[opensuse-kde] KDE Factory warning
Hey Since using the KDE Factory repository will most likely be a rather bumpy ride in the coming months, because of 11.3+1 skipping KDE 4.5 and getting 4.6, I thought it was best to warn people now, when a lot of people are tempted to upgrade to 4.4.5. The below text is copied from my blog. ======================================= With openSUSE 11.3 less than a week away, soon it’ll be time to think about 11.3+1 which will be released in March 2011 with KDE SC 4.6. This should interest people using the KDE Factory repository a great deal, because it means that Factory should move to KDE SC 4.5 RC very shortly, and in November it will move to KDE SC 4.6 Beta. Leaving users with no choice other than using 4.6 Beta or downgrading to 4.4.4 which will be the version officially supported in 11.3 and available in the KDE Stable repository. In other words, if you don’t wish to use KDE SC 4.6 Beta in November, don’t use the KDE Factory repository! Switch to the KDE Stable repository, which already has 4.4.4. Consider yourself warned. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Why not create a KDE:/45 repo now? It could be officially maintained till November (and Factory be just a link to /45) and then left to the community (of whom either a few pick up the work or at least keep an unmaintained SC 4.5 until 4.6 reaches stable status in February or so). Markus On Friday 09 July 2010 19:12:18 Martin Schlander wrote:
Hey
Since using the KDE Factory repository will most likely be a rather bumpy ride in the coming months, because of 11.3+1 skipping KDE 4.5 and getting 4.6, I thought it was best to warn people now, when a lot of people are tempted to upgrade to 4.4.5. The below text is copied from my blog.
=======================================
With openSUSE 11.3 less than a week away, soon it’ll be time to think about 11.3+1 which will be released in March 2011 with KDE SC 4.6.
This should interest people using the KDE Factory repository a great deal, because it means that Factory should move to KDE SC 4.5 RC very shortly, and in November it will move to KDE SC 4.6 Beta. Leaving users with no choice other than using 4.6 Beta or downgrading to 4.4.4 which will be the version officially supported in 11.3 and available in the KDE Stable repository.
In other words, if you don’t wish to use KDE SC 4.6 Beta in November, don’t use the KDE Factory repository! Switch to the KDE Stable repository, which already has 4.4.4. Consider yourself warned. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
2010/7/9 Markus S. <markus.s@kdemail.net>:
Why not create a KDE:/45 repo now? It could be officially maintained till November (and Factory be just a link to /45) and then left to the community (of whom either a few pick up the work or at least keep an unmaintained SC 4.5
I have been doing this since... always. So feel free to add me as maintainer/bugowner of such a repo. I would not be looking at KDE SVN for security fixes, but I could keep it building and updated to newer minor versions. To avoid problems to users I agree, the best way is to do the main development in KDE:45 and aggregate from Factory until it moves to 4.6. But that's not so good for devs, that expect K:D:F to be the development KDE repo. The best thing would be to keep K:D:F as now, and aggregate from KDE:45 (but yes, create it "now"). But at some point those aggregates will need to be converted to own copies... and that will mean a full rebuild, with release numbers doing funny things (not a problem with "zypper dup --from K:D:F", but some people will do a "zypper up"). Any way to keep the release numbers higher after the change? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 09 July 2010 19:43:06 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:
Any way to keep the release numbers higher after the change?
Add a new bugfix release (SC 4.5.4 or whatever will be released in November) to the repo... :-) What are the stumbling blocks to create /45 now? Markus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 10 of July 2010, Markus Slopianka wrote:
On Friday 09 July 2010 19:43:06 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:
Any way to keep the release numbers higher after the change?
Add a new bugfix release (SC 4.5.4 or whatever will be released in November) to the repo... :-)
What are the stumbling blocks to create /45 now?
- somebody doing the work - people getting even more confused by which repo to use (KDE:<version> vs vs KDE:Distro:Stable vs KDE:Distro:Factory) - I don't remember if there were also other problems when we tried KDE:42, KDE:43 But I would not be really against this if people in this thread offering support are offering more than moral support. Such versioned repos would need to be separated from KDE:Distro:Factory before that one switches to a newer minor release version. -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
2010/7/12 Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz>:
On Saturday 10 of July 2010, Markus Slopianka wrote:
On Friday 09 July 2010 19:43:06 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:
Any way to keep the release numbers higher after the change?
Add a new bugfix release (SC 4.5.4 or whatever will be released in November) to the repo... :-)
What are the stumbling blocks to create /45 now?
