Japanese menu problems under IceWM
Howdy. I don't think this is SuSE specific, so this post may not belong here. But it is Japanese related, and I've posted this twice to IceWM's mailing lists and received 0 replies. I compiled IceWM 1.2.0 for international support (--enable-i18n). In the program menu, IceWM seems to have a problem (bug?) with any folder or program with Japanese characters for its name. Here's a screenshot which demonstrates the problem. http://epierce.freeshell.org/menu.png If you'll note, the four (automated by IceWM) Japanese entries up from the bottom have proper quick-keys assigned (i.e., the (A), (T), etc.), but the 7-8 Japanese entries that I added all have a problem (i.e., just a little dot shows up). After a quick look at 'ja/LC_MESSAGES/icewm.mo', I tried to copy what was going on there by adding something like (_M) after the Japanese in the 'menu' file in hopes of assigning my own quick-key, but that didn't work. IceWM only seems to be looking for roman characters for its automatic quick-key assignment. Anyone have any ideas here? Thanks for reading... Eric P __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! BB is Broadband by Yahoo! http://bb.yahoo.co.jp/
ピアス エリック <eric_karatsujp@yahoo.co.jp> さんは書きました:
I compiled IceWM 1.2.0 for international support (--enable-i18n). In the program menu, IceWM seems to have a problem (bug?) with any folder or program with Japanese characters for its name. Here's a screenshot which demonstrates the problem. http://epierce.freeshell.org/menu.png
If you'll note, the four (automated by IceWM) Japanese entries up from the bottom have proper quick-keys assigned (i.e., the (A), (T), etc.), but the 7-8 Japanese entries that I added all have a problem (i.e., just a little dot shows up). After a quick look at 'ja/LC_MESSAGES/icewm.mo', I tried to copy what was going on there by adding something like (_M) after the Japanese in the 'menu' file in hopes of assigning my own quick-key, but that didn't work. IceWM only seems to be looking for roman characters for its automatic quick-key assignment.
This problem has apparently been fixed in icewm-1.2.7. It was still there in the icewm-1.2.6 distributed with SuSE Linux 8.2. Updated icewm packages for SuSE 8.2 are here: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-i586/icewm-1.2.7-0.i586.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-i586/icewm-default-1.2.7-0.i586.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-i586/icewm-gnome-1.2.7-0.i586.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-i586/icewm-lite-1.2.7-0.i586.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-src/icewm-1.2.7-0.src.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-src/icewm-default-1.2.7-0.nosrc.rpm ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-src/icewm-lite-1.2.7-0.nosrc.rpm I didn't do anything related to the problem reported by Eric, this must have been fixed upstream. The above new packages contain another improvement though which is not (yet) in the upstream version of icewm. They use font rendering via Xft by default always, even on displays without render extension. This has the advantage that it is very easy to have font settings which work correctly in most locales, the defaults "sans" and "monospace" work for most locales automatically because these aliases are expanded automatically to a font suitable for the current locale according to the rules in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf. See for example the screen shot http://www.suse.de/~mfabian/misc/icewm-20030426/icewm-japanese-anti-aliased.... This shows icewm running in an Xnest (Xnest has no RENDER extension), nevertheless you see the Japanese texts shown by icewm (with my patch applied) with anti-aliasing. The locale is ja_JP.UTF-8, the same font settings work in ja_JP.eucJP as well (and in most other locales). Xft2 works fine on displays without RENDER extension, there is no reason to switch it off automatically when a display without render extension is detected. Even with this patch, you can still switch off Xft font rendering by using the option XFreeType=0 in the "preferences" config file. But then you need to change the default font settings in that config file as well, as Xft is now used always by default, I optimised the default font settings for use with Xft. To check the problem reported by Eric, I edited ~/.icewm/menu a bit to contain an entry menufile ツールバー(_M) folder toolbar You can see that this apparently doesn't work with icewm-1.2.6: http://www.suse.de/~mfabian/misc/icewm-20030426/icewm-1.2.6-japanese-menu-ke... (you still see the underscore in front of the "M" in the screen shot), but it works correctly in icewm-1.2.7: http://www.suse.de/~mfabian/misc/icewm-20030426/icewm-1.2.7-japanese-anti-al... (it doesn't only look correct, the key also work :-)) Both screen shots are made when running in ja_JP.UTF-8 locale in Xnest, you can see that the Japanese displays as boxes in the icewm-1.2.6 screen shot but looks fine in the icewm-1.2.7 screen shot. The icewm-1.2.6 screen shot doesn't use Xft but X11 core fonts (because of lack of the RENDER extension in Xnest) and the default font settings are not OK for Japanese in UTF-8. This can be fixed rather easily by using different font settings in "preferences", but it is not so easy to find settings which work for all locales, especially not because the maximum line length of the icewm config files is limited to 256 characters, you reach that limit easily if you use long font sets. Don't worry that the fonts look huge in the screen shot of icewm-1.2.7, this is just because the rather small Xnest (800x600 pixels) is running on my big screen with 1600x1200 pixels and a resolution of 112x112 dots per inch. The resolution in the Xnest is therefore also 112x112 dots per inch and as the font size is specified in point and scalable fonts are used, this results in rather huge fonts for a 800x600 screen. On a real 800x600 display the resolution would be smaller which would result in smaller fonts ("smaller" meaning less pixels heigh). -- Mike Fabian <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
