Dear Carl, On Friday 01 February 2013 06:32:46 Carl Fletcher wrote:

Using KDF in 12.2 for kde4.10RC3 My settings for Apper were: Check for distribution Upgrades: Never Check for Updates: Never

After the latest update on KDE Apper changes all those settings.

A new configuration file was introduced with the latest version of Apper. On a system level the old one was replaced, but of course the one installed in the user home directory remained. The new configuration file is called apper instead of apperrc. Both files are in the $HOME/.kde4/share/config directory

But now, even if I change them back to NEVER, apper continues to check and notify.

I have set apper to exactly the same setting and even after a reboot I can not reproduce this. Apper remains silent and does not check for possible updates.

Apper still doesn't work either. It's currently offering me a 4.8.5 stable update for kde! How stupid is that! Same old story.

As also discussed on IRC yesterday, the reason for this is that an updates provided for 12.2, will always be based on the KDE supplied with 12.2. As you are running 12.2, an update provided for 12.2 could have the requirement for KDE 4.8.5. With this we have to keep in mind for what Apper would be used. The target of apper is not to replace zypper or YaST software management. It should just be an applet that informs the user for possible updates which can then be installed. Zypper or YaST might not at all show the possible update (as that it has conflicting dependencies; downgrade of KDE) and we could also ask ourselves if that is correct ? Maybe this is an important update that is vital for the user. So both have their pro's and con's. We already took the decision in the past that we will provide the minor release updates of KDE through the standard maintainance channel, so that even less users would require additional repositories to stay up-to-date. All to make it easier and safer for the user. This means that an user doesn't need to have the KDE:Release:410 repository added to zypper, as that the 4.10.x releases will be provided through the standard 12.3 Update repository. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Freitag, 1. Februar 2013, 06:32:46 schrieb Carl Fletcher:

Apper still doesn't work either. It's currently offering me a 4.8.5 stable update for kde! How stupid is that! Same old story.

Indeed, same old story: it's zypper, not apper! https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=736100 Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday 02 February 2013 07:45:17 Carl Fletcher wrote:

Dare I even ask.... but I will Did you switch on KDF as in either via Yast SM or dup -r kdf (where kdf is the repo name) And so also the Apper update in kdf

I am not using KDF, but I am more on KUSC. But Apper should behave the same regardless of the repo's configured. What could be of course different is that Apper is no longer actively checking for new updates, but keeps you reminding of the already available updates. If you check in the notification area, do you see if PackageKit is checking the repo's to find new updates or do you just see that Apper is constantly indicating that there are updates available ? Normally directly after a reboot Apper initiates PackageKit to do a check of the repo's to find possible updates. This is what is controlled by the flag and this should no longer happen.

@sven zypper works fine so long as you use: zypper up NOT: zypper patch

Carl, if you check the bug then you will see that this is something that is wrong in libzypp. Of course there is a workaround to perform a zypper up, but you can't expect that all desktop update applets are now have to have this workaround implement, just because the backend has this issue. Also the last statement in the bug report is that this is resolved now in git and that it should be submitted to Factory soon. However in your case it will not be resolved for those users running 12.2 or lower. As indicated before, Apper is using PackageKit and PackageKit utilizes the Packagekit-zypp backend to communicate with zypper. As Sven already indicated we should make sure we blame the right one here. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday 02 February 2013 08:44:14 Carl Fletcher wrote:

My real interest in this is for support purposes. As we have a significant number of users of KR49 currently and I expect they will want KR10 too. I plan to mess about a bit with apper on my sandbox, but based on what I have understood so far, I can we will be recommending Apper be removed where users venture outside the box.

Well, it is not only Apper's fault. It is that zypper has a couple of extra's build-in, which can be utilized by people that like to go outside of the box. However the target should be to improve how zypper is working with other packagemanagers and not to throw the other packagemanagers out because zypper doesn't work well with them. In the past we had also had maintainance issues with zypper/libzypp. Apper can only work with what the PackageKit-zypp backend throws at it. So we need to improve the PackageKit-zypp backend including libzypp to be better at those things and not to revert back to command line tools.

What do you think the feeling would be on implementing a rolling kde in openSUSE via standard updates. I mean stable. So no need to add R49 or whatever... it just gets pushed in via updates?

I guess you missed my earlier reply to your email. This is what we are already planning to do with 12.3 and KDE 4.10. Minor updates (e.g. 4.10.1, 4.10.2, etc) are considered as bugfix releases and can therefore be pushed through the update channel. This was already aligned and agreed with the maintenance team. Pushing however an update like KDE 4.11 through the maintenance channel would be a complete different story. This is no longer a maintainence update, but a feature release and therefore can not be pushed through the standard updates. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday 02 February 2013 09:03:43 Carl Fletcher wrote:

wrote:

...

Minor updates (e.g. 4.10.1, 4.10.2, etc) are considered as bugfix releases and can therefore be pushed through the update channel.

I thought that was already happening in 12.2?

No. KDE updates are not pushed throught the maintenance cycle. Otherwise you wouldn't had the issue that it wants to downgrade to 4.8.5.

...

Pushing however an update like KDE 4.11 through the maintenance channel wouldbe a complete different story.

That is what I did mean. Ah well...

Well, you could bring it up with the maintenance team if they would allow this, but there is nothing like this for any part of openSUSE. Even tumbleweed does not work this way.

*Changing the repo priority doesn't seem to make any difference with Apper. I set KDF to 10, all the rest are default 99. But Apper still wants to dowwngrade

Nope and the cause is explained in this bug report : https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=736100 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org