Am Sonntag, 29. Januar 2012, 16:34:42 schrieb Basil Chupin:

One of the great things about Linux is the variety of choices one has in using what one's heart desires.

And the really great thing about openSUSE is this vast choice which one gets to select from when one wants to install something.

Take for example the choice of repos when one comes to, say, something like KDE. There is the Factory repo. There is the Unstable repo. And there is Stable repo. Not to mention the Playground repo. Oh, I missed the SC repo.

All good stuff.

But what do they REALLY mean to the man in the street? SFA really.

I am reading that KDE 4.8 has been officially released but as yet has not quite reached openSUSE repo(s) [something about being built, or something].

Would it be presumptuous of me to ask the powers-to-be to please clearly announce when KDE 4.8 becomes available and announce in, say, opensuse-announce and even in this mail list but to also CLEARLY state what the repos are and should be added to Software Management repository list to be able to upgrade one's (12.1 system, now running KDE 4.7) to KDE 4.8?

Pretty please?

But with another condition as an addendum: none of this KFC, CIA, ABC. et al local, gooblydook, jargon abbreviations but real, true to life, list of all the repositories required to get the job done such as (picked out of thin air):

http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Unstable:/Playground/ [EXAMPLE ONLY!]

OK? Is it a deal?

BC

+1 in all points! I wrote it in another thread here on the list even once. Not only did I find this whole deal with the repositories for KDE no longer traceable. I mean that I can even understand yet (at least until yesterday ;-) ), but other users are not the user rather than active participants (wiki, etc). This ranges from the duplicate repos, to the lack of official announcement when a repo equipped and ready for users is usable. Especially with the release of the repos for a release. Example on the upstream repos (release 48) could again observe very good as it should not go. Repo is public even before the packages were built completely finished. Shortly after the first packages of 4.8 in the repos were, have already appeared in the first user forums, and have complained that the system would have destroyed their repos. That would have been avoided if all that is released upstream (4.8) when all packages are fully assembled. A classic example how it should proceed. Clearly we need people to test the whole thing. But perhaps you can do this with interested members of the KDE project. If the "chosen" to get the access is not public, can then test if the installation is running correctly, can resolve all dependencies, and a general ability to run is given. Then everything is correct and it works, you can then publish the repos. You have to get away get away faster and faster and more superficial. So you look at the dirty reputation. Better is better to wait a day longer and stable material but on the computer. Unfortunately, my objections were ignored rather quickly, or are lost in the jungle thread. But maybe it was just the bad English. Regardless, it is long overdue sort out these repos is jungle at the KDE project. Clarity prevents incorrect use and therefore the error caused by improperly used repos. Sometimes less can be more .... this also applies to repository! Thanks for doing! -- °/° Grüße aus dem Schwabenland, °\° gewünscht & gesendet von Linuxsusefan, ^/^ openSUSE Member, ~ die_"SuS(i)E"_sei_mit_euch,_wo_immer_ihr_seid!

Søndag den 29. januar 2012 16:34:42 Basil Chupin skrev:

But what do they REALLY mean to the man in the street? SFA really.

Would it be presumptuous of me to ask the powers-to-be to please clearly announce when KDE 4.8 becomes available and announce in, say, opensuse-announce and even in this mail list but to also CLEARLY state what the repos are and should be added to Software Management repository list to be able to upgrade one's (12.1 system, now running KDE 4.7) to KDE 4.8?

That old song again? The man in the street has no interest in playing around with unsupported, untested KDE packages, risking to break his system. That is for geeks and enthusiasts. And if you can't decipher the darn wiki page which has been mentioned and explained on this list a million times at least, then you should probably just stop playing with those repos yourself. http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag 29 Januar 2012, 11:05:05 schrieb Martin Schlander:

Søndag den 29. januar 2012 16:34:42 Basil Chupin skrev:

...

But what do they REALLY mean to the man in the street? SFA really.

Would it be presumptuous of me to ask the powers-to-be to please clearly announce when KDE 4.8 becomes available and announce in, say, opensuse-announce and even in this mail list but to also CLEARLY state what the repos are and should be added to Software Management repository list to be able to upgrade one's (12.1 system, now running KDE 4.7) to KDE 4.8?

That old song again?

