[opensuse-kde] 12.2 planning
Apologies for being so quiet over Xmas - I was gathering the energies for a busy 2012 to make openSUSE bigger than ever. It's high time we nailed down what we will do for KDE in 12.2. We can separate these into things we want to do, and things we have to do. None of these lists are complete IMO, please help to fill them out. ==Have To== These are external factors that we have little influence over, that we have to react to * openSUSE 12.2 Release Schedule 12.2 is scheduled for release on 11 July 2012 [1]. Beta 1 is our traditional freeze for major version bumps, usually about 6 weeks before release, so we have until June to change things. There is no detailed 12.2 roadmap from Coolo yet [2]. * Upstream KDE Release Schedule There is no 4.9 schedule yet (what is it with release managers and christmas?) but since KDE follows a 6-monthly cycle, add a year to the 4.7 schedule and we would have 4.9.0 on July 27 2012. So this is out for us. This means we'll probably have 4.8.4 in 12.2. ** Package version updates ** Default configuration adaptations required by 4.8 * Factors affecting KDE in the rest of the distro Traditionally we end up reacting to these late and 'best-effort', usually because these are changes to the platform authored by redhat, adopted by openSUSE and GNOME gets them for 'free' from upstream RH, or because some other part of SUSE decides it doesn't want to take care of a feature for us any more. I'd like us to be aware of these as early as possible this time, work out the implications and the work required to turn these changes into opportunities for us rather than damage limitation exercises. ** Plymouth as bootsplash ** Systemd changes in 12.2 I don't know what these are, but I suspect they may have some influence on KDM ** Kernel/Driver changes The forces of evolution here may require updates in the KWin driver blacklists we ship ** Updated branding We need to integrate any branding changes that come out of the artwork team and make sure they meet our needs. ==Want To=== These are things we would like to do as a value addition to the purely mechanistic changes pushed on us by upstream. I have a few things in mind, to kick the discussion off I'll mention a couple here: * Quality focus 4.8, and 4.8.4 should be highly stable from upstream (changes to the platform are happening in the KDE Frameworks 5 work, so it and any 4.9 are going to be very incremental). As a distribution we can build on this with polish and targeted bugfixing based on our users' feedback. Of course things like Apper + stack, Akonadi + stack, Nepomuk + stack are big items here, but also many things that are simpler to contribute to, such as missing icons, improving translations, clarifying bad strings in the UI, cleaning up the start menu tree, setting default package selections can be done. * Improving Activity usability There is still a way to go to make Activities a "Duh! Why didn't we always do things like that". Based on a bit of common sense and a bit of feedback, I think we should be able to make Activities a lot better with a manageable amount of work, and submit this upstream for 4.9. * Integrate Plasma Active in openSUSE A lot of PA stuff has only been usable using git branches, but these should be mostly integrated to make a current version of PA in openSUSE doable by know. Since open-slx is our downstream, most of the work is already done. As a final note, please keep the discussion constructive - if your only contribution to 12.2 will be a badly spelled thread hijacking to complain about everything we did wrong, you will have just taken 5 minutes out of everyone else who can make useful changes' openSUSE time, so take it to /dev/null and yourself to the opensuse-kde3 perfect code museum list. [1] http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap [2] http://www.suse.de/~coolo/opensuse_12.2 (eventually) [3] http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.7_Release_Schedule [4] http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.8_Release_Schedule Looking forward to a fun openSUSE KDE 2012... Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Will Stephenson <wstephenson@suse.de> wrote:
Apologies for being so quiet over Xmas - I was gathering the energies for a busy 2012 to make openSUSE bigger than ever.
It's high time we nailed down what we will do for KDE in 12.2.
We can separate these into things we want to do, and things we have to do. None of these lists are complete IMO, please help to fill them out.
==Have To== These are external factors that we have little influence over, that we have to react to * openSUSE 12.2 Release Schedule 12.2 is scheduled for release on 11 July 2012 [1]. Beta 1 is our traditional freeze for major version bumps, usually about 6 weeks before release, so we have until June to change things. There is no detailed 12.2 roadmap from Coolo yet [2].
