On Sunday 12 of October 2014 21:35:01 Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:

On Sunday 12 October 2014 21:27:29 šumski wrote:

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1. I cannot get systemsettings5 to show style and color configuration. I've already installed all possible packages from the repository which do not conflict with KDE4, still nothing. Right now kate5 looks so alien that I have to return back to kate 4.

Style & color KCM's are contained in plasma5-desktop package.

Hm... Which means that it is impossible to configure style and color of "KDE Applications 5" while still using KDE4 plasma workspace?

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2. I've tried neon5 and I see that it stores kdeglobals in ~/.project-neon5- kde/config and second copy in ~/.project-neon5-kde/share/config, but my local install creates all k* configs in ~/.config, which I do not want. Is that normal, or I'm missing something here?

It is normal that settings are stored in ~/.config and ~/.local/share, as these are standard XDG variables. You can override these, but that will take effect for other non-KDE apps that use the standard.

Other apps are using something like ~/.config/${vendor} (like QtCreator) or at least ~/.config/${app}, like chrome, mc, virtualbox, xchat2. But KF5 stores files directly under ~/.config, like ~/.config/kdeglobal, ~/.config/systemsettingsrc and so on. Is that really normal? Yes, it is really normal =) well, it is how it is =) i agree it would be easier, and cleaner to use a subdir.

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4. Tried to install kdm back - it wants some parts of KDE, again conflicting with plasma5. And I thought that DM should not be environment-specific...

There has been a few adjustements in how kde-workspace is package, so in Factory and 13.2, one can keep much more of KDE4 than with plain 13.1 (IOW you can have Plasma5 and KDM on the same system co-installed)

That's a good news. What about doing it backwards - using sddm and Plasma- Workspace 4 session? I guess that should also work. You'll just need to break the plasma5-workspace requires, and remove the [Theme] section from sddm.conf (the requires is only there as the breeze theme is provided by plasma5-workspace; i've talked with upstream already, and opinion is that one wouldn't want to use breeze theme w/o Plasma 5)

Cheers, Hrvoje

On Monday 13 of October 2014 12:48:35 Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:

On Sunday 12 October 2014 21:42:34 šumski wrote:

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Other apps are using something like ~/.config/${vendor} (like QtCreator) or at least ~/.config/${app}, like chrome, mc, virtualbox, xchat2. But KF5 stores files directly under ~/.config, like ~/.config/kdeglobal, ~/.config/systemsettingsrc and so on. Is that really normal?

Yes, it is really normal =) well, it is how it is =) i agree it would be easier, and cleaner to use a subdir.

But that means that .config will be spammed with hundreds of KF5 config files soon, will be uncomfortable to handle if needed... Is that compile-time configuration or hardcoded directly in KF5? It is 'hardcoded' into Qt5: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qstandardpaths.html#StandardLocation-enum As said, you can use env variables: http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html#varia...

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That's a good news. What about doing it backwards - using sddm and Plasma- Workspace 4 session?

I guess that should also work. You'll just need to break the plasma5-workspace requires, and remove the [Theme] section from sddm.conf (the requires is only there as the breeze theme is provided by plasma5-workspace;

Hm, but breeze comes as separate package, and I've installed that one. Even my kate5 looked like breeze should look like. Or does plasma5-workspace comes with another part of that theme, required for sddm? Breeze sddm theme is in plasma5-workspace, breeze Qt style is in a separate package.

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i've talked with upstream already, and opinion is that one wouldn't want to use breeze theme w/o Plasma 5)

Plasma 5 or KF5? As I wrote above, kate5 works fine with breeze. Or should I use oxygen instead? SDDM theme.

Cheers, Hrvoje

On Monday 13 of October 2014 13:58:55 Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:

On Monday 13 October 2014 13:41:17 šumski wrote:

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But that means that .config will be spammed with hundreds of KF5 config files soon, will be uncomfortable to handle if needed... Is that compile-time configuration or hardcoded directly in KF5?

