Heya, I see quite a bit if misconceptions around the new search infrastructure in KDE. I would strongly suggest you read this article: http://dot.kde.org/2014/02/24/kdes-next-generation-semantic-search And this where we asked for help in testing: http://dot.kde.org/2014/03/12/applications-413-coming-soon-help-us-test I put in a lot of time to write both articles, create liveCD's so you could help test, ask people for testing etcetera. Now it seems some issues were not caught by testing. If you did test and filed a grave bug but it did not get fixed, you can complain about release management and you have every right to be taken very serious. You put in work, after all. If you did not help test but you found a problem, well, I understand. You might not have had time to help. Then, file a bug now, we will fix it asap. But don't waste your and our time complaining about how OTHER PEOPLE did not do enough testing: if YOU want to make sure YOUR features work, then TEST YOURSELF. If you had no time, then accept that we can't test everything. And we can't delay a release forever, waiting for others (you?) to finally decide they have time to test it. If it works for us and everybody who has tested it, we release it. Simple as that. Sorry, that is reality with volunteer work that you are NOT paying for. Then. Some of you complain this should not have been turned of by default, or it should be more plugin-based and easier to install. First about the turned-on-by-default: Search is on by default in Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS and even GNOME. With the improvements to search (see article above) we felt confident we solved the issues for 95% of our users and were able to follow into the 21st century. I tested baloo extensively and all the issues I had were fixed by Vishesh (its main developer) before the release. There is only so much we can do, especially without help from all of you. Meanwhile, it works for most users, so sorry that you're part of the small group it does NOT work for: if you had time to test, that could have been avoided. Now you didn't, that is fair, but realize that we can't do anything about you not having time to help us test. So don't blame us. About the 'I want to uninstall it; it should be a plugin; etc'. Funny thing is: Baloo and Akonadi are exactly what you want: modular and because of that, very complex. That is why they have been so problematic for so long: it is very hard to get such a flexible, plugin based technology stable and performant. Actually, Baloo is a lot less flexible than nepomuk was, that is why the new KDE Semantic Search is so much faster and more stable: we took away flexibility. Making everything runtime/plugin based increases complexity. If you want it simple, fast and stable (but not flexible and everything hard coded) use GNOME. Or accept that it takes a bit longer and that it takes more testing (did you help test?) to get it right the way KDE is doing it. About the KNotes issue: the developers rewrote that part because they could no longer maintain the old version. The choice was between rewriting it to make use of common infrastructure, or just removing it. The rewrite looses some functionality, and it clearly has a bug: not always importing all notes properly. This WAS tested and it worked for the developers and at least the people who tested, so I guess some here are just unlucky. Or did not help test. Again, the same: if you would have helped test, the importing would have been more robust. You had no time, that is fair, but then accept that we don't get paid to test or can't pay people to test, so this is all we could do. We would love to get 10 extra, paid developers and 100 paid testers. This would probably then not happen... Of course, if you think we made the wrong choice and should simply have dropped KNotes, you can always simply remove it and accept that we did not have enough volunteers to maintain the old version. That, too, sucks and you can blame a random person (just pick a colleague next to you in the office for example) for not stepping up and maintaining KNotes. Or be happy that somebody at least did the work they did to keep it around and will hopefully add the functionality you are missing... Again, I'm sorry for the issues. So are other KDE developers. But we can't change the world as it is and yelling at us doesn't help. On the contrary, it does the opposite: there is little reason to put in your free time when people just yell at you for doing something for them for free. If you have questions, ask. If you think I'm crazy, fair enough. But if you comment, at least be reasonable and realistic. We can't bend reality so don't expect us to. And be fair and put in some effort to understand what we do and why before you start complaining. As a wise man once said: a fool can ask more questions than the wisest man on earth can answer. Don't be a fool. The world has enough of those. Cheers, Jos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Jos Poortvliet
Heya,
I see quite a bit if misconceptions around the new search infrastructure in KDE. I would strongly suggest you read this article: http://dot.kde.org/2014/02/24/kdes-next-generation-semantic-search And this where we asked for help in testing: http://dot.kde.org/2014/03/12/applications-413-coming-soon-help-us-test
I put in a lot of time to write both articles, create liveCD's so you could help test, ask people for testing etcetera.
Definitely worth the read!
Now it seems some issues were not caught by testing. If you did test and filed a grave bug but it did not get fixed, you can complain about release management and you have every right to be taken very serious. You put in work, after all.
I've just updated to the latest Baloo and re-enabled it (clean config with no previous index). CPU load is not even noticeable. I cannot see any significant hit on the system at all with indexing. The index itself is a LOT smaller this time around (less than 1MB vs 6GB last test) - possibly because it did not traverse my network this time and try to index a 2TB NAS drive. The only thing I miss is an explicit On/Off toggle - and to be honest that would only be needed to toggle it off in situations where Baloo was either unwanted... or if things went crazy in some corner case. I've installed Milou as well... I assume that shows up as a somewhat transparent plugin to Dolphin etc? I've explicitly excluded /mnt/second_drive/Games, and I've explicitly excluded my NAS drive. I noticed that Baloo also auto-excludes USB sticks and external USB drives. Clicking through the search in Dolphin gives me some initial results. I'm not (yet?) seeing content related results (for example searching for text I know is in an ODT sitting in /home/$USER/Desktop. Am I expecting more here than Baloo can achieve? Searching on Filename gives the results I expect. So... disk I/O is practically zero during the initial indexing. Search works and presents results I'd expect (at least for filename content). Now I just have to figure out if I'd ever actually use it :-P C. -- openSUSE 13.1 x86_64, KDE 4.13 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 06:41 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
First about the turned-on-by-default: Search is on by default in Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS and even GNOME.