* Upstream KDE Release Schedule There is no 4.9 schedule yet (what is it with release managers and christmas?) but since KDE follows a 6-monthly cycle, add a year to the 4.7 schedule and we would have 4.9.0 on July 27 2012. So this is out for us. This means we'll probably have 4.8.4 in 12.2. ** Package version updates ** Default configuration adaptations required by 4.8
* Factors affecting KDE in the rest of the distro Traditionally we end up reacting to these late and 'best-effort', usually because these are changes to the platform authored by redhat, adopted by openSUSE and GNOME gets them for 'free' from upstream RH, or because some other part of SUSE decides it doesn't want to take care of a feature for us any more. I'd like us to be aware of these as early as possible this time, work out the implications and the work required to turn these changes into opportunities for us rather than damage limitation exercises. ** Plymouth as bootsplash ** Systemd changes in 12.2 I don't know what these are, but I suspect they may have some influence on KDM ** Kernel/Driver changes The forces of evolution here may require updates in the KWin driver blacklists we ship ** Updated branding We need to integrate any branding changes that come out of the artwork team and make sure they meet our needs.
==Want To=== These are things we would like to do as a value addition to the purely mechanistic changes pushed on us by upstream.
I have a few things in mind, to kick the discussion off I'll mention a couple here: * Quality focus 4.8, and 4.8.4 should be highly stable from upstream (changes to the platform are happening in the KDE Frameworks 5 work, so it and any 4.9 are going to be very incremental). As a distribution we can build on this with polish and targeted bugfixing based on our users' feedback. Of course things like Apper + stack, Akonadi + stack, Nepomuk + stack are big items here, but also many things that are simpler to contribute to, such as missing icons, improving translations, clarifying bad strings in the UI, cleaning up the start menu tree, setting default package selections can be done. * Improving Activity usability There is still a way to go to make Activities a "Duh! Why didn't we always do things like that". Based on a bit of common sense and a bit of feedback, I think we should be able to make Activities a lot better with a manageable amount of work, and submit this upstream for 4.9. * Integrate Plasma Active in openSUSE A lot of PA stuff has only been usable using git branches, but these should be mostly integrated to make a current version of PA in openSUSE doable by know. Since open-slx is our downstream, most of the work is already done.
As a final note, please keep the discussion constructive - if your only contribution to 12.2 will be a badly spelled thread hijacking to complain about everything we did wrong, you will have just taken 5 minutes out of everyone else who can make useful changes' openSUSE time, so take it to /dev/null and yourself to the opensuse-kde3 perfect code museum list.
[1] http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap [2] http://www.suse.de/~coolo/opensuse_12.2 (eventually) [3] http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.7_Release_Schedule [4] http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.8_Release_Schedule
Looking forward to a fun openSUSE KDE 2012...
Will
I agree with everything you said. A few related things: 1. A bunch of Qt mobility-related packages are scattered around random repositories (like Applications:Geo). If we want to have plasma active integrated, it would probably be good to move all of these packages into KDE:Qt. 2. Also related to Plasma Active, trying to work with the PA team to use patches against upstream KDE in their .spec files rather than git pulls would make it easier to integrate. 3. Figure out if telepathy is ready to be installed by default. This probably would depend on 4: 4. Integrating ksecretservice. Is there any way to patch the cmake files to build this as part of kdelibs so we don't have the cyclic build dependency problem? Maybe ask upstream about this. 5. For activities, there was talk about using a variant of the Plasma Active activity manager, tuned slightly for desktop use. I forget who was planning on working on this, it might be worth contacting the plasma active team to see if they want help with this. Tuning PA widgets and containments for desktop use might be generally useful, but probably not essential (and may be too much work). 6. QMLified plasmoids. There are a bunch of these that are available, but will not be integrated until KDE SC 4.9. These should be essentially done by openSUSE 12.2. It might be worth seeing if we can ship these as an additional package, like plasmoids-extra-qml or something. There may need to be some patches to avoid plasmoid name collisions. 7. Menu-in-titlebar. I don't know the state of this. There are supposed to be patches for both Qt and Gnome to support this, but I don't know if they have been officially accepted upstream. If not we should make sure they are included, and offer the corresponding KDE window decoration as a package (although not the default IMHO). 8. There is some talk that lightDM might actually go somewhere. We should probably keep an eye on it and see whether it is worth packaging closer to the 12.2 release. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 11 Jan 2012 13:52:00 todd rme wrote:
I agree with everything you said. A few related things:
1. A bunch of Qt mobility-related packages are scattered around random repositories (like Applications:Geo). If we want to have plasma active integrated, it would probably be good to move all of these packages into KDE:Qt.