It is 'hardcoded' into Qt5: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qstandardpaths.html#StandardLocation-enum

But then QSettings follows vendor and appName provided to QApplication... Well, doesn't matter, still little bit strange.

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As said, you can use env variables: http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html#va ria bles

But that will set configs location globally, or there is some way to use it only for KF5-based apps? Yes, globally...

Cheers, Hrvoje

KUbuntu has a KDE Plasma 2 preview build available on a live CD is anyone interested in making one for openSUSE? On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 3:45 AM, Stanislav Baiduzhyi <sbaiduzh@redhat.com> wrote:

Wolfgang,

I've had a chance to try out kate5 from your repositories. It works great, thank you very much for the effort. Including the export of XDG_* variables. Also, looks like kinit is required by most of kf5 apps, file open/save dialogs do not work without it.

One suggestion though, I think it would be more convenient to move kf5.sh script to separate package, so it will be possible to use it without installing the whole plasma5-session. In my case, I just downloaded rpm and extracted the script from it without installing, works pretty fine for running kate5 so far.

Also, general KF5 question... Many people are stating that KF5 can be used without full plasma5 session, and there were efforts in this direction, including oxygen5. But I was not able to make it work with anything but Qt5 Fusion style. Here is the list of problems I faced, if anyone knows how to resolve them - please tell me:

1. systemsettings5 fonts module cannot be installed without full plasma5 session, and I'm using 6pt font in KDE4 session, which is ignored by oxygen5 completely and default of 9pt is used.

2. systemsettings5 color is similar, for some reason Breeze color theme is used even with oxygen style, and the only way to change it is to replace Breeze.colors file with another color theme. I tried to copy the settings from full plasma5 session, but looks like there is some issue, color theme can be changed but cannot be applied, every record appears twice in configuration files.

3. Similar issue with styles, if Breeze is installed - it will be applied any way, the only way to change to oxygen5 is to uninstall breeze.

So, are those known issues or I'm again missing something?

On Sunday 12 October 2014 21:43:15 Wolfgang Bauer wrote:

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Am Sonntag, 12. Oktober 2014, 21:19:09 schrieb Stanislav Baiduzhyi:

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3. I've installed openSUSE 13.1 KDE on VirtualBox, then installed plasma5- session and all the dependencies it wanted, uninstalling kde4 completely. Changed displaymanager to sddm. After rebooting I see plain white screen instead of DM. Autologin was enable, it did not worked, so that's not only graphics issue.

That's probably because the default theme could not be loaded. The default is breeze, included in the package plasma5-workspace. You can change the theme in /etc/sddm.conf, set it to "elarun" e.g. and sddm should work without plasma5-workspace.

Probably some dependency should be added to the sddm package regarding this, or the default changed.

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On the internet everyone says that it is possible to have KDE4 and use some kf5-based apps, but I was not able to find a way to do it, so unless there is some magic way to do it which I missed - will have to stay with KDE4.

I maintain a repo on OBS which contains plasma5 packages and the kf5-based apps from KDE:Unstable:Frameworks that do _not_ conflict with KDE4. See here for more details: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2014-09/msg00068.html

In short, add my repo in addition to KDE:Qt5 and KDE:Frameworks5, and select "Switch system packages to the versions in this repository" in YaST or run "zypper dup --from xxx".

The apps are installed to /opt/kf5 so can be installed side-by-side with their KDE4 counterparts. Because of that, you cannot normally run them inside KDE4, but if you install my plasma5-session as well, type this in a Konsole and you can run the KF5 versions afterwards: . /opt/kf5/share/env/kf5.sh

But as I understand it, the "official" packages should work fine in KDE4, but of course you have to uninstall the corresponding KDE4 versions.

-- Regards, Stas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Montag, 27. Oktober 2014, 08:45:17 schrieb Stanislav Baiduzhyi:

Wolfgang,

I've had a chance to try out kate5 from your repositories. It works great, thank you very much for the effort. Including the export of XDG_* variables. Good to hear. :-)

Also, looks like kinit is required by most of kf5 apps, file open/save dialogs do not work without it. You mean, there's a dependency missing?

