Re: [m17n] Bringing new language (Georgian - ka) to SUSE
Hello Mike, thank you for the reply.
Please ask Karl Eichwalder <ke@suse.de> and Inés Pozo <ip@suse.de> (I added them to the CC:). They can tell you all the details you need to know.
Thanks. Inés was kind enough to reply to my request already. It is nice to hear that Mr. Eichwalder is at SUSE :) He has done lots important things for i18n and m17n of various products/ systems.
I would also like to provide SUSE Linux with seth of freely distributable Georgian scalable, professionally delta-hinted truetype fonts, which are produced by BPG Info-Tech, the leading vendor of Georgian typefaces. It would be nice if theese fonts could default for Georgian language.
I would like to add them. Please tell me where I can download them.
The fonts are available for download at http://aiet.qartuli.net/docs/georgian_on_linux_en.php There are three scalable font files: 1. BPG_Glaho.ttf.gz (Font name: BPG Glaho. Should default for Georgian language on SUSE). This ia a Helvetica type, proportional Georgian font. this is considered as one of the best Georgian fonts. 2. BPG_Chveulebrivi.ttf.gz (Font name: BPG Chveulebrivi. Georgian times-like proportional font). 3. BPG_Courier.ttf.gz (Font name: BPG Courier. For console and fixed width needs). The three fonts licenses permits free distribution separately of bundled with other OS software, as well as free noncommercial and commercial use. The font vendor is BPG Info-Tech, a Finnland-based software and font vendor company.
I would also appreciate your tips how we could enrich the locale or any language-related data on the distribution. Just send all ideas, suggestions, patches, etc. to this mailing list, we can then add it to SuSE Linux.
All right. Could someone kindly tell me where I can find the current Georgian xkb kayboard layout in the distribution? Should I also submit Georgian flag? I will also take a look at the system to find localisable resources. Also, could someone tell me if SUSE installer supports unicode? Thanks again and best regards, Aiet Kolkhi http://www.Gakartuleba.org
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
The three fonts licenses permits free distribution separately of bundled with other OS software, as well as free noncommercial and commercial use.
Do you have a license statement for these fonts somewhere? -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> さんは書きました:
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
The three fonts licenses permits free distribution separately of bundled with other OS software, as well as free noncommercial and commercial use.
Do you have a license statement for these fonts somewhere?
Can you also please tell me which URL to specify in the .spec file? Is your URL http://aiet.qartuli.net/docs/georgian_on_linux_en.php the "official" home for these fonts? And what should I use as the e-mail address of the author? -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
I would also like to provide SUSE Linux with seth of freely distributable Georgian scalable, professionally delta-hinted truetype fonts, which are produced by BPG Info-Tech, the leading vendor of Georgian typefaces. It would be nice if theese fonts could default for Georgian language.
According to fontconfig, *none* of these fonts supports Georgian: mfabian@magellan:~$ fc-list "BPG Courier" lang :lang=aa|af|ast|ava|ay|be|bg|bi|bin|br|bs|ca|ce|ch|co|cs|cy|da|de|en|eo|es|et|eu|fi|fj|fo|fr|fur|fy|gd|gl|gn|gv|ho|hr|hu|ia|ibo|id|ie|ik|io|is|it|ki|kl|kum|la|lb|lez|lt|lv|mg|mh|mt|nb|nds|nl|nn|no|ny|oc|om|os|pl|pt|rm|ru|se|sel|sh|sk|sl|sma|smj|smn|so|sq|sr|sv|sw|tn|tr|ts|uk|vo|vot|wa|wen|wo|xh|yap|zu mfabian@magellan:~$ fc-list "BPG Glaho" lang :lang=fj|ho|ia|ie|io|om|so|sw|ts|xh|zu mfabian@magellan:~$ fc-list "BPG Chveulebrivi" lang :lang=aa|ast|ay|bi|br|ch|da|de|en|es|eu|fj|fo|fur|fy|gd|gl|gv|ho|ia|id|ie|io|is|it|lb|mg|nb|nds|nl|nn|no|oc|om|pt|rm|sma|smj|so|sq|sv|sw|tn|ts|vo|wa|xh|yap|zu mfabian@magellan:~$ Note that "ka" is missing in the output. This is because fontconfig currently requires the following