I'm not aware of these, what are they? Probably unrelated but I would like to get KFitness stabilised for my own usage (currently in KUP).
2. Also related to Plasma Active, trying to work with the PA team to use patches against upstream KDE in their .spec files rather than git pulls would make it easier to integrate.
Perhaps this is possible now that most PA changes have been merged, the delta to our packages should be smaller.
3. Figure out if telepathy is ready to be installed by default. This probably would depend on 4:
+1, good point!
4. Integrating ksecretservice. Is there any way to patch the cmake files to build this as part of kdelibs so we don't have the cyclic build dependency problem? Maybe ask upstream about this.
Details?
5. For activities, there was talk about using a variant of the Plasma Active activity manager, tuned slightly for desktop use. I forget who was planning on working on this, it might be worth contacting the plasma active team to see if they want help with this. Tuning PA widgets and containments for desktop use might be generally useful, but probably not essential (and may be too much work).
I was thinking of something along these lines, so that it is obvious which activity is becoming active.
6. QMLified plasmoids. There are a bunch of these that are available, but will not be integrated until KDE SC 4.9. These should be essentially done by openSUSE 12.2. It might be worth seeing if we can ship these as an additional package, like plasmoids-extra-qml or something. There may need to be some patches to avoid plasmoid name collisions.
+1
7. Menu-in-titlebar. I don't know the state of this. There are supposed to be patches for both Qt and Gnome to support this, but I don't know if they have been officially accepted upstream. If not we should make sure they are included, and offer the corresponding KDE window decoration as a package (although not the default IMHO).
The Qt stuff was merged to Qt 4.8 upstream.
8. There is some talk that lightDM might actually go somewhere. We should probably keep an eye on it and see whether it is worth packaging closer to the 12.2 release.
Yes, we should check with Alex Fiestas who is driving this at Kubuntu. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Will Stephenson <wstephenson@suse.de> wrote:
On Wednesday 11 Jan 2012 13:52:00 todd rme wrote:
I agree with everything you said. A few related things:
1. A bunch of Qt mobility-related packages are scattered around random repositories (like Applications:Geo). If we want to have plasma active integrated, it would probably be good to move all of these packages into KDE:Qt.
I'm not aware of these, what are they?
From the current OSB PA repo (which I don't think is used anymore), the packages that are currently linked to Applications:Geo are:
contextkit * messagingframework * qt-mobility * tinycdb * ones that I know are Qt-related. But someone who knows more should probably look over the Applications:Geo and Meego:Netbook projects to see which packages should be merged into other repositories. Neither are considered "factory" repositories so you cannot submit packages to openSUSE:Factory from them.
4. Integrating ksecretservice. Is there any way to patch the cmake files to build this as part of kdelibs so we don't have the cyclic build dependency problem? Maybe ask upstream about this.
Details?
ksecretservice is a new password database API that is being shared between KDE and Gnome. Telepathy uses it, so if you don't have ksecretservice installed it will use Gnome keyring instead of kwallet to store its passwords. However, it won't build without kdelibs present, but kdelibs won't support it unless it is already then when kdelibs builds, meaning you have a cyclic dependency. The only obvious way to break the cycle is to build ksecretservice with kdelibs, after the parts it needs are built but before the parts that need it are built. See here: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2011-12/msg00162.html
7. Menu-in-titlebar. I don't know the state of this. There are supposed to be patches for both Qt and Gnome to support this, but I don't know if they have been officially accepted upstream. If not we should make sure they are included, and offer the corresponding KDE window decoration as a package (although not the default IMHO).
The Qt stuff was merged to Qt 4.8 upstream.
That is what I thought, but I wasn't sure. What about the Gnome stuff? Has anyone tried packaging the decoration that supports this? -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 14:42, Will Stephenson <wstephenson@...> wrote:
On Wednesday 11 Jan 2012 13:52:00 todd rme wrote: <snip>
3. Figure out if telepathy is ready to be installed by default. This probably would depend on 4:
+1, good point!
4. Integrating ksecretservice. Is there any way to patch the cmake files to build this as part of kdelibs so we don't have the cyclic build dependency problem? Maybe ask upstream about this.
Details?