Wow... the timing of your reply is totally bizarre. I decided today on a whim that it was time to upgrade my IceWM from 1.2.0 to 1.2.7. And I discovered as well that the menu problem I was having has been solved. However, I didn't know of the switch to Xft for font rendering. I grabbed 1.2.7 stable, and it sounds like that had yet to be implemented. I'll have to check that out. Anyway, thanks for getting back to my post from (must be) several months ago. I'm now down to exactly 0 issues with IceWM -- it's perfect! It loads extremely fast on my 333Mhz laptop, Japanese fonts look beautiful, it never crashes, and it's customizable with the best of them (not to mention that I can turn off the task bar and go completely mouseless). Thanks as always, Mike. Eric Pierce --- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> からのメッセージ：
ピアス エリック <eric_karatsujp@yahoo.co.jp> さんは書きました:
I compiled IceWM 1.2.0 for international support (--enable-i18n). In the program menu, IceWM seems to have a problem (bug?) with any folder or program with Japanese characters for its name. Here's a screenshot which demonstrates the problem. http://epierce.freeshell.org/menu.png
If you'll note, the four (automated by IceWM) Japanese entries up from the bottom have proper quick-keys assigned (i.e., the (A), (T), etc.), but the 7-8 Japanese entries that I added all have a problem (i.e., just a little dot shows up). After a quick look at 'ja/LC_MESSAGES/icewm.mo', I tried to copy what was going on there by adding something like (_M) after the Japanese in the 'menu' file in hopes of assigning my own quick-key, but that didn't work. IceWM only seems to be looking for roman characters for its automatic quick-key assignment.
This problem has apparently been fixed in icewm-1.2.7. It was still there in the icewm-1.2.6 distributed with SuSE Linux 8.2.
Updated icewm packages for SuSE 8.2 are here:
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-i586/icewm-1.2.7-0.i586.rpm
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-i586/icewm-default-1.2.7-0.i586.rpm
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-i586/icewm-gnome-1.2.7-0.i586.rpm
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-i586/icewm-lite-1.2.7-0.i586.rpm
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-src/icewm-1.2.7-0.src.rpm
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-src/icewm-default-1.2.7-0.nosrc.rpm
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-src/icewm-lite-1.2.7-0.nosrc.rpm
I didn't do anything related to the problem reported by Eric, this must have been fixed upstream.
The above new packages contain another improvement though which is not (yet) in the upstream version of icewm. They use font rendering via Xft by default always, even on displays without render extension.
This has the advantage that it is very easy to have font settings which work correctly in most locales, the defaults "sans" and "monospace" work for most locales automatically because these aliases are expanded automatically to a font suitable for the current locale according to the rules in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf.
See for example the screen shot
http://www.suse.de/~mfabian/misc/icewm-20030426/icewm-japanese-anti-aliased....
This shows icewm running in an Xnest (Xnest has no RENDER extension), nevertheless you see the Japanese texts shown by icewm (with my patch applied) with anti-aliasing. The locale is ja_JP.UTF-8, the same font settings work in ja_JP.eucJP as well (and in most other locales).
Xft2 works fine on displays without RENDER extension, there is no reason to switch it off automatically when a display without render extension is detected.
Even with this patch, you can still switch off Xft font rendering by using the option
XFreeType=0
in the "preferences" config file. But then you need to change the default font settings in that config file as well, as Xft is now used always by default, I optimised the default font settings for use with Xft.
To check the problem reported by Eric, I edited ~/.icewm/menu a bit to contain an entry
menufile ツールバー(_M) folder toolbar
You can see that this apparently doesn't work with icewm-1.2.6:
http://www.suse.de/~mfabian/misc/icewm-20030426/icewm-1.2.6-japanese-menu-ke...
(you still see the underscore in front of the "M" in the screen shot), but it works correctly in icewm-1.2.7:
http://www.suse.de/~mfabian/misc/icewm-20030426/icewm-1.2.7-japanese-anti-al...
(it doesn't only look correct, the key also work :-))
Both screen shots are made when running in ja_JP.UTF-8 locale in Xnest, you can see that the Japanese displays as boxes in the icewm-1.2.6 screen shot but looks fine in the icewm-1.2.7 screen shot.
The icewm-1.2.6 screen shot doesn't use Xft but X11 core fonts (because of lack of the RENDER extension in Xnest) and the default font settings are not OK for Japanese in UTF-8. This can be fixed rather easily by using different font settings in "preferences", but it is not so easy to find settings which work for all locales, especially not because the maximum line length of the icewm config files is limited to 256 characters, you reach that limit easily if you use long font sets.
