[opensuse-kubic] MicroOS Desktop - Road Test Report :-)
Hello,
During this last week, I've installed MicroOS with its GNOME Desktop
flavour a few times, both in VMs and on actual workstations, in order
to test how it would work for me.
I have a report of all that, which I'm both including and attaching to
this mail (sorry for the poor formatting and long lines, it's converted
from a webpage... I am also attaching it, hoping it's more readable in
that format).
I also quickly tested Fedora Silverblue, and I've added some notes
about the differences I think are the most relevant.
There are some hiccups but, you know what, I'm actually *keeping* it on
my workstation. ;-P
I also have a laptop, and I don't have time to re-install it right
now... but I'm looking forward to be able to put it there to,
especially if we manage to solve some of the issues. :-)
Since I still have the system up & running (at least the baremetal
one), I'm happy to try to answer any questions anyone might have, or to
run some quick experiments, if anyone is curious.
MicroOS as GNOME Desktop
========================
Installation
------------
Just grab it from:
https://en.opensuse.org/Kubic:Installation#Download
https://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/iso/openSUSE-MicroOS-DVD-x86_64-Cur...
And install it. Choose the ALPHA stage Desktop flavor.
I created a user, at the end of the install process. The username is 'test'.
Some Preliminary Configuration
------------------------------
Right after login:
# rm -Rf /var/cache/app-info
# transactional-update shell
# rpm -e --nodeps libzypp-plugin-appdata
# zypper al libzypp-plugin-appdata
# exit
# reboot
Right after reboot:
$ gsettings set org.gnome.software install-bundles-system-wide false
$ gsettings set org.gnome.software allow-updates false
$ gsettings set org.gnome.software download-updates false
$ gsettings set org.gnome.software enable-repos-dialog false
$ gsettings set org.gnome.software first-run true
$ flatpak remote-add --user --if-not-exists flathub https://flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo
And reboot again.
Some More (Personal) Tweaks
---------------------------
Password-less sudo for my user (test, in these examples):
# usermod -a -G wheel test
# echo "%wheel ALL = (root) NOPASSWD:ALL" > /etc/sudoers.d/wheel
It works.
About System Packages
=====================
Complete List of Packages I Added
---------------------------------
For these experiments. With transactional-update, of course.
https://kubic.opensuse.org/documentation/man-pages/transactional-update.8.ht...
Here's the list:
* bash-completion
* vim
* wget
* gnome-online-account
* gnome-control-center-goa
* gnome-shell-calendar
* gnome-disk-utility
* gnome-bluetooth
* chrome-gnome-shell
* unzip
* system-config-printer
* cups-client
* cups-filters
* OpenPrintingPPDs
* OpenPrintingPPDs-hpijs
* OpenPrintingPPDs-ghostscript
* manufacturer-PPDs
* gcr-ssh-askpass
* nfs-client
* autofs
(See following paragraph for specific reasons.)
And Some More Packages
----------------------
== Google chrome
No flatpak, AFAIK.
Installing on the base system... Rather not, but then what about <>, etc ?
Done, by adding the repo, importing the key and doing zypper in google-chrome-unstable inside a transactional-update shell.
At least dependencies are not terrible.
== NVIDIA Drivers
I added the NVIDIA repo for Tumbleweed and installed the RPMs in the system.
Brings in gcc, make and a lot of other stuff that I rather avoid having in the base system.
Well, "Thanks, NVIDIA"... I guess! :-( :-(
About Flatpaks
==============
Can be installed via GNOME Software or via cli:
$ flatpak install flathub org.openshot.OpenShot
Installed per-user, i.e., stuff go in:
$ test@Wayrath:~> ls $HOME/.var/app
$ com.github.tchx84.Flatseal io.github.arunsivaramanneo.GPUViewer org.gnome.Boxes org.gnome.Calendar org.gnome.Contacts org.gnome.Evolution org.gnome.seahorse.Application
$ test@Wayrath:~> ls .local/share/flatpak/app
com.valvesoftware.Steam org.gnome.Boxes org.gnome.Contacts org.gnome.seahorse.Application org.videolan.VLC
com.github.tchx84.Flatseal io.github.arunsivaramanneo.GPUViewer org.gnome.Calendar org.gnome.Evolution org.telegram.desktop
And nothing goes in /var/lib/flatpak :
$ ls /var/lib/flatpak/ -l
total 0
drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 70 apr 17 18:05 repo
Apps Properties
Capabilities and permissions of flatpak installed apps. Might need tweaking for some of them to work well (see later).
Tweaking of permissions, capabilities, etc, happens via:
* GNOME Settings, 'Applications' tab
* Flatseal, installable via flatpak. May be very useful, for getting some apps to work well
Firefox
-------
You will find it there, installed on the base system, with RPMs. Why?!?
it's handy to have a browser ready :-)
the flatpak only exists since very recently
In fact, FWIW, Fedora Silverblue does the same for now.
Removing it removes the patterns-microos-desktop-gnome. Oh, well...
Installing it from flathub works... But be aware that installing GNOME Shell extensions from it, will not work (see below).
Syncthing
---------
Just one thing I use for keeping my data in sync between workstation, laptop, file-server.
Works just fine ("Synchthing GTK" is the flatpak).
Seahorse
--------
A.k.a. GNOME Passwords & Keys. It seems to work.
Installed the flatpak (of course), copied my SSH and GPG key(ring)s, all good.
I needed to install packages to have the SSH agent and GNOME keyring interact nicely (see below).
SSH Keys & Agent
----------------
SSH keys seemed fine, and `ssh-add -l` worked (listed all my keys) since the beginning
But SSH to somewhere configured in .ssh/config does not work with "signing failed: agent refused operation", and with this in the logs:
apr 21 17:23:00 Wayrath gnome-keyring-daemon[1993]: the /usr/bin/ssh-add command failed: Child process exited with code 1
apr 21 17:23:00 Wayrath gnome-keyring-daemon[1993]: ssh_askpass: exec(/usr/lib/gcr-ssh-askpass): No such file or directory
After installing gcr-ssh-askpass, it now works!
Evolution (with GPG)
--------------------
Works. For instance, if setting up a GMAIL account entirely inside it (i.e., without relying on GNOME Online Accounts), all is fine, including contacts and calendars.