- somebody doing the work
As said I want it for myself. So I could do the work, meaning: - I'm not a KDE dev. I'm not subscribed to KDE ML and I don't follow SVN. What I can do is keep it building and updated, little more. - I will test the parts I use. Don't expect me to install eric to verify it doesn't segfaults at start. - Bug reports against such a repo: I would take care of them, but I don't consider them very high priority if it's a problem already fixed in KDE 4.6 (I'm not going to backport/create fixes). - I would stop maintaining it the day K:D:F starts providing KDE 4.6.0 final. - I'm interested in keep it for openSUSE *11.3*. Older versions and SLE... I would fix problems in them when I were really bored. So *if it's going to be just me* perhaps it's better to not build against != 11.3 at all. But I don't expect it to break so often. Most of the time the fix should be to just add (link from another project) a newer library not provided by the old openSUSE version. So, if people can tolerate a delay of a week/ten days, old openSUSE versions builds can be kept.
- people getting even more confused by which repo to use (KDE:<version> vs vs KDE:Distro:Stable vs KDE:Distro:Factory)
The most problematic part would be getting people to change to Factory when 4.6.0 is released. Not sure about the best idea... name the repo "KDE:latest_release_version_from_upstream" ;-) an start aggregating it (or keeping a redirect at download.opensuse.org) again from K:F:D?
- I don't remember if there were also other problems when we tried KDE:42, KDE:43
Well, that's important. I'm expecting this to be a low (once a month) maintainership task. Being the most problematic part keeping some patches applying when packages are updated to new micro versions. But once a new KDE 4.5.x version is ready it shouldn't need to be touched at all until the next update from upstream. I'm wrong? In my view this will be: - The repo is created as an aggregate (redirect at download.opensuse.org?) of K:D:F soon before the day K:D:F starts providing KDE 4.5. Once 4.5.0 is released publishing is enabled. - I do nothing special until K:D:F starts providing KDE 4.6. - It would be great if you sync the move to 4.6 with a 4.5.x release. The day the repo would start being independent of K:D:F it will be providing a new version, so users have no problems with updates. - Everything is working. The update meant just substituting the version tag in spec files and updating the tarball. No more than ten packages stopped building, because a patch didn't apply anymore. The patch was either easily refreshed or not needed anymore. - No problems until the next month, when a new upstream version is released. Once again it just means updating tarballs and version tags ("osc collab update" is doing all the work?). I have 5 days between it being tagged and released (I need to create tarballs from SVN? Do you have early access to the official ones?) - Every month this is repeated. - Some independent apps have new releases from time to time. These are now links from K:D:F... sometimes they break and I create a local patch (no need to pollute K:D:F packages because of this). - KDE 4.6.0 is released and this repo deleted. If that's enough, create the repo and put me as maintainer/bugowner. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 12 of July 2010, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:
2010/7/12 Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz>:
On Saturday 10 of July 2010, Markus Slopianka wrote:
What are the stumbling blocks to create /45 now?
- somebody doing the work
As said I want it for myself. So I could do the work, meaning:
This topic will be discussed at today's IRC meeting (http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:KDE_Meetings).
- I would stop maintaining it the day K:D:F starts providing KDE 4.6.0 final. - I'm interested in keep it for openSUSE *11.3*. Older versions and SLE... I would fix problems in them when I were really bored. So *if it's
Hmm, that's not much of a commitment. If that's all you and everybody else would do, it would mean a repo working for a month for one version, in which case it might be better to keep it under somebody's home: rather than "official" under KDE: .
- I don't remember if there were also other problems when we tried KDE:42, KDE:43
Well, that's important. I'm expecting this to be a low (once a month) maintainership task. Being the most problematic part keeping some patches applying when packages are updated to new micro versions. But once a new KDE 4.5.x version is ready it shouldn't need to be touched at all until the next update from upstream. I'm wrong?
That is the theory.
In my view this will be: - The repo is created as an aggregate (redirect at download.opensuse.org?) of K:D:F soon before the day K:D:F starts providing KDE 4.5. Once 4.5.0 is released publishing is enabled. - I do nothing special until K:D:F starts providing KDE 4.6.
Makes sense.
- It would be great if you sync the move to 4.6 with a 4.5.x release. The day the repo would start being independent of K:D:F it will be providing a new version, so users have no problems with updates. - Everything is working. The update meant just substituting the version tag in spec files and updating the tarball. No more than ten packages stopped building, because a patch didn't apply anymore. The patch was either easily refreshed or not needed anymore. - No problems until the next month, when a new upstream version is released. Once again it just means updating tarballs and version tags ("osc collab update" is doing all the work?). I have 5 days between it being tagged and released (I need to create tarballs from SVN? Do you have early access to the official ones?)
Tarballs are made accessible to packagers. Since Dirk builds them anyway, the work could be probably shared.
- Every month this is repeated.
