[opensuse-kde] Port Camino to KDE?
There has been a lot of hubbub regarding the default browser. Firefox doesn't integrate completely with KDE, but renders best. Rekonq integrates fully, but isn't as good at rendering. For Mac OSX there is the Camino browseer which is essentialy Firefox built in the Cocoa framework so it integrates fully... what possibility is there for adapting Camino or its concept anyway to create a KDEcentric Gecko based browser? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/07/03 12:51 (GMT-0700) Roger Luedecke composed:
There has been a lot of hubbub regarding the default browser. Firefox doesn't integrate completely with KDE, but renders best. Rekonq integrates fully, but isn't as good at rendering. For Mac OSX there is the Camino browseer which is essentialy Firefox built in the Cocoa framework so it integrates fully... what possibility is there for adapting Camino or its concept anyway to create a KDEcentric Gecko based browser?
There used to be attempts to build Gecko on top of QT. Whatever happened I don't know. Maybe there's some effort still going there, but nothing was ever released. I suspect Mozilla's addon system may be a big obstacle to KDE integration. Konqueror's KHTML engine is marginally different from WebKit, which was originally derived from KHTML. Rekonq is built on WebKit. Most WebKit features get backported to KHTML. So, there's no compelling reason for KDE to abandon Konq as default browser. And for those KDE users who like an accurate environment, Konq is the only browser left that can by default produce accuracy, making switching to anything else undesirable. OTOH, Camino is just a Mac-centric UI built on top of Gecko rv1.9.0.x at latest, which is what Firefox 3.0.x was built on, and no longer supported. Camino gets the most important security patches backported every now & then, but no new features as long as it stays stuck on Gecko rv1.9. Meanwhile, Firefox has progressed from rv1.9.0 (FF3.0) to rv1.9.1 (FF3.5) to rv1.9.2 (FF3.6) to rv2.0 (FF4) and now in FF5 it's at rv5.0. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Konqueror's KHTML engine is marginally different from WebKit, which was originally derived from KHTML. Rekonq is built on WebKit. Most WebKit features get backported to KHTML. So, there's no compelling reason for KDE to abandon Konq as default browser.
Isn't KTML/Konq development essentially stalled since the maintainer doesn't have time? I guess this is more of a question for kde-devel
And for those KDE users who like an accurate environment, Konq is the only browser left that can by default produce accuracy, making switching to anything else undesirable. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag 03 Juli 2011, 22:28:36 schrieb Felix Miata:
There used to be attempts to build Gecko on top of QT. Whatever happened I don't know. That branch still exists and AFAIK also receives occasional fixes. The Qt port however does not mean any integration into Qt environments. It just uses the Cairo-Qt wrapper to draw everything (buggy). I had a look at FF-Qt a few months ago: https://kamikazow.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/quick-look-at-firefox-4-for-qt4/
I suspect Mozilla's addon system may be a big obstacle to KDE integration. That's actually not an obstacle at all -- at least when using the official addon API (aka. JetPack). It is perfectly possible to implement that API on top of WebKit browsers because with that API addons are written using HTML(5), CSS, and JavaScript. Rekonq has already rudimentary support for Chrome extensions which follow a very similar design route (that support is not enabled by default AFAIK). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday, July 03, 2011 03:26:13 PM Markus Slopianka wrote:
Am Sonntag 03 Juli 2011, 22:28:36 schrieb Felix Miata:
There used to be attempts to build Gecko on top of QT. Whatever happened I don't know.
That branch still exists and AFAIK also receives occasional fixes. The Qt port however does not mean any integration into Qt environments. It just uses the Cairo-Qt wrapper to draw everything (buggy). I had a look at FF-Qt a few months ago: https://kamikazow.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/quick-look-at-firefox-4-for-qt4/
I suspect Mozilla's addon system may be a big obstacle to KDE integration.
That's actually not an obstacle at all -- at least when using the official addon API (aka. JetPack). It is perfectly possible to implement that API on top of WebKit browsersne. because with that API addons are written using HTML(5), CSS, and JavaScript. Rekonq has already rudimentary support for Chrome extensions which follow a very similar design route (that support is not enabled by default AFAIK). I hadn't realized it could use Chrome extensions. The two things that keep me from using it regularly is though it is fast, it is slower than Chrome or Firefox and it can't use the Google Talk plugin which serves as my primary telephone. I wonder if it has an API that would make it possible to interface a sort of caller program with. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, July 03, 2011 03:26:13 PM Markus Slopianka wrote:
Am Sonntag 03 Juli 2011, 22:28:36 schrieb Felix Miata:
There used to be attempts to build Gecko on top of QT. Whatever happened I don't know.
That branch still exists and AFAIK also receives occasional fixes. The Qt port however does not mean any integration into Qt environments. It just uses the Cairo-Qt wrapper to draw everything (buggy). I had a look at FF-Qt a few months ago: https://kamikazow.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/quick-look-at-firefox-4-for-qt4/
I suspect Mozilla's addon system may be a big obstacle to KDE integration.
That's actually not an obstacle at all -- at least when using the official addon API (aka. JetPack). It is perfectly possible to implement that API on top of WebKit browsersne. because with that API addons are written using HTML(5), CSS, and JavaScript. Rekonq has already rudimentary support for Chrome extensions which follow a very similar design route (that support is not enabled by default AFAIK). I hadn't realized it could use Chrome extensions. The two things that keep me from using it regularly is though it is fast, it is slower than Chrome or Firefox and it can't use the Google Talk plugin which serves as my primary telephone. I wonder if it has an API that would make it possible to interface a sort of caller program with.
Are chrome extensions working? I am using a recent trunk build of rekonq and don't see anything about this. I use rekonq extensively, but I am not sure it is quite ready to be the default yet. Besides the extensions issue, it is also unreliable when playing media files (like flash video), and does weird things with highlighting in gmail. Further, the version of QtWebkit openSUSE uses is very old. This will be fixed with the upcomiong QtWebkit stand-alone 2.2 release, but that is not out yet. Until it is I don't think making rekonq the default is a good move. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag 04 Juli 2011, 10:04:33 schrieb todd rme:
Are chrome extensions working? I am using a recent trunk build of rekonq and don't see anything about this.
AFAIK you have to compile it yourself to enable extension support. It's still experimental and not the top-most item on the devs' agenda.
Until it is I don't think making rekonq the default is a good move.