One suggestion though, I think it would be more convenient to move kf5.sh script to separate package, so it will be possible to use it without installing the whole plasma5-session. In my case, I just downloaded rpm and extracted the script from it without installing, works pretty fine for running kate5 so far. Well, when I created those packages, my foremost goal was to get Plasma 5 co- installable with KDE4. The applications were mostly added as bonus then to be able to use some KF5 applications inside the Plasma 5 session, and to test how far the porting went for those apps.

But I could split out the script, yes. I will think about it. But I guess I won't add a dependency on that script to all (application) packages, if that's what you have in mind. If you don't mind uninstalling the corresponding KDE4 application(s), you could of course also install those KF5 apps from KDE:Unstable:Frameworks as mentioned already, that's where I branch them from. You should be able to mix them with my packages (to fulfill the dependencies without removing KDE4), although some of them require newer KDE Frameworks already. (dolphin e.g., I had to patch out the latest commits there to get it build against the current release). This will of course get easier/safer when those apps get released and there are stable versions in KDE:Frameworks5. Btw, not everything the script does is necessary any more. E.g. I install the Qt5 and QML plugins now to /usr/share/qt5 (was necessary to get SDDM's breeze theme to work with my plasma5-workspace), they don't conflict with Qt4/KDE4 anyway. The only thing really necessary to start (at least most) KF5 applications is "export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/kf5/lib64", and maybe adding /opt/kf5/bin to the path (but you can also specify the full path to run them instead). Adding /opt/kf5/share to the XDG_DATA_DIRS might be necessary as well, but this somehow gets added automatically here in KDE4. Not sure at the moment where that comes from, I have to check... The stuff in /opt/kf5/etc/xdg/ will not be found (unless you set XDG_CONFIG_DIRS accordingly as well), but disregarding the desktop this only would affect some default settings and the "Get New Stuff" function AFAICS. I do consider moving those to /etc/xdg/ though as the corresponding KDE4 stuff is in /etc/kde4/share/config/ and /usr/share/kde4/config/ anyway.

1. systemsettings5 fonts module cannot be installed without full plasma5 session, and I'm using 6pt font in KDE4 session, which is ignored by oxygen5 completely and default of 9pt is used. The fonts KCM is in the package plasma5-desktop, yes, like many other KCMs. That's an upstream decision. (it wasn't any different in KDE4 either, although they have been split out to the subpackage kdebase4-workspace-addons recently) If you install my plasma5-desktop package, the fonts settings should work in systemsettings5 even without calling the kf5.sh script though.

2. systemsettings5 color is similar, for some reason Breeze color theme is used even with oxygen style, and the only way to change it is to replace Breeze.colors file with another color theme. I tried to copy the settings from full plasma5 session, but looks like there is some issue, color theme can be changed but cannot be applied, every record appears twice in configuration files. The color settings modules seem to have problems at the moment. There's this upstream bug report e.g.: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336813

The opensuse branding packages contain this changelog entry: - Don't hardcode colorscheme within kdeglobals, this is redundant with Plasma5 mechanism, and also has bad side-effect where users can't change the scheme But AFAICT this didn't completely fix the problem. Last time I tried after that change, I could change the colorscheme once, but then it was stuck again IIRC.

3. Similar issue with styles, if Breeze is installed - it will be applied any way, the only way to change to oxygen5 is to uninstall breeze. Breeze is the default theme, yes. But changing it to oxygen in systemsettings5 works fine here. The corresponding KCM is again in the package plasma5-desktop though.

Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 29 of October 2014 11:10:33 Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote: ...snip...