Don't worry that the fonts look huge in the screen shot of icewm-1.2.7, this is just because the rather small Xnest (800x600 pixels) is running on my big screen with 1600x1200 pixels and a resolution of 112x112 dots per inch.
The resolution in the Xnest is therefore also 112x112 dots per inch and as the font size is specified in point and scalable fonts are used, this results in rather huge fonts for a 800x600 screen. On a real 800x600 display the resolution would be smaller which would result in smaller fonts ("smaller" meaning less pixels heigh).
-- Mike Fabian <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
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__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! BB is Broadband by Yahoo! http://bb.yahoo.co.jp/
Hello, I have one question: I have to use mostly Japanese and English - but I also want to use German and French under Linux. During the install, the install language is asked. Which method is easiest/recommended: 1) doing the install in English or German and add Japanese language support. 2) doing the install in Japanese. Another question, if I do 2) can I later easily switch the menu and help texts to English/German ? Thank you Michael
"Michael Engel" <michael-engel@ma.dic.co.jp> さんは書きました:
I have to use mostly Japanese and English - but I also want to use German and French under Linux.
I recommend to use an UTF-8 locale then, for example: export LANG=de_DE.UTF-8 export LC_CTYPE=ja_JP.UTF-8 export LC_MESSAGES=en_GB.UTF-8 or something like that (LC_CTYPE=ja_JP.UTF-8 to activate Japanese input automatically, the other LC_* variables as you like). Edit your preferred defaults into /etc/sysconfig/language.
During the install, the install language is asked.
Which method is easiest/recommended: 1) doing the install in English or German and add Japanese language support. 2) doing the install in Japanese.
There is not much difference. Doing the install in Japanese will automatically install a few Japanese related packages, for example the Japanese input software kinput2 and Canna and some Japanese fonts. But it is also very easy to add these later after the installation with YaST2.
Another question, if I do 2) can I later easily switch the menu and help texts to English/German ?
Yes, just edit /etc/sysconfig/language and set LC_MESSAGES to your preferred language for messages. And select your favourite language for the KDE menus in the KDE control centre. You need to install the appropriate kde3-i18n-<language> package to be able to select it in the KDE control centre. Only the kde3-i18n-<language> package for the language used during the installation is installed by default. -- Mike Fabian <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
I asked> I have to use mostly Japanese and English - but I also want to use I asked> German and French under Linux. Mike said>I recommend to use an UTF-8 locale then, for example: Mike said> export LANG=de_DE.UTF-8 Mike said>export LC_CTYPE=ja_JP.UTF-8 Mike said>export LC_MESSAGES=en_GB.UTF-8 Now, I have a problem (most probably due to my very basic understanding of Linux but I promise, I will learn it): KMail (KDE?) swallowed all French special characters from an email which I received, they are just left out. OpenOffice doesn't show them either, here they are squares etc. With vi, however, I can see them all correctly. Any hint where to look, what to change ? Thank you Michael p.s. I can also read it when saving as an encapsulated message and then opening with KWrite and switching the encoding to iso 8859-1
"Michael Engel" <michael-engel@ma.dic.co.jp> さんは書きました:
I asked> I have to use mostly Japanese and English - but I also want to use I asked> German and French under Linux.
Mike said>I recommend to use an UTF-8 locale then, for example: Mike said> export LANG=de_DE.UTF-8 Mike said>export LC_CTYPE=ja_JP.UTF-8 Mike said>export LC_MESSAGES=en_GB.UTF-8
Now, I have a problem (most probably due to my very basic understanding of Linux but I promise, I will learn it):
KMail (KDE?) swallowed all French special characters from an email which I received, they are just left out.
Was the e-mail correctly encoded and the MIME headers OK? Does it help if you manually choose the correct encoding for the display of this mail in the KMail menu? If yes, something is wrong with the mail. If not I guess you have a font problem. Which font(s) are you using? If you want to use a single font, you have to make sure that it contains all characters you need, i.e. you cannot use Kochi Minch or Kochi Gothic alone for example because these don't have German Umlauts and other accented characters. But you can use Kochi Mincho/Kochi Gothic together with some other font which supports all the European glyphs. I.e. you can select "Nimbus Mono L" for example. Because of the default setup in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf, "Kochi Gothic" will be used for the Japanese glyphs then. "qtconfig" has a dialog to setup font substitutions to setup your preferred font combinations, see also: http://www.suse.de/~mfabian/suse-cjk/kde-font-setup.html Unfortunately this doesn't work with the Qt 3.1.1 packages on SuSE Linux 8.2 and it doesn't work with the Qt 3.1.2 packages in ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/8.2-i586 either. But with the current beta version of Qt it works again. You can get packages for testing here: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mfabian/experimental/8.2-i586
OpenOffice doesn't show them either, here they are squares etc.
This is probably a font issue as well.
With vi, however, I can see them all correctly.
p.s. I can also read it when saving as an encapsulated message and then opening with KWrite and switching the encoding to iso 8859-1
What happens when you select iso-8859-1 in the KMail menu? -- Mike Fabian <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。
participants (3)
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Michael Engel -
Mike FABIAN -
ピアス エリック