ATM you have to : 1. build kdelibs without ksecretservice, then 2. build ksecretservice based on this fresh build of kdelibs, then 3. build kdelibs again, this time WITH ksecretservice Shitty, ain't it? Perfect waste of resources. Either ksecretservice gets fixed, or we all waste sirious time and other resources we need also for other projects. - Yamaban. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch 11 Januar 2012, 13:52:00 schrieb todd rme:
7. Menu-in-titlebar. I don't know the state of this. There are supposed to be patches for both Qt and Gnome to support this, but I don't know if they have been officially accepted upstream. If not we should make sure they are included, and offer the corresponding KDE window decoration as a package (although not the default IMHO).
Qt 4.8 has Aurelien's patch to make the menu implementation plugin-based. The things still needed are appmenu-qt, a special window decoration is still required, as is a special Plasma applet if one whats to use a global menu bar. As for GNOME/GTK support: As far as I'm aware, everything needed is already in the GNOME/Ayatana repo. I tried to use Unity from that repo but Compiz crashes on my setup, so no idea if the GTK part actually works. Markus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
2012/1/11 Will Stephenson <wstephenson@suse.de>:
* Upstream KDE Release Schedule There is no 4.9 schedule yet (what is it with release managers and christmas?) but since KDE follows a 6-monthly cycle, add a year to the 4.7 schedule and we would have 4.9.0 on July 27 2012. So this is out for us. This means we'll probably have 4.8.4 in 12.2. Which is perfect. Having latest minor .z stable KDE release for stable openSUSE release should be our new policy, IMHO. Of course, no big version bumps, but supplying latest minor version is good.
* Factors affecting KDE in the rest of the distro Traditionally we end up reacting to these late and 'best-effort', usually because these are changes to the platform authored by redhat, adopted by openSUSE and GNOME gets them for 'free' from upstream RH, or because some other part of SUSE decides it doesn't want to take care of a feature for us any more. I'd like us to be aware of these as early as possible this time, work out the implications and the work required to turn these changes into opportunities for us rather than damage limitation exercises. ** Plymouth as bootsplash ** Systemd changes in 12.2 I don't know what these are, but I suspect they may have some influence on KDM Most of the work here will happen on their mutual integration, so influence on KDM is of low possibility (Fedora and Mint guys are using this stuff (I mean, plymouth) for some time now, AFAIK). However, there are existing KDM hiccups we need to clean up, see below.
==Want To=== These are things we would like to do as a value addition to the purely mechanistic changes pushed on us by upstream.
I have a few things in mind, to kick the discussion off I'll mention a couple here: * Quality focus 4.8, and 4.8.4 should be highly stable from upstream (changes to the platform are happening in the KDE Frameworks 5 work, so it and any 4.9 are going to be very incremental). As a distribution we can build on this with polish and targeted bugfixing based on our users' feedback. Of course things like Apper + stack, Akonadi + stack, Nepomuk + stack are big items here, but also many things that are simpler to contribute to, such as missing icons, improving translations, clarifying bad strings in the UI, cleaning up the start menu tree, setting default package selections can be done. I support this quality focus so much, guys, you can't even imagine =) Other distributions had their minor glitches removal initiatives (like Ubuntu's "papercuts" stuff), maybe it's finally time for our own? Having a really stable upstream KDE release gives us some more resources on enhancing and polishing SUSE-specific user experience, removing some "papercuts" introduced earlier. For example, KDM alone gives at least three hiccups: *No user list in current theme *No windows domain logon in current theme *Not working kcm module (bnc#267903 will soon be 5 years old, c'mon, guys, fix is rather trivial there)
* Integrate Plasma Active in openSUSE A lot of PA stuff has only been usable using git branches, but these should be mostly integrated to make a current version of PA in openSUSE doable by know. Since open-slx is our downstream, most of the work is already done. I've tried some open-slx images and Plasma Active is absolutely great, but having the ability to easily switch between three available interfaces (plasma-desktop, plasma-netbook and plasma-device) on stock openSUSE will be astonishing (if possible, of course =) ) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Alexander Melentyev <minton@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Integrate Plasma Active in openSUSE A lot of PA stuff has only been usable using git branches, but these should be mostly integrated to make a current version of PA in openSUSE doable by know. Since open-slx is our downstream, most of the work is already done. I've tried some open-slx images and Plasma Active is absolutely great, but having the ability to easily switch between three available interfaces (plasma-desktop, plasma-netbook and plasma-device) on stock openSUSE will be astonishing (if possible, of course =) )
I'm personally much more interested in using Plasma Active widgets and containments on my desktop system, which would also be possible. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Onsdag den 11. januar 2012 12:57:50 Will Stephenson skrev:
Apologies for being so quiet over Xmas - I was gathering the energies for a busy 2012 to make openSUSE bigger than ever.