That's a weak argument. It amounts to "everybody else is doing it so why shouldn't we?" "Yes Jimmy, if all your friend jumped off the cliff you should too". Go, Lemmmings, Go! Jos, you seem to have missed the point that people are saying. Its not about who else had it "on by default", Its about the face that previously KDE didn't. Its about consistency of behaviour/operation, which is one of the aspects of good design, a good user interface. You guys have done something unexpected in the changes from "index only what I explicitly tell you" to "index all of home unless you tell me otherwise". And lets face it, some of us want out project documentation indexed, and that is not necessarily under any one individuals /home since the project is part of a TEAM effort in a shared directory. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
...and does one really want ~/.mozilla/firefox/profiles/*/cache indexed? just wondering... cheers, MH On 05/01/2014 02:07 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 06:41 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
First about the turned-on-by-default: Search is on by default in Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS and even GNOME. That's a weak argument. It amounts to "everybody else is doing it so why shouldn't we?"
"Yes Jimmy, if all your friend jumped off the cliff you should too".
Go, Lemmmings, Go!
Jos, you seem to have missed the point that people are saying. Its not about who else had it "on by default", Its about the face that previously KDE didn't. Its about consistency of behaviour/operation, which is one of the aspects of good design, a good user interface. You guys have done something unexpected in the changes from "index only what I explicitly tell you" to "index all of home unless you tell me otherwise".
And lets face it, some of us want out project documentation indexed, and that is not necessarily under any one individuals /home since the project is part of a TEAM effort in a shared directory.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 14:19:23 Mathias Homann wrote:
...and does one really want ~/.mozilla/firefox/profiles/*/cache indexed?
just wondering...
It excludes a lot of stuff by default, that probably should be excluded... It isn't?
cheers, MH
On 05/01/2014 02:07 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 06:41 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
First about the turned-on-by-default: Search is on by default in Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS and even GNOME.
That's a weak argument. It amounts to "everybody else is doing it so why shouldn't we?"
"Yes Jimmy, if all your friend jumped off the cliff
you should too".
Go, Lemmmings, Go!
Jos, you seem to have missed the point that people are saying. Its not about who else had it "on by default", Its about the face that previously KDE didn't. Its about consistency of behaviour/operation, which is one of the aspects of good design, a good user interface. You guys have done something unexpected in the changes from "index only what I explicitly tell you" to "index all of home unless you tell me otherwise".
And lets face it, some of us want out project documentation indexed, and that is not necessarily under any one individuals /home since the project is part of a TEAM effort in a shared directory.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 10:28 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 14:19:23 Mathias Homann wrote:
...and does one really want ~/.mozilla/firefox/profiles/*/cache indexed?
just wondering...
It excludes a lot of stuff by default, that probably should be excluded... It isn't?
Normally I'd RTFM, but there isn't a manual page. -- "The top line is the value you give. The bottom line is the value you get. Companies that worry about the top line never have to worry about the bottom line." -- Christopher Anvil, "Top Line" Analog Science Fiction, February 1, 1982 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
In data giovedì 01 maggio 2014 11:06:20, Anton Aylward ha scritto:
Normally I'd RTFM, but there isn't a manual page.
Some basic stuff (still being moved away from Nepomuk) is on KDE's UserBase (http://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk). Technical information is at http://community.kde.org/Baloo. There are also the KDE Community Forums where people can ask questions ("Semantic Desktop" forum). The lack of a docbook is due to the fact that the "Documentation team" (actually a very small number of people who does a great job) did not have enough time to write one for 4.13. Help is welcome in any of these areas. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79
In data giovedì 01 maggio 2014 11:06:20, Anton Aylward ha scritto:
Normally I'd RTFM, but there isn't a manual page.
Some basic stuff (still being moved away from Nepomuk) is on KDE's UserBase (http://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk). On which I spend a few hours updating it entirely. Everything I've said in
On Thursday 01 May 2014 17:26:36 Luca Beltrame wrote: this thread is there, too, by the way. So, yeah, RTFM would have worked, too, but I didn't want to be too rude.
Technical information is at http://community.kde.org/Baloo.
There are also the KDE Community Forums where people can ask questions ("Semantic Desktop" forum).
The lack of a docbook is due to the fact that the "Documentation team" (actually a very small number of people who does a great job) did not have enough time to write one for 4.13.
Help is welcome in any of these areas.
On 05/01/2014 12:55 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
In data giovedì 01 maggio 2014 11:06:20, Anton Aylward ha scritto:
Normally I'd RTFM, but there isn't a manual page.
Some basic stuff (still being moved away from Nepomuk) is on KDE's UserBase (http://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk). On which I spend a few hours updating it entirely. Everything I've said in
On Thursday 01 May 2014 17:26:36 Luca Beltrame wrote: this thread is there, too, by the way. So, yeah, RTFM would have worked, too, but I didn't want to be too rude
You seem to have confused an on-line web page with an off line manual page. RTFM and RTFWP are not the same. It also does not address some issues raised here that we are used to seeing in man pages such as the matter of symlinks and NFS and traversing mounted file systems, 'known bugs' and limitations. Its not that I'm ungrateful for the information being there or for the pointer being here, but the snarky attitude and pretending that this is an adequate replacement for a proper man page does you no credit. I see mention there of System Settings -> Desktop Search When will this be available? I'm 'zypper up' to date but it doesn't appear in my systemsettings display. -- The improvement of our way of life is more important than the spreading of it. If we make it satisfactory enough, it will spread automatically. If we do not, no strength of arms can permanently oppose it. -- Charles A. Lindbergh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 13:32:23 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 12:55 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 17:26:36 Luca Beltrame wrote:
In data giovedì 01 maggio 2014 11:06:20, Anton Aylward ha scritto:
Normally I'd RTFM, but there isn't a manual page.