Better than an experimental pre-alpha Qt port of Firefox ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Monday, July 04, 2011 01:04:33 AM todd rme wrote:
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, July 03, 2011 03:26:13 PM Markus Slopianka wrote:
Am Sonntag 03 Juli 2011, 22:28:36 schrieb Felix Miata:
There used to be attempts to build Gecko on top of QT. Whatever happened I don't know.
That branch still exists and AFAIK also receives occasional fixes. The Qt port however does not mean any integration into Qt environments. It just uses the Cairo-Qt wrapper to draw everything (buggy). I had a look at FF-Qt a few months ago: https://kamikazow.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/quick-look-at-firefox-4-for-q t4/
I suspect Mozilla's addon system may be a big obstacle to KDE integration.
That's actually not an obstacle at all -- at least when using the official addon API (aka. JetPack). It is perfectly possible to implement that API on top of WebKit browsersne. because with that API addons are written using HTML(5), CSS, and JavaScript. Rekonq has already rudimentary support for Chrome extensions which follow a very similar design route (that support is not enabled by default AFAIK).
I hadn't realized it could use Chrome extensions. The two things that keep me from using it regularly is though it is fast, it is slower than Chrome or Firefox and it can't use the Google Talk plugin which serves as my primary telephone. I wonder if it has an API that would make it possible to interface a sort of caller program with.
Are chrome extensions working? I am using a recent trunk build of rekonq and don't see anything about this.
I use rekonq extensively, but I am not sure it is quite ready to be the default yet. Besides the extensions issue, it is also unreliable when playing media files (like flash video), and does weird things with highlighting in gmail. Further, the version of QtWebkit openSUSE uses is very old. This will be fixed with the upcomiong QtWebkit stand-alone 2.2 release, but that is not out yet. Until it is I don't think making rekonq the default is a good move.
-Todd Well, we aren't going to remaster the 11.4 iso. Rather, talking about default for the next release. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag 03 Juli 2011, 21:51:29 schrieb Roger Luedecke:
what possibility is there for adapting Camino or its concept anyway to create a KDEcentric Gecko based browser?
Mozilla has officially deprecated embedding of Gecko into other applications which means that Mozilla simply doesn't want such apps as Camino. These days WebKit is more than capable and excels Gecko in many ways. WRT specific browsers I'd say Rekonq is already good enough to be default browser. It doesn't have the same feature set as Firefox but a default app doesn't need to do everything just the default use case (here: browse the web) good enough. What needs works however is that at least under openSUSE Flash causes QtWebKit (and hence Rekonq) to crash. (It must be a oS thing because the maintainers can't reproduce it on their distro.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday, July 03, 2011 03:18:25 PM Markus Slopianka wrote:
Am Sonntag 03 Juli 2011, 21:51:29 schrieb Roger Luedecke:
what possibility is there for adapting Camino or its concept anyway to create a KDEcentric Gecko based browser?
Mozilla has officially deprecated embedding of Gecko into other applications which means that Mozilla simply doesn't want such apps as Camino. These days WebKit is more than capable and excels Gecko in many ways. WRT specific browsers I'd say Rekonq is already good enough to be default browser. It doesn't have the same feature set as Firefox but a default app doesn't need to do everything just the default use case (here: browse the web) good enough. What needs works however is that at least under openSUSE Flash causes QtWebKit (and hence Rekonq) to crash. (It must be a oS thing because the maintainers can't reproduce it on their distro.) That was essentially what I wondered. Seems to me that rekonq is ready to be made default, however alot of people seem thoroughly hung up on Firefox. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Roger Luedecke said the following on 07/03/2011 09:22 PM:
however alot of people seem thoroughly hung up on Firefox.
For me, the issue isn't the rendering engine that is Firefox, but the addins. * Addblock * Noscript * Web Developer * Dictionary/Spellchecker There are also niceties * Password tools, not just management but ones to make them visible on screen * Download management * "Its all text" which allows me to edit forms using VIM or Kate There are others, and I suspect that beyond the first two I mentioned tastes will change, but the real power of Firefox, the real advantage for most user, like in this library of add-ins. Rendering speed may be a good thing for technical people or for magazines to write about, but its these 'luxuries' that sell. -- For ages, a deadly conflict has been waged between a few brave men and women of thought and genius upon the one side, and the great ignorant religious mass on the other. This is the war between Science and Faith. The few have appealed to reason, to honor, to law, to freedom, to the known, and to happiness here in this world. The many have appealed to prejudice, to fear, to miracle, to slavery, to the unknown, and to misery hereafter. The few have said "Think" The many have said "Believe!" --Robert Ingersoll (Gods) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
Roger Luedecke said the following on 07/03/2011 09:22 PM:
however alot of people seem thoroughly hung up on Firefox.
For me, the issue isn't the rendering engine that is Firefox, but the addins.
* Addblock * Noscript * Web Developer * Dictionary/Spellchecker
There are also niceties
* Password tools, not just management but ones to make them visible on screen * Download management * "Its all text" which allows me to edit forms using VIM or Kate
There are others, and I suspect that beyond the first two I mentioned tastes will change, but the real power of Firefox, the real advantage for most user, like in this library of add-ins. Rendering speed may be a good thing for technical people or for magazines to write about, but its these 'luxuries' that sell.
Rekonq has built-in adblock, so I would say it is better than firefox in that regard. Spell checking is needed at the QtWebkit level, and is currently being implemented (I don't know when it is expected, though). Manually loading plugins (like flash) is built into rekonq, but not the manual javascript blocking features from noscript. One huge disadvantage of rekonq I forgot to mention, which may very well be a deal-breaker, is that it cannot handle multiple logins for a single web page. So for instance if you have multiple gmail accounts, it can't handle that. This isn't something that can be fixed in rekonq, either, it is a limitation in KDE's wallet manager kwallet. It doesn't appear that it was fixed in 4.7, so that means it will be KDE 4.8 at the earliest until this is fixed. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
todd rme said the following on 07/04/2011 07:44 AM:
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
Roger Luedecke said the following on 07/03/2011 09:22 PM:
however alot of people seem thoroughly hung up on Firefox.
For me, the issue isn't the rendering engine that is Firefox, but the addins.
