RE: [suse-kde] KDE 3.1 on 8.1, yet again
-----Original Message----- From: Kristian Koehntopp [mailto:kris@koehntopp.de] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:41 AM [...] I downloaded the Suse Linux KDE 3.1 packages from ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.1/SuSE/ix86/8.1/ into a directory (/mnt/kde). I then wrote the following little script
#! /bin/sh --
for i in /mnt/kde/*rpm do name="`rpm -q --queryformat="%{NAME}\n" -p $i" inst="`rpm -q $name 2>/dev/null" if [ -n "$inst" ] then echo "$i" else echo "#$i" fi done
to generate a file "inst" which contained the names of all files I was to install as well of all files I was not to install as comments. I hand-checked that file, enabled a few more packages manually, and
# grep -v "^#" inst > inst2 # rpm -U `cat inst2`
was all that was necessary to install the update. Make sure to logout, get a text mode console and "init 3", then "init 5" the system to get a fresh X server, a new KDM instance and after login a new KDE 3.1 session.
KDM is part of kdebase3-kdm-3.1-51 and installs to /opt/kde3/bin/kdm in Suse Linux 8.1.
Kristian
OK, thanks. That's likely what I'll be doing tonight, then. :-) By the way, anybody, is the ftp.kde.org site faster than the ftp.gwdg.de site? My original major update (that I said took 18 hours) was done via my ADSL connection, but apt-get reported speeds between 200B/s and 28.6kB/s, mostly with the gwdg site. While we are on the topic, can somebody please let me know what I *should* have done to have the KDE3.1 install and work directly off the repository(ies)?? What is so special about KDE3.1 that it is more resistant to installing than any of 1000 other packages that successfully went in? In order to get a working KDE3.1 onto my system, I would have been HAPPY to sacrifice existing programs from my system, if they somehow conflicted. I would equally have been HAPPY to forget about any pending non-KDE3.1 updates/upgrades if THEY were somehow in conflict. I made choices with apt-get, and then with synaptic, to resolve any reported conflicts or dependency problems, before I gave the big go-ahead. Why would it still crap out? My rpm database was in whatever state YaST/YOU had left it. I have never installed ANY apps from source. I have never issued a --force or --nodeps (to my knowledge). Is there a command option for apt-get that says "I don't care what you have to do to get KDE3.1 in and working, just do it"?? I don't mean --nodeps, or anything that will leave me with a bunch of time-bombs. I mean, if a package/program/ library already on my system is in conflict, then that package/program/library gets ripped out, automatically, and KDE3.1 goes in. Is there a way to do that without going package-by-package, by hand? I figure that once I had KDE3.1 working and stable, I could worry about re-installing other apps that were sacrificed... or finding replacements could peacefully co-exist. /kevin
Op dinsdag 4 februari 2003 16:41, schreef KMcLauchlan@chrysalis-its.com:
<snipped Kristian's post>
KDM is part of kdebase3-kdm-3.1-51 and installs to /opt/kde3/bin/kdm in Suse Linux 8.1.
Kristian
OK, thanks. That's likely what I'll be doing tonight, then. :-)
Kevin, I'm a little disappointed in reading your post, sorry to say. Did you read the webpage about apt (let's say) for suse? It contains many answers on the question you posted. Including the question directly below. The "howto" can be found at http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm
By the way, anybody, is the ftp.kde.org site faster than the ftp.gwdg.de site?
See http://apt4rpm.sourceforge.net select repositories from the left frame and look for SuSE.
My original major update (that I said took 18 hours) was done via my ADSL connection, but apt-get reported speeds between 200B/s and 28.6kB/s, mostly with the gwdg site.
While we are on the topic, can somebody please let me know what I *should* have done to have the KDE3.1 install and work directly off the repository(ies)??
What is so special about KDE3.1 that it is more resistant to installing than any of 1000 other packages that successfully went in?
It is not, it will only update about ~20 pkgs. As stated on the "howto" page you should remove the component base among many other (suse-people e.g) components. http://apt4rpm.sourceforge.net/faq.html#q27 As the "howto" page stated in case of doubt ask the apt4rpm-suse emaillist. It would have saved you a lot of time, effort and bytes.