characters in a font to support Georgian: # $RCSId: xc/lib/fontconfig/fc-lang/ka.orth,v 1.2 2002/07/06 23:59:16 keithp Exp $ # # Copyright © 2002 Keith Packard [... license comment ommitted ...] # Georgian (KA) 0589 # Armenian full stop (vertsaket) #10a0-10c5 # capital letters, not used in normal writing 10d0-10f6 #10f7-10f8 # additional letters for Mingrelian and Svan 10fb #2018 # single quote #201a # single quote #201c # double quote #201e # double quote None of the three BPG fonts has U+0589. "BPG Glaho" and "BPG Courier" support U+10d0 - U+10f6 and U+10fb but "BPG Chveulebrivi" lacks U+10f1 - U+10f6. Therefore, none of these fonts will be selected by default when running in a Georgian locale, even if I add entries in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf to prefer these fonts. Is U+0589 really needed for Georgian? If not, this requirement should be removed from ka.orth in fontconfig. If yes, this character needs to be added to the fonts. What about the missing U+10f1 - U+10f6 in "BPG Chveulebrivi"? -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> さんは書きました:
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
I would also like to provide SUSE Linux with seth of freely distributable Georgian scalable, professionally delta-hinted truetype fonts, which are produced by BPG Info-Tech, the leading vendor of Georgian typefaces. It would be nice if theese fonts could default for Georgian language.
[...]
Therefore, none of these fonts will be selected by default when running in a Georgian locale, even if I add entries in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf to prefer these fonts.
This brings us to the next problem: Currently there is no ka_GE.UTF-8 locale on SuSE Linux 9.3¹, only ka_GE: mfabian@magellan:~$ LANG=ka_GE locale -k language language="Georgian" mfabian@magellan:~$ LANG=ka_GE locale charmap GEORGIAN-PS mfabian@magellan:~$ and I don't think this is useful. An UTF-8 version can be generated though with the command: localedef -c -i ka_GE -f UTF-8 /usr/lib/locale/ka_GE.utf8 from the source in /usr/share/i18n/locales/ka_GE. If this source is useful, the UTF-8 locale will be OK as well. Do you already have an account in the Novell Bugzilla? If not, please go to https://bugzilla.novell.com/ and create yourself an account. Please tell me the e-mail address you used for your bugzilla account, then I can add you to the CC: of bugs related to Georgian. [...] Footnotes: ¹ By the way, there is something wrong with the download link for the locale package on your page, when trying to download http://aiet.qartuli.net/download/locales-ka-2.3.3-7mdk.i586.rpm I always get an empty file. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> さんは書きました:
Currently there is no ka_GE.UTF-8 locale on SuSE Linux 9.3¹, only ka_GE:
now filed as bug #84527 on http://bugzilla.novell.com. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
On 5/19/05, Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> wrote:
Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> さんは書きました:
Currently there is no ka_GE.UTF-8 locale on SuSE Linux 9.3¹, only ka_GE:
now filed as bug #84527 on http://bugzilla.novell.com.
I just read on Novell Bug search page, that the bugs come in various levels/ restrictions: Bug is accessible to Novell employees only. Bug is accessible to Novell employees and SuSE partners/beta testers only. Bug is accessible to Novell employees and a single Novell partner only. Bug has no group restrictions. Accessible to all. This is probably the cause why I can not see the bug. Mike, could you change the type/ restriction of the bug #84527 to be accessible to all? Thanks. -- Best regards, Aiet Kolkhi
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
On 5/19/05, Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> wrote:
Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> さんは書きました:
Currently there is no ka_GE.UTF-8 locale on SuSE Linux 9.3¹, only ka_GE:
now filed as bug #84527 on http://bugzilla.novell.com.
[...]
Mike, could you change the type/ restriction of the bug #84527 to be accessible to all?