Some basic stuff (still being moved away from Nepomuk) is on KDE's UserBase (http://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk).
On which I spend a few hours updating it entirely. Everything I've said in this thread is there, too, by the way. So, yeah, RTFM would have worked, too, but I didn't want to be too rude
You seem to have confused an on-line web page with an off line manual page.
RTFM and RTFWP are not the same.
It also does not address some issues raised here that we are used to seeing in man pages such as the matter of symlinks and NFS and traversing mounted file systems, 'known bugs' and limitations.
Its not that I'm ungrateful for the information being there or for the pointer being here, but the snarky attitude and pretending that this is an adequate replacement for a proper man page does you no credit.
I see mention there of System Settings -> Desktop Search When will this be available? I'm 'zypper up' to date but it doesn't appear in my systemsettings display. Then you have a broken installation. Here screenshot of what I have running: http://susepaste.org/3659498
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, Am 01.05.2014 19:48, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
I see mention there of System Settings -> Desktop Search When will this be available? I'm 'zypper up' to date but it doesn't appear in my systemsettings display. Then you have a broken installation. Here screenshot of what I have running: http://susepaste.org/3659498
most probably it is missing, because he has removed the package baloo-file. Without this package there is no file-indexing and therefore no need for "Desktop Search" in System Settings. It is available in my installation and everything is fine for me. @all KDE-Packagers from openSUSE: Thanks for your work. I am happy with the new KDE and the new indexing features. Best regards Thomas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 19:59:12 Thomas Leineweber wrote:
Hi,
Am 01.05.2014 19:48, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
I see mention there of System Settings -> Desktop Search When will this be available? I'm 'zypper up' to date but it doesn't appear in my systemsettings display.> Then you have a broken installation. Here screenshot of what I have running: http://susepaste.org/3659498
most probably it is missing, because he has removed the package baloo-file. Without this package there is no file-indexing and therefore no need for "Desktop Search" in System Settings. It is available in my installation and everything is fine for me.
@all KDE-Packagers from openSUSE: Thanks for your work. I am happy with the new KDE and the new indexing features.
Best regards Thomas
Thank you Thomas! It is appreciated. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Hi everyone, I too want to add my thanks to the `all that' part of the Subject ... thanks to all the volunteers. I very much appreciate what you're doing. I volunteer in my community and I realize it's like any utility: you don't get calls of thanks, you get calls when something is broken. :) With Open Source though, each and every one of us have the ability to contribute. I'm a technical person but I don't have time at the moment to make any meaningful technical contributions. But I did volunteer a while ago to write some KDE UserBase documentation (See KWin Rules - a little joke in the name too! :). I did it on my own time and I thought it was a small way to `give back' Everyone can make a difference. Cheers, -- Pablo Sanchez - Blueoak Database Engineering, Inc Ph: 819.459.1926 Blog: http://pablo-blog.blueoakdb.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 01:59 PM, Thomas Leineweber wrote:
most probably it is missing, because he has removed the package baloo-file. Without this package there is no file-indexing and therefore no need for "Desktop Search" in System Settings. It is available in my installation and everything is fine for me.
Not so As you can see from the 'zypper search' output I posted, it is installed. -- The improvement of our way of life is more important than the spreading of it. If we make it satisfactory enough, it will spread automatically. If we do not, no strength of arms can permanently oppose it. -- Charles A. Lindbergh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am 01.05.2014 20:54, schrieb Anton Aylward:
On 05/01/2014 01:59 PM, Thomas Leineweber wrote:
most probably it is missing, because he has removed the package baloo-file. Without this package there is no file-indexing and therefore no need for "Desktop Search" in System Settings. It is available in my installation and everything is fine for me.
Not so As you can see from the 'zypper search' output I posted, it is installed.
I did not find any mail from you with a zypper search output. Perhaps, I have missed it. Could you point me to the mail or send it again? I did find a mail where you tried to delete baloo-core. But the list of packages to be removed does not include baloo-file, so I assume that baloo-file was deinstalled during that test. If baloo-file is installed and the kcm is not shown in system settings: Please file a bug. Best regards Thomas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 09:19 AM, Mathias Homann wrote:
...and does one really want ~/.mozilla/firefox/profiles/*/cache indexed?
just wondering...
And also under ~ .gvfs .icons .thumbnails .cache .fontconfig *.cache in general *nepomuk* *soprano* *virtuoso* .Trash-* Just a sample from my rsync backup exclude list. Which begs a question. Does Baloo follow symlinks across file systems? Does it behave more like 'find' or more like 'rsync'? Can you turn the ability to follow symlinks, cross file systems, follow symlinks across file systems, set a max size for files to index? 'man baloo' doesn't help. -- "How well we communicate is determined not by how well we say things but by how well we are understood." -- Andrew S. Grove. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 10:52:34 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 09:19 AM, Mathias Homann wrote:
...and does one really want ~/.mozilla/firefox/profiles/*/cache indexed?
just wondering...
And also under ~
.gvfs .icons .thumbnails .cache .fontconfig *.cache in general *nepomuk* *soprano* *virtuoso* .Trash-*
Just a sample from my rsync backup exclude list.
Which begs a question. Does Baloo follow symlinks across file systems? Does it behave more like 'find' or more like 'rsync'? Can you turn the ability to follow symlinks, cross file systems, follow symlinks across file systems, set a max size for files to index?
