On Monday 02 February 2009 15:20:47 Martin Schlander wrote:

Whatever happens this list will be notified about repo changes.

Thanks. I'd like to stay on 4.2 during the 4.3 alpha/beta phase. I'll gladly be an 4.3 RC tester, but alpha/beta is just too dodgy and I have work to do. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/

On Monday 02 February 2009 19:28:25 Low Kian Seong wrote:

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

wrote:

...

On Monday 02 February 2009 15:20:47 Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Whatever happens this list will be notified about repo changes.

Thanks. I'd like to stay on 4.2 during the 4.3 alpha/beta phase. I'll gladly be an 4.3 RC tester, but alpha/beta is just too dodgy and I have work to do.

So you find 4.2 stable enough for you daily work?

So far. I used kmail, akregator, kmail, konsole, kontact, kgpg, korganizer, klipper, kmix, kpowersave, konqueror, and kwallet all day today and there was only one crash (kmail/kontact) and I could restart the application immediately with no issues. I also used hp-toolbox, pidgin, and rdesktop and they worked fine within the KDE 4 environment. A similar was had on Friday and Saturday -- hibernating between days. I didn't get around to installing KDE 4.2 on the work laptop until 2009-01-29. I'm fairly sure the crash is related to both my email accounts being tls with self-signed certificates. Well, actually one is not self-signed, it is signed by a non-standard CA and KDE 4 doesn't seem to want to import the CA yet. I haven't investigated the error fully. Sometimes in the flood of kwallet/kgpg/"bad tls" dialogs kmail gets confused and gives up the ghost. I've had kmail from KDE 3 do that as well, and I'm hoping it's no more often with KDE 4.2. So, right now I give 4.2.0 a thumbs-up, but it's still not as good as KDE 3.5.10. I'm keeping KDE 3.5.10 around in case something comes up, but I don't imagine that will be an issue. If it is possible, I'll stick with 4.2.x until the KDE project stops maintenance and then move to the most recent released 4.x. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/

Il martedì 03 febbraio 2009, Martin Schlander scrisse:

I find the 4.2.0 packages at this point markedly less reliable than the official 4.1.3 packages - but they are usable for me, though I can't deny I'm anxiously anticipating 4.2.1 and 4.2.2 ;-) I agree with you. Better waiting for 4.2.1 (at least..). Bye.

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If you want a stable environment stick to STABLE. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Onsdag 04 februar 2009 10:15:02 skrev Mathias Homann:

Am Mittwoch, 4. Februar 2009 schrieb Marc Benstein:

...

If you want a stable environment stick to STABLE.

then why does the KDE team claim that KDE 4.2 is stable?

By "KDE team" do you mean kde.org or the openSUSE KDE team? What kde.org considers stable is if you grab the _source code_ from kde.org and compile your own vanilla KDE. What openSUSE considers a little bit risky are the untested, under active development, unsupported _packages_ provided on the OBS - which is an excellent service that not all distros provide, I might add. You guys seem to think that KDE is as simple as a text editor or tuxpaint or something to package or that openSUSE doesn't do any work, other than redistributing binaries released by kde.org - that's not how it works this is free software, and it's a complete desktop environment we're talking about, packaging, polishing, testing, patching, integrating, theming something as big as KDE is a huge job. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander wrote:

Mandag 02 februar 2009 21:05:34 skrev Low Kian Seong:

...

Just want to know when kde 4.2 will be merged into the kde stable repository. That being said what is the difference between Factory and Stable?

Always the same questions ;-)

Yes, until some sanity prevails about naming conventions by Novell/SUSE.

Stable is "openSUSE stable", meaning the stable, tested, officially released

"Officially released", "tested". Then why confuse the heck out of users? Why not simply, if these are "tested, officially released" packages, include them in the normal 11.1 update repositories so that those who have KDE 4.1.x installed will have it updated to the "tested, officially released" KDE 4.2 instead of all this buggerising around with STABLE/Factory "line dancing"?

KDE packages of the latest openSUSE release (+ some so far unreleased patches). Also made available for older openSUSE releases.

Factory is "development packages for next openSUSE release", but also made available for older openSUSE releases.