I added you to the CC: list of the bug to give you access. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
Yes, UTF-8 is the only proper way to use for Georgian. the 8-bit encodings are no longer used. On 5/19/05, Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> wrote:
If not, please go to https://bugzilla.novell.com/ and create yourself an account. Please tell me the e-mail address you used for your bugzilla account, then I can add you to the CC: of bugs related to Georgian.
Thanks. The email used for creating mu account is aietkolkhi <at> gmail.com
¹ By the way, there is something wrong with the download link for the locale package on your page, when trying to download http://aiet.qartuli.net/download/locales-ka-2.3.3-7mdk.i586.rpm I always get an empty file.
I have corrected the file. It should be working now.
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
Yes, UTF-8 is the only proper way to use for Georgian. the 8-bit encodings are no longer used.
On 5/19/05, Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> wrote:
If not, please go to https://bugzilla.novell.com/ and create yourself an account. Please tell me the e-mail address you used for your bugzilla account, then I can add you to the CC: of bugs related to Georgian.
Thanks. The email used for creating mu account is aietkolkhi <at> gmail.com
Didn't work, when trying to add you to the CC: of the bugreport, I got the error message: One or more of the names/email addresses you entered into fields on the previous page were unable to make a valid match. Go back to the previous page and try other names/email addresses. ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ CC: aietkolkhi@gmail.com did not match anything Did you create your account already? -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
On 5/20/05, Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> wrote:
Didn't work, when trying to add you to the CC: of the bugreport, [...] Did you create your account already?
I am sorry, my account is active now. Apparently, it needed a varification.
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
¹ By the way, there is something wrong with the download link for the locale package on your page, when trying to download http://aiet.qartuli.net/download/locales-ka-2.3.3-7mdk.i586.rpm I always get an empty file.
I have corrected the file. It should be working now.
Thank you, I could download http://aiet.qartuli.net/download/locales-ka-2.3.4-2mdk.i586.rpm now. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
Hello Mike, again, thanks for raising the very important issue.
# Georgian (KA) 0589 # Armenian full stop (vertsaket) #10a0-10c5 # capital letters, not used in normal writing 10d0-10f6 #10f7-10f8 # additional letters for Mingrelian and Svan 10fb #2018 # single quote #201a # single quote #201c # double quote #201e # double quote
[omitted]
None of the three BPG fonts has U+0589.
#0589 (Armenian full stop) is a big mistake, as 0589 has nothing to do with Georgian alphabeth (it is not even in Unicode Georgian range). It is indeed very strange how this letter ended up in list. #10a0-10c5 (as you noted) are not used in modern-day Georgian writing and I think should be removed from Georgian font requirement list. #10f7-10f8 letters for Mingrelian and Svan should also be removed from the list, as practically they are as good as never used in Georgian writing too.
"BPG Glaho" and "BPG Courier" support U+10d0 - U+10f6 and U+10fb but "BPG Chveulebrivi" lacks U+10f1 - U+10f6.
Therefore, none of these fonts will be selected by default when running in a Georgian locale, even if I add entries in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf to prefer these fonts.
I think we should remove all the letters from the requirement I noted above.
Is U+0589 really needed for Georgian? If not, this requirement should be removed from ka.orth in fontconfig.
Could you kindly tell me the author of ka.orth file, or where I could report the bugs? Thanks. -- Best regards, Aiet Kolkhi http://www Gakartuleba.org
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
# Georgian (KA) 0589 # Armenian full stop (vertsaket) #10a0-10c5 # capital letters, not used in normal writing 10d0-10f6 #10f7-10f8 # additional letters for Mingrelian and Svan 10fb #2018 # single quote #201a # single quote #201c # double quote #201e # double quote
[omitted]
None of the three BPG fonts has U+0589.
#0589 (Armenian full stop) is a big mistake, as 0589 has nothing to do with Georgian alphabeth (it is not even in Unicode Georgian range). It is indeed very strange how this letter ended up in list.
#10a0-10c5 (as you noted) are not used in modern-day Georgian writing and I think should be removed from Georgian font requirement list.
Is already commented out, i.e. this line in ka.orth is not used.