Yea I understand that your packages are solving it, I just want to make sure I understand the situation with the upstream, because it sounds highly illogical. They promise good cooperation between KF5 and any other desktop including KDE4, even release proper widget styling, and at the same time package dependencies make it close to impossible to configure those fonts, styles, color themes. I'll look into splitting relevant kcm's useful outside plasma session to a separate package. This was not done before cause well, there is -almost- nothing released to configure outside plasma session ;-) (and this is exactly the same situation as with 4.x workspaces - only with 13.2 and above one can configure kde4 style outside kde4 session)

Cheers, Hrvoje

On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 11:10, Stanislav Baiduzhyi <sbaiduzh@...> wrote:

On Tuesday 28 October 2014 11:47:31 Wolfgang Bauer wrote:

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Also, looks like kinit is required by most of kf5 apps, file open/save dialogs do not work without it. You mean, there's a dependency missing?

Yes, runtime dependency. It shows file open/save dialog, but shows error message that kinit is not running so you will not see any files in that dialog.

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But I could split out the script, yes. I will think about it. But I guess I won't add a dependency on that script to all (application) packages, if that's what you have in mind.

Dependency is not really needed, having the script would be more than enough.

Maybe a "Recomments" in the package that contains kinit, or bundle it there.

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1. systemsettings5 fonts module cannot be installed without full plasma5 session, and I'm using 6pt font in KDE4 session, which is ignored by oxygen5 completely and default of 9pt is used. The fonts KCM is in the package plasma5-desktop, yes, like many other KCMs. That's an upstream decision. (it wasn't any different in KDE4 either, although they have been split out to the subpackage kdebase4-workspace-addons recently) If you install my plasma5-desktop package, the fonts settings should work in systemsettings5 even without calling the kf5.sh script though.

Yea I understand that your packages are solving it, I just want to make sure I understand the situation with the upstream, because it sounds highly illogical. They promise good cooperation between KF5 and any other desktop including KDE4, even release proper widget styling, and at the same time package dependencies make it close to impossible to configure those fonts, styles, color themes. Oh well :) that's good we have you, for next 2 years or so we'll be able to use some pieces of KF5 still having stable KDE4-based workstations :)

IMHO, a few KCMs should be bundled with systemsettings5, and usable without other plasma5(-desktop) stuff, esp keyboard, mouse, fonts, colors and style should be configurable without needing plasma5 at all. That way many KF5 apps become fully useable without unneeded dependencies on plasma5, this would help the developing and testing of KF5 apps from within KDE4 or even GNOME or XFCE. None the less, a heartfelt "Thank You" for the work you all have done so far. - Yamaban. -- This "Reality" - Is that politically correct to use at all? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch, 29. Oktober 2014, 11:10:33 schrieb Stanislav Baiduzhyi:

On Tuesday 28 October 2014 11:47:31 Wolfgang Bauer wrote:

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Also, looks like kinit is required by most of kf5 apps, file open/save dialogs do not work without it.

You mean, there's a dependency missing?

Yes, runtime dependency. It shows file open/save dialog, but shows error message that kinit is not running so you will not see any files in that dialog. No, I meant is there a package dependency missing? As I understand it, your problem is that kinit is not installed automatically, right?

At the moment it is only required by plasma5-workspace: # rpm -e --test kinit error: Failed dependencies: kinit = 5.3.0 is needed by (installed) kinit-lang-5.3.0-38.2.noarch kinit is needed by (installed) plasma5-workspace-5.1.0-83.1.x86_64 So it won't get installed automatically if you don't install plasma5- workspace. The question is, to which package the dependency should be added. This is not a specific problem of my packages though, I'd say. So that change should IMHO better be done in the official repos if deemed necessary.

Yea I understand that your packages are solving it, I just want to make sure I understand the situation with the upstream, because it sounds highly illogical. They promise good cooperation between KF5 and any other desktop including KDE4, even release proper widget styling, and at the same time package dependencies make it close to impossible to configure those fonts, styles, color themes. Oh well :) Well, you probably should ask that upstream then, I suppose... ;)

Although as already mentioned, the packaging can be changed on openSUSE's side of course, i.e. the KCMs can be split out into their own sub-package e.g. But šumski has replied to that already anyway. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch, 29. Oktober 2014, 13:10:48 schrieb Stanislav Baiduzhyi:

Pretty much every one of them that uses open/save dialog. I encountered it with kate5 while trying to open file, or "save as" file. Yes, that was clear already... ;)

If my interpretation of KDE API is correct - kio provides that functionality, meaning that kinit should be pulled by kio. Not 100% sure though. Well, without checking, I would have guessed kio as well.

