[opensuse-kde] openSUSE 11.3 KDE branding - forever green? - openSUSE KDE

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[opensuse-kde] openSUSE 11.3 KDE branding - forever green?

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Re: [opensuse-kde] openSUSE 11.3...

Will Stephenson

1 Mar 2010 1 Mar '10

17:56

I had an interesting conversation with the Oxygen team at Tokamak4 here last week. They are the guys who did the openSUSE Air branding for 11.2 as part of the upstream branding collaboration started by KDE. I was asking them whether they'd like to do the 11.3 branding again and the answer was 'Just say the word.' but then we started talking about the colour. It seems that the design used in 11.3 was a real love it or hate it thing. The Oxygen guys pointed out to me that of all the primary colours, green is the one that LCD monitors have the hardest time representing accurately. If you look at any monitor gamut diagram, it's always green that is weakest. The result is that greenish designs look great on the high end external monitors favoured by designers, digital photographers and gadget freaks like me, and look like many other things that are not great on lesser displays, which includes the majority of laptop displays. Other colours display much more reliably. So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time? Will -- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

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Cameron Seader

1 Mar 1 Mar

18:03

I'm all for it. Lets make it look pretty, We can still have the geeko in there. ;-) -Cameron

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On 3/1/2010 at 10:56 AM, in message <201003011856.46733.wstephenson@suse.de>, Will Stephenson wrote: I had an interesting conversation with the Oxygen team at Tokamak4 here last week. They are the guys who did the openSUSE Air branding for 11.2 as part of the upstream branding collaboration started by KDE.

I was asking them whether they'd like to do the 11.3 branding again and the answer was 'Just say the word.' but then we started talking about the colour. It seems that the design used in 11.3 was a real love it or hate it thing. The Oxygen guys pointed out to me that of all the primary colours, green is the one that LCD monitors have the hardest time representing accurately. If

you look at any monitor gamut diagram, it's always green that is weakest. The result is that greenish designs look great on the high end external monitors

favoured by designers, digital photographers and gadget freaks like me, and look like many other things that are not great on lesser displays, which includes the majority of laptop displays. Other colours display much more reliably.

So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

Will

-- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Karsten König

18:16

Ugh, rough spot there, I really like the green, even though I have pretty bad displays. Also I think it's the "suse" color and seperates us from upstream blue and I guess this is what we would end up with. Also what will the rest of opensuse say to that, I think branding color should be somewhat unified. Still I can live with another color, but I find it a pretty serious matter =) Karsten Am Montag, 1. März 2010 18:56:46 schrieb Will Stephenson:

...

I had an interesting conversation with the Oxygen team at Tokamak4 here last week. They are the guys who did the openSUSE Air branding for 11.2 as part of the upstream branding collaboration started by KDE.

I was asking them whether they'd like to do the 11.3 branding again and the answer was 'Just say the word.' but then we started talking about the colour. It seems that the design used in 11.3 was a real love it or hate it thing. The Oxygen guys pointed out to me that of all the primary colours, green is the one that LCD monitors have the hardest time representing accurately. If you look at any monitor gamut diagram, it's always green that is weakest. The result is that greenish designs look great on the high end external monitors favoured by designers, digital photographers and gadget freaks like me, and look like many other things that are not great on lesser displays, which includes the majority of laptop displays. Other colours display much more reliably.

So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

Will

-- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Markus

18:20

Am Montag 01 März 2010 18:56:46 schrieb Will Stephenson:

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The Oxygen guys pointed out to me that of all the primary colours, green is the one that LCD monitors have the hardest time representing accurately. If you look at any monitor gamut diagram, it's always green that is weakest. The result is that greenish designs look great on the high end external monitors favoured by designers, digital photographers and gadget freaks like me, and look like many other things that are not great on lesser displays, which includes the majority of laptop displays. Other colours display much more reliably.