Not really, there usually not further x.y-1.z releases once x.y.0 is out and there is not more than one release during the beta cycle of the next minor version.
- Some independent apps have new releases from time to time. These are now links from K:D:F... sometimes they break and I create a local patch (no need to pollute K:D:F packages because of this).
If the repository contains KDE SC 4.x , then only the SC should be there IMO. Independent apps can come from KDE:Extra. -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
2010/7/22 Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz>:
On Monday 12 of July 2010, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:
2010/7/12 Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz>:
On Saturday 10 of July 2010, Markus Slopianka wrote:
What are the stumbling blocks to create /45 now?
- somebody doing the work
As said I want it for myself. So I could do the work, meaning:
This topic will be discussed at today's IRC meeting (http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:KDE_Meetings).
Sorry. No way I will be able to be there today. :-(
- I would stop maintaining it the day K:D:F starts providing KDE 4.6.0 final. - I'm interested in keep it for openSUSE *11.3*. Older versions and SLE... I would fix problems in them when I were really bored. So *if it's
Hmm, that's not much of a commitment. If that's all you and everybody else would do, it would mean a repo working for a month for one version, in which case it might be better to keep it under somebody's home: rather than "official" under KDE: .
I thouht 3 months/versions. Looking at in in more detail... K:D:F will move to KDE 4.6 at November 24, 2010, with Beta 1 release? So the latest version of KDE 4.5.x at K:D:F will be 4.5.3 from first days of November? An KDE:45 repo would mean 4.5.4 at first days of december and 4.5.5 at first days of january 2011? (with KDE 4.6 released January 26, 2011). Well, this looking at KDE 4.4.x. But if "there is not more than one release during the beta cycle of the next minor version" then there will be no 4.5.5. So one, perhaps two, versions for two months? I don't have a problem it being in a home (Dirk's?) repo. The only thing that worried me about this was that multiple home:XXX:KDE45 repositories could be created. But if everything is done in *one* specific home repo I have no major problems.
- Some independent apps have new releases from time to time. These are now links from K:D:F... sometimes they break and I create a local patch (no need to pollute K:D:F packages because of this).
If the repository contains KDE SC 4.x , then only the SC should be there IMO. Independent apps can come from KDE:Extra.
I was thinking about Amarok and K3B, packages that are already in K:D:F. But, since what users of a KDE:45 repo want is the latest stable release, these probably shoud come from KDE:UpdatedApps. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 09 July 2010 19:29:34 Markus S. wrote:
Why not create a KDE:/45 repo now? It could be officially maintained till November (and Factory be just a link to /45) and then left to the community (of whom either a few pick up the work or at least keep an unmaintained SC 4.5 until 4.6 reaches stable status in February or so).
I'd second that! Nico
On 07/10/2010 11:25 AM, Nico Kruber wrote:
On Friday 09 July 2010 19:29:34 Markus S. wrote:
Why not create a KDE:/45 repo now? It could be officially maintained till November (and Factory be just a link to /45) and then left to the community (of whom either a few pick up the work or at least keep an unmaintained SC 4.5 until 4.6 reaches stable status in February or so).
I'd second that!
Nico
+1 -- Cheers! Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 11 July 2010 00:48:54 todd rme wrote:
Would it be KDE:45 or KDE:Distro:45? Or maybe put it whether Unstable is being put?
-Todd
Not Distro. SC 4.5 is no openSUSE release. In the same parent folder as UNSTABLE should work... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag 09 Juli 2010, 19:12:18 schrieb Martin Schlander:
[...]
In other words, if you don’t wish to use KDE SC 4.6 Beta in November, don’t
use the KDE Factory repository! Switch to the KDE Stable repository, which
already has 4.4.4. Consider yourself warned.
But be warned, that KDE:Distro:Stable does not contain all apackages in the same version KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop had. Even though the latter was the devel project for the factory distribution there are some packages, that have not been pushed into openSUSE Factory for inclusion in openSUSE 11.3 (For example NetworkManager-kde4-0.9.svn1128615 with it's well working plasmoid) or not been copied to KDE:Distro:Stable (For example qt-creator 1.3.1). Therefore KDE:Distro:Stable doesn't include these more up to date packages. The packages can be found in KDE:UpdatedApps instead, but unfortunately the packages to not build against plain openSUSE 11.2 or older, so one cannot get them from KDE:UpdatedApps either. If you need these packages the easiest way to get them is to upgrade the upcoming openSUSE 11.3 together with KDE:UpdatedApps, Herbert -- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
Cristian Morales Vega -
Herbert Graeber -
Lubos Lunak -
Markus S. -
Markus Slopianka
-
Martin Schlander -
Nico Kruber -
Roman Bysh