With gnome-online-account and gnome-control-center-goa installed, setting up an account in GNOME Online Accounts also works (i.e., you see it in Evolution).
I could sign and encrypt email with GPG just fine.
Calendar and Contacts
---------------------
They work, but (at least for me) only:
* after installing gnome-shell-calendar, which has evolution-data-server as a dependency, and might have done the trick
* after I did some tweaking, related to DBus, in Flatseal
Steam
-----
Installed, downloaded a game and played. Works fine. :-D
NVIDIA Drivers
--------------
I didn't install this runtime explicitly, but I guess some other flatpak did, as a dependency:
$ test@Wayrath:~> flatpak list|grep nvidia
nvidia-440-82 org.freedesktop.Platform.GL.nvidia-440-82 1.4 user
nvidia-440-82 org.freedesktop.Platform.GL32.nvidia-440-82 1.4 user
Which is actually the one matching the RPMs I have:
$ test@Wayrath:~> rpm -qa|grep nvidia.*G05
nvidia-gfxG05-kmp-default-440.82_k5.6.2_1-25.4.x86_64
nvidia-computeG05-440.82-25.1.x86_64
x11-video-nvidiaG05-440.82-25.1.x86_64
Cool! :-D
autofs
------
Worked for me.
Other Features & Configurations
===============================
Printing
--------
After installing CUPS, system-config-printers and the PPDs packages:
* my network printer were auto-detected
* drivers were found and installed automatically
* test pages can be printed
Not fully functional via GNOME Control Center's Printers tab.
But works perfectly with system-config-printer.
(I kind of used the big hammer with PPD packages, I know. Could have been more fine grained, but I was in hurry.)
GNOME Startup Applications
--------------------------
Works. You can start both system programs and flatpaks, of course.
GNOME Online Accounts
---------------------
For having everything, including contacts and calendar apps and also seeing the events in the GNOME Shell calendar "applet", I needed to:
* install the packages I already mentioned: gnome-online-accounts, gnome-control-center-goa, gnome-shell-calendar. They come with some dependencies (e.g., evolution-data-server stuff)
* grant to the Contacts and Calendar apps some more permissions --about DBus-- via Flatseal (which makes sense, I guess)
* restart the session (or reboot)
Video Codecs
------------
Codec test Web page, http://demo.nimius.net/video_test/ :
* worked ok on "system Firefox"
* worked ok on "system Chrome"
* worked ok on "flatpak Firefox"
This is in all cases, except MPEG4. But that does not work on my Tumbleweed with all codecs from Packman, etc
My home Plex server:
* in Firefox (both system and flatpak), asked me to enable DRM. After that, the videos I tried worked fine
* in Chorme, the videos I tried worked fine
I tried a few video files I have on my local filesystem and all of them worked. Well, not all of them were playable with Totem, but they were with VLC.
GNOME Shell Extensions
----------------------
Situation varies:
* "system Firefox": as soon as chrome-gnome-shell is installed, all good
* "system Chrome": as soon as chrome-gnome-shell is installed, all good
* flatpak Firefox: they don't work, as "connector is not detected". Tried playing with flatpak permissions and settings but could not make it function.
* via GNOME Software: they can be installed and (some of them) work. But not all the ones I use are available there (e.g., Topiconsfix)
Best solution for me is using the "system" browser, i.e., the browser installed on the system with transactional-update, either Chrome or Firefox.
Hiccups
=======
Too Many Passowrds
------------------
I checked "Make this user the administrator" during install.
I have configured passwordless sudo (via group wheel).
Still asked for password a lot of times, e.g.:
* at login ("refreshing system software database")
* at reboot / shutdown ("authentication is required to reboot the system")
Seeing this in logs:
apr 21 14:44:04 Wayrath polkit-agent-helper-1[2194]: gkr-pam: unable to locate daemon control file
apr 21 14:49:27 Wayrath polkit-agent-helper-1[4831]: gkr-pam: unable to locate daemon control file
Disk Partitioning
-----------------
I went pretty much with default partitioning.
Two installs:
* 40 GB, 15G root, 25G var
- 1,4G free on root, 25G free on var !!!
* 60 GB, 37G root, 24G var
- 15G free on root, 22G free on var
So, beware of provisioning enouch space for /home, as a lot of stuff goes there.
Quick Comparison: Fedora Silverblue
===================================
System Packages
---------------
Counted around 1200 rpms, installed out of the box. In my MicroOS (with the ones I added), I have 1100... but of course this does not mean much.
Some examples:
* NetworkManager-openvpn is (actually 18 NetworkManager-foobar packages are!) there out of the box
* SAMBA is there (I haven't tested it on MicroOS, but I guess it wouldn't work)
* CUPS and some PPDs packages installed by default
* bluez and gnome-bluetooth are there out of the box
* httpd-2.4.43-1.fc31.x86_64 and httpd-tools-2.4.43-1.fc31.x86_64 are there out of the box. Seriously, they are! :-O
* ...
Issues I had to workaround:
* gnome-online-accounts is there already, apps work (needs one reboot or two)
* ssh-agent and also SSH askpass works out of the box (they have gcr-base-3.34.0-1.fc31.x86_64 and gcr-3.34.0-1.fc31.x86_64)
* evolution-data-server is there out of the box
* chrome-gnome-shell is there by default
Flatpaks
--------
They, by default, use their own:
$ flatpak remotes
Name Options
fedora system,oci
E.g., you can't install Evolution.
One can add flathub, of course:
$ flatpak remote-add --if-not-exists flathub https://flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo
NB. Asks for root/sudo password
Some flatpaks go in $HOME/.var and $HOME/.local/share/... :
$ ls .var/app/ -l
total 8
drwxr-xr-x. 5 Test Test 4096 18 apr 11.10 org.gnome.Contacts
drwxr-xr-x. 5 Test Test 4096 18 apr 11.07 org.gnome.Geary
Some others go in /var/lib/flatpack/app :
$ ls /var/lib/flatpak/app -l
total 40
drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 11.59 org.geany.Geany
drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 10.50 org.gnome.Calendar
drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 10.50 org.gnome.Contacts
drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 10.51 org.gnome.Epiphany
drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 10.50 org.gnome.Evince
drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 10.50 org.gnome.Geary
drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 02.53 org.gnome.gedit
drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 11.59 org.gnome.gitg
drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 12.25 org.gnome.Screenshot
drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 18.38 org.gnome.Weather
I don't get the idea... I.e., I wouldn't know how to tell --let alone how to decide-- what goes where, etc (but I know very few about flatpak).