It's high time we nailed down what we will do for KDE in 12.2.
We can separate these into things we want to do, and things we have to do. None of these lists are complete IMO, please help to fill them out.
I'd like to suggest a strong focus on polishing the default installation/workspace (enabling touchpad tapping by default, a working updater applet, clicking on a local RPM should be able to install it reliably, including video thumbnailer in default install). All these kinds of little niggles that cost us tons of users, and most of which are probably fairly easy to fix. Another little thing that makes a big difference are mimetype associations. Tons of apps are not associated with half of the files they're fully capable of handling. And it makes things so much easier when you can just click on a file and something sensible happens. E.g. you might click on an SVG file which gwenview is perfectly capable of opening, but instead ksuseinstall might pop up and suggest to install some GNOME application (not a verified example). Including Kamoso and Knights in the distribution is a must in my book. And I really hope Akonadi, Nepomuk and Apper/PackageKit will have matured to a point where we can actually focus on polishing the distribution for the last month of the release cycle, instead of scrampling and squeezing in new stuff at the last minute to barely avoid total catastrophe - which has been the case for the last two releases at least. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 17:02, Martin Schlander <martin.schlander@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to suggest a strong focus on polishing the default installation/workspace (enabling touchpad tapping by default
Amusingly... touchpad tap was explicitly disabled by default... See: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=554884 (not looking to revive this discussion, just pointing out that it was flogged to death and a decision was taken on this point) C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Onsdag den 11. januar 2012 17:33:33 C skrev:
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 17:02, Martin Schlander
<martin.schlander@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to suggest a strong focus on polishing the default installation/workspace (enabling touchpad tapping by default
Amusingly... touchpad tap was explicitly disabled by default... See: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=554884
(not looking to revive this discussion, just pointing out that it was flogged to death and a decision was taken on this point)
We can't control what kinds of madness goes on with the stack underneath KDE - e.g. X. But we _can_ enable tapping via Synaptiks settings. Which was done in 11.4, but lost again for 12.1 with the upgrade to new synaptiks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2012-01-11 at 17:33 +0100, C wrote:
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 17:02, Martin Schlander <martin.schlander@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to suggest a strong focus on polishing the default installation/workspace (enabling touchpad tapping by default
Amusingly... touchpad tap was explicitly disabled by default... See: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=554884
(not looking to revive this discussion, just pointing out that it was flogged to death and a decision was taken on this point)
C. What would be better is a way to toggle the behavior. Mine is on by default and I'd like to turn it off, or at least make it so that it won't receive tap clicks while I'm typing.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
* Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> [01-11-12 18:19]:
What would be better is a way to toggle the behavior. Mine is on by default and I'd like to turn it off, or at least make it so that it won't receive tap clicks while I'm typing.
You need to look closer at the app.... Mine on 12.1 has a provision to disable the mousepad while typing.... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2012-01-11 at 18:36 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> [01-11-12 18:19]:
What would be better is a way to toggle the behavior. Mine is on by default and I'd like to turn it off, or at least make it so that it won't receive tap clicks while I'm typing.
You need to look closer at the app.... Mine on 12.1 has a provision to disable the mousepad while typing....
-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net openSUSE always sees my trackpad as a generic mouse. So far the only Linux that saw it correctly and had that toggle available was Mandriva.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Wed 11 Jan 2012 11:52:20 PM EST, Roger Luedecke wrote:
On Wed, 2012-01-11 at 18:36 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> [01-11-12 18:19]:
What would be better is a way to toggle the behavior. Mine is on by default and I'd like to turn it off, or at least make it so that it won't receive tap clicks while I'm typing.
You need to look closer at the app.... Mine on 12.1 has a provision to disable the mousepad while typing....
-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net openSUSE always sees my trackpad as a generic mouse. So far the only Linux that saw it correctly and had that toggle available was Mandriva.
