On Saturday 08 Oct 2011 18:56:45 todd rme wrote:

On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 6:52 PM, dh wrote:

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On Saturday, October 08, 2011, Sascha Manns wrote:

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Hello Mates,

i've read in Stephan's Thread that some of you already using Activities in the Desktop. What Activities you have defined? How do you use it?

The tipping point for me to start using activities was when I found out that specific applications could be started when an activity starts.

I have not been able to figure out how to do this. How did you make it work?

Open the Activity manager panel (not sure what it's officially called). Notice the 'stop' icon on each activity? Stopping an activity performs a local session managed exit of all the applications in that activity, like a partial logout. When you next activate the stopped activity, the apps are restarted with their earlier state. Activities behave the same way when you do a full logout from the desktop; running activities stay running, stopped activities' apps are not restarted on next login until you start to use the activity. HTH Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 12:24 AM, wrote:

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On Saturday, October 08, 2011, Sascha Manns wrote:

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Hello Mates,

i've read in Stephan's Thread that some of you already using Activities in the Desktop. What Activities you have defined? How do you use it?

As I meantioned previously, I use activities in much the same way I use virtual desktops. I have 3 defined activities with 4 virtual desktops each.

Keeping track of 12 Virt Desktops would be cumbersome, but grouping them according to 3 task definitions makes it quite easy.

I have 1 group dedicated to photo management and graphic design. One activity for virtualuzation and media production and one for general office work and web programming.

The tipping point for me to start using activities was when I found out that specific applications could be started when an activity starts.

BTW the only plasmoids are panels or contained in panels (clock, tasks, launchers)

see ya dh ok, i been looking at this thread and been biting my lips in hopes of more self control, but it's a lost cause:) why are you complicating things when

On Saturday 08 October 2011 06:52:23 am dh wrote: there is simply no need to? please kde4 people, take a good hard look at the crap you added just for the sake of adding it, PLEASE take the hard step to get rid of the nosense and PLEASE simplify the system

Activities are no more complex in principle than virtual desktops. However, they provide some additional capabilities, and far more capabilities to come, things that are very useful but simply cannot be done with virtual desktops (like learning your workflow and anticipating what you might need and when, or giving you different tools depending on where your laptop is). But you can make them as simple as virtual desktops if you want, there is no reason they need to be complex.

.......... case in point: ..... just curious: why does the previous poster group photo management w. graphic design, multimedia w. virtualization and office work with web work? if i had the same things to work on, i would have one desktop for photo management, one desktop for graphics, one desktop for virtualization, one desktop for multimedia, one for office and one desktop for web work.

That is the great thing about activities: people can use them with their own work-flow. This is the setup that works with his or her workflow. A different setup would work with your workflow. It is more flexible, allowing people to do things the way they want rather than the way someone else thinks they should.

actually, i really have only 5 desktops total, and, depending on what i want to work on, i load the particular apps to idividual desktops as i need them. The usual suspects do end up in the usual spots: email && browser on d1, multimedia on d2 or d3, office && shtuff on d3 or d4, vm1 on d5, if i need vm2 it goes on d2 or d3 or d4. that's the basic setup, BUT, it can change anytime, all i need is just click on an icon:)

Same with my activities. The advantages currently are: 1. I can set different application launchers in different activites for the applications I commonly use on those activities 2. I can set them to show folders with the files I commonly need for those activities 3. i can set different widgets that help me with tasks in those activities 4. I can start and stop the applications in those activities all at once when I am not using them.

 The computer does not shut down, sooo, as the work evolves, so does the content of individual desktops, repetitive work just naturally becomes / stays repetitive, a new idea just has room to evolve without having to redefine any activities or plasmoids or whatever...

I don't need to redefine activites, either, although occasionally I find another plasma widget or application launcher might be helpful and add it, but that is a couple of click and would be no different if I wasn't using activities, the advantage is I have far fewer widgets and application launchers in each activity.

don't know much about activities, but, it seems ( and every time i tried it has showed me ) that they are an additional level of abstraction and therefore an additional level of complication and rigidity that my approach is proud to be devoid of...

What is rigid about them? It is not like you have to pre-define which application run in which activity, you just go to an activity and open a window. If you don't want a window anymore, you close it. If you are done with an activity, you can stop it and all the applications will close automatically. If you need it again you start it and all the applications start up again, remembering which applications you were using when you closed it. It is all dynamic, based on what you are doing at a given point in time. The is no reason I HAVE to, for instance, use firefox in my web activity, I could open it any other activity if I want. I use it there because that is where my firefox app launcher and downloads folder are located, so it is more convenient.

more seriously tho: suppose you just found out that avidemux did a particular video task that you just must have on this multimedia job you are doing, alas, your activity does not include avidemux in any of your four desktops dedicated to multimedia, how many clicks, how many windows, how many settings and pop up windows would it take to put avidemux in just the right desktop at the right spot ?

 please provide a detailed listing, to show us how these things actually get done.

 for me it would be at the most 4 clicks: 1. go to the desired desktop 2. click on avidemux / alt-f2 avidemux 3. move the upper left corner of the avidemux window to where i want. 4. move the lower right corner of the avidemux window to where i want. then i use what i allready have open in conjuction with the new app and all is well...