So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

I use a cheap laptop and have no problems with green. The important question however is: Will it match the rest of openSUSE? Personally, I think 11.2 was a bad release from a consistence point of view. While KDE Plasma is the default desktop, it's obvious that the GNOME team decides on the artwork for everything else: Grub Boot Splash Open Office splash (even with KDE integration) GIMP splash ... So now the result on 11.2 is that Boot Splash and KSplash look completely different. It doesn't even have the same shades of green. Boot Splash has a pattern that looks like a twine, KSplash has circles. Etc. To make matters worse, KDM's background image is brurry, while the "same" KSlash image is not. So if 11.3 gets a non-greenish theme, will it result in an even bigger departure from the rest? I'd like to see a theme that's consistent across the board for all 11.3 components, the color doesn't really matter to me (as long as it's not blue -- everybody uses blue: Windows 7, Mac OS X, Kubuntu, Mandriva,...). Markus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Will Stephenson

18:36

On Monday 01 March 2010 19:20:59 Markus wrote:

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Am Montag 01 März 2010 18:56:46 schrieb Will Stephenson:

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The Oxygen guys pointed out to me that of all the primary colours, green is the one that LCD monitors have the hardest time representing accurately. If you look at any monitor gamut diagram, it's always green that is weakest. The result is that greenish designs look great on the high end external monitors favoured by designers, digital photographers and gadget freaks like me, and look like many other things that are not great on lesser displays, which includes the majority of laptop displays. Other colours display much more reliably.

So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

I use a cheap laptop and have no problems with green.

The important question however is: Will it match the rest of openSUSE?

Personally, I think 11.2 was a bad release from a consistence point of view. While KDE Plasma is the default desktop, it's obvious that the GNOME team decides on the artwork for everything else: Grub Boot Splash Open Office splash (even with KDE integration) GIMP splash

This was actually because we didn't start early enough with the branding work and wanted to 'try out' how well working with upstream worked. For 11.3 we can have all of these items KDE-branded.

...

So now the result on 11.2 is that Boot Splash and KSplash look completely different. It doesn't even have the same shades of green. Boot Splash has a pattern that looks like a twine, KSplash has circles. Etc. To make matters worse, KDM's background image is brurry, while the "same" KSlash image is not.

So if 11.3 gets a non-greenish theme, will it result in an even bigger departure from the rest? I'd like to see a theme that's consistent across the board for all 11.3 components, the color doesn't really matter to me (as long as it's not blue -- everybody uses blue: Windows 7, Mac OS X, Kubuntu, Mandriva,...).

Let's kick the idea around a bit here, then we can go out to the rest of openSUSE with what we come up with. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Markus

19:47

Am Montag 01 März 2010 19:36:06 schrieb Will Stephenson:

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This was actually because we didn't start early enough with the branding work and wanted to 'try out' how well working with upstream worked. For 11.3 we can have all of these items KDE-branded.

Now that would be great :-D I kinda fell in love with the Plasma Mobile wallpaper that could be seen in recent blog postings: http://blog.morpheuz.cc/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/collapsedmenu.jpg I especially like the colors near the downwards facing white stripe in the lower left corner. As chameleons can take a variety of colors, green is no must, even though I also like openSUSE's "green" brand. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chameleon02.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_modern_pet.jpg Markus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

19:31

On 2010/03/01 13:20 (GMT-0500) Markus composed:

...

2010/03/01 18:56 (GMT+0100) Will Stephenson composed: ...

...
So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

I read a book a long time ago called "Dress for Success". The only thing I remember from it is successful people as a group avoid green. SUSE has done a first class job of picking greens I don't like, often those that bring baby diapers to mind. The only colors they could have picked I would have liked less would have been yellows and browns. I wouldn't miss green at all unless the switch was to those. OTOH, I definitely would not mind seeing something less common, like mauve, apricot, peach, lavender, plum, emerald, lilac, mulberry, or a blend resembling this from Wikipedia's Purple page: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Scrocuses2A.jpg/150... Teal (blue or green) is OK too.

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the color doesn't really matter to me (as long as it's not blue -- everybody uses blue: Windows 7, Mac OS X, Kubuntu, Mandriva,...).