* Addblock * Noscript * Web Developer * Dictionary/Spellchecker
There are also niceties
* Password tools, not just management but ones to make them visible on screen * Download management * "Its all text" which allows me to edit forms using VIM or Kate
There are others, and I suspect that beyond the first two I mentioned tastes will change, but the real power of Firefox, the real advantage for most user, like in this library of add-ins. Rendering speed may be a good thing for technical people or for magazines to write about, but its these 'luxuries' that sell.
Rekonq has built-in adblock, so I would say it is better than firefox in that regard. Spell checking is needed at the QtWebkit level, and is currently being implemented (I don't know when it is expected, though). Manually loading plugins (like flash) is built into rekonq, but not the manual javascript blocking features from noscript.
I think you are missing my point. OK, so rekonq has addblock built in. WYSIWYG and that's it. With Firefox I can load _other_ blockers and ADDITIONAL plugins. Manually loading? I see the manually/automatic load from web page, but visiting a mozilla page such as https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/web-developer/ "nothing happens". I see what the help has to say about flash, but there are other plugins beside flash.
One huge disadvantage of rekonq I forgot to mention, which may very well be a deal-breaker, is that it cannot handle multiple logins for a single web page.
Yes that would be a deal breaker. But I can't imagine why I would be using KWallet. Other password stores - e.g. KeePass - are more flexible, and for many of us the portability across systems is more important. I run openSuse on my laptop, am forced to use Windows at work, have mandriva and redhat machines under my desk. There's an android phone or tablet in the near future. See also http://keepass.info/plugins.html I'm not asking the KDE developers to throw away KWallet. Not everyone will want to adopt external tools. But please don't turn inwards and do the ivory tower thing, hard-code KWallet into the KDE tools. That seems to be the approach that a lot of the Desktop managers are taking, creating "islands of excellence" that ignore other features. We've been down this road with akonadi/nepomuk. I like KDE in general but the whole point of Linux is freedom to mix and match. I think Thunderbird is better that Kmail. YMMV. But if I use Thunderbird then forcing me to use akonadi/nepomuk isn't nice. No better than Microsoft forcing Outlook Express on my if I want to use Thunderbird on Windows. Ditto IE when I want to use Firefox or Opera. I could go on about the way that even simple programs like 'ls' require the LDAP. For example, try removing libldap. LDAP is used or userID <=> username mapping and groups and password), which on a standalone system is configured via /etc/nsswitch to use the /etc/passwd file. But rather than have that as a plugin, the way PAM works for example, its hard coded. There are too many things that are hard coded in when they should be dynamically loaded. Yes, rekonq can dynamically load plug-in like flash; the technology is there. But there seems to be a failure of imagination about using it. -- "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." -- Napoleon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
todd rme said the following on 07/04/2011 07:44 AM:
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
Roger Luedecke said the following on 07/03/2011 09:22 PM:
however alot of people seem thoroughly hung up on Firefox.
For me, the issue isn't the rendering engine that is Firefox, but the addins.
* Addblock * Noscript * Web Developer * Dictionary/Spellchecker
There are also niceties
* Password tools, not just management but ones to make them visible on screen * Download management * "Its all text" which allows me to edit forms using VIM or Kate
There are others, and I suspect that beyond the first two I mentioned tastes will change, but the real power of Firefox, the real advantage for most user, like in this library of add-ins. Rendering speed may be a good thing for technical people or for magazines to write about, but its these 'luxuries' that sell.
Rekonq has built-in adblock, so I would say it is better than firefox in that regard. Spell checking is needed at the QtWebkit level, and is currently being implemented (I don't know when it is expected, though). Manually loading plugins (like flash) is built into rekonq, but not the manual javascript blocking features from noscript.
I think you are missing my point. OK, so rekonq has addblock built in. WYSIWYG and that's it. With Firefox I can load _other_ blockers and ADDITIONAL plugins.
You can load additional blockers in rekonq as well, just click a link for a rule list and it is automatically installed. As was mentioned before, plugin support is already being implemented.
Manually loading? I see the manually/automatic load from web page, but visiting a mozilla page such as https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/web-developer/ "nothing happens".
Yes, that is because it is a mozilla extension. Of course mozilla extension aren't going to work with other browsers since it is heavily based on the XUL system underlying mozilla but used by pretty much no one else. Rekonq is getting support for the html-based extension supported by chrome and probably others as well.
I see what the help has to say about flash, but there are other plugins beside flash.
There is a difference between a plugin, which usually refers to the netscape plugin standard supported by most web browsers for things like flash, video, java, and so on, and extensions, which are usually browser-specific (although, unlike firefox, rekonq is making an effort to use a cross-browser extension format). The manual loading of plugins, which is one of the features of noscript, is built into Rekonq. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the loading of extensions.
One huge disadvantage of rekonq I forgot to mention, which may very well be a deal-breaker, is that it cannot handle multiple logins for a single web page.
Yes that would be a deal breaker. But I can't imagine why I would be using KWallet. Other password stores - e.g. KeePass - are more flexible, and for many of us the portability across systems is more important. I run openSuse on my laptop, am forced to use Windows at work, have mandriva and redhat machines under my desk. There's an android phone or tablet in the near future.
KDE is switching to a cross-desktop password system called ksecretservice. This will allow developers to add new password backends for any password-managing system they want. Kwallet will be a wrapper around this, so the change will be transparent for KDE applications. It should be possible to make a KeePass backend for it as well. But unlike the use of extensions like firefox, the change will be totally transparent to applications, they will neither have to know nor care the Kwallet is now completely different under the hood. This is a big advantage of KDE's approach of making things integrated, applications don't have to independently make major change every time someone wants to add some new backend or feature, only the underlying system has to be modified and all the applications get it for free. Similarly, switching to a new web browser, say from konqueror to rekonq, doesn't have any impact on the backend developers, they can keep programming for the same underlying system they always have been. Compare this to Mozilla where plugins have to be updated, sometimes significantly, for every Firefox release, and need to have different code-paths for different Mozilla-based programs like Firefix, Thunderbird, Sunbird, and so on.
I'm not asking the KDE developers to throw away KWallet. Not everyone will want to adopt external tools. But please don't turn inwards and do the ivory tower thing, hard-code KWallet into the KDE tools. That seems to be the approach that a lot of the Desktop managers are taking, creating "islands of excellence" that ignore other features.
It is a good thing, then, that KDE is doing the exact opposite of this.