'man baloo' doesn't help.
I don't know. Read the code, I suppose, a normal end user doesn't need this kind of information. If you find answers, it'd be great if you could add them to http://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk in case others want to know, too. Of course, for advanced users, ~/.kde4/share/config/baloofilerc is terribly easy to find. And lo and behold, it answers quite a few of your questions. Perhaps look in it? Again, documenting what you find would be helpful of course. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 01:04 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 10:52:34 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 09:19 AM, Mathias Homann wrote:
...and does one really want ~/.mozilla/firefox/profiles/*/cache indexed?
just wondering...
And also under ~
.gvfs .icons .thumbnails .cache .fontconfig *.cache in general *nepomuk* *soprano* *virtuoso* .Trash-*
Just a sample from my rsync backup exclude list.
Which begs a question. Does Baloo follow symlinks across file systems? Does it behave more like 'find' or more like 'rsync'? Can you turn the ability to follow symlinks, cross file systems, follow symlinks across file systems, set a max size for files to index?
'man baloo' doesn't help.
I don't know. Read the code,
More developer arrogance. I shouldn't need to. A proper design would have considered this and it would be in the design notes. I can use a whole pile of other applications, other KDE applications for that matter, without needing to read the code because aspects of the design such as these are documented.
I suppose, a normal end user doesn't need this kind of information. If you find answers, it'd be great if you could add them to http://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk in case others want to know, too.
Just so. But the point is that I shouldn't have to.
Of course, for advanced users, ~/.kde4/share/config/baloofilerc is terribly easy to find. And lo and behold, it answers quite a few of your questions. Perhaps look in it?
Perhaps not. I don't need to look in other config RC files to see how applications work. They are properly documented or have a UI that makes such matters clear. That fact that you suggest this as the way to go is just another indication of what has one wrong with this project.
Again, documenting what you find would be helpful of course.
Documenting the design properly would have been more useful. -- The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor. - Vincent T. Lombardi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
[..]
Which begs a question. Does Baloo follow symlinks across file systems? Does it behave more like 'find' or more like 'rsync'? Can you turn the ability to follow symlinks, cross file systems, follow symlinks across file systems, set a max size for files to index?
'man baloo' doesn't help.
I don't know. Read the code, I suppose, a normal end user doesn't need this kind of information. If you find answers, it'd be great if you could add
On Thu, 1 May 2014 19:04:26 Jos Poortvliet wrote: them
to http://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk in case others want to know, too.
With respect, that is an arrogant and ridiculous answer from a developer to an end user! "Read the code!" Not all of us are programmers. Not all of us can understand the code. If an end user didn't need this information the question would not be asked. This information IS needed if one wants to fine-tune the operation and make sure that wanted stuff IS indexed (or unwanted stuff isn't). Or is this based on an (incorrect) assumption that "normal end users" don't have symlinks in their home directories? Regards, Rodney. -- ============================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au ============================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 May 2014 03:24:58 Rodney Baker wrote:
[..]
Which begs a question. Does Baloo follow symlinks across file systems? Does it behave more like 'find' or more like 'rsync'? Can you turn the ability to follow symlinks, cross file systems, follow symlinks across file systems, set a max size for files to index?
'man baloo' doesn't help.
I don't know. Read the code, I suppose, a normal end user doesn't need this kind of information. If you find answers, it'd be great if you could add
On Thu, 1 May 2014 19:04:26 Jos Poortvliet wrote: them
to http://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk in case others want to know, too.
With respect, that is an arrogant and ridiculous answer from a developer to an end user! "Read the code!" Not all of us are programmers. Not all of us can understand the code. If an end user didn't need this information the question would not be asked. This information IS needed if one wants to fine-tune the operation and make sure that wanted stuff IS indexed (or unwanted stuff isn't).
Or is this based on an (incorrect) assumption that "normal end users" don't have symlinks in their home directories?
No, it was based on the assumption that this doesn't matter for a normal end user. It just works. If it doesn't, that is a bug and if the lack of testing means it is still there, we have to fix it. If you want to know what he wants to know, read the code. There's no reason to document this for 'normal' users. THAT is what I meant. And said. Nothing arrogant about it, just being realistic. We can't document EVERYTHING, we have to make choices. That means focusing on the most important thing. And this is relevant for less than 0.1% of our users - most of whom don't even KNOW what a symbolic link is...
Regards, Rodney.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 of May 2014 10:52:34 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 09:19 AM, Mathias Homann wrote:
...and does one really want ~/.mozilla/firefox/profiles/*/cache indexed?
just wondering...
And also under ~
.gvfs .icons .thumbnails .cache .fontconfig *.cache in general *nepomuk* *soprano* *virtuoso* .Trash-*
While this info might not be available unless reading the code (don't know is it or not) - hidden directories are *not* indexed. If they are, it is a bug which should be reported. Cheers, Hrvoje
On Thursday 01 May 2014 09:07:15 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 06:41 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
First about the turned-on-by-default: Search is on by default in Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS and even GNOME.
That's a weak argument. It amounts to "everybody else is doing it so why shouldn't we?"
"Yes Jimmy, if all your friend jumped off the cliff you should too".
Go, Lemmmings, Go!
Jos, you seem to have missed the point that people are saying. Its not about who else had it "on by default", Its about the face that previously KDE didn't. Its about consistency of behaviour/operation, which is one of the aspects of good design, a good user interface.
Oh, come on, that's like saying DOS 1.0 is the base, never use anything else. The world is moving on, 80+ percent of users uses search. It is an expected feature on a modern system. Most of these users wouldn't know how to enable it and we can't exactly advertise every new feature we introduced since, what, KDE 0.1? So we enable it. You're smart enough to disable it, if you need to. If it creates problems, we can fix that, of course. It shouldn't.