The man in the street has no interest in playing around with unsupported, untested KDE packages, risking to break his system.

not really. the "man in the street" operates like this: - finds a problem with something in his current KD 4.7.x - googles for solution - finds "solved in KDE 4.8" - reads "KDE 4.8 released" on osnews or heise - WANTS kde 4.8 and you're telling that "man in the street" to wait for the next suse release, which might just as well have KDE 4.9.0 instead, if the timing is just right? sorry, but I don't think you're heading the right way. bye, MH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag, 29. Januar 2012, 11:05:05 schrieb Martin Schlander:

Søndag den 29. januar 2012 16:34:42 Basil Chupin skrev:

...

But what do they REALLY mean to the man in the street? SFA really.

Would it be presumptuous of me to ask the powers-to-be to please clearly announce when KDE 4.8 becomes available and announce in, say, opensuse-announce and even in this mail list but to also CLEARLY state what the repos are and should be added to Software Management repository list to be able to upgrade one's (12.1 system, now running KDE 4.7) to KDE 4.8?

That old song again?

The man in the street has no interest in playing around with unsupported, untested KDE packages, risking to break his system.

That is for geeks and enthusiasts. And if you can't decipher the darn wiki page which has been mentioned and explained on this list a million times at least, then you should probably just stop playing with those repos yourself.

http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories

+1 An also the Monitor pages of the repos in OBS were also mentioned several times. Everybody can have a look what the current state is https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3ARelease%3A48 https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3ADistro%3AFactory and if publishing is enabled or not https://build.opensuse.org/project/repositories?project=KDE%3ARelease%3A48 https://build.opensuse.org/project/repositories?project=KDE%3ADistro%3AFacto... Everybody who is not able to do this or does not want this should stay with the plain distribution IMHO. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag, 29. Januar 2012, 11:30:38 schrieb Christian Trippe:

Am Sonntag, 29. Januar 2012, 11:05:05 schrieb Martin Schlander:

...

Søndag den 29. januar 2012 16:34:42 Basil Chupin skrev:

...

But what do they REALLY mean to the man in the street? SFA really.

Would it be presumptuous of me to ask the powers-to-be to please clearly announce when KDE 4.8 becomes available and announce in, say, opensuse-announce and even in this mail list but to also CLEARLY state what the repos are and should be added to Software Management repository list to be able to upgrade one's (12.1 system, now running KDE 4.7) to KDE 4.8?

That old song again?

The man in the street has no interest in playing around with unsupported, untested KDE packages, risking to break his system.

That is for geeks and enthusiasts. And if you can't decipher the darn wiki page which has been mentioned and explained on this list a million times at least, then you should probably just stop playing with those repos yourself.

http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories

+1

An also the Monitor pages of the repos in OBS were also mentioned several times. Everybody can have a look what the current state is https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3ARelease%3A48 https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3ADistro%3AFactory

and if publishing is enabled or not https://build.opensuse.org/project/repositories?project=KDE%3ARelease%3A48 https://build.opensuse.org/project/repositories?project=KDE%3ADistro%3AFacto ry

Everybody who is not able to do this or does not want this should stay with the plain distribution IMHO.

That may well be anything but the "man on the street" does not work and researched around for hours to find out what repo it should not take more. If anything, looks "the man on the street" yet in the wiki .... usually not even that. One must not forget that with all this "the man of the street" not a developer, not a team member or is willing to learn more about the measure. Most of the users are people who simply want to use openSUSE only, but it still does not like new versions of KDE 4.8 are willing to forego. So if we want to use openSUSE, we need to do so because the users have fun and not frustrated switch to other distributors or community projects. We do not, we must not wonder if users openSUSE / KDE assess negative and prefer to turn to Ubuntu, Mint or another. Thanks for the attention ... ;-) -- °/° Grüße aus dem Schwabenland, °\° gewünscht & gesendet von Linuxsusefan, ^/^ openSUSE Member, ~ die_"SuS(i)E"_sei_mit_euch,_wo_immer_ihr_seid!

Am Sonntag, 29. Januar 2012, 16:14:59 schrieb phanisvara das:

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 15:35:05 +0530, Martin Schlander

wrote:

...

Søndag den 29. januar 2012 16:34:42 Basil Chupin skrev:

...

But what do they REALLY mean to the man in the street? SFA really.

Would it be presumptuous of me to ask the powers-to-be to please clearly announce when KDE 4.8 becomes available and announce in, say, opensuse-announce and even in this mail list but to also CLEARLY state what the repos are and should be added to Software Management repository list to be able to upgrade one's (12.1 system, now running KDE 4.7) to KDE 4.8?