I just tried to uninstall kinit (with --nodeps to not have to remove plasma5- desktop as well) and can confirm the problem. So I'd say it would definitely make sense to add that dependency, especially in the view of KDE's 2014.12 release which will already include some KF5 applications. People might want to install them as replacement for the then practically unmaintained KDE4 versions, but keep using KDE4's plasma as desktop. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch, 29. Oktober 2014, 11:10:33 schrieb Stanislav Baiduzhyi:

On Tuesday 28 October 2014 11:47:31 Wolfgang Bauer wrote:

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But I could split out the script, yes. I will think about it. But I guess I won't add a dependency on that script to all (application) packages, if that's what you have in mind.

Dependency is not really needed, having the script would be more than enough.

Sorry for the delay. I have split out the script now, it is in the package "plasma5-session- envscript". This is required by "plasma5-session", so there is no change to users who want to run Plasma 5. If you want to run the applications outside a Plasma 5 session, you could change the .desktop files' Exec lines (with kmenuedit e.g.) to something like this: Exec=. /opt/kf5/share/env/kf5.sh; partitionmanager I have done exactly this in my "partitionmanager5" package and in "Dolphin - Super User Mode", because they are started as root which doesn't inherit the necessary environment even inside the Plasma 5 session. I think I'm not going to patch a hundred .desktop files myself though... ;) Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, 13. November 2014, 10:22:10 schrieb Stanislav Baiduzhyi:

Thanx for that short tutorial, I was wondering how to do that.

You can of course also run the script on login if you want to. (source it from ~/.bashrc or ~/.profile, or set it to be autostarted in KDE4's systemsettings-

Startup and Shutdown->Autostart e.g.)

It should not cause any problems (I haven't tried it myself yet, though), but it will of course "shadow" a KDE4 application if you have the corresponding KF5 app installed. After all it adds /opt/kf5/bin/ to the path before /usr/bin/. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, 13. November 2014, 14:30:42 schrieb Stanislav Baiduzhyi:

:) Thanx for suggestion, but I will not do that - I've uncommented XDG_CONFIG_HOME and other XDG settings, to isolate kf5 configs from the system. If I understand correctly - that will break all other apps.

Uncommented where? In my script? Then you probably shouldn't install the new package anyway, as your changes will be lost on every update. I don't think KDE4 uses those variables (I'm not sure though), but it will probably affect GNOME/GTK3 applications e.g. I suppose, and others that respect those variables (amongst others, Akonadi, LibreOffice and VLC, judging from the contents of my .config directory... ) It will not actually "break" them, but they will look for/save their configuration in ~/.kf5/ then instead of ~/.config/. The same with the data (normally in ~/.local/) and caches (~/.cache/) So maybe not really a good idea... Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday 22 November 2014 15:06:11 Wolfgang Bauer wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 13. November 2014, 15:17:48 schrieb Wolfgang Bauer:

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Am Donnerstag, 13. November 2014, 14:30:42 schrieb Stanislav Baiduzhyi:

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Thanx for suggestion, but I will not do that - I've uncommented XDG_CONFIG_HOME and other XDG settings, to isolate kf5 configs from the system. If I understand correctly - that will break all other apps. Uncommented where? In my script? Then you probably shouldn't install the new package anyway, as your changes will be lost on every update.

FYI, I changed the script now to additionally call /opt/kf5/share/env/kf5.sh.local if it exists. So you can put your custom changes (like setting those XDG_* variables) into that file and don't have to fear that they get lost on updates... ;)

Thanx! Will update right away then :) -- Regards, Stas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org