You guys have done something unexpected in the changes from "index only what I explicitly tell you" to "index all of home unless you tell me otherwise".
And lets face it, some of us want out project documentation indexed, and that is not necessarily under any one individuals /home since the project is part of a TEAM effort in a shared directory.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 16:27:13 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 09:07:15 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 06:41 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
First about the turned-on-by-default: Search is on by default in Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS and even GNOME.
That's a weak argument. It amounts to "everybody else is doing it so why shouldn't we?"
"Yes Jimmy, if all your friend jumped off the cliff
you should too".
Go, Lemmmings, Go!
Jos, you seem to have missed the point that people are saying. Its not about who else had it "on by default", Its about the face that previously KDE didn't. Its about consistency of behaviour/operation, which is one of the aspects of good design, a good user interface.
Oh, come on, that's like saying DOS 1.0 is the base, never use anything else.
The world is moving on, 80+ percent of users uses search. It is an expected feature on a modern system. Most of these users wouldn't know how to enable it and we can't exactly advertise every new feature we introduced since, what, KDE 0.1? So we enable it. You're smart enough to disable it, if you need to.
If it creates problems, we can fix that, of course. It shouldn't.
You guys have done something unexpected in the changes from "index only what I explicitly tell you" to "index all of home unless you tell me otherwise".
And lets face it, some of us want out project documentation indexed, and that is not necessarily under any one individuals /home since the project is part of a TEAM effort in a shared directory.
This is a feature we lost - being able to index stuff outside of the home folder of the user. Should come back in the next release. If you now want to say "so it isn't ready, you should not have released it", you didn't read my initial email. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 10:29 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
And lets face it, some of us want out project documentation indexed, and that is not necessarily under any one individuals /home since the project is part of a TEAM effort in a shared directory. This is a feature we lost - being able to index stuff outside of the home folder of the user. Should come back in the next release.
If you now want to say "so it isn't ready, you should not have released it", you didn't read my initial email.
No. I'm saying that here's no mention of it in the man page and nothing to make it visible in systemsettings. -- Plurality is never to be posited without need. --Occam -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 11:07:52 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 10:29 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
And lets face it, some of us want out project documentation indexed, and that is not necessarily under any one individuals /home since the project is part of a TEAM effort in a shared directory.
This is a feature we lost - being able to index stuff outside of the home folder of the user. Should come back in the next release.
If you now want to say "so it isn't ready, you should not have released it", you didn't read my initial email.
No. I'm saying that here's no mention of it in the man page and nothing to make it visible in systemsettings. Yes, as I said - that part isn't done yet. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 12:55 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 11:07:52 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 10:29 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> And lets face it, some of us want out project documentation > indexed, and > that is not necessarily under any one individuals /home since the > project is part of a TEAM effort in a shared directory.
This is a feature we lost - being able to index stuff outside of the home folder of the user. Should come back in the next release.
If you now want to say "so it isn't ready, you should not have released it", you didn't read my initial email.
No. I'm saying that here's no mention of it in the man page and nothing to make it visible in systemsettings. Yes, as I said - that part isn't done yet.
Then why have it there in the web page you refered us to as a substitute man page. I'm getting a feeling that there is a rather arbitrary attitude towards end users here. -- Wherever you see a successful business, someone once made a courageous decision. --Peter F. Drucker -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 13:34:20 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 12:55 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 11:07:52 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 10:29 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
>> And lets face it, some of us want out project documentation >> indexed, and >> that is not necessarily under any one individuals /home since the >> project is part of a TEAM effort in a shared directory.
This is a feature we lost - being able to index stuff outside of the home folder of the user. Should come back in the next release.
If you now want to say "so it isn't ready, you should not have released it", you didn't read my initial email.
No. I'm saying that here's no mention of it in the man page and nothing to make it visible in systemsettings.
Yes, as I said - that part isn't done yet.
Then why have it there in the web page you refered us to as a substitute man page.
That page doesn't refer to indexing things outside the home folder, which is what I was replying to. And it seems that functionality is actually there, just disabled by default. Remove the folders and I would expect it to start to work.
I'm getting a feeling that there is a rather arbitrary attitude towards end users here. I mostly get the feeling you're not really reading my emails so I'll stop replying ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 01:53 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 13:34:20 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 12:55 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 11:07:52 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 10:29 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
>>> And lets face it, some of us want out project documentation >>> indexed, and >>> that is not necessarily under any one individuals /home since the >>> project is part of a TEAM effort in a shared directory.
This is a feature we lost - being able to index stuff outside of the home folder of the user. Should come back in the next release.
If you now want to say "so it isn't ready, you should not have released it", you didn't read my initial email.
No. I'm saying that here's no mention of it in the man page and nothing to make it visible in systemsettings.
Yes, as I said - that part isn't done yet.
Then why have it there in the web page you refered us to as a substitute man page.
That page doesn't refer to indexing things outside the home folder, which is what I was replying to.
And it seems that functionality is actually there, just disabled by default. Remove the folders and I would expect it to start to work.
I'm getting a feeling that there is a rather arbitrary attitude towards end users here. I mostly get the feeling you're not really reading my emails so I'll stop replying ;-)
I don't see baloo using too much memory. And, I am confident that we will be seeing a number of features being added ;-) Cheers! Roman -------------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Get it! Discover it! Share it! -------------------------------------------- http://linuxcounter.net/ #179293 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 10:27 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 09:07:15 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 06:41 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
First about the turned-on-by-default: Search is on by default in Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS and even GNOME.
