[opensuse-kde] Pulse Audio for KDE for 11.2
Hello, to accompany Martin's mail, there is one more sound-related issue for 11.2, that was shortly discussed after the yesterday's meeting had been already over. There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default). KDE has no hard dependency on Pulse Audio (unlike, as far as I understood, GNOME), so we can handle this issue ourselves. Even if we decide to disable it by default for KDE, there would be of course still the option to enable it, for those who would like that (it's in the YAST sound module somewhere). So, just like with GStreamer/Xine, we'd be intestered in preferences and technical reasons for them. I added Pulse Audio as a topic for the next IRC meeting, but assuming there is a clear consensus, we could try this already for Milestone6 to get testing. -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer -------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 084 672 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
2009/8/7 Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz>:
Hello,
to accompany Martin's mail, there is one more sound-related issue for 11.2, that was shortly discussed after the yesterday's meeting had been already over.
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default). KDE has no hard dependency on Pulse Audio (unlike, as far as I understood, GNOME), so we can handle this issue ourselves. Even if we decide to disable it by default for KDE, there would be of course still the option to enable it, for those who would like that (it's in the YAST sound module somewhere).
So, just like with GStreamer/Xine, we'd be intestered in preferences and technical reasons for them.
I added Pulse Audio as a topic for the next IRC meeting, but assuming there is a clear consensus, we could try this already for Milestone6 to get testing.
If there isn't a KDE PulseAudio mixer app (with per-application volume control and so) I don't see the merit of enabling it. There is one? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 of August 2009, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:
2009/8/7 Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz>:
I added Pulse Audio as a topic for the next IRC meeting, but assuming there is a clear consensus, we could try this already for Milestone6 to get testing.
If there isn't a KDE PulseAudio mixer app (with per-application volume control and so) I don't see the merit of enabling it. There is one?
Not that I know of. KMix has some support for PA, but only basic and Coolo didn't talk very nicely of it. It looks like it will have to be the Gtk tools for PA for now. -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer -------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 084 672 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 August 2009 17:47:18 Lubos Lunak wrote:
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default). KDE has no hard dependency on Pulse Audio (unlike, as far as I understood, GNOME), so we can handle this issue ourselves. Even if we decide to disable it by default for KDE, there would be of course still the option to enable it, for those who would like that (it's in the YAST sound module somewhere).
I am not sure if GNOME has really a hard requirement on it. Most of the GNOME applications will fallback to the default ESD sound daemon, which is still present in 11.2. On my own system I just tried to de-install as much as possible from PulseAudio and the only dependency that I encountered was kmix. I am using a couple of GNOME applications and they procedure nicely sounds through ESD or even directly ALSA. I took the decision to deinstall it as that I was facing the problem that with PA active, kmix starts with the sound muted. Removing PA solved that issue completely :) Regards Raymond
2009/8/7 Raymond Wooninck <tittiatcoke@gmail.com>:
On Friday 07 August 2009 17:47:18 Lubos Lunak wrote:
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default). KDE has no hard dependency on Pulse Audio (unlike, as far as I understood, GNOME), so we can handle this issue ourselves. Even if we decide to disable it by default for KDE, there would be of course still the option to enable it, for those who would like that (it's in the YAST sound module somewhere).
I am not sure if GNOME has really a hard requirement on it. Most of the GNOME applications will fallback to the default ESD sound daemon, which is still present in 11.2.
See https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file?file=gnome&package=gnome-sessio... export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulse if test -f /etc/alsa-pulse.conf ; then export ALSA_CONFIG_PATH=/etc/alsa-pulse.conf fi When running Gnome SDL outputs sound through the Pulse backend and every ALSA app gets redirected to PulseAudio. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 August 2009 22:11:17 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:
I am not sure if GNOME has really a hard requirement on it. Most of the GNOME applications will fallback to the default ESD sound daemon, which is still present in 11.2.
See https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file?file=gnome&package=gnome-sessi on&project=openSUSE%3AFactory
export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulse if test -f /etc/alsa-pulse.conf ; then export ALSA_CONFIG_PATH=/etc/alsa-pulse.conf fi
When running Gnome SDL outputs sound through the Pulse backend and every ALSA app gets redirected to PulseAudio.
If PA is being removed then this means that every ALSA app is communicating directly with the ALSA drivers. The only issue that remains are the applications that depends on the SDL audiodrivers. These will require the PA soundserver, but maybe this could also be checked before the SDL_AUDIODRIVER is exported ? Raymond
2009/8/7 Raymond Wooninck <tittiatcoke@gmail.com>:
On Friday 07 August 2009 22:11:17 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:
I am not sure if GNOME has really a hard requirement on it. Most of the GNOME applications will fallback to the default ESD sound daemon, which is still present in 11.2.
See https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file?file=gnome&package=gnome-sessi on&project=openSUSE%3AFactory
export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulse if test -f /etc/alsa-pulse.conf ; then export ALSA_CONFIG_PATH=/etc/alsa-pulse.conf fi
When running Gnome SDL outputs sound through the Pulse backend and every ALSA app gets redirected to PulseAudio.