I installed Evolution from flathub. It went in /var/lib/flatpack.
System RPMs Update
------------------
Seems possible to update the system via GNOME Software:
* $ rpm -qa|grep vim-minimal
vim-minimal-8.2.525-1.fc31.x86_64
* GNOME Software warns me that there are updates
* I click on "Restart & Update"
* $ rpm -qa|grep vim-minimal
vim-minimal-8.2.587-1.fc31.x86_64
I don't think we can do that (yet).
Disk Partitioning
-----------------
64G disk:
1.1G boot
38G /dev/fedora/root
19G /dev/fedora/home
6.4G swap
Not showing utilization, as I only installed a couple of packages, so it won't be comparable.
--
Dario Faggioli, Ph.D
http://about.me/dario.faggioli
Virtualization Software Engineer
SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/
-------------------------------------------------------------------
<
Interesting topic.
* SAMBA is there (I haven't tested it on MicroOS, but I guess it wouldn't work) Samba is not working on MicroOS?
AFAIK Fedora Silverblue has other disadvantages like some brother
printer drivers that are distributed from their
site not working due to the ostree overlaying, these scenarios should
work on Kubic.
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/trying-to-install-a-printer-driver-fo...
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 11:03 AM Dario Faggioli
Hello,
During this last week, I've installed MicroOS with its GNOME Desktop flavour a few times, both in VMs and on actual workstations, in order to test how it would work for me.
I have a report of all that, which I'm both including and attaching to this mail (sorry for the poor formatting and long lines, it's converted from a webpage... I am also attaching it, hoping it's more readable in that format).
I also quickly tested Fedora Silverblue, and I've added some notes about the differences I think are the most relevant.
There are some hiccups but, you know what, I'm actually *keeping* it on my workstation. ;-P
I also have a laptop, and I don't have time to re-install it right now... but I'm looking forward to be able to put it there to, especially if we manage to solve some of the issues. :-)
Since I still have the system up & running (at least the baremetal one), I'm happy to try to answer any questions anyone might have, or to run some quick experiments, if anyone is curious.
MicroOS as GNOME Desktop ========================
Installation ------------ Just grab it from:
https://en.opensuse.org/Kubic:Installation#Download https://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/iso/openSUSE-MicroOS-DVD-x86_64-Cur...
And install it. Choose the ALPHA stage Desktop flavor.
I created a user, at the end of the install process. The username is 'test'.
Some Preliminary Configuration ------------------------------
Right after login:
# rm -Rf /var/cache/app-info # transactional-update shell # rpm -e --nodeps libzypp-plugin-appdata # zypper al libzypp-plugin-appdata # exit # reboot
Right after reboot:
$ gsettings set org.gnome.software install-bundles-system-wide false $ gsettings set org.gnome.software allow-updates false $ gsettings set org.gnome.software download-updates false $ gsettings set org.gnome.software enable-repos-dialog false $ gsettings set org.gnome.software first-run true
$ flatpak remote-add --user --if-not-exists flathub https://flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo
And reboot again.
Some More (Personal) Tweaks ---------------------------
Password-less sudo for my user (test, in these examples):
# usermod -a -G wheel test # echo "%wheel ALL = (root) NOPASSWD:ALL" > /etc/sudoers.d/wheel
It works.
About System Packages =====================
Complete List of Packages I Added ---------------------------------
For these experiments. With transactional-update, of course.
https://kubic.opensuse.org/documentation/man-pages/transactional-update.8.ht...
Here's the list: * bash-completion * vim * wget * gnome-online-account * gnome-control-center-goa * gnome-shell-calendar * gnome-disk-utility * gnome-bluetooth * chrome-gnome-shell * unzip * system-config-printer * cups-client * cups-filters * OpenPrintingPPDs * OpenPrintingPPDs-hpijs * OpenPrintingPPDs-ghostscript * manufacturer-PPDs * gcr-ssh-askpass * nfs-client * autofs
(See following paragraph for specific reasons.)
And Some More Packages ----------------------
== Google chrome
No flatpak, AFAIK.
Installing on the base system... Rather not, but then what about <>, etc ?
Done, by adding the repo, importing the key and doing zypper in google-chrome-unstable inside a transactional-update shell.
At least dependencies are not terrible.
== NVIDIA Drivers
I added the NVIDIA repo for Tumbleweed and installed the RPMs in the system.
Brings in gcc, make and a lot of other stuff that I rather avoid having in the base system.
Well, "Thanks, NVIDIA"... I guess! :-( :-(
About Flatpaks ==============
Can be installed via GNOME Software or via cli:
$ flatpak install flathub org.openshot.OpenShot
Installed per-user, i.e., stuff go in:
$ test@Wayrath:~> ls $HOME/.var/app $ com.github.tchx84.Flatseal io.github.arunsivaramanneo.GPUViewer org.gnome.Boxes org.gnome.Calendar org.gnome.Contacts org.gnome.Evolution org.gnome.seahorse.Application $ test@Wayrath:~> ls .local/share/flatpak/app com.valvesoftware.Steam org.gnome.Boxes org.gnome.Contacts org.gnome.seahorse.Application org.videolan.VLC com.github.tchx84.Flatseal io.github.arunsivaramanneo.GPUViewer org.gnome.Calendar org.gnome.Evolution org.telegram.desktop And nothing goes in /var/lib/flatpak :
$ ls /var/lib/flatpak/ -l total 0 drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 70 apr 17 18:05 repo Apps Properties Capabilities and permissions of flatpak installed apps. Might need tweaking for some of them to work well (see later).