For me it would be be at the most 4 clicks: 1. Go to the desired activity 2. click on avidemux /alt-f2 avidemux 3. move the upper left corner of the avidemux window to where i want. 4. move the lower right corner of the avidemux window to where i want. . But I don't use virtual desktops. If you did, it would be 5 clicks. 1. Go to the desired activity 2. Go to the desired virtual desktop 3. click on avidemux /alt-f2 avidemux 4. move the upper left corner of the avidemux window to where i want. 5. move the lower right corner of the avidemux window to where i want.

 i f i feel creative about web design, i could just right click on my desktop (ok, its kde3, i admit it), add a new desktop w. 3 more clicks, and continue with my web design work on a new desktop  without disturbing my freshly set up avidemux....

Adding a new activity is also 3 clicks. Now let me ask you this: you are done with multimedia and need to write something. However, having all those multimedia programs running the background is bogging down your computer. How many clicks would it take you to close them all, then restart them later when you need them? For me it would be two clicks to stop them all, and two to restart them. If you have more than two applications open, it will take more clicks for you (at least as many clicks as you have applications, and at least twice that if they are not sitting right on your panel or desktop).

why would anyone want to mess with this kind of flexibility and artificially complicate it with additional groupings / separations / rules /restrictions? d.

What restrictions? You keep talking about restrictions and rigidity, but activities are not only not rigid, they are are even more flexible than virtual desktops, and will become even more flexible as time goes on. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag, 9. Oktober 2011, 18:27:12 schrieb dh:

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ok, i been looking at this thread and been biting my lips in hopes of more self control, but it's a lost cause:) why are you complicating things when there is simply no need to? please kde4 people, take a good hard look at the crap you added just for the sake of adding it, PLEASE take the hard step to get rid of the nosense and PLEASE simplify the system

I've found openbox to be quite nice as a desktop that provides the simplicity you are asking for.

Don't worry too much about him. He has a history of this kind of attitude which results in this kind of unconstructive emails. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

dh said the following on 10/08/2011 12:52 PM:

On Saturday, October 08, 2011, Sascha Manns wrote:

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Hello Mates,

i've read in Stephan's Thread that some of you already using Activities in the Desktop. What Activities you have defined? How do you use it?

As I meantioned previously, I use activities in much the same way I use virtual desktops. I have 3 defined activities with 4 virtual desktops each.

Keeping track of 12 Virt Desktops would be cumbersome, but grouping them according to 3 task definitions makes it quite easy.

I have 1 group dedicated to photo management and graphic design. One activity for virtualuzation and media production and one for general office work and web programming.

I am amazed by this thread. from my POV it is an argument against using Activities. There are many assertions on the web pages references that are 'not so', that there are options to get around the assertions made. But posts like this on by dh bring tow things to mind. The first is the sheer overload and the results in some kind of attention span deficit. Implicit in the grouping described is that these are all active and have tasks working in them and that the user want to be able to turn to any of them at a moments notice. I would have tough many of these tasks would require more concentration and a longer attention span and prevent distractions. The second is a sort of 'out of sight' out of mind. Within the limits of your 'multi-tasking', which for me is dealing with email and the references in the email, I want the items I'm dealing with showing, even if not on screen. By analogy, my library/bookcases have many books, but I may have 3 or 4 open on my desk that I'm dealing with to look up references for the task at hand. So too do I have the browser and the file manager showing on the task manager (in other windows), but their existence is visible. When it comes to work on something else I shut down email. It would be a distraction. No, not another 'activity' that I can hot-key to. Focus on the task at hand, don't allow distractions. Go google: you will find many articles stressing the importance of focusing on the task at hand. As far as I can see it, Activities are a sort of virtual desktops done differently, so you can group different widgets. If you don't need that then they offer not advantage over virtual desktops and can lead you into bad work practices. Many of the examples of the 'advantages' of Activities I see in this thread and on the 'Net are good examples of bad work practices. -- "Quality is not a sprint; it is a long-distance event." Daniel Hunt. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

dh said the following on 10/08/2011 12:52 PM:

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On Saturday, October 08, 2011, Sascha Manns wrote:

...

Hello Mates,

i've read in Stephan's Thread that some of you already using Activities in the Desktop. What Activities you have defined? How do you use it?

As I meantioned previously, I use activities in much the same way I use virtual desktops. I have 3 defined activities with 4 virtual desktops each.

Keeping track of 12 Virt Desktops would be cumbersome, but grouping them according to 3 task definitions makes it quite easy.

I have 1 group dedicated to photo management and graphic design. One activity for virtualuzation and media production and one for general office work and web programming.

I am amazed by this thread.  from my POV it is an argument against using Activities.

There are many assertions on the web pages references that are 'not so', that there are options to get around the assertions made.

But posts like this on by dh bring tow things to mind.

