 11.1' was posted to -announce list (and to several other lists). http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-announce/2010-10/msg00008.html
I think it is a very important information which *every* openSUSE user should share. But unfortunately, such kind of announcements are usually posted only in English, that is, there are few chance for users who are not good at reading English to know the information if they are not translated by someone.
I think translating Weekly News will be helpful for solving this problem, because Weekly News always include such kind of important announcements.
Agreed!
Like this, Weekly News can have several roles. We can include a role as a marketing tool in roles of Weekly News, but IMHO, limiting the role to marketing (or advertising) is not a good idea (at least, neither interesting nor attractive for me).
Nope, it shouldn't be too extreme in any direction anyway. It is about balance - hugely negative things could be skipped but constructive critisism and realistic analysis of what is going on should be in there. Marketing in FOSS should be honest, in my opinion. I hope we can find each other - and even if you guys want to keep it as-is, that's no problem. I just wanted to get some thinking about this, not change anything per-se. Cheers, Jos
Best,
-- _/_/ Satoru Matsumoto - openSUSE Member - Japan _/_/ _/_/ Marketing/Weekly News/openFATE Screening Team _/_/ _/_/ mail: helios_reds_at_gmx.net / irc: HeliosReds _/_/ _/_/ http://blog.zaq.ne.jp/opensuse/ _/_/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Hello Jos, normally that Mail shoud go to the editors in PM. But now you're posted it in an official Mailinglist, and so i'm writng to you official. Am Donnerstag, 28. Oktober 2010 00:37:24 wrote Jos Poortvliet:
But for something like the weekly news, I think it might make sense for the team doing it to think about what their purpose is - yes, informing the community. But those part of it or very close most likely do follow the planet. The weekly news is most likely read by users further away from the project and journalists and such - who don't have to be bothered by infighting or bad news ;-) As Satoru has written, actually our Team are four People. 2 of them are writing just two Parts of the openSUSE Weekly News. Satoru and I
collecting Article for the Rest. And Satoru does also the Proofreading Desk. On this place: Thanks a lot, Satoru. The Weekly News can't be without you. In my Case i have many to do outside the openSUSE Project. So i must decide, if i read Mail or RSS News, in a short time, which Article is interesting. And if its interesting then we try to find out which is the best place. I think this is the same as by Satoru. ATM we're an our Limit. To clarify: We don't people who say: "This must be changed". We need People who doing this. So i'm happy to read between your lines, that you would give up a assignment, and join the Team. As little Proposal: Please keep in mind, that we are an international Community. And you have offended my japanese Mate. Please read a book about international native customs and native practices. So i think, that we can do many more in marketing openSUSE.
-- Sincerely yours Sascha Manns open-slx GmbH openSUSE Community & Support Agent openSUSE Marketing Team Blog: http://saigkill.wordpress.com Web: http://www.saschamanns.de Web: http://www.open-slx.de (openSUSE Box Support German) Web: http://www.open-slx.com (openSUSE Box Support English) Open-SLX : Linux convenient, simple, secure and complete
On 2010-10-28 Sascha wrote:
Hello Jos,
normally that Mail shoud go to the editors in PM. But now you're posted it in an official Mailinglist, and so i'm writng to you official.
Sorry if I did something wrong, PM, that's Product Marketing? Aren't the people who work on openSUSE marketing on this list? Product Management? Do we have that?
Am Donnerstag, 28. Oktober 2010 00:37:24 wrote Jos Poortvliet:
But for something like the weekly news, I think it might make sense for the team doing it to think about what their purpose is - yes, informing the community. But those part of it or very close most likely do follow the planet. The weekly news is most likely read by users further away from the project and journalists and such - who don't have to be bothered by infighting or bad news ;-)
As Satoru has written, actually our Team are four People. 2 of them are writing just two Parts of the openSUSE Weekly News. Satoru and I collecting Article for the Rest. And Satoru does also the Proofreading Desk. On this place: Thanks a lot, Satoru. The Weekly News can't be without you. In my Case i have many to do outside the openSUSE Project. So i must decide, if i read Mail or RSS News, in a short time, which Article is interesting. And if its interesting then we try to find out which is the best place. I think this is the same as by Satoru. ATM we're an our Limit.
Which is too bad - after all, as was said during the conference by Henne - we all read the planet. I think most if not all people on this list do. Unless the process of selecting is complicated (no idea how you do that) it should be someting pretty much everyone can do - maybe we should make a bit more noise about the fact that our Weekly News needs help! On the other hand, I still have to find the first team in openSUSE (or anywhere else) which is OVER staffed :D
To clarify: We don't people who say: "This must be changed". We need People who doing this. So i'm happy to read between your lines, that you would give up a assignment, and join the Team. As little Proposal: Please keep in mind, that we are an international Community. And you have offended my japanese Mate. Please read a book about international native customs and native practices.
I am very much sorry about that. I certainly did not intend to do that and will try to be more careful next time! Haven't I said before that I'm dutch and thus bound to be rude? Sorry for that!
So i think, that we can do many more in marketing openSUSE.
And change the world and have more ponies and ... have fun :D
Le 28/10/2010 21:49, Jos Poortvliet a écrit : Which is too bad - after all, as was said during the conference by Henne - we
all read the planet.
no. many people don't have time to read the many openSUSE mailing lists, foruls AND planet. Planet being probably the worst (that is less organized). openSUSE *officials* should be discussed here (or on some list anybody is invited to subscribe), but no anywhere like lizards or planet. Don't you have any other work to do than read the net? I think most if not all people on this list do. Unless
the process of selecting is complicated (no idea how you do that) it should be someting pretty much everyone can do - maybe we should make a bit more noise about the fact that our Weekly News needs help!
weekly news could have a part quoted "official news" and an other "found on then net" jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 28 October 2010 21:51:42 jdd wrote:
Le 28/10/2010 21:49, Jos Poortvliet a écrit :
Which is too bad - after all, as was said during the conference by Henne - we
all read the planet.
no.
many people don't have time to read the many openSUSE mailing lists, foruls AND planet. Planet being probably the worst (that is less organized). openSUSE *officials* should be discussed here (or on some list anybody is invited to subscribe), but no anywhere like lizards or planet. Don't you have any other work to do than read the net?
Gosh, I wish I had more time - I usually read up on the planet around - well, like now, 0200 hour. I need to find a system where I can stay up to date with what is going on yet manage to get my 8 hours sleep ;-)
I think most if not all people on this list do. Unless
the process of selecting is complicated (no idea how you do that) it should be someting pretty much everyone can do - maybe we should make a bit more noise about the fact that our Weekly News needs help!
weekly news could have a part quoted "official news" and an other "found on then net"
Creative solution, yes. The stuff from news.o.o could go naturally in the official news section as the editors there should ensure it's good. Then the cherry picking could be as liberal as needed. If Henne's idea of re-doing news.o.o to turn it into a cherry pickin' platform comes through, maybe this thing is moot and we can integrate that part into the weekly news... Henne should probably blog about his idea or present it here, I don't have the energy now to explain his quite daring idea :D
jdd
participants (8)
-
Graham Lauder -
James Mason -
jdd -
Jos Poortvliet -
Jos Poortvliet -
Nelson Marques -
Sascha 'saigkill' Manns -
Satoru Matsumoto