That old song again?

The man in the street has no interest in playing around with unsupported, untested KDE packages, risking to break his system.

That is for geeks and enthusiasts. And if you can't decipher the darn wiki page which has been mentioned and explained on this list a million times at least, then you should probably just stop playing with those repos yourself.

+1

there's millions of warnings on the forums, which seem to be the prefered place for users with not so much experience & knowledge, to go for advice, NOT to use experimental repos, or any repos except the basic ones (non/OSS, update, packman).

this is open source, means the source and compiled builds are available to all. you don't have to lock away everything that isn't guaranteed to work perfectly. let those who enjoy fiddling around and testing new stuff use additional or alternative repos, and those who expect everything to work out of the box stick to the basic ones.

re. better explanation, that's open for anybody to add to the wikis. personally i'm quite happy with the oS KDE repos as they are and don't have any problems finding the correct ones. at the moment in don't have time to get into the technics and/or politics of wiki editing here, but i hope that at some point that will change.

So, we say that the users will soon be better to use these repos? How we do it then? Should I in German → Wiki → KDE repos: Release: 48 make a note: "Hands off, only to developers"? Or then I read in my blog: "openSUSE is great, but was published only with KDE The 12.1 Oh by the way, let's just stay away from KDE upstream repositories only for developers or enthusiasts.." -- °/° Grüße aus dem Schwabenland, °\° gewünscht & gesendet von Linuxsusefan, ^/^ openSUSE Member, ~ die_"SuS(i)E"_sei_mit_euch,_wo_immer_ihr_seid!

Am Sonntag, 29. Januar 2012, 11:53:56 schrieb C:

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:30, Christian Trippe wrote:

...

An also the Monitor pages of the repos in OBS were also mentioned several times. Everybody can have a look what the current state is https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3ARelease%3A48 https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3ADistro%3AFactor y

Ok, so I go to KDE Distro Factory (second link) and look... it says that building succeeded for 12.1 for both i586 and x86_64 (with the exception of a couple that are still building, but 99% are "succeeded")

So, now I go look at the repo contents here: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Distro:/Factory/openSUSE_12.1 /x86_64/ and.... the KDE version is... 4.7.4. This is the Factory repo as indicated by the Wiki that should be KDE4.8 for oS12.1

As you can see there are already the 4.8 packages in KDF in OBS. But the packages are still building which means it is not available yet, but there are still the old KDE 4.7 packages on download.opensuse.org. But publishing is enabled, which means as soon as all packages in this repo (for this distribution and this architecture) have finished they will be available. Until this happens you simply have to wait. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 16:25:05 +0530, Lisufas Linuxfreunde wrote:

So, we say that the users will soon be better to use these repos? How we do it then? Should I in German → Wiki → KDE repos: Release: 48 make a note: "Hands off, only to developers"? Or then I read in my blog: "openSUSE is great, but was published only with KDE The 12.1 Oh by the way, let's just stay away from KDE upstream repositories only for developers or enthusiasts.."

no, at this point you could say that those who want to try out KDE 4.8 should use http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Release:/48/... for their respective openSUSE release, adding the corresponding KDE/Etra and KDE/Unstable:/Playground if they're feeling really adventurous. this isn't going to work for people completely new to openSUSE and/or KDE, but it's not reasonable to expect bleeding-edge for realnewbies. either you learn your way out of being 'newbie,' or you forget about 'bleeding edge.' eventually there'll be re-spins of oS 12.x with KDE 4.8. that's when newbies get to try it out, too. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag, 29. Januar 2012, 12:20:34 schrieb Nico Kruber:

On Sunday 29 Jan 2012 12:00:43 Christian Trippe wrote:

...

Am Sonntag, 29. Januar 2012, 11:53:56 schrieb C:

...

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:30, Christian Trippe

wrote:

...

...

An also the Monitor pages of the repos in OBS were also mentioned several times. Everybody can have a look what the current state is https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3ARelease %3A48 https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3ADistro% 3AFactor y

Ok, so I go to KDE Distro Factory (second link) and look... it says that building succeeded for 12.1 for both i586 and x86_64 (with the exception of a couple that are still building, but 99% are "succeeded")

So, now I go look at the repo contents here: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Distro:/Factory/openS USE_12 .1 /x86_64/ and.... the KDE version is... 4.7.4. This is the Factory repo as indicated by the Wiki that should be KDE4.8 for oS12.1

As you can see there are already the 4.8 packages in KDF in OBS. But the packages are still building which means it is not available yet

maybe this is the problem - too low build priorities for KDF and/or KR48.

