[opensuse-kde] "Configure Desktop" is now an application?
Having just done zypper up on a TW installation I wanted to run through systemsettings5. The old style menu now has Configure KDE4 Applications" at the base level, but instead of "Configure Desktop" (systemsettings5) at the base level, or in System, or in Utilities, it's in Applications. Is that on purpose? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 14. August 2015, 02:35:48 schrieb Felix Miata:
Having just done zypper up on a TW installation I wanted to run through systemsettings5. The old style menu now has Configure KDE4 Applications" at the base level, but instead of "Configure Desktop" (systemsettings5) at the base level, or in System, or in Utilities, it's in Applications. Is that on purpose?
It always was an application, but in the old SUSE menu it was listed at the top level in "Applications". KDE's upstream menu structure that is used by openSUSE in the KF5 packages lists it in "Applications", and probably did so in KDE4 too (haven't checked though). But, in 5.3.95 (5.4 Beta), Kickoff (is that what you mean with "old-style menu"?) additionally lists it on the "Computer" tab. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday, August 14, 2015 03:46:47 PM Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
It always was an application, but in the old SUSE menu it was listed at the top level in "Applications". KDE's upstream menu structure that is used by openSUSE in the KF5 packages lists it in "Applications", and probably did so in KDE4 too (haven't checked though).
In KDE4, it does. Regards, Rick -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 14. August 2015, 10:05:27 schrieb Rick Chung:
On Friday, August 14, 2015 03:46:47 PM Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
It always was an application, but in the old SUSE menu it was listed at the top level in "Applications". KDE's upstream menu structure that is used by openSUSE in the KF5 packages lists it in "Applications", and probably did so in KDE4 too (haven't checked though).
In KDE4, it does.
Yeah, openSUSE's KDE4 also lists systemsettings5 in "Applications". But I meant that KDE4 upstream would maybe list KDE4's systemsettings in "Applications" too. I had a look now, and the difference is that in openSUSE's KDE4 systemsettings.desktop file the category "X-SuSE-core" has been added which makes it appear at the top-level, while that's missing in Plasma5's systemsettings.desktop. Might be on purpose or an oversight (it is added in kdesystemsettings.desktop, the menu entry "KDE System Settings" for non-KDE desktops), no idea. But it was an openSUSE change in the first place. One problem is that it wouldn't be displayed at all if it has the same name and category as systemsettings (in KDE4 at least), because Kickoff filters out duplicates. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Wolfgang Bauer <wbauer@tmo.at> wrote:
Am Freitag, 14. August 2015, 10:05:27 schrieb Rick Chung:
On Friday, August 14, 2015 03:46:47 PM Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
It always was an application, but in the old SUSE menu it was listed at the top level in "Applications". KDE's upstream menu structure that is used by openSUSE in the KF5 packages lists it in "Applications", and probably did so in KDE4 too (haven't checked though).
In KDE4, it does.
Yeah, openSUSE's KDE4 also lists systemsettings5 in "Applications". But I meant that KDE4 upstream would maybe list KDE4's systemsettings in "Applications" too.
I had a look now, and the difference is that in openSUSE's KDE4 systemsettings.desktop file the category "X-SuSE-core" has been added which makes it appear at the top-level, while that's missing in Plasma5's systemsettings.desktop. Might be on purpose or an oversight (it is added in kdesystemsettings.desktop, the menu entry "KDE System Settings" for non-KDE desktops), no idea. But it was an openSUSE change in the first place.
One problem is that it wouldn't be displayed at all if it has the same name and category as systemsettings (in KDE4 at least), because Kickoff filters out duplicates.
Kind Regards, Wolfgang
-- If you type desktop into the search bar Desktop Setting shows up and you can pin it to your favorites with a right mouse select.
Steven -- ____________ Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice. Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22 Owner Flex-1500 and Flex-3000 Flex-6300, FT-857D, FT-817ND openSUSE Linux 13.1 KDE, Tumbleweed KDE with Packman Known as FlameBait and The Sock Puppet of Doom. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-08-14 15:46 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
Having just done zypper up on a TW installation I wanted to run through systemsettings5. The old style menu now has Configure KDE4 Applications" at the base level, but instead of "Configure Desktop" (systemsettings5) at the base level, or in System, or in Utilities, it's in Applications. Is that on purpose?
It always was an application,
That just seems wrong. In a broad sense I suppose it is, but it is special, and deserves to be a root level item like it's historically been in openSUSE.
but in the old SUSE menu it was listed at the top level in "Applications". KDE's upstream menu structure that is used by openSUSE in the KF5 packages lists it in "Applications", and probably did so in KDE4 too (haven't checked though).
But, in 5.3.95 (5.4 Beta), Kickoff (is that what you mean with "old-style menu"?) additionally lists it on the "Computer" tab.