However, there's a special situation because 11.2 is likely to have KDE 4.3 - meaning 4.2 will be "skipped" by openSUSE in terms of official packages.

All goobly-dook from a users point of view. KDE4.3 and oS 11.2 has nothing to do with KDE4.2 and its official release for its use in 11.1.

4.3 beta is expected to move to factory at some point before too long. What will happen to 4.2 then is undecided - maybe it'll be moved to stable extraordinarily as an exception to the rule, or it may be moved to a new project where it can remain unmaintained or it may be dropped altogether. Whatever happens this list will be notified about repo changes.

More goodly-dook and double-talk. I think this Build Service/Factory/Stable/Unstable or whatever has gone totally ga-ga and is causing more confusion that it was meant to solve. KDE 4.2 is officially released, right? Then put it into the normal update repositories for oS 11.1. Ciao. -- "I do not instruct the uninterested; I do not help those who fail to try. If I mention one corner of a subject and the pupil does not deduce therefrom the other three, I drop him." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander wrote:

Onsdag 04 februar 2009 09:19:39 skrev Basil Chupin:

...

Martin Schlander wrote:

...

However, there's a special situation because 11.2 is likely to have KDE 4.3 - meaning 4.2 will be "skipped" by openSUSE in terms of official packages.

All goobly-dook from a users point of view.

Regular users are expected and intended to use the official packages that come with the distro.

Which are?....considering that there are always updates to a currently official release of oS.

...

KDE 4.2 is officially released, right? Then put it into the normal update repositories for oS 11.1.

Do you see any comparable distros doing that?

Is openSUSE a leader or a follower? Is openSUSE an innovator or a copycat?

Like any other serious major distro openSUSE is not a rolling release distro.

No? Then why did oS officially release, and claim to have officially release, KDE4.2?

Haven't you been using openSUSE long enough to know about the update policies?

No, I don't believe that I have been using oS long enough to know the "update" policy. And seeing repository entries along the lines of: Parent Directory http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/ SLE_10/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/SLE_10... 06-Feb-2009 21:04 - openSUSE_10.3/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSU... 07-Feb-2009 14:47 openSUSE_11.0/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSU... 07-Feb-2009 14:21 openSUSE_11.1+Qt45/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSU... 07-Feb-2009 22:49 openSUSE_11.1/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSU... 07-Feb-2009 18:32 openSUSE_Factory/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSU... 06-Feb-2009 15:32 then also seeing: QUOTE KDE:KDE4:Factory will switch the KDE 4.3, once it enters openSUSE:Factory. I have asked on IRC if it is possible to save the latest state of KDE 4.2 in an additional repository. Stephan Binner answered that he can copy it to KDE:KDE4:KDE42. So it looks like we can stay on KDE4.2, until we feel KDE 4.3 is stable enough. Herbert UNQUOTE followed by QUOTE I think what Stephan meant on IRC was http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/KDE42:/Desktop/openSUSE... I have no promise though... UNQUOTE + One has little choice in wondering what the heck is going on, and wondering if one had entered the world of Alice In Wonderland and attending the Mad Hatter's Tea Party.

And understand that kde.org releasing a bunch of tarballs with millions of lines of code and hundreds of different components, doesn't magically turn into stable, polished, themed, patched rpm packages for openSUSE that integrate nicely with the distro. What the heck do you think the kde-team is doing all day if it were that easy?

Buggered if I know. Do they sit around and pick their noses and roll the extractions into balls and flick them at each other? You tell me what they do. I do, however, understand that the people dealing with oS "adjust" what the "kde-team" produces and then put it out as updates to KDE for those oS users using KDE (versus GNOME). You have an email address with '@gmail.com'. There is no indication of who you are or who you work for. There are at least one cranially handicapped living organism who uses various aliases on gmail.com. I am more than suspicious of anyone using gmail or yahoo or similar to post messages. If you know what you are talking about and express comments/suggestions/information from Novell/oS/KDE then use your real name and address and not hide behind a 'proxy' address. -- "I do not instruct the uninterested; I do not help those who fail to try. If I mention one corner of a subject and the pupil does not deduce therefrom the other three, I drop him." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

Is openSUSE a leader or a follower? Is openSUSE an innovator or a copycat?

