[opensuse-kde] kde3 in factory
Hi, I went ahead and dropped most of kde3 from factory. The runtime needed is still there, but the desktop won't be functional anymore and as such there won't be any patterns offered from factory installs. We should discuss if we want to keep it all in KDE:KDE3 and merge KDE:MIsc and KDE:Community in. Or we could continue the push to Contrib discussion, but first we need people to take care of KDE3. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 2009/02/13 12:53 (GMT+0100) Stephan Kulow composed:
I went ahead and dropped most of kde3 from factory. The runtime needed is still there, but the desktop won't be functional anymore and as such there won't be any patterns offered from factory installs.
We should discuss if we want to keep it all in KDE:KDE3 and merge KDE:MIsc and KDE:Community in. Or we could continue the push to Contrib discussion, but first we need people to take care of KDE3.
I'm not ready to drop KDE3 from any of my 7 existing Factory installs. Changing from KDE3 to KDE4 is like changing from Mac OS X to Windows Vista. I won't have time for that any time before KDE 4.3 is final. Is there some way to lock KDE3 in place while allowing zypper up or zypper dup to update the rest of Factory? I looked through /etc/zypp/zypp.conf, and nothing about locking installed rpms jumped at me. There's a reference to a locks file, but none exists, nor is there any indication what it might be for. -- "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up." Ephesians 4:29 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On February Saturday 14 2009 12:01:31 am Felix Miata wrote:
On 2009/02/13 12:53 (GMT+0100) Stephan Kulow composed:
I went ahead and dropped most of kde3 from factory. The runtime needed is still there, but the desktop won't be functional anymore and as such there won't be any patterns offered from factory installs.
We should discuss if we want to keep it all in KDE:KDE3 and merge KDE:MIsc and KDE:Community in. Or we could continue the push to Contrib discussion, but first we need people to take care of KDE3.
I'm not ready to drop KDE3 from any of my 7 existing Factory installs. Changing from KDE3 to KDE4 is like changing from Mac OS X to Windows Vista. I won't have time for that any time before KDE 4.3 is final.
You are correct there, it really is a greater shock than if one had never seen a Linux (tm) desktop at all. Worse, It seems to be a bit schizoid in it's approach. It's going to be a desktop... no it's going to be essentially a folder ( container) for ?? I have no idea. I'm not certain the folks doing the "makeover" know quite where they want to take it. If you look at the K-menu in either or both Kde 3.5 and 4.x they are radically different. Much more different than any prior 'new' version of kde that I can remember. It's really nice if you have great pictures for the background. ( I do) but it's disconcerting otherwise. There is a lot of stuff on the panel I wouldn't have chosen, but I've not used it much ( KDE4.2- ish) I guess it's like anything else that has been thru a lot of change. Those of you who have been able to work w/ it since the beginning see great strides that have been taken. The rest of us wonder w'appened ? Where did my stuff go.. why can't I get it to do foo ? ( Probably because they might not have a widget for that yet.) or , as w/ the weather app, it doesn't seem to have the functionality that the Kweather application has in kde3.5 When I look at the icon on the panel, it shows only a number I am assuming that is the current temp. But there really is no way to know. And since I'm in a location where a weather warning might mean the difference between life or death, quite literally, I feel a bit slighted. I know there is no slight intended it's just the whole *new* system is such a departure from the versions we've been working w/.