In order to get a working KDE3.1 onto my system, I would have been HAPPY to sacrifice existing programs from my system, if they somehow conflicted. I would equally have been HAPPY to forget about any pending non-KDE3.1 updates/upgrades if THEY were somehow in conflict.
In your case: only include the components "kde" and "kde3-stable" in the /etc/apt/sources.list file. Now do an apt-get upgrade and see what you get.
I made choices with apt-get, and then with synaptic, to resolve any reported conflicts or dependency problems, before I gave the big go-ahead. Why would it still crap out?
YOU is not as strict concerning rpm dependencies as apt.
My rpm database was in whatever state YaST/YOU had left it. I have never installed ANY apps from source. I have never issued a --force or --nodeps (to my knowledge).
BTW: you may still have conflicts according apt, but these should be resolved easily.
Is there a command option for apt-get that says "I don't care what you have to do to get KDE3.1 in and working, just do it"??
Now of course not! Apt cares about a consistent (packages wise) system.
I don't mean --nodeps, or anything that will leave me with a bunch of time-bombs. I mean, if a package/program/ library already on my system is in conflict, then that package/program/library gets ripped out, automatically, and KDE3.1 goes in. Is there a way to do that without going package-by-package, by hand? I figure that once I had KDE3.1 working and stable, I could worry about re-installing other apps that were sacrificed... or finding replacements could peacefully co-exist.
You probably get a message telling that some packages (among kdebase3, kdelibs etc) are being kept back. Just continue with those packages by executing apt-get install kdebase3 You'll will be prompted that Keramik will be replaced by rpm X answer yes and continue -> apt-get -s upgrade or just apt-get install <any packages you like> -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
On Tuesday 04 February 2003 15:44, Richard Bos wrote: [...]
It is not, it will only update about ~20 pkgs. As stated on the "howto" page you should remove the component base among many other (suse-people e.g) components. http://apt4rpm.sourceforge.net/faq.html#q27
Well, my thinking was probably wrong... (gosh, that *never* happens... :-). I thought that: a) I might as well get the large number of items updated all at once (not just KDE), so that any dependencies or conflicts among them would be resolved simultaneously (for the bulk of the update/upgrade, that seems to have been the case) b) If I asked for KDE3.1 at the same time, it would either get sorted out with respect to all the other packages (non-kde stuff), or would indicate which old, installed stuff that I should mark for removal, so that KDE3.1 would go in smoothly. Of course, I was wrong, but I have not understood *why* I was wrong.
As the "howto" page stated in case of doubt ask the apt4rpm-suse emaillist. It would have saved you a lot of time, effort and bytes.
When I first saw mention of apt4rpm in the apt-get pages, I followed the link, which seemed to imply that I needed to install that app only if I was creating my own repositories. So, I ignored it. I'm using existing repositories, and the apt components that I already have installed seem able to find the remote databases, make decisions about the contents, download the indicated packages, and perform installation or upgrades. Do I, in fact, still need apt4rpm, after all?