We should also have subpixel hinting switched on by default. Yes? - -- Cheers! Roman - --------------------------------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux - --------------------------------------------------------------- http://counter.li.org #179293 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iF4EAREIAAYFAk8PB+8ACgkQQwhccfmLFXn9bAD/WURz1Q7QF7PWgd6gc0JXZ3kp 5SYfMHNbqPxjAmKeqLYA/RYps7FHywYfdC5ABMgFzmE2M4Hi65r5/kY02wBoBDrT =aMZB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Onsdag den 11. januar 2012 17:02:40 Martin Schlander skrev:
Onsdag den 11. januar 2012 12:57:50 Will Stephenson skrev:
Apologies for being so quiet over Xmas - I was gathering the energies for a busy 2012 to make openSUSE bigger than ever.
It's high time we nailed down what we will do for KDE in 12.2.
I forgot to mention kde-gtk-config and oxygen-gtk3 which will hopefully be ready/shippable for 12.2. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch 11 Januar 2012, 12:57:50 schrieb Will Stephenson:
* Integrate Plasma Active in openSUSE A lot of PA stuff has only been usable using git branches, but these should be mostly integrated to make a current version of PA in openSUSE doable by know. Since open-slx is our downstream, most of the work is already done.
Is that even possible? AFAIK currently Plasma Active or Plasma Desktop are exclusive choices as PD is not compatible with kdelibs+PA patches. Unless something changed in the last two weeks or so, PA3 will be released together with PD 4.9 with both running on KF5 without requiring special patches. Surely KDE upstream will concentrate on PA3, PD 4.9, and KF5, so all further support work would have to be needed to be done by openSUSE KDE Team. It may be worthwhile to postpone PA as supported option to 12.3 because of that. In https://kamikazow.wordpress.com/2011/12/27/very-short-4-8-first-look-from- a-users-perspective/ I explored how I feel that Kontact handles notifications badly as it's often too chatty. Changing a few defaults there is not rocket science. If you guys agree on the notifications aspect, I can take care about that. IMO openSUSE 12.2 should be akin to what 10.3 was: It was released shortly before KDE 4.0 and delivered the best 3.5.x experience out there. It also handpicked a few Qt 4 developments like KDE4-based games. In that spirit 12.2 could ship with Qt 5 and maybe even a few handpicked Qt5/KF5 applications. Markus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/11/2012 03:57 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:
Apologies for being so quiet over Xmas - I was gathering the energies for a busy 2012 to make openSUSE bigger than ever.
It's high time we nailed down what we will do for KDE in 12.2.
We can separate these into things we want to do, and things we have to do. None of these lists are complete IMO, please help to fill them out.
==Have To== These are external factors that we have little influence over, that we have to react to * openSUSE 12.2 Release Schedule 12.2 is scheduled for release on 11 July 2012 [1]. Beta 1 is our traditional freeze for major version bumps, usually about 6 weeks before release, so we have until June to change things. There is no detailed 12.2 roadmap from Coolo yet [2].
* Upstream KDE Release Schedule There is no 4.9 schedule yet (what is it with release managers and christmas?) but since KDE follows a 6-monthly cycle, add a year to the 4.7 schedule and we would have 4.9.0 on July 27 2012. So this is out for us. This means we'll probably have 4.8.4 in 12.2. ** Package version updates ** Default configuration adaptations required by 4.8
* Factors affecting KDE in the rest of the distro Traditionally we end up reacting to these late and 'best-effort', usually because these are changes to the platform authored by redhat, adopted by openSUSE and GNOME gets them for 'free' from upstream RH, or because some other part of SUSE decides it doesn't want to take care of a feature for us any more. I'd like us to be aware of these as early as possible this time, work out the implications and the work required to turn these changes into opportunities for us rather than damage limitation exercises. ** Plymouth as bootsplash ** Systemd changes in 12.2 I don't know what these are, but I suspect they may have some influence on KDM ** Kernel/Driver changes The forces of evolution here may require updates in the KWin driver blacklists we ship ** Updated branding We need to integrate any branding changes that come out of the artwork team and make sure they meet our needs.
==Want To=== These are things we would like to do as a value addition to the purely mechanistic changes pushed on us by upstream.