We've been down this road with akonadi/nepomuk. I like KDE in general but the whole point of Linux is freedom to mix and match. I think Thunderbird is better that Kmail. YMMV. But if I use Thunderbird then forcing me to use akonadi/nepomuk isn't nice. No better than Microsoft forcing Outlook Express on my if I want to use Thunderbird on Windows.
You shouldn't need to use Akonadi at all. There was a problem where Plasma called the Akonadi calendar, but this was a bug and I think it has been fixed for 4.7. Now there should be now reason you need to have Akonadi at all. You can just uninstall it if you don't want it, or simply don't use it, it shouldn't start unless a PIM application tries to use. Nepomuk is merely a program for reading and writing metada, you don't need to know or care that it is being used any more than you know or care that exiv is being used. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
todd rme said the following on 07/04/2011 11:01 AM:
I think you are missing my point. OK, so rekonq has addblock built in. WYSIWYG and that's it. With Firefox I can load _other_ blockers and ADDITIONAL plugins.
You can load additional blockers in rekonq as well, just click a link for a rule list and it is automatically installed. As was mentioned before, plugin support is already being implemented.
Once again I think you are missing my point. By 'additional blockers' I did NOT mean addition sources of rule lists. I meant additional engines; alternative ad-blockers to adblock. Yes adblock from Wladimir Palant is great, but some people may have reasons to use something else. I keep saying that we should have that kind of freedom of choice. -- Try to learn something about everything and everything about something. Thomas H. Huxley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 4. Juli 2011, 11:17:06 schrieb Anton Aylward:
todd rme said the following on 07/04/2011 11:01 AM:
I think you are missing my point. OK, so rekonq has addblock built in. WYSIWYG and that's it. With Firefox I can load _other_ blockers and ADDITIONAL plugins.
You can load additional blockers in rekonq as well, just click a link for a rule list and it is automatically installed. As was mentioned before, plugin support is already being implemented.
Once again I think you are missing my point. By 'additional blockers' I did NOT mean addition sources of rule lists.
I meant additional engines; alternative ad-blockers to adblock.
Yes adblock from Wladimir Palant is great, but some people may have reasons to use something else. I keep saying that we should have that kind of freedom of choice.
You do. This thread is about the default browser which should fulfil the default needs and not everybody's – because that's impossible. A browser should let you browse in the first place if that works there are only a few more things to expect Most people do not even know about noscript, noflash etc. Neither do they develop websites or anything else. They use webmail, facebook, google and that's it. After that it gets into detail and since everybody has the choice to still install/use firefox, there is no lack of choice but just a decision to use it as default or not. BTW: before firefox became default in openSUSE's KDE pattern, konqueror was the default browser – worse engine, worse plug-in support etc. Those that liked it, used it because for them it had advantage x. Those that did not like it, used firefox because it had extension y. This is just about a default browser and not which browser is the most versatile in all kinds of disciplines. Whether rekonq is the right choice – I do not know, but firefox is certainly not the right choice because one can use noscript or any of the stuff 99% of the users on the web do not use. Firefox does not even care about desktop integration other than gtk, which is why KDe people have to work on making it fit into plasma's notification system, use KDE's file-dialogues and standard-apps. That's important for the normal user - not having the choice of a dozen adblockers. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Monday, July 04, 2011 11:05:37 AM Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Montag, 4. Juli 2011, 11:17:06 schrieb Anton Aylward:
todd rme said the following on 07/04/2011 11:01 AM:
I think you are missing my point. OK, so rekonq has addblock built in. WYSIWYG and that's it. With Firefox I can load _other_ blockers and ADDITIONAL plugins.
You can load additional blockers in rekonq as well, just click a link for a rule list and it is automatically installed. As was mentioned before, plugin support is already being implemented.
Once again I think you are missing my point. By 'additional blockers' I did NOT mean addition sources of rule lists.
I meant additional engines; alternative ad-blockers to adblock.
Yes adblock from Wladimir Palant is great, but some people may have reasons to use something else. I keep saying that we should have that kind of freedom of choice.
You do. This thread is about the default browser which should fulfil the default needs and not everybody's – because that's impossible. A browser should let you browse in the first place if that works there are only a few more things to expect Most people do not even know about noscript, noflash etc. Neither do they develop websites or anything else. They use webmail, facebook, google and that's it. After that it gets into detail and since everybody has the choice to still install/use firefox, there is no lack of choice but just a decision to use it as default or not.
BTW: before firefox became default in openSUSE's KDE pattern, konqueror was the default browser – worse engine, worse plug-in support etc. Those that liked it, used it because for them it had advantage x. Those that did not like it, used firefox because it had extension y.
This is just about a default browser and not which browser is the most versatile in all kinds of disciplines. Whether rekonq is the right choice – I do not know, but firefox is certainly not the right choice because one can use noscript or any of the stuff 99% of the users on the web do not use. Firefox does not even care about desktop integration other than gtk, which is why KDe people have to work on making it fit into plasma's notification system, use KDE's file-dialogues and standard-apps. That's important for the normal user - not having the choice of a dozen adblockers.
Sven Exactly. This is why I advocate switching to Rekonq. Many will choose Firefox, but many will also stick with Rekonq which would help speed up development. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 20:18, Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@...> wrote:
On Monday, July 04, 2011 11:05:37 AM Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Montag, 4. Juli 2011, 11:17:06 schrieb Anton Aylward:
todd rme said the following on 07/04/2011 11:01 AM: <snip>
OK, so rekonq has addblock built in. WYSIWYG and that's it.
The adblock in rekonq is a url-only blocker, it is in no way as sopicated as "Adblock-Plus" (from Wladimir Palant, not to be confused with the original "Adblock"). Aditionally a dear miss is the (domain) selectiv Javascript/Media blocker like NoScript. <snip>
Exactly. This is why I advocate switching to Rekonq. Many will choose Firefox, but many will also stick with Rekonq which would help speed up development.
The main point to avoid is the continous trouble with the Adobe flash-player in rekonq. You wanna crash rekonq? Go to a video-site. Youtube works some times, but others... The sorry state is, the (open) alternatives to Adobe flash-player are not working with better reliablility in rekonq. On OSS 11.2 with KDE:Release:46 rekonq was simply not feasable for daily mainstay. Yes as a good third browser instead of konqueror, but not even good enough (reliablility) to replace Opera as second choice. (For Me.) My vote is for rekonq instead of konqueror, but not as THE default browser on the Desktop / "text/html"-mimetype. I have hopes for OSS 12.1 with KDE 4.7 / 4.8 for betterment in rekonq esp. wrt plugins (flash/replacement). More rekonq users, esp in KDE 4.7 would give more feedback for the devs. Just my 2 ct, Yamaban. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am 04.07.2011 20:05, schrieb Sven Burmeister:
Firefox does not even care about desktop integration other than gtk, which is why KDe people have to work on making it fit into plasma's notification system, use KDE's file-dialogues and standard-apps. That's important for the normal user - not having the choice of a dozen adblockers.