Tweaking of permissions, capabilities, etc, happens via: * GNOME Settings, 'Applications' tab * Flatseal, installable via flatpak. May be very useful, for getting some apps to work well
Firefox -------
You will find it there, installed on the base system, with RPMs. Why?!?
it's handy to have a browser ready :-) the flatpak only exists since very recently
In fact, FWIW, Fedora Silverblue does the same for now.
Removing it removes the patterns-microos-desktop-gnome. Oh, well...
Installing it from flathub works... But be aware that installing GNOME Shell extensions from it, will not work (see below).
Syncthing ---------
Just one thing I use for keeping my data in sync between workstation, laptop, file-server.
Works just fine ("Synchthing GTK" is the flatpak).
Seahorse --------
A.k.a. GNOME Passwords & Keys. It seems to work.
Installed the flatpak (of course), copied my SSH and GPG key(ring)s, all good.
I needed to install packages to have the SSH agent and GNOME keyring interact nicely (see below).
SSH Keys & Agent ----------------
SSH keys seemed fine, and `ssh-add -l` worked (listed all my keys) since the beginning
But SSH to somewhere configured in .ssh/config does not work with "signing failed: agent refused operation", and with this in the logs:
apr 21 17:23:00 Wayrath gnome-keyring-daemon[1993]: the /usr/bin/ssh-add command failed: Child process exited with code 1 apr 21 17:23:00 Wayrath gnome-keyring-daemon[1993]: ssh_askpass: exec(/usr/lib/gcr-ssh-askpass): No such file or directory
After installing gcr-ssh-askpass, it now works!
Evolution (with GPG) --------------------
Works. For instance, if setting up a GMAIL account entirely inside it (i.e., without relying on GNOME Online Accounts), all is fine, including contacts and calendars.
With gnome-online-account and gnome-control-center-goa installed, setting up an account in GNOME Online Accounts also works (i.e., you see it in Evolution).
I could sign and encrypt email with GPG just fine.
Calendar and Contacts ---------------------
They work, but (at least for me) only: * after installing gnome-shell-calendar, which has evolution-data-server as a dependency, and might have done the trick * after I did some tweaking, related to DBus, in Flatseal
Steam -----
Installed, downloaded a game and played. Works fine. :-D
NVIDIA Drivers --------------
I didn't install this runtime explicitly, but I guess some other flatpak did, as a dependency:
$ test@Wayrath:~> flatpak list|grep nvidia nvidia-440-82 org.freedesktop.Platform.GL.nvidia-440-82 1.4 user nvidia-440-82 org.freedesktop.Platform.GL32.nvidia-440-82 1.4 user Which is actually the one matching the RPMs I have:
$ test@Wayrath:~> rpm -qa|grep nvidia.*G05 nvidia-gfxG05-kmp-default-440.82_k5.6.2_1-25.4.x86_64 nvidia-computeG05-440.82-25.1.x86_64 x11-video-nvidiaG05-440.82-25.1.x86_64
Cool! :-D
autofs ------
Worked for me.
Other Features & Configurations ===============================
Printing --------
After installing CUPS, system-config-printers and the PPDs packages: * my network printer were auto-detected * drivers were found and installed automatically * test pages can be printed
Not fully functional via GNOME Control Center's Printers tab. But works perfectly with system-config-printer.
(I kind of used the big hammer with PPD packages, I know. Could have been more fine grained, but I was in hurry.)
GNOME Startup Applications --------------------------
Works. You can start both system programs and flatpaks, of course.
GNOME Online Accounts ---------------------
For having everything, including contacts and calendar apps and also seeing the events in the GNOME Shell calendar "applet", I needed to: * install the packages I already mentioned: gnome-online-accounts, gnome-control-center-goa, gnome-shell-calendar. They come with some dependencies (e.g., evolution-data-server stuff) * grant to the Contacts and Calendar apps some more permissions --about DBus-- via Flatseal (which makes sense, I guess) * restart the session (or reboot)
Video Codecs ------------
Codec test Web page, http://demo.nimius.net/video_test/ : * worked ok on "system Firefox" * worked ok on "system Chrome" * worked ok on "flatpak Firefox"
This is in all cases, except MPEG4. But that does not work on my Tumbleweed with all codecs from Packman, etc
My home Plex server: * in Firefox (both system and flatpak), asked me to enable DRM. After that, the videos I tried worked fine * in Chorme, the videos I tried worked fine
I tried a few video files I have on my local filesystem and all of them worked. Well, not all of them were playable with Totem, but they were with VLC.
GNOME Shell Extensions ----------------------
Situation varies: * "system Firefox": as soon as chrome-gnome-shell is installed, all good * "system Chrome": as soon as chrome-gnome-shell is installed, all good * flatpak Firefox: they don't work, as "connector is not detected". Tried playing with flatpak permissions and settings but could not make it function. * via GNOME Software: they can be installed and (some of them) work. But not all the ones I use are available there (e.g., Topiconsfix)
Best solution for me is using the "system" browser, i.e., the browser installed on the system with transactional-update, either Chrome or Firefox.
Hiccups =======
Too Many Passowrds ------------------
I checked "Make this user the administrator" during install.
I have configured passwordless sudo (via group wheel).
Still asked for password a lot of times, e.g.: * at login ("refreshing system software database") * at reboot / shutdown ("authentication is required to reboot the system")
Seeing this in logs: apr 21 14:44:04 Wayrath polkit-agent-helper-1[2194]: gkr-pam: unable to locate daemon control file apr 21 14:49:27 Wayrath polkit-agent-helper-1[4831]: gkr-pam: unable to locate daemon control file
Disk Partitioning -----------------
I went pretty much with default partitioning.
Two installs: * 40 GB, 15G root, 25G var - 1,4G free on root, 25G free on var !!! * 60 GB, 37G root, 24G var - 15G free on root, 22G free on var
So, beware of provisioning enouch space for /home, as a lot of stuff goes there.
Quick Comparison: Fedora Silverblue ===================================
System Packages ---------------
Counted around 1200 rpms, installed out of the box. In my MicroOS (with the ones I added), I have 1100... but of course this does not mean much.
Some examples: * NetworkManager-openvpn is (actually 18 NetworkManager-foobar packages are!) there out of the box * SAMBA is there (I haven't tested it on MicroOS, but I guess it wouldn't work) * CUPS and some PPDs packages installed by default * bluez and gnome-bluetooth are there out of the box * httpd-2.4.43-1.fc31.x86_64 and httpd-tools-2.4.43-1.fc31.x86_64 are there out of the box. Seriously, they are! :-O * ...
