On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 08:54:29 +0200, Marguerite Su wrote:
Hi,
There were some discussions about Noto CJK fonts in the ML and in the comments of an SR: SR#446888
I want to summarize the concerns from different sides here:
1. the size limit of the DVD.
Due to the size limit, someone chose the SuperOTC format to distribute Noto CJK.
See the rpm changelog, it's Frederic's proposal (now Cc'ed).
And it brought some troubles like:
Japanese glyphs will be always preferred because of its alphabetical order.
This was partially resolved using a specific fontconfig configuration, which prepends the right order by lang. but this solution didn't take into consideration for cases like "how to display CJK chars right in a Latin environment".
We wanted to switch back to the OTF fonts, because it's the only way to solve all related issues.
But we still didn't have a conclusion for the new font names. eg google-noto-sans-cjksc-thin-font, google-noto-sans-cjk-thin-fonts, google-noto-sans-cjk-basic-fonts...
Because we want to split the seldom used weights to save space for the DVD.
2. the attempt to make it default for CJK.
I think this need is growing today because Google released Noto Serif and gave us the possibility to replace the ancient "AR PL UMing" fonts
And the only concern for this attempt is: Japanese needs its Demi-light instead of Regular/Medium weight. I think this can be handled with fontconfig.
3. the conflicts between Adobe Source Han and Noto CJK
I received a bug report and I knew our packagers also prepared partial support for CJK (TW and JP) from Source Han side.
This is duplicated actually. Because Google and Adobe actually used the same source.
The only differences are the name and the Latin part.
Adobe used Source Sans for the Latin part, Google inhibited it (So the two fonts are identical) but wrote a guideline to ask users to override the Latin part with Noto Sans/Reboto.
So a new need is triggered. We need to write a new fontconfig to alias Adobe Source Han by Noto CJK and handle the minor weight differences.
4. the symbol part.
openSUSE still used the old URW "Standard Symbol L" or "OpenSymbol" from libreOffice to provide symbols.
But there're a few new modern and even colored symbol fonts available now:
* Noto provides "Noto Emoji" * "EmojiOne Color" * Deepin Linux also released a free symbol font "Deepin OpenSymbol" which is 100% compatible with Wingdings on Windows
I think it's time to evaluate our choice for symbol fonts again.
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I'll address 3 and 4 in fonts-config package. for 1 and 2:
1. I removed CJK support from google-noto-fonts.
Because we really need a new namespace for CJK.
The scalable value and Provides needed to be handled separately and we don't want to mess the generate-specfile.sh any more.
2. We need to introduce 4 sources (115mb each) to have the monospace font.
The region specific fonts are small (because each only covers one region eg Japanese, which means you can't display any Chinese), but they don't provide monospace fonts.
3. We need a new namespace for Noto Serif CJK.
Because it is new and shouldn't have those Provides/Obsoletes.
4. We need to have new names.
I want to write a new script to name the fonts to:
google-noto-(sans|serif)-cjk(sc|tc|ja|kr)-{weight}-font
That is, fully separate them first, and then use dummy packages:
google-noto-(sans|serif)-cjk(sc|tc|ja|kr)-(mini|full)
to group them again..
And our DVD will include google-noto-sans-cjk(sc|tc|ja|kr)-mini only.
which is about 35mb x 4 = 140mb.
and there'll be a new dummy package:
google-noto-sans-cjk
which requires google-noto-sans-cjksc-mini or google-noto-sans-cjkja-mini only.
because:
4.1 Latin people don't care the glyph difference between Chinese and Japanese that much
Heh, so this answers your question in the beginning "how to display CJK chars right in a Latin environment"? Answer: "they don't care" :) Apart from kidding, IMO, we still need a fontconfig help no matter whether CJK fonts are split or not. The same problem still appears when you install both Chinese and Japanese fonts on a single system, for example.
4.2 each of the four mini package contains full coverage of CJK, so you will not want to install another one if you have one.
Well, but this will still introduce a regression when you upgrade a system containing the old google-noto-sans-cjk. Basically this meta package is only for the upgrade, thus we don't need to care much about the size reduction, i.e. we can take *all* relevant font subpackages.
5 Noto Serif CJK
It'll be easy and don't need that detailed split because it's not an UI font....it'll be just named:
google-noto-serif-cjk{sc|tc|ja|kr}-fonts which contains all seven weights.
Of course, font configurations are still needed for Japanese because the Demi-light issue.
I find these proposals are sensible and feasible. As long as the upgrades would work smoothly (and I guess so), I'm for this movement. thanks, Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-m17n+owner@opensuse.org