That's a weak argument. It amounts to "everybody else is doing it so why shouldn't we?"
"Yes Jimmy, if all your friend jumped off the cliff you should too".
Go, Lemmmings, Go!
Jos, you seem to have missed the point that people are saying. Its not about who else had it "on by default", Its about the face that previously KDE didn't. Its about consistency of behaviour/operation, which is one of the aspects of good design, a good user interface.
Oh, come on, that's like saying DOS 1.0 is the base, never use anything else.
No its not.
The world is moving on, 80+ percent of users uses search. It is an expected feature on a modern system.
First, there's a logical error in your argument. You are asserting this 80% without showing evidence. You are failing to differentiate between it being a desired/demanded feature and something that gets used 'becuase its there'. Some cars have fifth and even sixth gears in a manual change. That doens't mean drivers demand this. My father drives a '5 speed' but only uses four of the gears. Your logic is flawed. It only need one counter case .. And I'll volunteer for that!
Most of these users wouldn't know how to enable it and we can't exactly advertise every new feature we introduced since, what, KDE 0.1? So we enable it. You're smart enough to disable it, if you need to.
Again, you are being ridiculous. There is plenty about KDE I don't know how to enable/disable by editing the entries under .kde4, but so what? I use systemsettings. That ensures a clean and consistent alternation, which going in 'under the hood' with a text edit won't. And browsing though systemsettings makes one aware of all these features, so in effect you are 'advertising' them. But the issue is that you've released an incomplete 'product'. There's no support for this in systemsettings as there was for akondai etc. There's no manual page. -- Lead and inspire people. Don't try to manage and manipulate people. Inventories can be managed but people must be led. ~ Ross Perot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 11:04:41 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 10:27 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 09:07:15 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 06:41 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
First about the turned-on-by-default: Search is on by default in Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS and even GNOME.
That's a weak argument. It amounts to "everybody else is doing it so why shouldn't we?"
"Yes Jimmy, if all your friend jumped off the cliff
you should too".
Go, Lemmmings, Go!
Jos, you seem to have missed the point that people are saying. Its not about who else had it "on by default", Its about the face that previously KDE didn't. Its about consistency of behaviour/operation, which is one of the aspects of good design, a good user interface.
Oh, come on, that's like saying DOS 1.0 is the base, never use anything else. No its not.
The world is moving on, 80+ percent of users uses search. It is an expected feature on a modern system.
First, there's a logical error in your argument. You are asserting this 80% without showing evidence. You are failing to differentiate between it being a desired/demanded feature and something that gets used 'becuase its there'. Some cars have fifth and even sixth gears in a manual change. That doens't mean drivers demand this. My father drives a '5 speed' but only uses four of the gears. Your logic is flawed. It only need one counter case .. And I'll volunteer for that!
No flawed argument here. I cite evidence by pointing out every competing desktop offers this functionality. You can of course claim that their users don't use it but - well, good luck arguing that.
Most of these users wouldn't know how to enable it and we can't exactly advertise every new feature we introduced since, what, KDE 0.1? So we enable it. You're smart enough to disable it, if you need to.
Again, you are being ridiculous. There is plenty about KDE I don't know how to enable/disable by editing the entries under .kde4, but so what? I use systemsettings. That ensures a clean and consistent alternation, which going in 'under the hood' with a text edit won't.
No, you CAN disable it from the GUI. In systemsettings. Let me quote the documentation on userbase.kde.org: Q: How can I disable the semantic desktop? A: File indexing can be disabled by adding the users' home folder to the System Settings -> Desktop Search -> Do not search in these locations list.
And browsing though systemsettings makes one aware of all these features, so in effect you are 'advertising' them.
But the issue is that you've released an incomplete 'product'. There's no support for this in systemsettings as there was for akondai etc. There's no manual page.
So, yes there is. And again, I pointed out WHY it was released. It might have lost a few minor features, but is vastly better and solves real world issues that many users have. Cost benefit ratio: you're just on the wrong end of the stick. You're in the minority. Sorry. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 12:59 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
No, you CAN disable it from the GUI. In systemsettings. Let me quote the documentation on userbase.kde.org: Q: How can I disable the semantic desktop? A: File indexing can be disabled by adding the users' home folder to the System Settings -> Desktop Search -> Do not search in these locations list.
Round and round in circles. No you can't because, as you say, that's not available yet. So you can't say it can be done because it can't be done. You seem to have a very flippant and arbitrary attitude towards users, documenting things that aren't available and they responding to people who say they aren't available by telling them the documentation says that's how it works. -- "How well we communicate is determined not by how well we say things but by how well we are understood." -- Andrew S. Grove. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/01/2014 12:59 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
But the issue is that you've released an incomplete 'product'. There's no support for this in systemsettings as there was for akondai etc. There's no manual page. So, yes there is. And again, I pointed out WHY it was released. It might have lost a few minor features, but is vastly better and solves real world issues that many users have. Cost benefit ratio: you're just on the wrong end of the stick. You're in the minority. Sorry.
*sigh* a web page is not a manual page and the web page still fails to address many of the issues raised here. You also seem to think that I'm anti-baloo and hence attributing many things to me that are simply not so, making sweeping assertions and generalizations about user desires and preferences that are demonstrably not so and that many others here beside myself have expressed. What I'm anti is the way this incomplete 'product' has been foisted on us and the changes along the lines of "The Developers Know What's Best For You" attitude. One that you continue to display. -- "There's no such thing as good - there's trained and there's untrained." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 13:43:56 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 12:59 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
But the issue is that you've released an incomplete 'product'. There's no support for this in systemsettings as there was for akondai etc. There's no manual page.