In your case: only include the components "kde" and "kde3-stable" in the /etc/apt/sources.list file. Now do an apt-get upgrade and see what you get. [...] You probably get a message telling that some packages (among kdebase3, kdelibs etc) are being kept back. Just continue with those packages by executing apt-get install kdebase3 You'll will be prompted that Keramik will be replaced by rpm X answer yes and continue -> apt-get -s upgrade or just apt-get install <any packages you like>
What I did was to copy the sources.list file from one of the major repositories to my /etc/apt directory. Then I edited it and removed the line that pointed to source rpms, and I edited the remaining line to remove all components except "kde" and "kde3-stable". I ran apt-get, but was not successful, so I started synaptic (I'm more visual...). Synaptic returned: "Error: sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (5)" Hmm. So I did Update again and then sorted (in Synaptic) on "Broken". This showed a package list with three items in it: Broken Installed Available ===== ======= ======= kdebase3 3.0.4-32 3.1-51 kdebase3-SuSE 8.1-56 kdenetwork3-lan 3.0.4-7 3.1-61 I selected all three and told Synaptic to "Fix". It responded by eliminating kdebase3-SuSE and kdenetwork3-lan, leaving just kdebase3 to be upgraded (but thankfully no longer marked "broken"). Ok.... so I said Upgrade. Synaptic came back with "Error: sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (31)" I did some googling, but did not discover what those numeric error codes represent. Maybe, they were not Synaptic or apt specific. I do have all the files downloaded to a local directory, from ftp.gwdg.de last night (all the kde3 stuff and the associated qt stuff, etc. that was in the ---/SuSE8.1/kde3-stable directory). I can't run apt-get on that local directory, because it does not contain a suitable database to identify to apt what the files are for. At this point, I thought of downloading and installing apt4rpm, to make my own repository, but I knew that I would still be trying to make that work when the sun came up (it was already past midnight), so I put that thought aside. Instead I tried to just run rpm. Using rpm on the contents of the downloaded kde3-stable stuff directory, I was just chasing my own tail with dependency spirals. Gave up and went to bed at 02:00. Tonight I may futz some more with apt, or I may attempt Kristian's approach... and thereby learn all the things that can go wrong when trying to use a simple script. :-) /kevin
Am Mi 5.Februar 2003 18:11 schrieb Kevin McLauchlan:
Tonight I may futz some more with apt, or I may attempt Kristian's approach... and thereby learn all the things that can go wrong when trying to use a simple script. :-)
Well, the script itself will do nothing and break nothing. It just generates a list (of packages that you might wish to install). Between generating the list and actually acting upon it there is this phase where you are supposed to stop and think. :-) Good luck! Kristian -- http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/wishlist/18E5SVQ5HJZXG
On Wednesday 05 February 2003 18:11, Kevin McLauchlan wrote:
On Tuesday 04 February 2003 15:44, Richard Bos wrote:
[...]
When I first saw mention of apt4rpm in the apt-get pages, I followed the link, which seemed to imply that I needed to install that app only if I was creating my own repositories. So, I ignored it. I'm using existing repositories, and the apt components that I already have installed seem able to find the remote databases, make decisions about the contents, download the indicated packages, and perform installation or upgrades. Do I, in fact, still need apt4rpm, after all?
AFAIK: No. apt4rpm is needed for creating (and sharing) repositories. [...]
Synaptic returned: "Error: sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (5)" [...] Synaptic came back with "Error: sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (31)"
Uuhhm... You did run synaptic as root, did you? :-} Cheers, Leen
On Thursday 06 February 2003 03:59, Leendert Meyer wrote:
Synaptic returned: "Error: sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (5)"
[...]
Synaptic came back with "Error: sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (31)"
Uuhhm... You did run synaptic as root, did you? :-}
Yup. Sometimes starting it from a terminal, using sux - Once from a gnome session, logged in as root (yes, I was getting desperate :-) Last night disappeared for other reasons, so I have not had a chance to try recent suggestions. Tonight, I light the fuse again, and duck for cover... again. Cheers, /kevin
On Thursday 06 February 2003 14:56, Kevin McLauchlan wrote:
On Thursday 06 February 2003 03:59, Leendert Meyer wrote:
Synaptic returned: "Error: sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (5)"
[...]
Synaptic came back with "Error: sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (31)"
Uuhhm... You did run synaptic as root, did you?
:-}
Yup. Sometimes starting it from a terminal, using sux - Once from a gnome session, logged in as root (yes, I was getting desperate :-)
I think you should focus on fixing the rpm-database. Use only the repositories with SuSE's "official" files. I guess that would be base, kde, sax2, security, and update (base would be enough after a fresh install of 8.1). I usually do: # apt-get update # apt-get -s upgrade first. "update" will get the package lists from the server, "-s upgrade" will simulate an upgrade. If I'm satisfied with the "simulation", I do: # apt-get upgrade # SuSEconfig Once I had a broken rpm-database too. I've forgotten what I did, but I think I removed the offending packages and started without them. If your rpm-database is well, and apt-get shows no errors, you can add more repositories to /etc/apt/sources.list (be carefull, e.g. with ximian! - rtfm). Cheers, Leen
Am Di 4.Februar 2003 16:41 schrieb KMcLauchlan@chrysalis-its.com:
By the way, anybody, is the ftp.kde.org site faster than the ftp.gwdg.de site?