But Firefox is known by majority of the computer users worldwide. This could leave out another hurdle of switching to Linux. On the other hand, Firefox may be kind of cumbersome and slow, so it might be the better choice to switch to something slimmer then the Mozilla browser. But on the third hand, Firefox on openSUSE is kinda like Firefox on Window,so the switched Windows-user will get familiar easy with Firefox and doesn´t need to re-learn the browser use experience under Linux But, it´s your decision, not mine so do what you think is the best just my $0.02 -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag 04 Juli 2011, 20:35:33 schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
But on the third hand, Firefox on openSUSE is kinda like Firefox on Window, Exactly. And openSUSE with Plasma Desktop is not Windows. Firefox is a browser mainly developed for Windows with some "hacks" to make it somewhat integrate into GNOME (but not well) and on top of that some additional and unsupported by Mozilla hacks (kmozillahelper) to make that badly integrated Windows-on-GNOME browser barely fit into Plasma Desktop.
It was the right thing to do at that time but these days the Qt port of WebKit is pretty good.
so the switched Windows-user will get familiar easy with Firefox and doesn´t need to re-learn the browser use experience under Linux
It's a web browser. It has Back, Forward, Stop/Reload buttons, and an URL bar. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 02:12:13 AM Markus Slopianka wrote:
Am Montag 04 Juli 2011, 20:35:33 schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
But on the third hand, Firefox on openSUSE is kinda like Firefox on Window,
Exactly. And openSUSE with Plasma Desktop is not Windows. Firefox is a browser mainly developed for Windows with some "hacks" to make it somewhat integrate into GNOME (but not well) and on top of that some additional and unsupported by Mozilla hacks (kmozillahelper) to make that badly integrated Windows-on-GNOME browser barely fit into Plasma Desktop.
It was the right thing to do at that time but these days the Qt port of WebKit is pretty good.
so the switched Windows-user will get familiar easy with Firefox and doesn´t need to re-learn the browser use experience under Linux
It's a web browser. It has Back, Forward, Stop/Reload buttons, and an URL bar. I agree entirely. And once again, if someone is saavy enough to be using Linux at all, these concerns are moot. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am 04.07.2011 20:05, schrieb Sven Burmeister:
Firefox does not even care about desktop integration other than gtk, which is why KDe people have to work on making it fit into plasma's notification system, use KDE's file-dialogues and standard-apps. That's important for the normal user - not having the choice of a dozen adblockers.
But Firefox is known by majority of the computer users worldwide. This could leave out another hurdle of switching to Linux. On the other hand, Firefox may be kind of cumbersome and slow, so it might be the better choice to switch to something slimmer then the Mozilla browser.
But on the third hand, Firefox on openSUSE is kinda like Firefox on Window,so the switched Windows-user will get familiar easy with Firefox and doesn´t need to re-learn the browser use experience under Linux
But, it´s your decision, not mine so do what you think is the best
just my $0.02 DO keep in mind that if they are computer saavy enough to be using Linux...
On Monday, July 04, 2011 11:35:33 AM Kim Leyendecker wrote: then transition curves are not much of an issue. Besides, browsers aren't that different... and you would be surprised how many people are still using IE. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Sven Burmeister said the following on 07/04/2011 02:05 PM:
BTW: before firefox became default in openSUSE's KDE pattern, konqueror was the default browser – worse engine, worse plug-in support etc. Those that liked it, used it because for them it had advantage x. Those that did not like it, used firefox because it had extension y.
I never used Konqeror as a web browser; I ALWAYS - and still do - use it as a file manager. Gutted as it is no, its still a better file manager than Dolphin. When I used it in "webkit mode" it was to preview a local HTML file without having to fire up another program. Per brought this matter up in a parallel thread.
This is just about a default browser and not which browser is the most versatile in all kinds of disciplines. Whether rekonq is the right choice – I do not know, but firefox is certainly not the right choice because one can use noscript or any of the stuff 99% of the users on the web do not use. Firefox does not even care about desktop integration other than gtk, which is why KDe people have to work on making it fit into plasma's notification system, use KDE's file-dialogues and standard-apps. That's important for the normal user - not having the choice of a dozen adblockers.
Those were my examples. The other 99% of the users of firefox use other plugins that make their life easier for what they do: on eBay, on Twitter, blogging, whatever. There have been a number of D-Bus/Mozilla integration projects, and a previous version of Thunderbird *DID* notify via the pop-up in my system tray. The current versions of Firefox and Thunderbird make use of libinotify and *DO* integrate with Gnome. I see also that compiz-plugins-extras package uses libinotify through /usr/lib/compiz/libnotification.so Doesn't that use DBus? So what's the problem? -- A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. Dwight D. Eisenhower, Inaugural Address, January 20, 1953 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Sven Burmeister said the following on 07/04/2011 02:05 PM:
BTW: before firefox became default in openSUSE's KDE pattern, konqueror was the default browser – worse engine, worse plug-in support etc. Those that liked it, used it because for them it had advantage x. Those that did not like it, used firefox because it had extension y.
I never used Konqeror as a web browser; I ALWAYS - and still do - use it as a file manager. Gutted as it is no, its still a better file manager than Dolphin. When I used it in "webkit mode" it was to preview a local HTML file without having to fire up another program. Per brought this matter up in a parallel thread.
This is just about a default browser and not which browser is the most versatile in all kinds of disciplines. Whether rekonq is the right choice – I do not know, but firefox is certainly not the right choice because one can use noscript or any of the stuff 99% of the users on the web do not use. Firefox does not even care about desktop integration other than gtk, which is why KDe people have to work on making it fit into plasma's notification system, use KDE's file-dialogues and standard-apps. That's important for the normal user - not having the choice of a dozen adblockers.