Issues I had to workaround: * gnome-online-accounts is there already, apps work (needs one reboot or two) * ssh-agent and also SSH askpass works out of the box (they have gcr-base-3.34.0-1.fc31.x86_64 and gcr-3.34.0-1.fc31.x86_64) * evolution-data-server is there out of the box * chrome-gnome-shell is there by default
Flatpaks --------
They, by default, use their own:
$ flatpak remotes Name Options fedora system,oci E.g., you can't install Evolution.
One can add flathub, of course:
$ flatpak remote-add --if-not-exists flathub https://flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo NB. Asks for root/sudo password
Some flatpaks go in $HOME/.var and $HOME/.local/share/... :
$ ls .var/app/ -l total 8 drwxr-xr-x. 5 Test Test 4096 18 apr 11.10 org.gnome.Contacts drwxr-xr-x. 5 Test Test 4096 18 apr 11.07 org.gnome.Geary Some others go in /var/lib/flatpack/app :
$ ls /var/lib/flatpak/app -l total 40 drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 11.59 org.geany.Geany drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 10.50 org.gnome.Calendar drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 10.50 org.gnome.Contacts drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 10.51 org.gnome.Epiphany drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 10.50 org.gnome.Evince drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 10.50 org.gnome.Geary drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 02.53 org.gnome.gedit drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 11.59 org.gnome.gitg drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 12.25 org.gnome.Screenshot drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 18 apr 18.38 org.gnome.Weather I don't get the idea... I.e., I wouldn't know how to tell --let alone how to decide-- what goes where, etc (but I know very few about flatpak).
I installed Evolution from flathub. It went in /var/lib/flatpack.
System RPMs Update ------------------
Seems possible to update the system via GNOME Software: * $ rpm -qa|grep vim-minimal vim-minimal-8.2.525-1.fc31.x86_64 * GNOME Software warns me that there are updates * I click on "Restart & Update" * $ rpm -qa|grep vim-minimal vim-minimal-8.2.587-1.fc31.x86_64
I don't think we can do that (yet).
Disk Partitioning -----------------
64G disk: 1.1G boot 38G /dev/fedora/root 19G /dev/fedora/home 6.4G swap
Not showing utilization, as I only installed a couple of packages, so it won't be comparable.
-- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <
> (Raistlin Majere)
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kubic+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kubic+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2020-04-23 at 11:41 +0300, Damian Ivanov wrote:
Interesting topic.
* SAMBA is there (I haven't tested it on MicroOS, but I guess it wouldn't work) Samba is not working on MicroOS?
As said, I haven't tested it. I will try to... It should be easy enough to do it, by installing the packages and enabling the service on one or two others Linux boxes in my home network. I don't have any Windows machine, though. What I meant with "I guess it wouldn't work" is that it probably won't out of the box, right after install, because the necessary RPMs are not there. I suspect it to work as soon as enough of them will be installed. But I'll let know more if/when I verify this.
AFAIK Fedora Silverblue has other disadvantages like some brother printer drivers that are distributed from their site not working due to the ostree overlaying, these scenarios should work on Kubic. https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/trying-to-install-a-printer-driver-fo...
I have no such printer, but I decided to give it a quick try, at least
to installing the RPMs.
test@Wayrath-uos:~> sudo transactional-update --continue pkg install ./hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm ./hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm
Checking for newer version.
transactional-update 2.21.1 started
Options: --continue pkg install ./hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm ./hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm
Separate /var detected.
/etc on overlayfs detected.
Syncing /etc of oldest snapshot /.snapshots/5/snapshot as base into new snapshot /.snapshots/21/snapshot
Calling zypper install
Loading repository data...
Reading installed packages...
Resolving package dependencies...
The following 2 NEW packages are going to be installed:
hl1110cupswrapper hl1110lpr
2 new packages to install.
Overall download size: 55,5 KiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 673,4 KiB will be used.
Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y):
Checking for file conflicts: [.....done]
Warning: 2 packages had to be excluded from file conflicts check because they are not yet downloaded.
Note: Checking for file conflicts requires not installed packages to be downloaded in advance in
order to access their file lists. See option '--download-in-advance / --dry-run --download-only'
in the zypper manual page for details.
Retrieving package hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386 (1/2), 37,1 KiB (470,4 KiB unpacked)
hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm:
Package is not signed!
hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386 (Plain RPM files cache): Signature verification failed [6-File is unsigned]
Abort, retry, ignore? [a/r/i] (a): i
(1/2) Installing: hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386 [........done]
Additional rpm output:
/var/tmp/rpm-tmp.oYxxeF: line 2: /opt/brother/Printers/HL1110/inf/braddprinter: No such file or directory
Retrieving package hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386 (2/2), 18,5 KiB (203,0 KiB unpacked)
hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm:
Package is not signed!
hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386 (Plain RPM files cache): Signature verification failed [6-File is unsigned]
Abort, retry, ignore? [a/r/i] (a): i
(2/2) Installing: hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386 [.......done]
Additional rpm output:
lpinfo: Unauthorized
lpadmin -p HL1110 -E -v usb://dev/usb/lp0 -P /usr/share/ppd/brother/brother-HL1110-cups-en.ppd
lpadmin: Printer drivers are deprecated and will stop working in a future version of CUPS.
Password for root on localhost?
After reboot, I see stuff in /opt
test@Wayrath-uos:~> ls /opt/brother/Printers/HL1110/
cupswrapper inf lpd
And:
test@Wayrath-uos:~> rpm -qa|grep hl
hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386
hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386
That's as far as I can get, I'm afraid... but I guess we can call it a
success? :-)
Regards
--
Dario Faggioli, Ph.D
http://about.me/dario.faggioli
Virtualization Software Engineer
SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/
-------------------------------------------------------------------
<
I suspect it to work as soon as enough of them will be installed. I understand now (-: I guessed that was what you meant but I haven't made the switch to Kubic now, though I have had used Silverblue for quite some time.