Both are located within the WIN (Wissenschaftsnetz, German scientific network). That is, if you are coming in via a transatlantic line they should perform comparably. p15104972:~ # traceroute ftp.kde.org ... 5 ir-frankfurt2.g-win.dfn.de (80.81.192.222) 2.918 ms 3.007 ms 2.960 ms 6 cr-frankfurt1.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.80.37) 3.365 ms 3.682 ms 3.794 ms 7 cr-koeln1.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.18.86) 7.201 ms 7.265 ms 7.375 ms 8 ar-koeln2.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.84.3) 7.347 ms 7.327 ms 7.473 ms 9 kr-bonn.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (131.220.254.2) 8.844 ms 9.102 ms 9.222 ms 10 sr1-rz-vlan3.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (131.220.1.249) 9.954 ms 10.062 ms 10.034 ms 11 subraum.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (131.220.60.97) 9.980 ms 9.968 ms 9.922 ms p15104972:~ # traceroute ftp.gwdg.de ... 5 ir-frankfurt2.g-win.dfn.de (80.81.192.222) 3.058 ms 3.024 ms 2.998 ms 6 cr-frankfurt1.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.80.37) 12.930 ms 13.186 ms 13.066 ms 7 cr-hannover1.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.18.182) 8.192 ms 8.162 ms 8.140 ms 8 ar-goettingen1.g-win.dfn.de (188.1.88.74) 10.488 ms 10.462 ms 10.440 ms 9 c12012-int.gwdg.de (134.76.249.201) 10.826 ms 10.942 ms 10.912 ms 10 134.76.249.204 11.195 ms 11.311 ms 11.307 ms 11 ftp.gwdg.de (134.76.11.100) 11.238 ms 11.223 ms 11.202 ms As you can see, both traceroutes pass into the Win at hop 5 from my POV of the net. Both routes turn to different targets from hop 7 on down within the WIN. If you observe different performance, it will be load-related and depends more or less on the time of day and the load level of the local WIN within the Koeln/Bonn region compared to the Hannover/Goettingen region.
What is so special about KDE3.1 that it is more resistant to installing than any of 1000 other packages that successfully went in?
The procedure I described worked flawlessly first time I tried. One of the reasons I do not use apt or apt4rpm is that my Debian experience with apt was so abysmal. Half of the time Debian apt left me with a dialogue with rougly the meaning of "installation of package ... failed. You have the choice of a) never installing a package again or b) deleting all packages that have ever heard of the new package, including your X server and all software development packages you can think of." only worded differently. Using rpm and a shell script I can at least preview what will happen to my system and control which dependencies I chose to ignore or which ones I have to work around. Kristian -- http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/wishlist/18E5SVQ5HJZXG
On Tuesday 04 February 2003 17:58, Kristian Koehntopp wrote: [...]
One of the reasons I do not use apt or apt4rpm is that my Debian experience with apt was so abysmal. Half of the time Debian apt left me with a dialogue with rougly the meaning of "installation of package ... failed. You have the choice of a) never installing a package again or b) deleting all packages that have ever heard of the new package, including your X server and all software development packages you can think of." only worded differently.
Oh, you evil man! Next time you are in Ottawa, Canada, I must buy you a beer. :-) You realize, of course, that you have just described most of my experience with Linux in general, in almost the words that I would use? And I've never even met Debian (just SuSE and RH).
Using rpm and a shell script I can at least preview what will happen to my system and control which dependencies I chose to ignore or which ones I have to work around.
Well, since I'd already beaten myself up with apt-get, I thought I'd take one more swing using Richard Bos' recent comments. If that doesn't work, then I'll try your procedure and see what /b/r/e/a/k/s/... er... happens. Thanks, /kevin
participants (6)
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Kevin McLauchlan -
Kevin McLauchlan -
KMcLauchlan＠chrysalis-its.com
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Kristian Koehntopp -
Leendert Meyer -
Richard Bos