Those were my examples. The other 99% of the users of firefox use other plugins that make their life easier for what they do: on eBay, on Twitter, blogging, whatever. There have been a number of D-Bus/Mozilla integration projects, and a previous version of Thunderbird *DID* notify via the pop-up in my system tray. The current versions of Firefox and Thunderbird make use of libinotify and *DO* integrate with Gnome. I see also that compiz-plugins-extras package uses libinotify through /usr/lib/compiz/libnotification.so Doesn't that use DBus? So what's the problem? -- "It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness." - Eleanor Roosevelt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Sven Burmeister said the following on 07/04/2011 02:05 PM:
BTW: before firefox became default in openSUSE's KDE pattern, konqueror was the default browser – worse engine, worse plug-in support etc. Those that liked it, used it because for them it had advantage x. Those that did not like it, used firefox because it had extension y.
I never used Konqeror as a web browser; I ALWAYS - and still do - use it as a file manager. Gutted as it is now, its still a better file manager than Dolphin. When I used it in "webkit mode" it was to preview a local HTML file without having to fire up another program. Per brought this matter up in a parallel thread.
This is just about a default browser and not which browser is the most versatile in all kinds of disciplines. Whether rekonq is the right choice – I do not know, but firefox is certainly not the right choice because one can use noscript or any of the stuff 99% of the users on the web do not use. Firefox does not even care about desktop integration other than gtk, which is why KDe people have to work on making it fit into plasma's notification system, use KDE's file-dialogues and standard-apps. That's important for the normal user - not having the choice of a dozen adblockers.
Those were my examples. The other 99% of the users of Firebox use other plug-ins that make their life easier for what they do: on eBay, on Twitter, blogging, whatever. Each to his own. There are hundreds (?thousands?) of plug-ins to appeal to all kinds of users. Yes, any particular one may have only 1% appeal, but I'm sure many have more than that. And there are so many of them. There have been a number of D-Bus/Mozilla integration projects, and a previous version of Thunderbird *DID* notify via the pop-up in my system tray. The current versions of Firefox and Thunderbird make use of libinotify and *DO* integrate with Gnome. I see also that compiz-plug-ins-extras package uses libinotify through /usr/lib/compiz/libnotification.so Doesn't that use DBus? So what's the problem? I've been getting notifications of new mail. -- Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Saint Jerome, On the Epistle to the Ephesians -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 4. Juli 2011, 20:05:37 schrieb Sven Burmeister:
Am Montag, 4. Juli 2011, 11:17:06 schrieb Anton Aylward:
todd rme said the following on 07/04/2011 11:01 AM:
I think you are missing my point. OK, so rekonq has addblock built in. WYSIWYG and that's it. With Firefox I can load _other_ blockers and ADDITIONAL plugins.
You can load additional blockers in rekonq as well, just click a link for a rule list and it is automatically installed. As was mentioned before, plugin support is already being implemented.
Once again I think you are missing my point. By 'additional blockers' I did NOT mean addition sources of rule lists.
I meant additional engines; alternative ad-blockers to adblock.
Yes adblock from Wladimir Palant is great, but some people may have reasons to use something else. I keep saying that we should have that kind of freedom of choice.
You do. This thread is about the default browser which should fulfil the default needs and not everybody's – because that's impossible. A browser should let you browse in the first place if that works there are only a few more things to expect Most people do not even know about noscript, noflash etc. Neither do they develop websites or anything else. They use webmail, facebook, google and that's it. After that it gets into detail and since everybody has the choice to still install/use firefox, there is no lack of choice but just a decision to use it as default or not.
BTW: before firefox became default in openSUSE's KDE pattern, konqueror was the default browser – worse engine, worse plug-in support etc. Those that liked it, used it because for them it had advantage x. Those that did not like it, used firefox because it had extension y.
This is just about a default browser and not which browser is the most versatile in all kinds of disciplines. Whether rekonq is the right choice – I do not know, but firefox is certainly not the right choice because one can use noscript or any of the stuff 99% of the users on the web do not use. Firefox does not even care about desktop integration other than gtk, which is why KDe people have to work on making it fit into plasma's notification system, use KDE's file-dialogues and standard-apps. That's important for the normal user - not having the choice of a dozen adblockers.
This is where I completely disagree. Firefox /is/ the right choice since everybody knows it quite well. Most important: If someone changed from a windows system or just has to use a linux/kde-system at work or whatsoever he or she knows already one of the most important programs. Another really important point is, that with Firefox sync you can now easily share bookmarks, tabs, prefs or even passwords if you want. Especially with a lot of mobile devices this is a killer-feature. At least for me. In the old days I rarely used bookmarks since it was a pain in the ass to keep them synced. Maybe this is not a rekonq/konqueror, but more a kde-problem how to get "into the cloud". Another thing are socks proxys. I open a ssh-socks proxy on a daily basis to get access to a secured network. Using rekonq for this? No way! Socks is just not working (just tried it with rekonq 0.7). I also would like to switch between different proxies like you can do it with "foxy proxy". If you like it or not: Just offering a way to view web-pages is not enough nowadays. I really like rekonq and I am trying it from now to then, but it is not an alternative to firefox. regards Marco -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 4. Juli 2011, 22:11:12 schrieb Marco Röben:
Am Montag, 4. Juli 2011, 20:05:37 schrieb Sven Burmeister:
This is just about a default browser and not which browser is the most versatile in all kinds of disciplines. Whether rekonq is the right choice – I do not know, but firefox is certainly not the right choice because one can use noscript or any of the stuff 99% of the users on the web do not use. Firefox does not even care about desktop integration other than gtk, which is why KDe people have to work on making it fit into plasma's notification system, use KDE's file-dialogues and standard-apps. That's important for the normal user - not having the choice of a dozen adblockers.
This is where I completely disagree.
You did not disagree... :)
Firefox /is/ the right choice since everybody knows it quite well.
...because you neither claim that it is the right choice because of noscript etc. Familiarity across operating systems is a different reason.
Most important: If someone changed from a windows system or just has to use a linux/kde-system at work or whatsoever he or she knows already one of the most important programs.