Name changes are the pits, obfuscating or destroying opportunity to investigate roots instead of keeping opportunity to know or discover where things originally came from. It very often seems like upstream doesn't care about genealogy. This is the menu I have on host gx780: On 13.1/KDE4: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/startMenu-131K4-gx780-201508.jpg On TW/Kwhateveritssupposedtobecallednow: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/startMenu-TW-k5-gx780-201508.jpg Wolfgang Bauer composed on 2015-08-14 17:45 (UTC+0200):
openSUSE's KDE4 also lists systemsettings5 in "Applications". But I meant that KDE4 upstream would maybe list KDE4's systemsettings in "Applications" too.
I had a look now, and the difference is that in openSUSE's KDE4 systemsettings.desktop file the category "X-SuSE-core" has been added which makes it appear at the top-level, while that's missing in Plasma5's systemsettings.desktop. Might be on purpose or an oversight (it is added in kdesystemsettings.desktop, the menu entry "KDE System Settings" for non-KDE desktops), no idea. But it was an openSUSE change in the first place.
One problem is that it wouldn't be displayed at all if it has the same name and category as systemsettings (in KDE4 at least), because Kickoff filters out duplicates.
Is the filtering methodology the problem here? Which is "Kickoff"? Application Launcher? Application Menu? I guess it's the one I don't like and never use. Until v5, I didn't get why the Win98 style, whatever its name has morphed into now, isn't still everyone's favorite. Like before, with the new "alternatives" language for switching between the two menu styles, it's still not evident what the name of the one that is preferred and/or selected with a simple right click - it still takes at least one more click to make the discovery, and more still to land at the original starting point. The host gx780 screenshots are from after I figured out how to not have the v5 classic menu style usability regression (scrollbar instead of using the vast expanse of available screen real estate; virtually invisible and far too skinny scrollbar; far too many selections in one root category; recent as a category instead of an extention of the root level): http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/startMenu-TW-k5-gx745-201508.jpg :~( The morphing of the various KDE components has apparently either swelled well beyond the capacity of upstream U11Y/A7Y people to provide desperately needed input, or those to whom given aren't taking it into account. e.g. [1] :-( What exactly are we supposed to call what we're talking about here? The mailing list is still opensuse-kde. How do we decide between "applications", "plasma", "frameworks", or whatever other names upstream has provided or suggested? [1] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=262695 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=297217 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=297219 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346122 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 14. August 2015, 14:13:08 schrieb Felix Miata:
It always was an application,
That just seems wrong. In a broad sense I suppose it is, but it is special, and deserves to be a root level item like it's historically been in openSUSE.
Well, file a bug report at KDE's bugzilla. But again, the .desktop file (menu entry) shipped with the application specifies to which categories it should belong. The menu structure (/etc/xdg/menus/kf5-application.menu for openSUSEś current KF5 packages) specifies in which submenu applications with what categories should be listed. openSUSE modified the KDE4 menu entry to appear at the top-level, this isn't done for the Plasma5 one for some reason. As mentioned, this might just be an oversight. But again, having both the KDE4 and the Plasma5 version at the top-level will cause one of them to disappear if your system uses a different language than english. The menu entries use the upstream "Systemsettings" then. "Configure Desktop" always was an openSUSE-specific change too.
Name changes are the pits, obfuscating or destroying opportunity to investigate roots instead of keeping opportunity to know or discover where things originally came from.
Well, "Systemsettings" have been renamed in openSUSE, because they are user settings mostly. The system settings are in YaST.
It very often seems like upstream doesn't care about genealogy. This is the menu I have on host gx780:
On 13.1/KDE4: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/startMenu-131K4-gx780-201508.jpg
On TW/Kwhateveritssupposedtobecallednow: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/startMenu-TW-k5-gx780-201508.jpg
What do you want to prove with those pictures now? Again, KDE4's "Configure Desktop" is at the top-level, because openSUSE chhanged it to be there. And in TW, KDE4's "Configure Desktop" has been renamed to "Configure KDE4 Applications" to avoid confusion with Plasma5's "Configure Desktop".
Is the filtering methodology the problem here?
No. The problem basically is that the menu entry of the KDE4 version specifies it should be displayed at the top level (a modification by openSUSE), whereas the menu entry of the Plasma5 version doesn't.
Which is "Kickoff"? Application Launcher? Application Menu?
Application Launcher, the one that was the default in KDE4, and actually still is in Plasma5. But openSUSE's branding sets Kicker as default.
I guess it's the one I don't like and never use.
Well that's your "problem"...
What exactly are we supposed to call what we're talking about here? The mailing list is still opensuse-kde. How do we decide between "applications", "plasma", "frameworks", or whatever other names upstream has provided or suggested?
Why are you even asking? This mailinglist is for all things related to the current supported KDE packages (whatever version) in openSUSE. This doesn't include KDE3 though, as there is a dedicated mailing list for that, and it is not supported by openSUSE's KDE team. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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Felix Miata -
Rick Chung -
Steven Hess -
Wolfgang Bauer