Hi, Funminobu, As I said on gnome-desktop-devel mailing list a year ago, they chose a wrong target. Here's the situation: 1. IM maintainers for openSUSE/Debian/Ubuntu/Archlinux are fcitx users. You can't deny the fact that Chinese contribute a lot in this field. There's a secret cycle. As I know, they also maintain IBus just because it still has some users (although fcitx is also okay to them, but old habit grows strong). So technically, they are not familar with IBus infrastructure. Yes, an update is easy, but bugfix goes beyond their capability. And they didn't connect with IBus upstream as tight as fcitx. 2. IBus upstream I know (Mr. phuang) works for Chomium OS. So he has no up-to-date information about GNOME integration. He can just concentrate his mind on IBus main framework. It is Red Hat employees that are pushing the integration. phuang seldomly write cods for that. So in the end the bugs will be collected into RedHat's hands. But where their efforts are put? "Benefit for Fedora". And even if the whole Fedora i18n team comes on to fix IBus bugs reported from other distributions, there're only 3-4 people maybe. The fact may let you down. Personally I don't like Fedora's "get out of my way" attitude. Sometimes it's too arrogant that "Upstream first? We're the upstream!". The careless idea was triggered because GNOME was affacted by some people and thought "oh, we need a keyboard input method for non-existing mobile interface. what's the input method we heard overseas? IBus. so let's shit it.", and now everyone has to pay for it. Or let me express it gentlely: "Industry and Community dismatch.". Industry uses IBus, community uses Fcitx. Even in Fedora there're different voices. But fcitx is totally second-class citizen in Fedora, its maintainers even can't get enough resources and roles to update it on time. But what shall we do if we respect the reality? * Judgment. GNOME 3.10 will be in 13.1. The integration is almost done in GNOME and most of the regressions seem to be fixed already unless we found new ones. * Test. It's distribution's responsiblity to test if upstream software works. upstream didn't test for openSUSE in this case. * Bug tolerence/Keep IBus as new as we can. Systemd didn't work as it should in one single release either. * Be brave. In my opinion, if we can't change GNOME, we'd better pick up ASAP. Or the collected "won't fix" bugs for IBus 1.4 gen will ruin our openSUSE GNOME brand because of unstability. If we update now, we still have about 4-5 months to polish and fix it. Greetings Marguerite -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+owner@opensuse.org

Hi, I tried. Fedora 19 introduced a new dialog shown at the first login so that it can set up ibus from the language selected by user. That was interesting. Unfortunately, on KDE, any input method framework didn't start. BTW, I asked Japanese users to update and test ibus to 1.5 placed at obs://home:ftake:ibus15/openSUSE_12.3 I received several reports on the problems of our package. I'll sumerize them later and share them here. I'm now merging three ibus from M17N, M17N:Devel, and dimstar. Fuminobu TAKEYAMA (2013/07/03 21:52), hillwood wrote:

在 2013-06-26三的 00:13 +0900，Fuminobu TAKEYAMA写道： Hi all: Fedora 19 released on July 2, we can test ibus 1.5.2 in Fedora 19 in order to decide whether update ibus to 1.5.2 in openSUSE.

...

Hi,

...

We're leading. If so, we have to ask other distro guys to update and test it and fix its problems with us because we do not have enough human resource to do that.

My concern is just that ibus 1.5 seems to be tested only on the latest GNOME and Fedora.

I guess they will update ibus before 13.1 release even if we do not ask.

But I heard from a Japanese Ubuntu developer that they may start to discuss whether they should switch IM from ibus to fcitx or not.

BTW, anyone knows how to restart publisher of M17N:Devel/openSUSE_12.3/x86_64? It stops for several months by some reason. OBS says "No build possible atm, waiting for jobs in other repositories"

Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

(2013/06/23 23:39), Marguerite Su wrote:

...

Hi, listmates,

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Fuminobu TAKEYAMA wrote:

...

Hello all,

Let's restart to discuss toward 13.1.

We had postponed to update ibus to 1.5.0 for 12.3 because of several regressions or bugs. # and other distributions such as Ubuntu also did.

I have to clear the fact:

Actually Ubuntu follows us. IBus maintainer for Ubuntu is a friend of mine. He trusts our profession/specialty about Gnome, Input Methods, Integration and improvement.

So we don't need to take _other_ distributions into consideration. We're leading.

In my opinion, the block was its functionality under GNOME, like:

* Whitelist for functions. eg: some combo keys/buttons used by Chinese/Japanese were blocked( IBus still had them). It was said such regressions wouldn't be fixed before 3.9. * Other weak implementations about input method GUIs in _core_.

So we need to investigate if such situation turned better on GNOME side.

Greetings

Marguerite

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+owner@opensuse.org

It's good. I have no objection . Fuminobu TAKEYAMA 写道:

Hi all,

I've finished merging the three ibus packages. https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:ftake:branches:M17N/ibus

Could you check changes that you intended are included in this package?

Now I agree to replace M17N's one with it because now I can guess the GNOME team have a lot of tasks for ibus integration which we can see on Fedora 19.

We also need to consider initial configuration for DE other than GNOME. No input method after first login.

Do you have any comments?

Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

(2013/07/04 0:05), Fuminobu TAKEYAMA wrote:

...

Hi,

I tried.

Fedora 19 introduced a new dialog shown at the first login so that it can set up ibus from the language selected by user. That was interesting.

Unfortunately, on KDE, any input method framework didn't start.

BTW, I asked Japanese users to update and test ibus to 1.5 placed at obs://home:ftake:ibus15/openSUSE_12.3

I received several reports on the problems of our package. I'll sumerize them later and share them here.

I'm now merging three ibus from M17N, M17N:Devel, and dimstar.

Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

(2013/07/03 21:52), hillwood wrote:

...

在 2013-06-26三的 00:13 +0900，Fuminobu TAKEYAMA写道： Hi all: Fedora 19 released on July 2, we can test ibus 1.5.2 in Fedora 19 in order to decide whether update ibus to 1.5.2 in openSUSE.

...

Hi,

...

We're leading. If so, we have to ask other distro guys to update and test it and fix its problems with us because we do not have enough human resource to do that.

My concern is just that ibus 1.5 seems to be tested only on the latest GNOME and Fedora.

I guess they will update ibus before 13.1 release even if we do not ask.

But I heard from a Japanese Ubuntu developer that they may start to discuss whether they should switch IM from ibus to fcitx or not.

BTW, anyone knows how to restart publisher of M17N:Devel/openSUSE_12.3/x86_64? It stops for several months by some reason. OBS says "No build possible atm, waiting for jobs in other repositories"

Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

(2013/06/23 23:39), Marguerite Su wrote:

...

Hi, listmates,

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Fuminobu TAKEYAMA wrote:

...

Hello all,

Let's restart to discuss toward 13.1.

We had postponed to update ibus to 1.5.0 for 12.3 because of several regressions or bugs. # and other distributions such as Ubuntu also did.

I have to clear the fact:

Actually Ubuntu follows us. IBus maintainer for Ubuntu is a friend of mine. He trusts our profession/specialty about Gnome, Input Methods, Integration and improvement.

So we don't need to take _other_ distributions into consideration. We're leading.

In my opinion, the block was its functionality under GNOME, like:

* Whitelist for functions. eg: some combo keys/buttons used by Chinese/Japanese were blocked( IBus still had them). It was said such regressions wouldn't be fixed before 3.9. * Other weak implementations about input method GUIs in _core_.

So we need to investigate if such situation turned better on GNOME side.

Greetings

Marguerite

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+owner@opensuse.org