So, yes there is. And again, I pointed out WHY it was released. It might have lost a few minor features, but is vastly better and solves real world issues that many users have. Cost benefit ratio: you're just on the wrong end of the stick. You're in the minority. Sorry.
*sigh* a web page is not a manual page and the web page still fails to address many of the issues raised here.
You also seem to think that I'm anti-baloo and hence attributing many things to me that are simply not so, making sweeping assertions and generalizations about user desires and preferences that are demonstrably not so and that many others here beside myself have expressed.
What I'm anti is the way this incomplete 'product' has been foisted on us and the changes along the lines of "The Developers Know What's Best For You" attitude. One that you continue to display.
Dude. Again. There IS a configuration setting, repeating there isn't just makes you wrong. If your installation is broken, well, sorry, but that doesn't mean you're any less wrong. And I have explained why this 'incomplete product' has been 'foisted' on users. The fact that you're part of that tiny minority that has a problem with that makes you road kill. Collateral damage. Unavoidable, choices have to be made. It is good for the majority of users. You saying it isn't again just makes you just wrong. I'm sorry that it bothers you, but you keeping arguing doesn't change it. It just wastes everybody's time as we have to keep explaining that we made the right choice (you still don't seem to have read my mail) and you're just - well, wrong. Welcome to reality, which, as it happens, has no fairy figures which make everything perfect. In reality, some things go wrong but you still have to do it because it solves the problem for most other users. Meanwhile, actual issues that can be fixed don't get reported as by now everybody on this list must feel that the bunch of angry people here will beat their heads in. No thanks for that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
I'm sorry that it bothers you, but you keeping arguing doesn't change it. It just wastes everybody's time as we have to keep explaining that we made >the right choice (you still don't seem to have read my mail) and you're just - well, wrong.
You mean you think you made the right choice, and that the choice you
made was the one you believed in. Saying "we made the right choice and
you are wrong" is childish, and showing an unwillingness to have KDE
be a community project.
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Jos Poortvliet
On Thursday 01 May 2014 13:43:56 Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/01/2014 12:59 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
But the issue is that you've released an incomplete 'product'. There's no support for this in systemsettings as there was for akondai etc. There's no manual page.
So, yes there is. And again, I pointed out WHY it was released. It might have lost a few minor features, but is vastly better and solves real world issues that many users have. Cost benefit ratio: you're just on the wrong end of the stick. You're in the minority. Sorry.
*sigh* a web page is not a manual page and the web page still fails to address many of the issues raised here.
You also seem to think that I'm anti-baloo and hence attributing many things to me that are simply not so, making sweeping assertions and generalizations about user desires and preferences that are demonstrably not so and that many others here beside myself have expressed.
What I'm anti is the way this incomplete 'product' has been foisted on us and the changes along the lines of "The Developers Know What's Best For You" attitude. One that you continue to display.
Dude. Again. There IS a configuration setting, repeating there isn't just makes you wrong. If your installation is broken, well, sorry, but that doesn't mean you're any less wrong.
And I have explained why this 'incomplete product' has been 'foisted' on users. The fact that you're part of that tiny minority that has a problem with that makes you road kill. Collateral damage. Unavoidable, choices have to be made. It is good for the majority of users. You saying it isn't again just makes you just wrong.
I'm sorry that it bothers you, but you keeping arguing doesn't change it. It just wastes everybody's time as we have to keep explaining that we made the right choice (you still don't seem to have read my mail) and you're just - well, wrong.
Welcome to reality, which, as it happens, has no fairy figures which make everything perfect. In reality, some things go wrong but you still have to do it because it solves the problem for most other users.
Meanwhile, actual issues that can be fixed don't get reported as by now everybody on this list must feel that the bunch of angry people here will beat their heads in. No thanks for that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 11:44:24 Sam M wrote:
I'm sorry that it bothers you, but you keeping arguing doesn't change it. It just wastes everybody's time as we have to keep explaining that we made >the right choice (you still don't seem to have read my mail) and you're just - well, wrong.
You mean you think you made the right choice, and that the choice you made was the one you believed in. Saying "we made the right choice and you are wrong" is childish, and showing an unwillingness to have KDE be a community project. Oh, patches are welcome. COMMUNITY MEMBERS are people who contribute. Not complain at mailing lists, mind you, people who DO things. Others are welcome to add input occasionally, but shouldn't waste everybody's time.
Image the number of bugs that could be fixed in the time we tried this weird thing called 'logic' on you and, well, only Anton still continues to troll, but this thread is now on my ignore list ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Oh, patches are welcome. COMMUNITY MEMBERS are people who >contribute. Not complain at mailing lists, mind you, people who DO things. Others are >welcome to add input occasionally, but shouldn't waste everybody's time.
Didn't you just admit that you weren't a programmer? Is a mailing list
not a place for a non-programmer to voice concerns, ask questions, and
attempt to participate with a non-participatory set of developers?
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Jos Poortvliet
On Thursday 01 May 2014 11:44:24 Sam M wrote:
I'm sorry that it bothers you, but you keeping arguing doesn't change it. It just wastes everybody's time as we have to keep explaining that we made >the right choice (you still don't seem to have read my mail) and you're just - well, wrong.
You mean you think you made the right choice, and that the choice you made was the one you believed in. Saying "we made the right choice and you are wrong" is childish, and showing an unwillingness to have KDE be a community project. Oh, patches are welcome. COMMUNITY MEMBERS are people who contribute. Not complain at mailing lists, mind you, people who DO things. Others are welcome to add input occasionally, but shouldn't waste everybody's time.