If PA is being removed then this means that every ALSA app is communicating directly with the ALSA drivers. The only issue that remains are the applications that depends on the SDL audiodrivers. These will require the PA soundserver, but maybe this could also be checked before the SDL_AUDIODRIVER is exported ?
Yes. What I wanted to say is that this is the part from where "in openSUSE Gnome uses PulseAudio" comes from. Sure, it could be improved. It has a "# TODO: look for a better fix for 11.1" just before... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Hello, Raymond Wooninck <tittiatcoke@gmail.com> wrote
(...) I took the decision to deinstall it as that I was facing the problem that with PA active, kmix starts with the sound muted. Removing PA solved that issue completely :)
Muted channels is an ALSA issue, whereas PA is a sound server and does not touch ALSA settings at all. To be on the safe way, save your ALSA channel settings: make the settings with kmix according to your needs, then save them with this command: /usr/sbin/alsactl -f ~/.my-sound-settings store and with the following command you can load these settings at any time again if needed or lost: /usr/sbin/alsactl -f ~/.my-sound-settings restore You can put this command in a little shell script e.g. in ~/.kde4/Autostart/ so your settings would be loaded each time you login to KDE :-) Malte -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 August 2009 22:30:20 Malte Gell wrote:
I took the decision to deinstall it as that I was facing the problem that with PA active, kmix starts with the sound muted. Removing PA solved that issue completely :)
Muted channels is an ALSA issue, whereas PA is a sound server and does not touch ALSA settings at all.
How come that after I removed PA the issue with KMIX starting up mute, is gone ? You can also check the following bugs: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=513023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=520426
To be on the safe way, save your ALSA channel settings: make the settings with kmix according to your needs, then save them with this command:
I do not loose my channel settings, the only issue that occurs is that the Master Channel is muted on startup. All other settings are correct and stay correct. Raymond
Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz> wrote
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default).
What are the reasons to disable PA by default? Since arts is gone, why should KDE4 be left without any sound server at all? Most sound cards do not support hardware mixing, this means you *need* a sound server to play audio from several sourced at once, e.g. playing music while wathcing some video on the web. Wouldn't a clean integration of a sound server like PA make sense? The only app I am aware of that has issues with sound servers and that should rather directly use the ALSA device is Skype. I use PA successfully with 11.1 and KDE 4.3.0, works like a charm. And PA has a nice GUI tool. Malte -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
2009/8/7 Malte Gell <malte.gell@gmx.de>:
Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz> wrote
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default).
What are the reasons to disable PA by default? Since arts is gone, why should KDE4 be left without any sound server at all? Most sound cards do not support hardware mixing, this means you *need* a sound server to play audio from several sourced at once, e.g. playing music while wathcing some video on the web. Wouldn't a clean integration of a sound server like PA make sense?
When the sound card doesn't supports HW mixing ALSA uses dmix by default since a long time ago. There is no need for a sound server if the only thing you want is software mixing. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Cristian Morales Vega <cmorve69@yahoo.es> wrote
2009/8/7 Malte Gell <malte.gell@gmx.de>:
Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz> wrote
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default).
What are the reasons to disable PA by default? Since arts is gone, why should KDE4 be left without any sound server at all? Most sound cards do not support hardware mixing, this means you *need* a sound server to play audio from several sourced at once, e.g. playing music while wathcing some video on the web. Wouldn't a clean integration of a sound server like PA make sense?
When the sound card doesn't supports HW mixing ALSA uses dmix by default since a long time ago. There is no need for a sound server if the only thing you want is software mixing.
How can I check, whether dmix is correctly running? I just noticed, without sound server I was not able to listen to MP3 music and to e.g. KDE system sound at the same time... And when I used Skype I was not able to use a media player at the same time, so I guess I don't have a running dmix plugin? PA allows other useful things too, so one can use different volume settings for different audio sources. For example use low volume for system sound while wathcing some stuff on the web browser :-) Malte -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 7. August 2009 23:11:53 schrieb Malte Gell:
Cristian Morales Vega <cmorve69@yahoo.es> wrote
2009/8/7 Malte Gell <malte.gell@gmx.de>:
Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz> wrote
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default).
What are the reasons to disable PA by default? Since arts is gone, why should KDE4 be left without any sound server at all? Most sound cards do not support hardware mixing, this means you *need* a sound server to play audio from several sourced at once, e.g. playing music while wathcing some video on the web. Wouldn't a clean integration of a sound server like PA make sense?
When the sound card doesn't supports HW mixing ALSA uses dmix by default since a long time ago. There is no need for a sound server if the only thing you want is software mixing.
How can I check, whether dmix is correctly running? I just noticed, without sound server I was not able to listen to MP3 music and to e.g. KDE system sound at the same time... And when I used Skype I was not able to use a media player at the same time, so I guess I don't have a running dmix plugin?
Sounds like my usual pulseaudio symptoms... Karsten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
2009/8/7 Malte Gell <malte.gell@gmx.de>:
Cristian Morales Vega <cmorve69@yahoo.es> wrote
2009/8/7 Malte Gell <malte.gell@gmx.de>:
Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz> wrote
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default).