Blues are more popular than most colors, including green: http://tinyurl.com/ygufyxe -- "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams, 2nd US President Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Graham Anderson

20:35

On Monday 01 March 2010 20:31:56 Felix Miata wrote:

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I read a book a long time ago called "Dress for Success". The only thing I remember from it is successful people as a group avoid green.

I could summarise that book in one sentence. Groom yourself and wear neutral colours. Famous, successful and iconic imagery associated with the colour green includes but is not limited to: Glasgow Celtic Football Club, Irish Rugby Team, Ireland, Robin Hood, The Green Lantern, Boston Celtics, The US Masters' winners blazer, Spinach (yum!), Green Day (rock on!), THE GREENBACK!

...

SUSE has done a first class job of picking greens I don't like, often those that bring baby diapers to mind. The only colors they could have picked I would have liked less would have been yellows and browns. I wouldn't miss green at all unless the switch was to those.

...

OTOH, I definitely would not mind seeing something less common, like mauve, apricot, peach, lavender, plum, emerald, lilac, mulberry, or a blend resembling this from Wikipedia's Purple page: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Scrocuses2A.jpg/150 px-Scrocuses2A.jpg

Teal (blue or green) is OK too.

You don't like greens or yellows but you just listed 2 shades of yellow and 2 shades of green. -- “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” - Christopher Hitchens -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

21:05

On 2010/03/01 21:35 (GMT+0100) Graham Anderson composed:

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Felix Miata typed:

...

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OTOH, I definitely would not mind seeing something less common, like mauve, apricot, peach, lavender, plum, emerald, lilac, mulberry, or a blend resembling this from Wikipedia's Purple page: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Scrocuses2A.jpg/150 px-Scrocuses2A.jpg

...

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Teal (blue or green) is OK too.

...

You don't like greens or yellows but you just listed 2 shades of yellow and 2 shades of green.

I didn't say I didn't like any greens. I just don't like the yellow & brown greens SUSE usually picks for themes. I call those two oranges, not yellows, even though they tend more toward yellow than orange. :-) -- "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams, 2nd US President Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Graham Anderson

21:30

On Monday 01 March 2010 22:05:46 Felix Miata wrote:

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I didn't say I didn't like any greens. I just don't like the yellow & brown greens SUSE usually picks for themes.

I call those two oranges, not yellows, even though they tend more toward yellow than orange. :-)

Green is a hard colour to get right, least of all because it displays so differently depending on the hardware at hand. While I liked the openSUSE 11.2 KDE green there's every possibility I would not like it when looking at it on other hardware. I have an old Iiyama 22" CRT that was amazing hardware for it's day, it still displays most things nice and crisply but some greens appear almost black. -- “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” - Christopher Hitchens -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Matt Williams

2 Mar 2 Mar

11:35

On 1 March 2010 19:31, Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 2010/03/01 13:20 (GMT-0500) Markus composed:

...
2010/03/01 18:56 (GMT+0100) Will Stephenson composed: ...

...
So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

I read a book a long time ago called "Dress for Success". The only thing I remember from it is successful people as a group avoid green.

SUSE has done a first class job of picking greens I don't like, often those that bring baby diapers to mind. The only colors they could have picked I would have liked less would have been yellows and browns. I wouldn't miss green at all unless the switch was to those.

OTOH, I definitely would not mind seeing something less common, like mauve, apricot, peach, lavender, plum, emerald, lilac, mulberry, or a blend resembling this from Wikipedia's Purple page: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Scrocuses2A.jpg/150...

Teal (blue or green) is OK too.

...
the color doesn't really matter to me (as long as it's not blue -- everybody uses blue: Windows 7, Mac OS X, Kubuntu, Mandriva,...).

Blues are more popular than most colors, including green: http://tinyurl.com/ygufyxe

That is the most thoroughly confusing poll I've ever seen! That poll actually says that green is the second most popular colour anyway (as much as it tries to convince you otherwise). -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Daniele

1 Mar 1 Mar

18:24

Il lunedì 01 marzo 2010, Will Stephenson scrisse:

...