Thanks for trying with the printer driver to verify this!
I have no such printer either, should be a success though indeed.
I dodge a bullet with Fedora anyway, but I would like to go immutable again.
(The ostree way has many drawbacks for example no disk utility can
really find out what is using up your disk space reliably)
(and some other corner case issue, that completely break the corner case)
Something I am curious of is if there is (for example you can install
Silveblue into a normal Fedora installation and than basically migrate
to it),
a way to turn your Tumbleweed installation into an immutable Kubic.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:44 PM Dario Faggioli
On Thu, 2020-04-23 at 11:41 +0300, Damian Ivanov wrote:
Interesting topic.
* SAMBA is there (I haven't tested it on MicroOS, but I guess it wouldn't work) Samba is not working on MicroOS?
As said, I haven't tested it. I will try to... It should be easy enough to do it, by installing the packages and enabling the service on one or two others Linux boxes in my home network.
I don't have any Windows machine, though.
What I meant with "I guess it wouldn't work" is that it probably won't out of the box, right after install, because the necessary RPMs are not there.
I suspect it to work as soon as enough of them will be installed.
But I'll let know more if/when I verify this.
AFAIK Fedora Silverblue has other disadvantages like some brother printer drivers that are distributed from their site not working due to the ostree overlaying, these scenarios should work on Kubic. https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/trying-to-install-a-printer-driver-fo...
I have no such printer, but I decided to give it a quick try, at least to installing the RPMs.
test@Wayrath-uos:~> sudo transactional-update --continue pkg install ./hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm ./hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm Checking for newer version. transactional-update 2.21.1 started Options: --continue pkg install ./hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm ./hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm Separate /var detected. /etc on overlayfs detected. Syncing /etc of oldest snapshot /.snapshots/5/snapshot as base into new snapshot /.snapshots/21/snapshot Calling zypper install Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies...
The following 2 NEW packages are going to be installed: hl1110cupswrapper hl1110lpr
2 new packages to install. Overall download size: 55,5 KiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 673,4 KiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y):
Checking for file conflicts: [.....done] Warning: 2 packages had to be excluded from file conflicts check because they are not yet downloaded.
Note: Checking for file conflicts requires not installed packages to be downloaded in advance in order to access their file lists. See option '--download-in-advance / --dry-run --download-only' in the zypper manual page for details.
Retrieving package hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386 (1/2), 37,1 KiB (470,4 KiB unpacked) hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm: Package is not signed!
hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386 (Plain RPM files cache): Signature verification failed [6-File is unsigned] Abort, retry, ignore? [a/r/i] (a): i (1/2) Installing: hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386 [........done] Additional rpm output: /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.oYxxeF: line 2: /opt/brother/Printers/HL1110/inf/braddprinter: No such file or directory
Retrieving package hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386 (2/2), 18,5 KiB (203,0 KiB unpacked) hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386.rpm: Package is not signed!
hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386 (Plain RPM files cache): Signature verification failed [6-File is unsigned] Abort, retry, ignore? [a/r/i] (a): i (2/2) Installing: hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386 [.......done] Additional rpm output: lpinfo: Unauthorized lpadmin -p HL1110 -E -v usb://dev/usb/lp0 -P /usr/share/ppd/brother/brother-HL1110-cups-en.ppd lpadmin: Printer drivers are deprecated and will stop working in a future version of CUPS. Password for root on localhost?
After reboot, I see stuff in /opt
test@Wayrath-uos:~> ls /opt/brother/Printers/HL1110/ cupswrapper inf lpd
And:
test@Wayrath-uos:~> rpm -qa|grep hl hl1110cupswrapper-3.0.1-1.i386 hl1110lpr-3.0.1-1.i386
That's as far as I can get, I'm afraid... but I guess we can call it a success? :-)
Regards -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <
> (Raistlin Majere)
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kubic+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kubic+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2020-04-23 at 10:03 +0200, Dario Faggioli wrote:
Hello,
During this last week, I've installed MicroOS with its GNOME Desktop flavour a few times, both in VMs and on actual workstations, in order to test how it would work for me.
I have a report of all that, which I'm both including and attaching to this mail (sorry for the poor formatting and long lines, it's converted from a webpage... I am also attaching it, hoping it's more readable in that format).
I also quickly tested Fedora Silverblue, and I've added some notes about the differences I think are the most relevant.
There are some hiccups but, you know what, I'm actually *keeping* it on my workstation. ;-P
I also have a laptop, and I don't have time to re-install it right now... but I'm looking forward to be able to put it there to, especially if we manage to solve some of the issues. :-)
Since I still have the system up & running (at least the baremetal one), I'm happy to try to answer any questions anyone might have, or to run some quick experiments, if anyone is curious.
Thanks for this awesome report, thoughts of my own are below.
MicroOS as GNOME Desktop ========================
Installation ------------ Just grab it from:
https://en.opensuse.org/Kubic:Installation#Download https://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/iso/openSUSE-MicroOS-DVD-x86_64-Cur...
And install it. Choose the ALPHA stage Desktop flavor.
I created a user, at the end of the install process. The username is 'test'.
Some Preliminary Configuration ------------------------------
Right after login:
# rm -Rf /var/cache/app-info # transactional-update shell # rpm -e --nodeps libzypp-plugin-appdata # zypper al libzypp-plugin-appdata # exit # reboot
Right after reboot:
$ gsettings set org.gnome.software install-bundles-system-wide false $ gsettings set org.gnome.software allow-updates false $ gsettings set org.gnome.software download-updates false $ gsettings set org.gnome.software enable-repos-dialog false $ gsettings set org.gnome.software first-run true
$ flatpak remote-add --user --if-not-exists flathub https://flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo
And reboot again.
It would be GREAT if someone contributed packages+pattern changes that would make hese steps unncessary
Firefox -------
You will find it there, installed on the base system, with RPMs. Why?!?
it's handy to have a browser ready :-) the flatpak only exists since very recently
In fact, FWIW, Fedora Silverblue does the same for now.
Removing it removes the patterns-microos-desktop-gnome. Oh, well...
Installing it from flathub works... But be aware that installing GNOME Shell extensions from it, will not work (see below).