Is there some way to lock KDE3 in place while allowing zypper up or zypper dup to update the rest of Factory? I looked through /etc/zypp/zypp.conf, and nothing about locking installed rpms jumped at me. There's a reference to a locks file, but none exists, nor is there any indication what it might be for. --
I don't see one 'lock' file but most of the individual apps , or perhaps only the ones which might carry over data from one version of Kde to another has them. If you go to your .kde4 ( dot kde4) you will see things like email and the address book and these have some variant of a lock file. I think that usage is so the program knows it has some data it might not expect. ( or not.. it's late -ish h ) There is not likely to be a lock file since there have been various parts of the KDE3.5 DT which are *updated* w/ version 4.x files. the Kdebase files seem to be now merged. I'm sure there are others. <snip>
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
From one who began gui computing w/ Os/2 and was ( still am) desolate to see it go. Of course the shoe salesman who promised us that he would keep OS/2 going ( and who promptly dumped it as fast as he could do.) Silly man didn't understand IBM's reasoning when he took over.. think he lasted maybe a year possibly 2. I think that dumping OS/2 was the 1st time IBM had dropped a system for whom they still had ( commercial) customers . Obviously those of us who had small businesses were unlikely to ever spend enough green to make it practical, there were a huge number of banks, a couple of Wall Street firms, and several hospitals and other big money businesses . -- j -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On February 13, 2009 10:11:58 pm jfweber@gilweber.com wrote:
From one who began gui computing w/ Os/2 and was ( still am) desolate to see it go. Of course the shoe salesman who promised us that he would keep OS/2 going ( and who promptly dumped it as fast as he could do.) Silly man didn't understand IBM's reasoning when he took over.. think he lasted maybe a year possibly 2. I think that dumping OS/2 was the 1st time IBM had dropped a system for whom they still had ( commercial) customers .
Obviously those of us who had small businesses were unlikely to ever spend enough green to make it practical, there were a huge number of banks, a couple of Wall Street firms, and several hospitals and other big money businesses .
A couple of years ago, when I was a Director for mid-size Credit Union, I was at a conference where IBM was pushing their latest and greatest ATM. I told them after my experience with OS/2, I had no confidence in their willingness to support customers longterm. I did really like OS/2, too. -- Robert (Bob) Smits bob@rsmits.ca -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 14 February 2009, jfweber@gilweber.com wrote:
Changing from KDE3 to KDE4 is like changing from Mac OS X to Windows Vista. I won't have time for that any time before KDE 4.3 is final. You are correct there, it really is a greater shock than if one had never seen a Linux (tm) desktop at all.
Hi, KDE3 is not lost, it lives in the Build Service now, in the KDE:KDE3 repository. And it will stay there as long as somebody is still around that cares enough to fix the build once in a while. However, reducing the number of packages being maintained in openSUSE is our way to focus on making the future KDE, KDE4 a better desktop for everyone who is interested in using it, and less like a change like from OSX to Vista. There are infinite things we could do, but unless somebody finds a way to make 48 hours per day, we do have to focus at some point. Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Sunday 15 February 2009 18:59:18 Dirk Müller wrote:
KDE3 is not lost, it lives in the Build Service now, in the KDE:KDE3 repository. And it will stay there as long as somebody is still around that cares enough to fix the build once in a while.
The thing is that most of the people aren't quite clarified about what that would require, since KDE3 is solid rock. For instance, what are those "amusing things" that came up during openSUSE 11.1 development or might come to happen in a near future given your KDE packaging experience? Once these KDE3 lovers questions get answered I think there might be a chance KDE3 be kept maintained by the community for a very long time. -- Regards, Carlos Goncalves -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag 16 Februar 2009 schrieb Carlos Goncalves:
Hi,
On Sunday 15 February 2009 18:59:18 Dirk Müller wrote:
KDE3 is not lost, it lives in the Build Service now, in the KDE:KDE3 repository. And it will stay there as long as somebody is still around that cares enough to fix the build once in a while.
The thing is that most of the people aren't quite clarified about what that would require, since KDE3 is solid rock. For instance, what are those "amusing things" that came up during openSUSE 11.1 development or might come to happen in a near future given your KDE packaging experience?
Once these KDE3 lovers questions get answered I think there might be a chance KDE3 be kept maintained by the community for a very long time.
Well, maintaining knetworkmanager3 against always changing NM API, or finding a way to embed the kde4 networkmanager applet - or go with nm-applet. Maintain the theming so the desktop doesn't look like 11.1 forever. Adapt to e.g. changing Xorg or default fonts in factory. Adapt the mount policies to the always changing HAL. Adapt all packages to always changing packaging policies in factory (e.g. just recently sr@Latn was dropped, but quite some of our kde3 packages still used it). I guess I could go on with a long list, but it might be enough for people to judge if they like the challenge more than the challenge to switch their desktop :) Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 16 February 2009, Carlos Goncalves wrote:
The thing is that most of the people aren't quite clarified about what that would require, since KDE3 is solid rock. For instance, what are those "amusing things" that came up during openSUSE 11.1 development or might come to happen in a near future given your KDE packaging experience?