So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time? I 'like the green but nothing against the change. But one thing, now there is too much difference between grub/bootslplash and the desktop. The former is too dark, the latter is too light. IMHO... Bye.

-- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Vojtěch Zeisek

19:10

Hello Dne Po 1. března 2010 18:56:46 Will Stephenson napsal(a):

...

I had an interesting conversation with the Oxygen team at Tokamak4 here last week. They are the guys who did the openSUSE Air branding for 11.2 as part of the upstream branding collaboration started by KDE.

I was asking them whether they'd like to do the 11.3 branding again and the answer was 'Just say the word.' but then we started talking about the colour. It seems that the design used in 11.3 was a real love it or hate it thing. The Oxygen guys pointed out to me that of all the primary colours, green is the one that LCD monitors have the hardest time representing accurately. If you look at any monitor gamut diagram, it's

I have webs with green themes and it is very different on almost any monitor, but I run openSUSE on old cheap laptop, middle class laptop and on cheap new monitor and it looks almost same. Might be there are tones, which are good everywhere. :-) I do not know.

...

always green that is weakest. The result is that greenish designs look great on the high end external monitors favoured by designers, digital photographers and gadget freaks like me, and look like many other things that are not great on lesser displays, which includes the majority of laptop displays. Other colours display much more reliably.

So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

Why not, but I would for sure keep something like package with 11.2 theme to enable very quick and easy replacement of new theme (whatever it is) by "old good green". :-)

...

Will

-- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex

Best regards -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu / Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://web.natur.cuni.cz/~zeisek/

Graham Anderson

19:36

On Monday 01 March 2010 18:56:46 Will Stephenson wrote:

...

So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

I would be in favour of it with one proviso. We return to green every now and then at least once per major version. I would prefer to have the green theme for a x.2 or x.3 release because since openSUSE 10 I think it's fair to say; the x.0/x.1 releases have been nowhere near as well received as the x.2/x.3. -- “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” - Christopher Hitchens -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Rastislav Krupanský

20:24

Dňa 1. 3. 2010 18:56, Will Stephenson napísal(a):

...

So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

Will

It would be very welcome in my case and i think it´s a good idea. Iirc 10, 10.1 and 10.2 had a blue color, so it could be a nice change. But you should better collaborate with Gnome and art teams, because 11.2 has too many contrasts - boot splash, kdm/gdm, kde/gnome wallpaper totally different, software splashes...A better consistence is missing. But please, don´t use grey or dark colors like Ubuntu, it looks like shit bucket. Sorry, but i had to write it. -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

20:33

Mandag den 1. marts 2010 18:56:46 skrev Will Stephenson:

...

I had an interesting conversation with the Oxygen team at Tokamak4 here last week. They are the guys who did the openSUSE Air branding for 11.2 as part of the upstream branding collaboration started by KDE.

I was asking them whether they'd like to do the 11.3 branding again and the answer was 'Just say the word.'

Question is if we want that. Like others I find it problematic that kdm and ksplash are so "out of sync" with the dvd installer, grub, bootsplash and gdm - it makes KDE seem foreign and out of place imho - like it was put on openSUSE with duct tape, and isn't the default desktop. It was an interesting experiment, but I'd prefer to use jimmac's work in 11.3 for consistency reasons. That is unless we can have the Oxygen guys do the whole distro consistently from end to end (dvd installer, grub, boot, kdm, ksplash, wallpaper) which I would happily let them do ;-) However I would be more than happy to let the Oxygen guys do a wallpaper for inclusion - though not necessarily as the default.

...

The Oxygen guys pointed out to me that of all the primary colours, green is the one that LCD monitors have the hardest time representing accurately. If you look at any monitor gamut diagram, it's always green that is weakest. The result is that greenish designs look great on the high end external monitors favoured by designers, digital photographers and gadget freaks like me, and look like many other things that are not great on lesser displays, which includes the majority of laptop displays. Other colours display much more reliably.

Yeah. The 11.2 wallpaper looks really crappy (literally) on my klaptop - while it looks really great on my workstation (I'm actually still using it there, and I've never kept the default wallpaper for more than a couple of days before :-) But I've never seen problems with Jimmac's green work, nor the pre-Jimmac green artwork.