I have a few things in mind, to kick the discussion off I'll mention a couple here: * Quality focus 4.8, and 4.8.4 should be highly stable from upstream (changes to the platform are happening in the KDE Frameworks 5 work, so it and any 4.9 are going to be very incremental). As a distribution we can build on this with polish and targeted bugfixing based on our users' feedback. Of course things like Apper + stack, Akonadi + stack, Nepomuk + stack are big items here, but also many things that are simpler to contribute to, such as missing icons, improving translations, clarifying bad strings in the UI, cleaning up the start menu tree, setting default package selections can be done. * Improving Activity usability There is still a way to go to make Activities a "Duh! Why didn't we always do things like that". Based on a bit of common sense and a bit of feedback, I think we should be able to make Activities a lot better with a manageable amount of work, and submit this upstream for 4.9. * Integrate Plasma Active in openSUSE A lot of PA stuff has only been usable using git branches, but these should be mostly integrated to make a current version of PA in openSUSE doable by know. Since open-slx is our downstream, most of the work is already done.
As a final note, please keep the discussion constructive - if your only contribution to 12.2 will be a badly spelled thread hijacking to complain about everything we did wrong, you will have just taken 5 minutes out of everyone else who can make useful changes' openSUSE time, so take it to /dev/null and yourself to the opensuse-kde3 perfect code museum list.
[1] http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap [2] http://www.suse.de/~coolo/opensuse_12.2 (eventually) [3] http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.7_Release_Schedule [4] http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.8_Release_Schedule
Looking forward to a fun openSUSE KDE 2012...
Will
FYI, we should have a nice solid Scribus 1.4.1 or 1.4.2 and a decent 1.5.0.svn in Playground for folks. I plan to add the latest svn of Fontmatrix in Extras. Fontmatrix is an awesome font manager if you need one. I will soon have a spare machine running Factory full time for helping the testing. Thanks, Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012, 12:57:50 schrieb Will Stephenson:
==Want To=== These are things we would like to do as a value addition to the purely mechanistic changes pushed on us by upstream.
One of the annoyances about PolicyKit is that its systemsettings module does not work because it edits the wrong files (to take effect). Further if a dialogue opens it provides links to the action to edit its settings, which do not work either. http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2011-11/msg01211.html https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=287317 Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Sven Burmeister <sven.burmeister@gmx.net> wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012, 12:57:50 schrieb Will Stephenson:
==Want To=== These are things we would like to do as a value addition to the purely mechanistic changes pushed on us by upstream.
One of the annoyances about PolicyKit is that its systemsettings module does not work because it edits the wrong files (to take effect). Further if a dialogue opens it provides links to the action to edit its settings, which do not work either.
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2011-11/msg01211.html https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=287317
Sven
It works for me now. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 17. Januar 2012, 12:15:44 schrieb todd rme:
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2011-11/msg01211.html https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=287317
Sven
It works for me now.
Now is what KDE version? ;) And both issues work for you? Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2012-01-17 at 12:01 +0100, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012, 12:57:50 schrieb Will Stephenson:
==Want To=== These are things we would like to do as a value addition to the purely mechanistic changes pushed on us by upstream.
One of the annoyances about PolicyKit is that its systemsettings module does not work because it edits the wrong files (to take effect). Further if a dialogue opens it provides links to the action to edit its settings, which do not work either.
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2011-11/msg01211.html https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=287317
Sven This issue I encountered as well. It is annoying, especially coupled with the security paranoid choices this time around.
Another annoyance that looks fugly is the checkboxes to remember passwords and permanently authorize things that don't work. If they aren't supposed to work, they shouldn't be there at all. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Will Stephenson <wstephenson@suse.de> wrote:
Apologies for being so quiet over Xmas - I was gathering the energies for a busy 2012 to make openSUSE bigger than ever.
It's high time we nailed down what we will do for KDE in 12.2.
We can separate these into things we want to do, and things we have to do. None of these lists are complete IMO, please help to fill them out.
==Have To== These are external factors that we have little influence over, that we have to react to * openSUSE 12.2 Release Schedule 12.2 is scheduled for release on 11 July 2012 [1]. Beta 1 is our traditional freeze for major version bumps, usually about 6 weeks before release, so we have until June to change things. There is no detailed 12.2 roadmap from Coolo yet [2].