#10f7-10f8 letters for Mingrelian and Svan should also be removed from the list, as practically they are as good as never used in Georgian writing too.
also already commented out.
"BPG Glaho" and "BPG Courier" support U+10d0 - U+10f6 and U+10fb but "BPG Chveulebrivi" lacks U+10f1 - U+10f6.
Therefore, none of these fonts will be selected by default when running in a Georgian locale, even if I add entries in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf to prefer these fonts.
I think we should remove all the letters from the requirement I noted above.
But what about U+10f1 -U+10f6 which are missing in BPG Chveulebrivi? Are these needed or not? -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
An updated fontconfig package is available here ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/m17n/9.3/i586/fontconfig-2.2.99.20050218-8.1.i586.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/m17n/9.3/i586/fontconfig-devel-2.2.99.20050218-8.1.i586.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/m17n/9.3/src/fontconfig-2.2.99.20050218-8.1.src.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/m17n/9.3/x86_64/fontconfig-2.2.99.20050218-8.1.x86_64.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/m17n/9.3/x86_64/fontconfig-devel-2.2.99.20050218-8.1.x86_64.rpm It makes "BPG Glaho" the preferred font for "sans-serif", "BPG Chveulebrivi" the preferred font for "serif" and "BPG Courier" the preferred font for "monospace" when running in a Georgian locale. I.e., LC_CTYPE=ka_GE.UTF-8 xfd -fa monospace should give you "BPG Courier". This works only because I also changed ka.orth with the following patch: diff -ru fontconfig-2.2.99.20050218.orig/fc-lang/ka.orth fontconfig-2.2.99.20050218/fc-lang/ka.orth --- fontconfig-2.2.99.20050218.orig/fc-lang/ka.orth 2004-12-07 02:14:46.000000000 +0100 +++ fontconfig-2.2.99.20050218/fc-lang/ka.orth 2005-05-20 12:42:30.000000000 +0200 @@ -22,9 +22,9 @@ # PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE. # # Georgian (KA) -0589 # Armenian full stop (vertsaket) +# 0589 # Armenian full stop (vertsaket) #10a0-10c5 # capital letters, not used in normal writing -10d0-10f6 +10d0-10f0 #10f7-10f8 # additional letters for Mingrelian and Svan 10fb #2018 # single quote Is it really OK to remove U+10f1 -U+10f6 from the requirement because "BPG Chveulebrivi" doesn't have them or is "BGP Chveulebrivi" incomplete? -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
On 5/20/05, Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> wrote:
Is it really OK to remove U+10f1 -U+10f6 from the requirement because "BPG Chveulebrivi" doesn't have them or is "BGP Chveulebrivi" incomplete?
Yes indeed. They were removed from Georgian alphabeth about 100 years ago. -- Aiet Kolkhi
On 5/20/05, Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> wrote:
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
# Georgian (KA) 0589 # Armenian full stop (vertsaket) #10a0-10c5 # capital letters, not used in normal writing 10d0-10f6 #10f7-10f8 # additional letters for Mingrelian and Svan 10fb #2018 # single quote #201a # single quote #201c # double quote #201e # double quote
[omitted]
None of the three BPG fonts has U+0589.
#0589 (Armenian full stop) is a big mistake, as 0589 has nothing to do with Georgian alphabeth (it is not even in Unicode Georgian range). It is indeed very strange how this letter ended up in list.
#10a0-10c5 (as you noted) are not used in modern-day Georgian writing and I think should be removed from Georgian font requirement list.
Is already commented out, i.e. this line in ka.orth is not used.
#10f7-10f8 letters for Mingrelian and Svan should also be removed from the list, as practically they are as good as never used in Georgian writing too.
also already commented out.
"BPG Glaho" and "BPG Courier" support U+10d0 - U+10f6 and U+10fb but "BPG Chveulebrivi" lacks U+10f1 - U+10f6.
Therefore, none of these fonts will be selected by default when running in a Georgian locale, even if I add entries in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf to prefer these fonts.
I think we should remove all the letters from the requirement I noted above.
But what about U+10f1 -U+10f6 which are missing in BPG Chveulebrivi?