...

So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

I'm all about the green. It may be possible to do something else that'd pretty uniquely identify and distinguish openSUSE from other stuff - but I'd need to see it to believe it. Overall I think the best choice is to use Jimmac and his dark, melancolic, greyish stuff with a faint hint of green. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Javier Llorente

22:08

On Monday 01 March 2010 21:33:22 Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Mandag den 1. marts 2010 18:56:46 skrev Will Stephenson:

...
I had an interesting conversation with the Oxygen team at Tokamak4 here last week. They are the guys who did the openSUSE Air branding for 11.2 as part of the upstream branding collaboration started by KDE.

I was asking them whether they'd like to do the 11.3 branding again and the answer was 'Just say the word.'

Question is if we want that. Like others I find it problematic that kdm and ksplash are so "out of sync" with the dvd installer, grub, bootsplash and gdm - it makes KDE seem foreign and out of place imho - like it was put on openSUSE with duct tape, and isn't the default desktop.

I would add to that list the icons used on the DVD installer.

...

It was an interesting experiment, but I'd prefer to use jimmac's work in 11.3 for consistency reasons. That is unless we can have the Oxygen guys do the whole distro consistently from end to end (dvd installer, grub, boot, kdm, ksplash, wallpaper) which I would happily let them do ;-)

However I would be more than happy to let the Oxygen guys do a wallpaper for inclusion - though not necessarily as the default.

...
The Oxygen guys pointed out to me that of all the primary colours, green is the one that LCD monitors have the hardest time representing accurately. If you look at any monitor gamut diagram, it's always green that is weakest. The result is that greenish designs look great on the high end external monitors favoured by designers, digital photographers and gadget freaks like me, and look like many other things that are not great on lesser displays, which includes the majority of laptop displays. Other colours display much more reliably.

Yeah. The 11.2 wallpaper looks really crappy (literally) on my klaptop - while it looks really great on my workstation (I'm actually still using it there, and I've never kept the default wallpaper for more than a couple of days before :-)

But I've never seen problems with Jimmac's green work, nor the pre-Jimmac green artwork.

...
So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

I'm all about the green. It may be possible to do something else that'd pretty uniquely identify and distinguish openSUSE from other stuff - but I'd need to see it to believe it.

Green is part of openSUSE's identity but I remember having seen some "blue" openSUSEs. Maybe we could use blue with some green dots. I like both green and blue. BTW, the recommended openSUSE colors are here: http://en.opensuse.org/Help:Colors

...

Overall I think the best choice is to use Jimmac and his dark, melancolic, greyish stuff with a faint hint of green.

I prefer more vivid colours. Greetings, -- Javier Llorente

Graham Anderson

22:55

I should also add that I think the default light grey shades used for window decorations do not do KDE4 a great service. My screens are well calibrated and the subtle gradients used for window decorations are _too_ subtle with the default oxygen/suse light grey. I'm quite sure many people never see them at all. A slightly darker grey (not dark grey, just darker) brings out the gradients more, and some nice use of colour here would work wonders I'm sure. I may be being slightly subjective here so feel free to chip in if you feel the opposite way but you might see what I mean if you install the "LuckyEyes" colour theme[1]. [1]http://jwww.kde-look.org/content/show.php/LuckyEyes?content=101360 -- “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” - Christopher Hitchens -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Carlos Goncalves

2 Mar 2 Mar

12:11

On Monday 01 March 2010 17:56:46 Will Stephenson wrote:

...

So how would you feel if we had a non-green release this time?

Geeko is a chameleon and thus changing colors is a perfectly normal behavior. Enough said IMO ;-) -- Regards, Carlos Goncalves -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

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13 participants

participants (13)

Cameron Seader
Carlos Goncalves
Daniele
Felix Miata
Graham Anderson
Javier Llorente
Karsten König
Markus
Martin Schlander
Matt Williams
Rastislav Krupanský
Vojtěch Zeisek
Will Stephenson