Personally speaking I'd prefer to not include any user-facing apps if Flatpaks exist for them, so now there is a flatpak for firefox I'd accept a submit request to patterns-microOS to remove firefox from the desktop pattern
GNOME Online Accounts ---------------------
For having everything, including contacts and calendar apps and also seeing the events in the GNOME Shell calendar "applet", I needed to: * install the packages I already mentioned: gnome-online-accounts, gnome-control-center-goa, gnome-shell-calendar. They come with some dependencies (e.g., evolution-data-server stuff) * grant to the Contacts and Calendar apps some more permissions -- about DBus-- via Flatseal (which makes sense, I guess) * restart the session (or reboot)
I guess we should probably add these to the desktop pattern?
Hiccups =======
Too Many Passowrds ------------------
I checked "Make this user the administrator" during install.
I have configured passwordless sudo (via group wheel).
Still asked for password a lot of times, e.g.: * at login ("refreshing system software database") * at reboot / shutdown ("authentication is required to reboot the system")
Seeing this in logs: apr 21 14:44:04 Wayrath polkit-agent-helper-1[2194]: gkr-pam: unable to locate daemon control file apr 21 14:49:27 Wayrath polkit-agent-helper-1[4831]: gkr-pam: unable to locate daemon control file
Yeah, the excessive passwords (due to missing/incomplete/invalid polkit config I believe) is the #1 reason why I threw the word 'ALPHA' on the system role. I haven't had the time to look at it yet but I really would love if it someone did :)
Disk Partitioning -----------------
I went pretty much with default partitioning.
Two installs: * 40 GB, 15G root, 25G var - 1,4G free on root, 25G free on var !!! * 60 GB, 37G root, 24G var - 15G free on root, 22G free on var
So, beware of provisioning enouch space for /home, as a lot of stuff goes there.
Hmm, we could add a seperate partition for /home or change the ratios required for /root - what would you prefer?
Quick Comparison: Fedora Silverblue ===================================
System Packages ---------------
Counted around 1200 rpms, installed out of the box. In my MicroOS (with the ones I added), I have 1100... but of course this does not mean much.
Some examples: * NetworkManager-openvpn is (actually 18 NetworkManager-foobar packages are!) there out of the box * SAMBA is there (I haven't tested it on MicroOS, but I guess it wouldn't work) * CUPS and some PPDs packages installed by default * bluez and gnome-bluetooth are there out of the box * httpd-2.4.43-1.fc31.x86_64 and httpd-tools-2.4.43-1.fc31.x86_64 are there out of the box. Seriously, they are! :-O * ...
Issues I had to workaround: * gnome-online-accounts is there already, apps work (needs one reboot or two) * ssh-agent and also SSH askpass works out of the box (they have gcr-base-3.34.0-1.fc31.x86_64 and gcr-3.34.0-1.fc31.x86_64) * evolution-data-server is there out of the box * chrome-gnome-shell is there by default
Interesting comparision, and I'll stick to my tune, I'll accept any submissions that go in the direction of feature parity with Silverblue ;) Regards, Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kubic+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kubic+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2020-04-23 at 10:53 +0200, Richard Brown wrote:
On Thu, 2020-04-23 at 10:03 +0200, Dario Faggioli wrote:
Thanks for this awesome report, thoughts of my own are below.
Yeah, it was fun... Thanks for having a look. :-)
Installing it from flathub works... But be aware that installing GNOME Shell extensions from it, will not work (see below).
Personally speaking I'd prefer to not include any user-facing apps if Flatpaks exist for them, so now there is a flatpak for firefox I'd accept a submit request to patterns-microOS to remove firefox from the desktop pattern
Agreed. And as far as I can see, it's already gone. :-P
GNOME Online Accounts ---------------------
For having everything, including contacts and calendar apps and also seeing the events in the GNOME Shell calendar "applet", I needed to: * install the packages I already mentioned: gnome-online-accounts, gnome-control-center-goa, gnome-shell-calendar. They come with some dependencies (e.g., evolution-data-server stuff) * grant to the Contacts and Calendar apps some more permissions -- about DBus-- via Flatseal (which makes sense, I guess) * restart the session (or reboot)
I guess we should probably add these to the desktop pattern?
I think we should, indeed. SR submitted. My first for this project, so if I've done some stupid mistake, point them to me, and I'll try again. gcr-ssh-askpass, for having the ssh-agent properly working in presence of gnome-keyring is also pretty important, IMO. If the SR for the calendaring stuff goes well, I'll send another for it. About the other packages I manually installed for doing these tests, I don't know. I guess, for instance, CUPS, it's reasonable to assume that it should be there in a Desktop setup. Perhaps not with all the possible PPDs packages we have in the repositories, though... not sure. Manual pages and bash-completion are other things that I personally find quite indispensable. But should they just always be there? If not, should they really depend on the GNOME Desktop pattern or on some other one?
Too Many Passowrds ------------------
I checked "Make this user the administrator" during install.
I have configured passwordless sudo (via group wheel).
Still asked for password a lot of times, e.g.: * at login ("refreshing system software database") * at reboot / shutdown ("authentication is required to reboot the system")
Yeah, the excessive passwords (due to missing/incomplete/invalid polkit config I believe) is the #1 reason why I threw the word 'ALPHA' on the system role. I haven't had the time to look at it yet but I really would love if it someone did :)
Indeed. I'll see about that, but I also know next to nothing about how polkit is configured and works.
Disk Partitioning -----------------
I went pretty much with default partitioning.
Two installs: * 40 GB, 15G root, 25G var - 1,4G free on root, 25G free on var !!! * 60 GB, 37G root, 24G var - 15G free on root, 22G free on var
So, beware of provisioning enouch space for /home, as a lot of stuff goes there.
Hmm, we could add a seperate partition for /home or change the ratios required for /root - what would you prefer?
I personally don't like setups with separate /home partitions. Even less so when we have and can use BTRFS subvolumes. Separate partitions force me to think "how much space will I need for these on this system?" which is something I hate doing, because I always get it wrong. So I'd go for the ratio changing approach. I probably don't have enough data for being super sure, but my gut feel is that on a typical single user Desktop install, the "stress" on the /var partition would be pretty low. BTW, just curious, how big of a nonsense would it be to use a subvolume for /var too?