I see your point and might even agree but I claim that 99% of its users have no idea about firefox's capabilities (sync, add-ons etc.) and simply use it for browsing with the default settings. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Monday, July 04, 2011 03:41:37 PM Sven Burmeister wrote:
I see your point and might even agree but I claim that 99% of its users have no idea about firefox's capabilities (sync, add-ons etc.) and simply use it for browsing with the default settings. That is exactly correct. I do most of my work for end-user systems, and its shocking how many don't know there are browsers other than IE. For a default, Rekonq is more than adequate. If somebody finds themselves missing a feature of Firefox, then they know thats what they want and can install it. As for learning curve, if they were plopped in front of a Linux workstation in the workspace... they would have access to help. A home user isn't going to be so illiterate they can't look for, read, and properly execute instructions. DO you have any idea that there are still people (the majority) that think Mac runs on Windows? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 4. Juli 2011, 20:05:37 schrieb Sven Burmeister:
Am Montag, 4. Juli 2011, 11:17:06 schrieb Anton Aylward:
todd rme said the following on 07/04/2011 11:01 AM:
I think you are missing my point. OK, so rekonq has addblock built in. WYSIWYG and that's it. With Firefox I can load _other_ blockers and ADDITIONAL plugins.
You can load additional blockers in rekonq as well, just click a link for a rule list and it is automatically installed. As was mentioned before, plugin support is already being implemented.
Once again I think you are missing my point. By 'additional blockers' I did NOT mean addition sources of rule lists.
I meant additional engines; alternative ad-blockers to adblock.
Yes adblock from Wladimir Palant is great, but some people may have reasons to use something else. I keep saying that we should have that kind of freedom of choice.
You do. This thread is about the default browser which should fulfil the default needs and not everybody's – because that's impossible. A browser should let you browse in the first place if that works there are only a few more things to expect Most people do not even know about noscript, noflash etc. Neither do they develop websites or anything else. They use webmail, facebook, google and that's it. After that it gets into detail and since everybody has the choice to still install/use firefox, there is no lack of choice but just a decision to use it as default or not.
BTW: before firefox became default in openSUSE's KDE pattern, konqueror was the default browser – worse engine, worse plug-in support etc. Those that liked it, used it because for them it had advantage x. Those that did not like it, used firefox because it had extension y.
This is just about a default browser and not which browser is the most versatile in all kinds of disciplines. Whether rekonq is the right choice – I do not know, but firefox is certainly not the right choice because one can use noscript or any of the stuff 99% of the users on the web do not use. Firefox does not even care about desktop integration other than gtk, which is why KDe people have to work on making it fit into plasma's notification system, use KDE's file-dialogues and standard-apps. That's important for the normal user - not having the choice of a dozen adblockers.
This is where I completely disagree. Firefox /is/ the right choice since everybody knows it quite well. Most important: If someone changed from a windows system or just has to use a linux/kde-system at work or whatsoever he or she knows already one of the most important programs.
Another really important point is, that with Firefox sync you can now easily share bookmarks, tabs, prefs or even passwords if you want. Especially with a lot of mobile devices this is a killer-feature. At least for me. In the old days I rarely used bookmarks since it was a pain in the ass to keep them synced. Maybe this is not a rekonq/konqueror, but more a kde-problem how to get "into the cloud".
Another thing are socks proxys. I open a ssh-socks proxy on a daily basis to get access to a secured network. Using rekonq for this? No way! Socks is just not working (just tried it with rekonq 0.7). I also would like to switch between different proxies like you can do it with "foxy proxy".
If you like it or not: Just offering a way to view web-pages is not enough nowadays.
I really like rekonq and I am trying it from now to then, but it is not an alternative to firefox.
regards Marco Does a default browser need to be fancy? If somebody finds themselves missing a feature, then they already know what it is (Firefox) and retrieve it. As for learning curve, Rekonq is relatively soft thanks to its simple UI. I say we push it in the next release as default on KDE only. That way we can accelerate development on it, and give users a more unified experience (for
On Monday, July 04, 2011 01:11:12 PM Marco Röben wrote: those moving from Gnome or w/e). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am 05.07.2011 16:01, schrieb Roger Luedecke:
Does a default browser need to be fancy? If somebody finds themselves missing a feature, then they already know what it is (Firefox) and retrieve it. As for learning curve, Rekonq is relatively soft thanks to its simple UI. I say we push it in the next release as default on KDE only. That way we can accelerate development on it, and give users a more unified experience (for those moving from Gnome or w/e).
and what´s with Konqueror? Will it stay on default or have I to install it by myself? thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Kim Leyendecker <kimleyendecker@hotmail.de> wrote:
Am 05.07.2011 16:01, schrieb Roger Luedecke:
Does a default browser need to be fancy? If somebody finds themselves missing a feature, then they already know what it is (Firefox) and retrieve it. As for learning curve, Rekonq is relatively soft thanks to its simple UI. I say we push it in the next release as default on KDE only. That way we can accelerate development on it, and give users a more unified experience (for those moving from Gnome or w/e).
and what´s with Konqueror? Will it stay on default or have I to install it by myself?
thanks
Rekonq depends on konqueror, so if we do switch to rekonq then konqueror will need to be installed. That is unless a new version of rekonq removes this dependency, or if the dependency is a mistake on the part of whoever made the openSUSE package. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 5 July 2011 12:38, todd rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com> wrote: On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Kim Leyendecker <kimleyendecker@hotmail.de> wrote:
Am 05.07.2011 16:01, schrieb Roger Luedecke:
Does a default browser need to be fancy? If somebody finds themselves missing a feature, then they already know what it is (Firefox) and retrieve it. As for learning curve, Rekonq is relatively soft thanks to its simple UI. I say we push it in the next release as default on KDE only. That way we can accelerate development on it, and give users a more unified experience (for those moving from Gnome or w/e).
and what´s with Konqueror? Will it stay on default or have I to install it by myself?
Having two (or more) browsers installed in not really necessary, so I don't think konq should be installed if rekonq becomes the default.
thanks
Rekonq depends on konqueror, so if we do switch to rekonq then konqueror will need to be installed. That is unless a new version of rekonq removes this dependency, or if the dependency is a mistake on the part of whoever made the openSUSE package.
It is either a mistake but the packages may need to be reworked anyway. When Kubuntu made rekonq the default browser, they had to change around a few packages because of dependencies.
-Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 10:18:33 AM Steven Sroka wrote:
On 5 July 2011 12:38, todd rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com> wrote: On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Kim Leyendecker
<kimleyendecker@hotmail.de> wrote:
Am 05.07.2011 16:01, schrieb Roger Luedecke:
Does a default browser need to be fancy? If somebody finds themselves missing a feature, then they already know what it is (Firefox) and retrieve it. As for learning curve, Rekonq is relatively soft thanks to its simple UI. I say we push it in the next release as default on KDE only. That way we can accelerate development on it, and give users a more unified experience (for those moving from Gnome or w/e).
and what´s with Konqueror? Will it stay on default or have I to install it by myself?