Once these KDE3 lovers questions get answered I think there might be a chance KDE3 be kept maintained by the community for a very long time.
We had to solve various dependency / conflict issues with parallel KDE3/KDE4 installation, but other than that and the occassional Hal breakage like with every distribution update, there was no significant work put into KDE3 afaik. Of course, tracking all the regressions by a lower level library being updated alone is enough maintenance burden. Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2009/02/13 12:53 (GMT+0100) Stephan Kulow composed:
I went ahead and dropped most of kde3 from factory. The runtime needed is still there, but the desktop won't be functional anymore and as such there won't be any patterns offered from factory installs.
We should discuss if we want to keep it all in KDE:KDE3 and merge KDE:MIsc and KDE:Community in. Or we could continue the push to Contrib discussion, but first we need people to take care of KDE3.
I'm not ready to drop KDE3 from any of my 7 existing Factory installs. Changing from KDE3 to KDE4 is like changing from Mac OS X to Windows Vista. I won't have time for that any time before KDE 4.3 is final.
Is there some way to lock KDE3 in place while allowing zypper up or zypper dup to update the rest of Factory? I looked through /etc/zypp/zypp.conf, and nothing about locking installed rpms jumped at me. There's a reference to a locks file, but none exists, nor is there any indication what it might be for.
I lock my programs, including kde3, in yast software manager by searching the package or selecting a pattern and clicking all in this list > protected - do not modify. I do this to reduce the size of zypper dup and also to keep the 11.1 packman packages.. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 10:14:31 schrieb Dave Plater:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2009/02/13 12:53 (GMT+0100) Stephan Kulow composed:
I went ahead and dropped most of kde3 from factory. The runtime needed is still there, but the desktop won't be functional anymore and as such there won't be any patterns offered from factory installs.
We should discuss if we want to keep it all in KDE:KDE3 and merge KDE:MIsc and KDE:Community in. Or we could continue the push to Contrib discussion, but first we need people to take care of KDE3.
I'm not ready to drop KDE3 from any of my 7 existing Factory installs. Changing from KDE3 to KDE4 is like changing from Mac OS X to Windows Vista. I won't have time for that any time before KDE 4.3 is final.
Is there some way to lock KDE3 in place while allowing zypper up or zypper dup to update the rest of Factory? I looked through /etc/zypp/zypp.conf, and nothing about locking installed rpms jumped at me. There's a reference to a locks file, but none exists, nor is there any indication what it might be for.
locking is not a good idea since other incompatible changes might break your old packages later. Better is to add the Factory repo from KDE:KDE3 project to keep a KDE 3 installation. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Saturday 14 February 2009 10:14:31 schrieb Dave Plater:
I lock my programs, including kde3, in yast software manager by searching the package or selecting a pattern and clicking all in this list > protected - do not modify. I do this to reduce the size of zypper dup and also to keep the 11.1 packman packages..
So none of you likes to maintain kde:kde3, is that correct? Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 14 February 2009 06:10:08 am Stephan Kulow wrote:
So none of you likes to maintain kde:kde3, is that correct?
It is lesser about liking, more about "don't know how". ;-) What do you think why everybody is switching to KDE4, instead for instance to fork/improve KDE3? -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Saturday 14 February 2009 15:22:15 schrieb Rajko M.:
On Saturday 14 February 2009 06:10:08 am Stephan Kulow wrote:
So none of you likes to maintain kde:kde3, is that correct?
It is lesser about liking, more about "don't know how". ;-)
What do you think why everybody is switching to KDE4, instead for instance to fork/improve KDE3? Because KDE4 is great and maintained by someone else.
Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Carlos Goncalves -
Dave Plater -
Dirk Müller -
Felix Miata -
jfweber＠gilweber.com -
Rajko M. -
Robert Smits -
Stephan Kulow