A while ago, openSUSE was among the first distributions which delivered binaries for a new KDE version - this is not the case anymore. KDE 4.7.4 already took weeks to get built completely in KDF and so it 4.8.0 now :( The day of the release everything seemed to have built completely, only publishing was disabled in order to wait for the release. This was enabled then but before everything was actually published, package changes were accepted/added to some basic package which meant that everything needed to be rebuild. (this is at least how it looked to me) Maybe we should wait until it is fully published to the mirrors before beginning to change packages, especially basic ones which need full re-builds.

Here I completly agree. Christian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun 29 Jan 2012 07:04:52 AM EST, Anton Aylward wrote:

Martin Schlander said the following on 01/29/2012 05:58 AM:

...

And the minority which does operate in the way you describe, just get new problems which are (at least) equally troublesome as the minor annoyance they tried to fix in the first place (see most of the traffic on this list or on IRC if you don't believe me).

While 100% accurate that's probably the most unhelpful comment I've seen on the list this month.

Of course any - and EVERY release and revision of any software is going to have its bugs and problems. We know that.

But the previous post in that part of the thread said:

...

...

- finds a problem with something in his current KD 4.7.x - googles for solution - finds "solved in KDE 4.8"

The user has a SPECIFIC problem with a SPECIFIC part of KDE. Not all of KDE, a SPECIFIC PART. It is that SPECIFIC part that is the annoyance and that SPECIFIC part gets fixed in the subsequent release. You can bet there's a lot of KDE the user doesn't use and doesn't care if new bugs emerge in that. He's only interested in the SPECIFIC problem he has with the SPECIFIC part that gets fixed. Any other bugs may be under his radar.

Perhaps not, perhaps it is as you say, that its a game of whack-a-mole and another part that is crucial to him has a new and critical bug or a previously less than critical bug becomes critical.

But so what? He's just been though that with 4.0...4.7

What he wants is this SPECIFIC problem fixed and fixed right now and its fixed in 4.8

And you know what? 4.8 is current in Fedora; I'm running Fedora and 4.8 on another machine and I'm delighted with it; the problems I have are with Firefox and Thunderbird, not with any party of KDE. KDE is getting better and better, the annoyances are being smoothed out. The guys are doing a fine job! Roll on 4.9!

I agree. In addition, please automatically add the newer available KDE repos to Yast. Without having to add it ourselves. Fedora has everything grouped together when the package manager is opened. And the present login manager has to go. openSUSE 12.1 has a slicker looking manager than the one provided with the 4.8 repository. Yes? Cheers! Roman ------------------------------------------------------------------ openSUSE Linux -- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://counter.li.org #179293 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun 29 Jan 2012 11:47:15 AM EST, Křištof Želechovski wrote:

Dnia niedziela, 29 stycznia 2012 11:40:26 Roman Bysh pisze:

...

In addition, please automatically add the newer available KDE repos to Yast. Without having to add it ourselves.

Community KDE repositories are unsupported and cannot be added to system repositories by a software update. Software updates only perform supported changes.

HTH, Chris

Yes I know. But as an idea in the future. Possibly, when the new Software Center arrives. As long as it's clearly stated. Roman ------------------------------------------------------------------ openSUSE Linux -- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://counter.li.org #179293 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Wed 01 Feb 2012 06:11:06 AM EST, Werner Flamme wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Roman Bysh [29.01.2012 17:40]:

...

In addition, please automatically add the newer available KDE repos to Yast. Without having to add it ourselves.

I would not want that. I prefer to wait one or two weeks to see the reaction of braver users before I change my repo :-) Moving from one KDE version to another is nothing you want to do just in-between, you really should know what you do.

...

Fedora has everything grouped together when the package manager is opened.

Yes, and here is openSUSE :-P Every distro invents its own wheel.

You're right about waiting another 2 weeks about 4.8. Cheers! Roman - ------------------------------------------------------------------ openSUSE Linux -- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://counter.li.org #179293 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iF4EAREIAAYFAk8pdOsACgkQQwhccfmLFXkWHQD7BLyXHFjQQxj4a6FsvNoqmINF hXD4HnZl0ffOLlrJV0kA/i2lVIqYYBgkeE9IoFUp9KlOFuXzHISMwDQkv54fpvsj =60aH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org