Heya, sorry in the previous mail my thumb hit the touchpad and accidently sent the empty reply =/ Am Dienstag, 12. Januar 2010 22:27:45 schrieb Karsten König:

Am Dienstag, 12. Januar 2010 22:18:44 schrieb Marco Röben:

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Hi folks,

I'm following the discussion about the different kde repo's with great interest. I had an discussion about this also on the opensuse-de mailing list some time before.

I consider myself as a pure user who is interested in the stuff you, the developers, are doing. From the developer side I'm able to understand how the kde repo's are separated. But we (the users) often want to install the most recent kde version. As far as I understand there is no repo one could use to install the recent stable kde version.

STABLE: testing ground for updates of the recent opensuse version FACTORY: recent kde version but under development for the next opensuse release UNSTABLE: bleeding edge kde version

So, my simple question is:

What repo can I use to install the recent stable kde sc as it is released from kde?

That currently is the STABLE repository, which has the latest stable 4.3 release. When 4.4 is release you will find it in FACTORY. This will be updated till the 11.2+ release with the kde stable releases. After 11.2+ has been released 4.4 moves into STABLE and the then in progress KDE version will be pulled into FACTORY Karsten

...

best regards Marco

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* Basil Chupin [01-12-10 19:33]:

So, a bit at a time the story comes out....

Are we all here then arguing with all the wrong people? The KDE developers in fact are being constricted by *Novell* regarding having properly named repos for them (developers) to use? The developers really have little say in what repos they are allowed to use - is this the idea I am getting? If so then I have full sympathy for the developers.

Take it and run with it, Basil. Look up FUD, google has it. YOU as a user/??contributor?? decide the "fate" and structure of KDE. defused rocket! -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 13 of January 2010, Markus wrote:

Am Dienstag 12 Januar 2010 22:18:44 schrieb Marco Röben:

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What repo can I use to install the recent stable kde sc as it is released from kde?

There is no simple "latest stable KDE SC" repo and I have no idea why Novell refuses to create one.

Because Novell is a company that'd like to make some money and is willing to invest only certain amount of $$$ into some things . Now, the reality is that Novell (as such) does not even really care how many KDE repos there are or what KDE version specifically they contain, as long as certain minimal requirements are met (e.g. there's something working to put into products). The same way, I don't know where you still get the idea that Novell has a tight control of the KDE repos contain. If a group of people would want to maintain KDE:22, they can have it, for all Novell cares. So, in case you actually wanted to ask why the current KDE team refuses to create such a repository, the answer is that we have only this much manpower. For example, as far as I'm concerned, I see it a much better investment of my time to work either on STABLE, making sure KDE works well with the current openSUSE release, or on Factory, making sure KDE works well with the next openSUSE release, than on a repository that only a relatively low number of people would use only because they'd be happy they have x.y.z+1 instead of x.y.z (for example, right now, do you know what would 4.3.5 bring you compared to 4.3.4? Even I specifically don't.). However, I see no principal problem with having KDE:KDE4:LATESTUPSTREAM:Desktop or whatever you call it that'd contain latest stable KDE SC. It's basically the same like with KDE:KDE3. Either somebody does the work or not, and he who does the work decides, wishing does not make it happen. And somebody who'd actually use this repository clearly has much better motivation to work on it. So just somebody say you'd take care of the repo and you can have it. Doing stable KDE updates is not that much work (besides being somewhat time-consuming), it could leverage a lot of work from STABLE/Factory, and people who do the work now would be certainly somewhat more willing to help there by means of howtos or having look at complicated problems or whatever reasonable if they knew they wouldn't end up with yet another time-sink. So if you want and can (or are willing to learn), just raise your hand, otherwise, sorry, we currently do not have the resources to also maintain a latest stable KDE SC repo. Life sucks, it's not perfect and there is no free lunch.

You have to switch repos all the time and when you use Factory, just hope that Novell does not backport some alpha-quality from UNSTABLE to Factory. Back in the day when Novell prepared openSUSE 11.1 / SLED 11, Novell backported some Plasma features from UNSTABLE (then a 4.2 pre-release) to Factory's 4.1. The result was that KDE was unusable for a week or so.

Maybe that's the reason why it's said that all those repositories are officially unsupported and people should stick only to repos that come with the distribution if they don't want to take any risk? -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 13 of January 2010, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Tue, 2010-01-12 at 22:18 +0100, Marco Röben wrote:

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STABLE: testing ground for updates of the recent opensuse version

I don't actually think this is the maintainer's definition of STABLE. It was at least meant to be "the version of KDE from the current openSUSE version, backported to previous openSUSE versions".

It is part of the definition. STABLE contains what the latest openSUSE release contains, including the online updates. As such, it is a testing ground for online updates, since we put them there first and with a delay (e.g. after smaller fixes accumulate) we release them as online updates. STABLE also being practice a backport of that specific version to older openSUSE releases is a result of the fact that we also build KDE repos on older distros. When reasonable, which means that we see it as nice effort of something that is low effort - if something in STABLE non-trivially breaks on older distros, it'll just get disabled.

I know with the 4.3.4 thing they put it in there for 11.2 to get some additional testing before the maintenance update, but I don't think that changes the idea of the repository

Testing before maintenance updates is usually done from the various project repositories, but there is no real standard for it. Sometimes it's done in the maintainer's home: repository. Maybe there should be a standard repository where updates are put before being 'officially' released. Something like openSUSE:/11.2:/Update:/Test

This repo is used for testing online updates right before they are released and is not KDE specific. I.e. KDE changes for online updates go to STABLE first, then are submitted for 11.2, where they first go to Update:Test and finally to Update. Our STABLE is an extra, we use it to help us with the work.

for example, which is there but doesn't seem to be used for very much

-- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2010 08:32:01 schrieb Christian Trippe:

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What repo can I use to install the recent stable kde sc as it is released from kde?

There is _no_ single repo, which allows this. It depends on the time in the openSUSE development circle, as it was explained several times already.

I somehow guessed this will be the answer to my question.

And I can give you a reason why in my opinion such a repo should not be created.

It does not only mean work to create such a repo, it also means additional work regarding bug reports.

I got your point and I really understand this problem regarding the bug reports. But nevertheless I think there should be something like a "stable factory" repo. Something like a snapshot of the factory repo in which a user can update and be sure that kde will start. I mean if someone is updating the system most often it is because he or she is annoyed of some small bug that exists in the current version and (maybe) this bug is gone in a more recent one. Isn't it what the monthly updates from kde are for? So there should be the possibility to do such an update. But there is the chance to install the recent version from factory at a bad time. A moment when some bigger changes by the opensuse developers are doing more harm than good. Don't get me wrong, in the end everything will be fine. It's just the small time period when it is not wise to install the recent factory packages. This is the point I want to make. As a non developer who is working on the factory packages you have no chance to see such a situation coming. So why not have an separate factory repo that have a copy of some "stable" state of the original factory repo? This snapshot could be done once a month, e.g. after a new kde release. Some thoughts from my side on a late evening... best regards Marco -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org