Image the number of bugs that could be fixed in the time we tried this weird thing called 'logic' on you and, well, only Anton still continues to troll, but this thread is now on my ignore list ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 May 2014 11:56:48 Sam M wrote:
Oh, patches are welcome. COMMUNITY MEMBERS are people who >contribute. Not complain at mailing lists, mind you, people who DO things. Others are
welcome to add input occasionally, but shouldn't waste everybody's time.
Didn't you just admit that you weren't a programmer? Is a mailing list not a place for a non-programmer to voice concerns, ask questions, and attempt to participate with a non-participatory set of developers?
You don't have to program to contribute. I never said that... If you would have read the many emails here, you'd have noticed that I pointed several times to articles on dot.kde.org and documentation that I wrote. Moreover, this list is for getting stuff done, not have two guys block the list by cluelessly complaining for hours and hours. And I know, I'm feeding two trolls. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday, May 01, 2014 21:22:44 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thursday 01 May 2014 11:56:48 Sam M wrote:
Oh, patches are welcome. COMMUNITY MEMBERS are people who >contribute. Not complain at mailing lists, mind you, people who DO things. Others are
welcome to add input occasionally, but shouldn't waste everybody's time.
Didn't you just admit that you weren't a programmer? Is a mailing list not a place for a non-programmer to voice concerns, ask questions, and attempt to participate with a non-participatory set of developers?
You don't have to program to contribute. I never said that... If you would have read the many emails here, you'd have noticed that I pointed several times to articles on dot.kde.org and documentation that I wrote.
Moreover, this list is for getting stuff done, not have two guys block the list by cluelessly complaining for hours and hours.
And I know, I'm feeding two trolls.
From the (two handful of) KDE users I know personally, nealy all had nepomuk file indexing disabled because of its performance issues and their thinking
No, you don't. First, I learned some things from this "discussions". Second, I bet there are people not complaining because Anton does and it would be pointless just to write the same stuff. I was until now. I do not like his harshness and I do not agree to the baloo-should-be-totaly-removeable-from-my-harddisk part, but he is right with regars do configuration and documentation. Any major change in behaviour or style of software widly used started a boatload of questions like how-do-I-get-the-old-back or I-do-not-need-this- stuff-where-do-I-disable-this (nepomuk/akonadi, now firefox with australis, M$ changing start buttons or menu structure, ...) So, threads like this were to be expected. Not documenting what baloo exactly does may be excusable by lack of time/participants. Not adding a simple checkbox to System Settings for disabling the whole indexing is not. Neither is the opt-out vs opt-in policy. they did not need it. All of them are software developers of some sort, none of them (including me) is familiar enough with C(++) to contribute to KDE beyond reporting bugs. So, they (and me) are somewhat "normal" users of KDE, yet experiencend computer users, and also longtime KDE users. None of them read this mailing list, none of them dig into release notes. Yet they want to keep up with latest development and install KDE from KDE:Current. You could say this is careless, stupid even, but I think it is widely done. Somewhere here or in one of the other threads you were arguing geeks/nerds versus the proverbial 80% of users. I think you are wrong there. 80% of users do not use Linux on their desktop computer. I do not know how many of the people using Linux desktops are actually using KDE. But I am pretty sure (admittedly completely guessing) the average KDE user is interested in having some control over the system. Including such things as wether and what is indexed. Plus, if KDE isn't build for the geeks, than what is? On your repeated argument of contribution: I have a pretty long list of features of KDE that where once there and went missing. Most of them with the switch to KDE 4, some other with the switch to KMail 2. Some of those I consider bugs, some I think got lost due to some argument like your "you are a minority, so tough luck" way of thinking. Beeing a software developer myself I know you sometimes have to drop configuration options to gain maintainability. But I _really_ do miss the times when there was a keyboard shortcut theme called Unix or Emacs (I do not recall the exact name) which saved me from the "stupid" Ctrl-a as "mark all" and simply took me to the start of the line in any textual environment. Sadly, I am so far away from C++ and GUI programming that even thinking about re-adding such a feature myself is completely ridiculous. So, I am not talking of really severe issues, but enough to annoy me twice to ten times a day. So do said people I know. We complain over these things during lunch break, we search the internet (for days) for solutions. But filing a bug seldomly happens. It just takes too much effort. Yes, I know, this is lame/stupid. My point beeing: I think, we are much closer to "normal" KDE users than Tom, Dick or Harry out there using Windows, MacOS, or Gnome and take whatever some God thinks is good for them. Another troll, I guess? Regards mararm -- I don't know who my grandfather was; I am much more concerned to know what his grandson will be. -- Abraham Lincoln -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Am Freitag 02 Mai 2014 schrieb mararm: snip
So, I am not talking of really severe issues, but enough to annoy me twice to ten times a day. So do said people I know. We complain over these things during lunch break, we search the internet (for days) for solutions. But filing a bug seldomly happens. It just takes too much effort. Yes, I know, this is lame/stupid. My point beeing: I think, we are much closer to "normal" KDE users than Tom, Dick or Harry out there using Windows, MacOS, or Gnome and take whatever some God thinks is good for them.
Another troll, I guess? No, you put it in a nutshell.
-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Matthias Müller (Benutzer #439779 im Linux-Counter http://counter.li.org) PS: Bitte senden Sie als Antwort auf meine E-Mails reine Text-Nachrichten!
participants (13)
-
Anton Aylward -
C -
Jos Poortvliet -
Luca Beltrame -
mararm -
Mathias Homann -
Matthias Müller -
Pablo Sanchez -
Rodney Baker -
Roman Bysh -
Sam M -
Thomas Leineweber -
šumski