Having two (or more) browsers installed in not really necessary, so I don't think konq should be installed if rekonq becomes the default.
thanks
Rekonq depends on konqueror, so if we do switch to rekonq then konqueror will need to be installed. That is unless a new version of rekonq removes this dependency, or if the dependency is a mistake on the part of whoever made the openSUSE package.
It is either a mistake but the packages may need to be reworked anyway. When Kubuntu made rekonq the default browser, they had to change around a few packages because of dependencies.
-Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org I agree entirely with this assesment. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 09:38:25 AM todd rme wrote:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Kim Leyendecker
<kimleyendecker@hotmail.de> wrote:
Am 05.07.2011 16:01, schrieb Roger Luedecke:
Does a default browser need to be fancy? If somebody finds themselves missing a feature, then they already know what it is (Firefox) and retrieve it. As for learning curve, Rekonq is relatively soft thanks to its simple UI. I say we push it in the next release as default on KDE only. That way we can accelerate development on it, and give users a more unified experience (for those moving from Gnome or w/e).
and what´s with Konqueror? Will it stay on default or have I to install it by myself?
thanks
Rekonq depends on konqueror, so if we do switch to rekonq then konqueror will need to be installed. That is unless a new version of rekonq removes this dependency, or if the dependency is a mistake on the part of whoever made the openSUSE package.
-Todd Its probably a packaging goof. I have had to install some weird crap just to get a mutual dependancy. I can't remember a concrete example off hand, but an apps dependencies should always be separate packages so far as I am concerned. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, July 05, 2011 09:27:19 AM Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Am 05.07.2011 16:01, schrieb Roger Luedecke:
Does a default browser need to be fancy? If somebody finds themselves missing a feature, then they already know what it is (Firefox) and retrieve it. As for learning curve, Rekonq is relatively soft thanks to its simple UI. I say we push it in the next release as default on KDE only. That way we can accelerate development on it, and give users a more unified experience (for those moving from Gnome or w/e).
and what´s with Konqueror? Will it stay on default or have I to install it by myself?
thanks I like Konqueror, but is far too complex to use as default. I would assume just remove it and firefox in favor of less bloat with Rekonq. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
todd rme said the following on 07/04/2011 11:01 AM:
You shouldn't need to use Akonadi at all. There was a problem where Plasma called the Akonadi calendar, but this was a bug and I think it has been fixed for 4.7. Now there should be now reason you need to have Akonadi at all. You can just uninstall it if you don't want it, or simply don't use it, it shouldn't start unless a PIM application tries to use.
zypper se akonai tells me I have * akonadi-googledata * akonadi-runtime * libakonadi4 * libakonadiprotocolinternals1 I try removing those ... * akonadi-googledata Removes OK :-) GOOD * akonadi-runtime Removing that removes plasma-addons as well OUCH! This seems to be a packaging problem. Surely that can be split so that the applets and wallpaper PLUGINS (HA! Dynamically loadable Plugins!) that need akonadi can be in a separate package? * libakonadi4 Removing that removes a LOT! backintime-kde compiz-kde4 kde4-effects-BeClock kdeartwork4 kdeartwork4-screensaver kdebase4-openSUSE kdebase4-session kdebase4-workspace kdebase4-workspace-branding-openSUSE kdebase4-workspace-google-gadgets kdebase4-workspace-liboxygenstyle kdepim4-runtime kdepimlibs4 kdm kget kgpg kipi-plugins kipi-plugins-lang koffice2 koffice2-kplato koffice2-kpresenter koffice2-kspread koffice2-kword kwin libakonadi4 libkdepimlibs4 libsmoke2 perl-kde4 plasma-addons plasmoid-flexible-tasks plasmoid-quickaccess python-kde4 python-kdebase4 qtcurve-kde4 synaptiks This is really annoying. Why do those have dependencies on akonadi? Is stuff compiled in or is it just an artefact of packaging? * libakonadiprotocolinternals1 OUCH Same as above with more So no, I CANNOT uninstall it, and it seems to start up even though I've been though systemsettings to turn it off. What DO do is run ps -ef | egrep "nepomuk|akonadi" | awk '{ print $2 }' | xargs kill after startup for values of -9, -11 and -15 After that there is no problem :-) So long as its is compiled in or so long as packagers include it by bundling and making it a dependency, we are stuck with it. -- We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question which divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct. My own feeling is that it is not crazy enough. -- Niels Bohr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag 04 Juli 2011, 12:53:15 schrieb Anton Aylward:
For me, the issue isn't the rendering engine that is Firefox, but the addins.
Nobody is talking about removing Firefox. It is about the default. While I personally prefer Firefox as well, it really makes no sense shipping an application as default that does not fully integrate into the default desktop environment and also wastes a relatively high amount of space on the live CD because in addition to the application itself all dependencies have to be included as well. openSUSE currently has the schizophrenic situation to place Konqueror and Firefox icons prominently. Firefox is placed onto the desktop while Konqueror is in the K Menu. No idea which is set to open http links by default. The openSUSE desktop teams should clean up that mess and decide on a single default web browser for each DE. In Plasma Desktop it makes sense to use either Konqueror or Rekonq. In GNOME Firefox or Epiphany. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 03/07/11 20:51, Roger Luedecke wrote:
There has been a lot of hubbub regarding the default browser. Firefox doesn't integrate completely with KDE, but renders best. Rekonq integrates fully, but isn't as good at rendering. For Mac OSX there is the Camino browseer which is essentialy Firefox built in the Cocoa framework so it integrates fully... what possibility is there for adapting Camino or its concept anyway to create a KDEcentric Gecko based browser?
Firefox-qt is a project that has been started and abandoned many, many times over the last decade. Last news I remember is http://blog.johnford.info/linux-qt-builds-of-firefox-now-being-generated-2/ Also see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Qt So yes, it is very possible, but it needs a significant amount of work that noone has been able to consistently put in/maintain. Best not to wait for it. Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
participants (11)
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Anton Aylward -
Felix Miata -
Kim Leyendecker -
Marco Röben -
Markus Slopianka -
Roger Luedecke -
Steven Sroka -
Sven Burmeister -
Tejas Guruswamy -
todd rme -
Yamaban