[opensuse-kde] When to move KDE 4.2 into KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop
Hi, I've been wondering what the best plan for moving KDE 4.2 into KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop is. The current state is: KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Desktop: KDE 4.1.3, based on openSUSE 11.1 (including non- released updates). KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop: devel project for kde4 related packages in openSUSE:Factory, currently loosely in sync with :STABLE but not quite. KDE:KDE4:UNSTABLE:Desktop: KDE 4.2x based snapshots, which are not really synced with openSUSE fixes/additions in :Factory. The next steps: KDE 4.1.4 will be released soon, probably marking the end of KDE 4.1.x regular patch releases. It could enter :Factory:Desktop, but not :STABLE. KDE 4.2 rc1 will be released soon, giving a good opportunity to merge :UNSTABLE into :Factory and freeing up :UNSTABLE for KDE 4.3 development, which starts next week. On the downside, KDE 4.1.4 won't be packageable then. Any opinions? I'm leaning towards merging the current :UNSTABLE state into :Factory and enable syncing when patches etc have been merged. This would allow early development to start, but on the other side will irritate openSUSE 11.1 users (:Factory:Desktop is currently the recommended openSUSE BuildService KDE4 repository). Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 05 January 2009 17:54:33 Dirk Müller wrote:
Any opinions? I'm leaning towards merging the current :UNSTABLE state into :Factory and enable syncing when patches etc have been merged. This would allow early development to start, but on the other side will irritate openSUSE 11.1 users (:Factory:Desktop is currently the recommended openSUSE BuildService KDE4 repository).
I would vote for this arrangement. As far as I understand the KDE4 repos,
STABLE is the one to follow if you want "rock solid" and Factory is the one
for the slightly more adventurous ones of us... Thus rc1 in the Factory would
be fine in my opinion. (On a personal note I'm planning to upgrade to 11.1 when
rc1 comes available and this would reduce some reposwapping. ;-) )
Vesa
Am Montag, 5. Januar 2009 16:54:33 schrieb Dirk Müller:
KDE 4.1.4 will be released soon, probably marking the end of KDE 4.1.x regular patch releases. It could enter :Factory:Desktop, but not :STABLE.
KDE 4.2 rc1 will be released soon, giving a good opportunity to merge
:UNSTABLE into :Factory and freeing up :UNSTABLE for KDE 4.3 development,
which starts next week. On the downside, KDE 4.1.4 won't be packageable then.
Those that want STABLE, i.e. just security updates, will get what they want. Those that want feature-updates will have to wait a few weeks until KDE 4.2 will be released, but will also get what they want. And those that want unstable, i.e. KDE 4.3 will also get what they want. The only group left out will be the one that wants the non-security fixes of KDE 4.1.4 but not the new features of KDE 4.2, which does not make sense to me. Adding to that, nobody I know who is using KDE 4.2, wants to go back to KDE 4.1.x.
Any opinions? I'm leaning towards merging the current :UNSTABLE state into
:Factory and enable syncing when patches etc have been merged. This would
allow early development to start, but on the other side will irritate openSUSE 11.1 users (:Factory:Desktop is currently the recommended openSUSE BuildService KDE4 repository).
Recommended by who? If whoever recommends it sticks to the "Factory" is what is being developed for "Factory" then those users know that they will get whatever KDE will be in 11.2, which is certainly not KDE 4.1.x. Since it is not sure that KDE 4.3 will make it into openSUSE 11.2, KDE 4.2 is what will be worked on for Factory, hence it has to go into Factory. And unstable gets whatever KDE is currently unstable, so it would be KDE 4.3 after 4.2 got branched. Another question is, what will happen, if it becomes clear that KDE 4.3 will make it into 11.2. Then there is no room for KDE 4.2 anymore and Factory has to be updated to KDE 4.3. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Mandag 05 januar 2009 16:54:33 skrev Dirk Müller:
Any opinions? I'm leaning towards merging the current :UNSTABLE state into
:Factory
Dropping/ignoring 4.1.4 is ok with me - I think every reasonable person will want either stable (4.1.3) or 4.2 anyway. Having 4.2 in :Factory is ok too. But it's a bit short term, because what happens when 4.3 (beta?) needs to go into factory in 3 monhts or so? The state as of late April or thereabouts would be like this: :Stable - 4.1.3 :Factory - 4.3 beta :Unstable: 4.3 beta With no place for 4.2. Maybe it would be best to address that problem right away. I guess it'll require the creation of a new project for 4.2 (Maybe call it :KDE-Release or something of the sort). Unless 4.2 could remain in :Factory until 4.3 release. And 4.3 could remain in :Unstable only - even after it's actually part of Factory - but that could be confusing too I guess, bending the rules of the repo structure - so I think I have to vote for the creation of a new project for 4.2 in this case. It could easily happen again in the future that openSUSE would skip a KDE release. So I guess there needs to be some place to put KDE releases that are neither "stable" nor "factory" from openSUSE point of view. ... of course it's not yet quite official whether 11.2 will have 4.3 or 4.2, but I guess we all expect it to be 4.3. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Factory should be the target for 11.2, right? I thought the general consensus was that 4.1.4 is being skipped and 4.2 or 4.3 was the target for 11.2. Personally I would love test the current :UNSTABLE as :Factory. But is this going to be a wasted effort since 4.3 might be the target for 11.2? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 7. Januar 2009 05:20:42 schrieb Marc Benstein:
Personally I would love test the current :UNSTABLE as :Factory. But is this going to be a wasted effort since 4.3 might be the target for 11.2?