The first is the sheer overload and the results in some kind of attention span deficit.  Implicit in the grouping described is that these are all active and have tasks working in them and that the user want to be able to turn to any of them at a moments notice.  I would have tough many of these tasks would require more concentration and a longer attention span and prevent distractions.

Why would that be implict? The whole point of activities is you can shut one down when you are done with it and it remembers all of the applications and starts them up again when you start the activity. So when you are not using an activity, you just stop it. When you need it again you start it and all your applications are there waiting for you.

The second is a sort of 'out of sight' out of mind.  Within the limits of your 'multi-tasking', which for me is dealing with email and the references in the email, I want the items I'm dealing with showing, even if not on screen.

Once again, that is an argument for activities, not against them. When youare not using activities you can just close them so they aren't taking resources, trying to grab your attention, or doing anything else. The entire rest of your argument is based on the assumption that you always have every activity with every application running at the same time. This is a problem with virtual desktops, which are always running, but it is not a problem with activities, which you can just close at will. So rather than making a good argument against activites, you are actually making an argument for why activities are superior to virtual desktops. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

todd rme said the following on 10/09/2011 10:09 AM:

The entire rest of your argument is based on the assumption that you always have every activity with every application running at the same time. This is a problem with virtual desktops, which are always running, but it is not a problem with activities, which you can just close at will. So rather than making a good argument against activites, you are actually making an argument for why activities are superior to virtual desktops.

My argument, and I think it your argument too, is against 'sprawl'. Twelve virtual desktops, even if you only have one application in each, is excessive, whether it is implemented as one Activity with 12 vdts or four Activities each with 4 vdts. If they are all running. I have just four vdts; one full-screen application in each. * Mail/thunderbird * Browser/firefox * terminal Why? I'm reading and sending mail and looked up an article to send out the URL. The fourth vdt is for a file manager in case I need to look up a file to attach. When I'm doing something else I shut down TB/FF and run just that application, be it OOWriter or Gimp ... whatever. In that case I may once again need to 'multi-task', to look up file or something on the 'Net. But the point is keep focus. Having a sprawl, be it across one Activity or four. weakens focus. If only one Activity is active, loaded whatever the term is, then fine, that's just like I'm working now but 'automated' instead of starting the applications manually. But having all four Activities and 12 vdts loaded and switching between them on a carousel as I'm switching between TB and FF vdts when I look something up to include in Email, when the 'project focus' of each Activity is different, as has been described in this thread as an example, seems like a good way to reduce your cognitive span. You may as well have 16 phones on your desk all ringing and a house of children and pets ... -- We all have two choices: We can make a living or we can design a life. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

todd rme said the following on 10/09/2011 10:09 AM:

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Why would that be implict?  The whole point of activities is you can shut one down when you are done with it and it remembers all of the applications and starts them up again when you start the activity.  So when you are not using an activity, you just stop it.  When you need it again you start it and all your applications are there waiting for you.

Having revisited this I'm perplexed.

I can see how to create activities and destroy them. Could you help me by explaining how I could load up an activity, say with a collection of word processing tools or a collection of software development tools, then shut it down to resurrect it later in the same state?

That might just prove the initiative for me, and I suspect a few others here.  It would be as if I had a clean new login, but with the same identity :-)

Make sure the "Activity Manager" or "Activities" widget is somewhere. If you are using the "Activity Manager" widget, click the widget, then click the stop button to the right of the activity name. This is the one I use since it is faster. If you are using the "Activities" widget, click the stop button in the upper-right corner of the activity icon. You can also get this by clicking the cashew and then clicking "Activities". The "Activity Bar" widget does not have this capability, unfortunately. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 11 October 2011 08:30, Anton Aylward wrote: todd rme said the following on 10/09/2011 10:09 AM:

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Why would that be implict?  The whole point of activities is you can shut one down when you are done with it and it remembers all of the applications and starts them up again when you start the activity.  So when you are not using an activity, you just stop it.  When you need it again you start it and all your applications are there waiting for you.

Having revisited this I'm perplexed.

I can see how to create activities and destroy them. Could you help me by explaining how I could load up an activity, say with a collection of word processing tools or a collection of software development tools, then shut it down to resurrect it later in the same state?

Detailed explanation if you like/need it: 1. Right click the desktop->Activities 2. Click an Activity that is not loaded up (one with a little red x over it) 3. This newly chosen Activity will be automatically turned on and switched to. 4. Run some programs. 5. Right click the desktop->Activities 6. For one of the two Activities that you are now running, click the black and white stop button 7. The same Activity icon should show a black and white play button now, if you click it, the Activity will load back up with all the previous running programs loaded up again I suggest right clicking the desktop all the time to see your Activities because I believe this option exists no matter what version of KDE4 you are using. It's also doesn't take this many steps to set up and use Activities, but I just wanted you to see what you can do with them :)

That might just prove the initiative for me, and I suspect a few others here.  It would be as if I had a clean new login, but with the same identity :-) -- Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.    Thomas H. Huxley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

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