This is not the right place to argue the matter, doing so would require a change in the openSUSE release cycle. People are *expecting* that openSUSE 11.1 is a stable target. Yes they want updates, but security and bug fixes. Pushing a massive change like KDE 4.2 especially in its current state (it's not a smooth upgrade) would be extremely irresponsible. (Have a look at this mailing list for a sample of problems people have had upgrading, and they're the more skilled kde users). If someone wants the next version of KDE, it's quite easy for them to get. If you want it, get it. If you don't want it, be left in peace.

No? Then why did oS officially release, and claim to have officially release, KDE4.2?

Go to the announcement, read the instructions and enjoy your KDE 4.2 desktop. Seriously, what's stopping you?

One has little choice in wondering what the heck is going on, and wondering if one had entered the world of Alice > In Wonderland and attending the Mad Hatter's Tea Party.

Not really. You'd be better off trying to learn what's going on, than being so militant. KDE 4.2 isn't going to ship in OS 11.1 -- and in fact, never may ship at all. (Depending on when 11.2 is released.) So if 11.2 is going to ship with KDE 4.3 then naturally the factory repo will need to upgrade to KDE 4.3.

Buggered if I know. Do they sit around and pick their noses and roll the extractions into balls and flick them at each other? You tell me what they do.

I do, however, understand that the people dealing with oS "adjust" what the "kde-team" produces and then put it out as updates to KDE for those oS users using KDE (versus GNOME).

You have an email address with '@gmail.com'. There is no indication of who you are or who you work for. There are at least one cranially handicapped living organism who uses various aliases on gmail.com.

I am more than suspicious of anyone using gmail or yahoo or similar to post messages.

Good for you? Again you'd be better off reading the contents of the email than coming up with conspiracy theories. I use gmail as it's simply the most convenient for me. My ISP provides a shitty email service and I don't particularly needing to change emails just because I change ISP. And my University only offers a crappy web client, no thanks.

If you know what you are talking about and express comments/suggestions/information from Novell/oS/KDE then use your real name and address and not hide behind a 'proxy' address.

Heh. You really need to relax.

-- "I do not instruct the uninterested; I do not help those who fail to try. If I mention one corner of a subject and the pupil does not deduce therefrom the other three, I drop him." Confucius

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Sven Burmeister wrote:

Am Mittwoch, 4. Februar 2009 09:19:39 schrieb Basil Chupin:

...

KDE 4.2 is officially released, right? Then put it into the normal update repositories for oS 11.1.

I thought you used (open)SUSE for a long enough time in order to know the policy about what is put into the normal update repos.

Sven

Until you answer my questions I asked in an earlier message and answer who you are working for I will ignore any, so called, comments which you may make. -- "I do not instruct the uninterested; I do not help those who fail to try. If I mention one corner of a subject and the pupil does not deduce therefrom the other three, I drop him." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Binner wrote:

On Sunday 08 February 2009 06:55:48 Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Until you answer my questions I asked in an earlier message and answer who you are working for I will ignore any, so called, comments which you

Great, I'm looking forward to fewer silly postings from you then. :-)

Bye, Steve

And we all can look forward to seeing less posting of inane nature from you? -- "I do not instruct the uninterested; I do not help those who fail to try. If I mention one corner of a subject and the pupil does not deduce therefrom the other three, I drop him." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

KDE 4.2 is officially released, right? Then put it into the normal update repositories for oS 11.1.

Ciao.

The upgrade process is far from smooth. And the expectation of users when installing OS stable (11.1) is that you'll not have to worry about updates other than bugfixes and security updates -- not have your whole environment yanked from under you. If you're into that sort of stuff -- try factory =) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 04 February 2009 05:18:45 Oliver wrote:

If nobody want 4.2 in the stable.rep, just create a 4.2 under the factory- thread and a 4.3 also.

That would be reasonable solution. This stable - factory - extra - community - .... doesn't help much to see what is in, without actually looking the directory on the server. This confusing naming is just result of attempt to develop distro releases independently from upstream process, but it seems that openSUSE developers are more often then before overloaded with sheer number of backports, to stable openSUSE release. It seems reasonable, as mentioned on openSUSE-project mail list, to think about shrinking base that is considered stable release on few base packages, and all other, desktop environments and applications, create as additional releases. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org