Quick Comparison: Fedora Silverblue ===================================
[...]
Some examples: * NetworkManager-openvpn is (actually 18 NetworkManager-foobar packages are!) there out of the box * SAMBA is there (I haven't tested it on MicroOS, but I guess it wouldn't work) * CUPS and some PPDs packages installed by default * bluez and gnome-bluetooth are there out of the box * httpd-2.4.43-1.fc31.x86_64 and httpd-tools-2.4.43-1.fc31.x86_64 are there out of the box. Seriously, they are! :-O * ...
Issues I had to workaround: * gnome-online-accounts is there already, apps work (needs one reboot or two) * ssh-agent and also SSH askpass works out of the box (they have gcr-base-3.34.0-1.fc31.x86_64 and gcr-3.34.0-1.fc31.x86_64) * evolution-data-server is there out of the box * chrome-gnome-shell is there by default
Interesting comparision, and I'll stick to my tune, I'll accept any submissions that go in the direction of feature parity with Silverblue ;)
Ok, noted.
I'll try to look more into the differences and try to come up with a
list of packages that it would make sense to add in order to achieve
that.
Thanks and Regards
--
Dario Faggioli, Ph.D
http://about.me/dario.faggioli
Virtualization Software Engineer
SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/
-------------------------------------------------------------------
<
On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 at 18:40, Dario Faggioli
I guess we should probably add these to the desktop pattern?
I think we should, indeed. SR submitted. My first for this project, so if I've done some stupid mistake, point them to me, and I'll try again.
gcr-ssh-askpass, for having the ssh-agent properly working in presence of gnome-keyring is also pretty important, IMO. If the SR for the calendaring stuff goes well, I'll send another for it.
The SR looked perfect to me, it's on the way to Factory where OBS and openQA will confirm if we were right or not ;)
About the other packages I manually installed for doing these tests, I don't know. I guess, for instance, CUPS, it's reasonable to assume that it should be there in a Desktop setup. Perhaps not with all the possible PPDs packages we have in the repositories, though... not sure.
Manual pages and bash-completion are other things that I personally find quite indispensable. But should they just always be there? If not, should they really depend on the GNOME Desktop pattern or on some other one?
The general philosophy with MicroOS is that a deployed MicroOS installation is designed to do 'just one job' and that the installed packages provide everything needed by the user to do that 'just one job'. Ideally, a MicroOS installation shouldn't _need_ tinkering with `transactional-update pkg` after install to add or remove things (the fact that users can is cool..but I don't think we should design our installations with that in mind). And so, if we as a group feel that printers, PPDs, man pages and bash-completion are mandatory features for a user-interactive desktop based on MicroOS, I have no problem adding them to the Desktop pattern. They absolutely might not make sense in the base MicroOS pattern (IIRC we removed some of them from there even) but that's a very different usecase, with user-interactivity being far less likely.
Too Many Passowrds ------------------
I checked "Make this user the administrator" during install.
I have configured passwordless sudo (via group wheel).
Still asked for password a lot of times, e.g.: * at login ("refreshing system software database") * at reboot / shutdown ("authentication is required to reboot the system")
Yeah, the excessive passwords (due to missing/incomplete/invalid polkit config I believe) is the #1 reason why I threw the word 'ALPHA' on the system role. I haven't had the time to look at it yet but I really would love if it someone did :)
Indeed. I'll see about that, but I also know next to nothing about how polkit is configured and works.
I've got little idea either, I appreciate you having a look :)
Disk Partitioning -----------------
I went pretty much with default partitioning.
Two installs: * 40 GB, 15G root, 25G var - 1,4G free on root, 25G free on var !!! * 60 GB, 37G root, 24G var - 15G free on root, 22G free on var
So, beware of provisioning enouch space for /home, as a lot of stuff goes there.
Hmm, we could add a seperate partition for /home or change the ratios required for /root - what would you prefer?
I personally don't like setups with separate /home partitions. Even less so when we have and can use BTRFS subvolumes. Separate partitions force me to think "how much space will I need for these on this system?" which is something I hate doing, because I always get it wrong.
So I'd go for the ratio changing approach. I probably don't have enough data for being super sure, but my gut feel is that on a typical single user Desktop install, the "stress" on the /var partition would be pretty low.
Depends, /var is where containers live, and as I discovered this week if you don't remember to tidy up all your container images, it sure comes back to bite you after a while ;) (That's why container image cleanup will now be enabled by default on the MicroOS Container host role...)
BTW, just curious, how big of a nonsense would it be to use a subvolume for /var too?
The problem is primarily with containers. For performance and stability, we use the btrfs driver in podman & docker. This makes subvolumes for each containers storage. For the space aware cleanup of snapper we use qgroups on the btrfs root filesystem. qgroups plus all the subvolumes made by containers ends up being a massive performance drain. So having a separate partition to /var with qgroups disabled keeps the system running smooth, plus gives us the luxury of also being able to disable CoW on /var for even more performance for the workloads expected in /var. Neither optimisations make sense to me for /home, so keeping that as a subvolume makes sense to me. as the one who's setup all the ratios for every openSUSE distro I'll put my thinking cap on for a sensible new ratio for MicroOS Desktop but any suggestions are welcome - given how YaST maths work sometimes is nice to have a real world 'goal' rather than playing with the numbers till something 'feels' right ;) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kubic+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kubic+owner@opensuse.org
On 4/25/20 3:18 AM, Richard Brown wrote:
And so, if we as a group feel that printers, PPDs, man pages and bash-completion are mandatory features for a user-interactive desktop based on MicroOS, I have no problem adding them to the Desktop pattern.
As you may know, some printers like HP laserjets require proprietary plugins to be installed. When i tried to use transactional-server with a DE on top as a transactional-desktop, the hp-plugin installer ran, looked to complete successfully (with a little help), but after reboot, when trying to print, it didn't work, reporting that plugins needed to be installed. [1]. It would be nice if hp-plugin worked with this microOS desktop role. 1- https://github.com/openSUSE/transactional-update/issues/29 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kubic+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kubic+owner@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Damian Ivanov -
Dario Faggioli -
ITwrx -
Richard Brown -
Richard Brown