Since 4.3 would be based on 4.2, how can testing it be a waste? Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 06 January 2009, Martin Schlander wrote:
Dropping/ignoring 4.1.4 is ok with me - I think every reasonable person will want either stable (4.1.3) or 4.2 anyway.
Good.
Having 4.2 in :Factory is ok too. But it's a bit short term, because what happens when 4.3 (beta?) needs to go into factory in 3 monhts or so?
It is progress. There is significant difference between 4.1 and 4.2 already packaging wise, I would like to consolidate the changes as soon as possible, because there are probably tons of patches to rediff and things to fix.
The state as of late April or thereabouts would be like this: :Stable - 4.1.3 :Factory - 4.3 beta :Unstable: 4.3 beta
With no place for 4.2. Maybe it would be best to address that problem right away.
Well, it is a ressource issue. we could in theory start a KDE:KDE42, but somebody has to maintain it. One of the main reasons for the current repository layout is that it is the way we work anyway, so it doesn't add work. maintaining a seperate KDE 4.2 is possible, if either: a) 11.2 comes sooner than anticipated at the moment (leaving a KDE 4.2.x based desktop the only option) or b) we've developed based on KDE 4.2.1 or 4.2.2 on :Factory and are reasonable confident that we can move it into :STABLE before switching to KDE 4.3. c) we move it into a seperate project as soon as KDE 4.3 is entering Factory, and let it RIP there.
It could easily happen again in the future that openSUSE would skip a KDE release.
Yeah, as long as we have such a long release schedule for a monolithic release, then yes. My idea is that we no longer have to do that in the future, e.g. we can ship a KDE 4.2 for opensuse 11.1 users when we consider it stable. Its only respinning the live CD anyway :) Okay, we're not prepared for such a split of the base distro and the rest yet, but think about the future, I believe it might be possible. Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Onsdag 07 januar 2009 11:23:49 skrev Dirk Müller:
With no place for 4.2. Maybe it would be best to address that problem right away.
Well, it is a ressource issue. we could in theory start a KDE:KDE42, but somebody has to maintain it. One of the main reasons for the current repository layout is that it is the way we work anyway, so it doesn't add work.
maintaining a seperate KDE 4.2 is possible, if either:
a) 11.2 comes sooner than anticipated at the moment (leaving a KDE 4.2.x based desktop the only option)
or
b) we've developed based on KDE 4.2.1 or 4.2.2 on :Factory and are reasonable confident that we can move it into :STABLE before switching to KDE 4.3.
c) we move it into a seperate project as soon as KDE 4.3 is entering Factory, and let it RIP there.
I think "c)" would be my preference. If/when 4.3 beta is moved to Factory - better to have unmaintained 4.2 packages in a separate repo for 2-3 months - than no 4.2 at all. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
2009/1/5 Dirk Müller
Any opinions? I'm leaning towards merging the current :UNSTABLE state into :Factory and enable syncing when patches etc have been merged. This would allow early development to start, but on the other side will irritate openSUSE 11.1 users (:Factory:Desktop is currently the recommended openSUSE BuildService KDE4 repository).
Since openSUSE 11.1 zypper/YaST supports "services" (http://duncan.mac-vicar.com/blog/archives/351). Shouldn't we start to use them to avoid this problem in the future? There is people that added UNSTABLE just because they wanted KDE 4.2, no because they really wanted unstable. They wanted 4.2 because they feel 4.1.x wasn't good enough... but if they like 4.2 they will not want 4.3. With services we could redirect them from UNSTABLE to Factory automatically (while others could still add UNSTABLE directly if they want so). The big problem is that ZYpp doesn't downgrades if you don't say so very explicitly. Once they update to a beta of 4.3 they will not be able to downgrade to Factory just changing the repo and executing a "zypper up". ...but yes, your plan looks fine to me even if it will irritate some users. Since we are talking about these repos... why only Factory (no STABLE or UNSTABLE) has a "KDE4-DEFAULT" ymp/pattern? It would be easier to test UNSTABLE if I could run a "zypper in -t pattern KDE4-DEFAULT".
participants (6)
-
Cristian Morales Vega -
Dirk Müller -
Marc Benstein -
Martin Schlander -
Sven Burmeister -
Vesa Muhonen