Are these needed or not?
No, they are not used in present-day alphabet either. The letters used today are 10D0-10F0 only, so they should be commented out as well. -- Aiet Kolkhi
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
Could someone kindly tell me where I can find the current Georgian xkb kayboard layout in the distribution?
/etc/X11/xkb/symbols/ge_la /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/ge_ru /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc/ge_la /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc/ge_ru Your keyboard layout http://aiet.qartuli.net/download/ge_la.gz is apparently very different from the already existing /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc/ge_la Apparently you updated it a lot. I filed a bugreport against xorg: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3332
Should I also submit Georgian flag?
I think flags are only used in KDE. YaST2 doesn't use any flags. I.e. if you want to add a Georgian flag, better submit it to the KDE project so they can add it upstream. It will then appear on SuSE Linux after the next KDE update.
I will also take a look at the system to find localisable resources.
Thank you.
Also, could someone tell me if SUSE installer supports unicode?
Yes, it does. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
On 5/18/05, Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> wrote:
Can you also please tell me which URL to specify in the .spec file? Is your URL http://aiet.qartuli.net/docs/georgian_on_linux_en.php the "official" home for these fonts?
Yes, since the fonts are special versions for use on GNU Linux systems and were created by font vendor on my request, they are only published on my site (of course, they can be hosted/ published basically anywhere). So the official URL should be http://aiet.qartuli.net/docs/georgian_on_linux_en.php
And what should I use as the e-mail address of the author?
I have sent you the address of the author directly to your address.
Your keyboard layout http://aiet.qartuli.net/download/ge_la.gz is apparently very different from the already existing etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc/ge_la
Apparently you updated it a lot. I filed a bugreport against xorg:
Thank you very much. I will post a follow-up there too. Also, the new ergonomic eyboard layout standard was adopted recently. I will create Georgian ergonomic layout mode too. The most popular and widely used Georgian layout is ge_la, so this should be the default one for Georgian.
I think flags are only used in KDE. YaST2 doesn't use any flags.
I.e. if you want to add a Georgian flag, better submit it to the KDE project so they can add it upstream. It will then appear on SuSE Linux after the next KDE update.
Thank you.
Also, could someone tell me if SUSE installer supports unicode?
Yes, it does.
Nice. Could you kindly tell me if there is a Georgian unicode console font in tn SuSE distribution? -- Best regards, Aiet Kolkhi http://www.Gakartuleba.org
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
Yes, since the fonts are special versions for use on GNU Linux systems and were created by font vendor on my request, they are only published on my site (of course, they can be hosted/ published basically anywhere). So the official URL should be http://aiet.qartuli.net/docs/georgian_on_linux_en.php
The fonts are available as a SuSE package now: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/m17n/9.3/noarch/bpg-fonts-0.20050518-0.1.noarch.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/m17n/9.3/src/bpg-fonts-0.20050518-0.1.src.rpm and will be included in the next version of SuSE Linux. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
Also, could someone tell me if SUSE installer supports unicode?
Yes, it does.
Nice. Could you kindly tell me if there is a Georgian unicode console font in tn SuSE distribution?
I don't think so. Do you have one? Georgian on the console probably works when using fbiterm (a terminal emulator for a framebuffer Linux console using X11 bitmap fonts, by default it uses the Gnu Unifont). -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> さんは書きました:
Aiet Kolkhi <aietkolkhi@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
Also, could someone tell me if SUSE installer supports unicode?
Yes, it does.
Nice. Could you kindly tell me if there is a Georgian unicode console font in tn SuSE distribution?
I don't think so. Do you have one?
Georgian on the console probably works when using fbiterm (a terminal emulator for a framebuffer Linux console using X11 bitmap fonts, by default it uses the Gnu Unifont).
For installation, that is not very useful though, when you can use a framebuffer, you can almost always do a graphical installation as well. If you cannot do a graphical installtion, it is unlikely that a text-mode framebuffer installation will work. To use Georgian on a non-framebuffer VGA-Console, a Georgian font is needed and I don't think we currently have one. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
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