What are the reasons to disable PA by default? Since arts is gone, why should KDE4 be left without any sound server at all? Most sound cards do not support hardware mixing, this means you *need* a sound server to play audio from several sourced at once, e.g. playing music while wathcing some video on the web. Wouldn't a clean integration of a sound server like PA make sense?
When the sound card doesn't supports HW mixing ALSA uses dmix by default since a long time ago. There is no need for a sound server if the only thing you want is software mixing.
How can I check, whether dmix is correctly running? I just noticed, without sound server I was not able to listen to MP3 music and to e.g. KDE system sound at the same time... And when I used Skype I was not able to use a media player at the same time, so I guess I don't have a running dmix plugin?
About the dmix thing... no idea, it's supposed to work always automatically (note that OSS apps or ALSA apps using hw: or plughw: could block it). You will have to ask in the ALSA ML.
PA allows other useful things too, so one can use different volume settings for different audio sources. For example use low volume for system sound while wathcing some stuff on the web browser :-)
Yes, (when works) it also has a lower power consumption and the network transparency is nice to have. Per-application sound control is *the* thing that would make me vote for PulseAudio. But we need an app that supports the PA mixer API. Change KMix for pavucontrol isn't IMHO an option for KDE. I just looked to KMix... it links to libpulse-mainloop-glib and libpulse, but looking at the source (http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdemultimedia/kmix/mixer_pulse.cpp?view=mark...) the support doesn't seems to be very complete. And looking at the app, at Help->Hardware Information it says: Sound drivers supported: ALSA + OSS + PulseAudio Sound drivers used: ALSA ...but I see no way to change that to use PulseAudio. If KMix doesn't supports PulseAudio and there is no other *KDE* mixer app that supports it then IMHO PulseAudio is out of the question. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag 07 August 2009 schrieb Malte Gell:
Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz> wrote
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default).
What are the reasons to disable PA by default? Since arts is gone, why should KDE4 be left without any sound server at all? Most sound cards do
openSUSE doesn't use arts since at least 10.0 - we rely on alsa's dmix Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 August 2009 17:47:18 Lubos Lunak wrote:
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default). KDE has no hard dependency on Pulse Audio (unlike, as far as I understood, GNOME), so we can handle this issue ourselves. Even if we decide to disable it by default for KDE, there would be of course still the option to enable it, for those who would like that (it's in the YAST sound module somewhere).
Right now, pulse is the only easy way I have to play sound over HDMI. The YaST sound settings won't do it at all. From a tip on factory I'm able to force mplayer to do it, but all other sounds are over pulse or not at all. So if you disable pulseaudio, please make sure that the yast sound module has a way of selecting the sound output channel Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 of August 2009, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Friday 07 August 2009 17:47:18 Lubos Lunak wrote:
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default). KDE has no hard dependency on Pulse Audio (unlike, as far as I understood, GNOME), so we can handle this issue ourselves. Even if we decide to disable it by default for KDE, there would be of course still the option to enable it, for those who would like that (it's in the YAST sound module somewhere).
Right now, pulse is the only easy way I have to play sound over HDMI. The YaST sound settings won't do it at all. From a tip on factory I'm able to force mplayer to do it, but all other sounds are over pulse or not at all.
So if you disable pulseaudio, please make sure that the yast sound module has a way of selecting the sound output channel
This sounds like a bug somewhere (not KDE) to me. Pulse uses eventually ALSA anyway, so it Pulse is able to do it, why shouldn't ALSA be able to do it on its own too? I think you should rather report a Yast or sound bug for this. -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer -------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 084 672 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 7. August 2009 17:47:18 schrieb Lubos Lunak:
Hello,
to accompany Martin's mail, there is one more sound-related issue for 11.2, that was shortly discussed after the yesterday's meeting had been already over.
There is fate feature #305888 (Disable Pulse Audio by default). KDE has no hard dependency on Pulse Audio (unlike, as far as I understood, GNOME), so we can handle this issue ourselves. Even if we decide to disable it by default for KDE, there would be of course still the option to enable it, for those who would like that (it's in the YAST sound module somewhere).
So, just like with GStreamer/Xine, we'd be intestered in preferences and technical reasons for them.
I added Pulse Audio as a topic for the next IRC meeting, but assuming there is a clear consensus, we could try this already for Milestone6 to get testing.
Thinking abit about it PA seems to be the way forward everybody is taking, if dumping it for now (I am fine with that) we should think it over for every upcomming release, especially if there will be a proper kmix for it. Karsten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 of August 2009, Karsten König wrote:
Thinking abit about it PA seems to be the way forward everybody is taking, if dumping it for now (I am fine with that) we should think it over for every upcomming release, especially if there will be a proper kmix for it.
Yes, but this is about now. For 11.1 it was clearly a mistake to enable it, so now the question is if now already the number of people benefiting from PA enabled by default is worth the number of people who would still have a problem because of it. -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer -------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 084 672 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Anders Johansson -
Cristian Morales Vega -
Karsten König -
Lubos Lunak -
Malte Gell -
Raymond Wooninck -
Stephan Kulow