* Upstream KDE Release Schedule There is no 4.9 schedule yet (what is it with release managers and christmas?) but since KDE follows a 6-monthly cycle, add a year to the 4.7 schedule and we would have 4.9.0 on July 27 2012. So this is out for us. This means we'll probably have 4.8.4 in 12.2. ** Package version updates ** Default configuration adaptations required by 4.8
* Factors affecting KDE in the rest of the distro Traditionally we end up reacting to these late and 'best-effort', usually because these are changes to the platform authored by redhat, adopted by openSUSE and GNOME gets them for 'free' from upstream RH, or because some other part of SUSE decides it doesn't want to take care of a feature for us any more. I'd like us to be aware of these as early as possible this time, work out the implications and the work required to turn these changes into opportunities for us rather than damage limitation exercises. ** Plymouth as bootsplash ** Systemd changes in 12.2 I don't know what these are, but I suspect they may have some influence on KDM ** Kernel/Driver changes The forces of evolution here may require updates in the KWin driver blacklists we ship ** Updated branding We need to integrate any branding changes that come out of the artwork team and make sure they meet our needs.
==Want To=== These are things we would like to do as a value addition to the purely mechanistic changes pushed on us by upstream.
I have a few things in mind, to kick the discussion off I'll mention a couple here: * Quality focus 4.8, and 4.8.4 should be highly stable from upstream (changes to the platform are happening in the KDE Frameworks 5 work, so it and any 4.9 are going to be very incremental). As a distribution we can build on this with polish and targeted bugfixing based on our users' feedback. Of course things like Apper + stack, Akonadi + stack, Nepomuk + stack are big items here, but also many things that are simpler to contribute to, such as missing icons, improving translations, clarifying bad strings in the UI, cleaning up the start menu tree, setting default package selections can be done. * Improving Activity usability There is still a way to go to make Activities a "Duh! Why didn't we always do things like that". Based on a bit of common sense and a bit of feedback, I think we should be able to make Activities a lot better with a manageable amount of work, and submit this upstream for 4.9. * Integrate Plasma Active in openSUSE A lot of PA stuff has only been usable using git branches, but these should be mostly integrated to make a current version of PA in openSUSE doable by know. Since open-slx is our downstream, most of the work is already done.
As a final note, please keep the discussion constructive - if your only contribution to 12.2 will be a badly spelled thread hijacking to complain about everything we did wrong, you will have just taken 5 minutes out of everyone else who can make useful changes' openSUSE time, so take it to /dev/null and yourself to the opensuse-kde3 perfect code museum list.
[1] http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap [2] http://www.suse.de/~coolo/opensuse_12.2 (eventually) [3] http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.7_Release_Schedule [4] http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.8_Release_Schedule
Looking forward to a fun openSUSE KDE 2012...
Will
Another thing that occurred to me: we are currently building KOffice 2.3 and Calligra 2.4 beta in KDF. I think we probably need to decide on one or the other for 12.2, and either remove the other or move it to KDE:Extra. Calligra is scheduled to have a RC in the middle of February and a release in early March. This would give plenty of time even if the release slips by a month or two. According to the mailing list, the last year the KOffice team planned to release their next version at the same time as KDE SC 4.8, but that obviously didn't happen (they have not even had a beta release yet). They also have a much smaller team, only two significantly active developers over the last few months according to the git logs. So I personally vote for dropping KOffice entirely once Calligra reaches the 2.4 RC stage. A new KOffice package can be created based on the openSUSE 12.1 sources when that team makes a new release, although just going on the relative developer base and the lack of applications like Krita I would say that even then KOffice should probably go in KDE:Extra and Calligra should be the one kept in KDF. This opinion, of course, is subject to revision based on the relative qualities of the releases. It does not look like even Calligra will be ready as a default office suite in time for openSUSE 12.2, they seem to be aiming to have Words at least ready for mainstream use by the next release (2.5), which I have not seen a specific timeline for but judging by their previous release spacing it almost certainly not going to be before openSUSE 12.2 is released. Other applications may be at better stages, but using an office suite without a word processor ready does not strike me as a good idea. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Alexander Melentyev -
C -
Markus Slopianka -
Martin Schlander -
Patrick Shanahan -
Peter Linnell -
Roger Luedecke -
Roman Bysh -
Sven Burmeister -
todd rme -
Will Stephenson -
Yamaban