On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:48, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012/06/17 12:05 (GMT+0200) todd rme composed:

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Felix Miata wrote:

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...how is it that I can do a minimal install, set solver.onlyRequires=true ... Shouldn't kwin be required by at least one of the *base* kde4 packages?

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Maybe if kwin was instead named kdebase4-kwin its absence might be noticed prior to starting X (instead of a dep?)?

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Shouldn't whatever is in kwin be a part of kdebase4-workspace?

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Probably too late for 12.2, but what about having a windowmanager provides, and have KDE require some window manager? Then all the window managers could provide that.

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For 12.2, probably having a "suggests" or "recommends" for kwin might work.

How?

IMHO kdebase4-workspace would be best for "recommend" kwin. The kdebase4 package can also be used for running kde-apps under gnome, the kdebase4-workspace implies the "whole" experience. Adding a "Provides" "Windowmanager" to kwin / openbox / wmaker / what-ever-is-used-by-gnome can be done even now without any harm to the development / polishing of 12.2, but adding the correspondenting "Require" "Windowmanager" to the Desktop-Environment packages (here kdebase4-workspace) is the 'critical' and error-prone part. -- Yamaban -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 2:00 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012/06/18 01:23 (GMT+0200) Yamaban composed:

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 Felix Miata wrote:

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 set solver.onlyRequires=true

          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ...

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 How?

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IMHO kdebase4-workspace would be best for "recommend" kwin.

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The kdebase4 package can also be used for running kde-apps under gnome, the kdebase4-workspace implies the "whole" experience.

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Adding a "Provides" "Windowmanager" to kwin / openbox / wmaker / what-ever-is-used-by-gnome can be done even now without any harm to the development / polishing of 12.2, but adding the correspondenting "Require" "Windowmanager" to the Desktop-Environment packages (here kdebase4-workspace) is the 'critical' and error-prone part.

IOW, not possible? The subject is about requires, not recommends or suggests.

The problem is that nothing in KDE requires kwin. You could use compiz, openbox, or any other window manager you want instead of kwin. So in my opinion, and seemingly the opinion of at least several others, it is simply incorrect to require kwin. So that leaves 4 options as I see it: 1. Keep things as they are. I don't think this is a very good approach 2. Have kdebase4-workspace recommend kwin. That way users by default install it, but can opt not to. 3. Have kdebase4-workspace suggest kwin. I am not sure YaST2 even supports suggests for packages, so this may not help. 4. Have kdebase4-workspace require some window manager, but don't specify which one. This is probably not possible until the next release. So I would say doing 2 is the best option for 12.2, and we can work on 4 for the release after. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday 18 Jun 2012 11:09:29 Yamaban wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:58, todd rme wrote:

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On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 2:00 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

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On 2012/06/18 01:23 (GMT+0200) Yamaban composed:

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Felix Miata wrote: > set solver.onlyRequires=true

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ...

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How?

IMHO kdebase4-workspace would be best for "recommend" kwin.

The kdebase4 package can also be used for running kde-apps under gnome, the kdebase4-workspace implies the "whole" experience.

Adding a "Provides" "Windowmanager" to kwin / openbox / wmaker / what-ever-is-used-by-gnome can be done even now without any harm to the development / polishing of 12.2, but adding the correspondenting "Require" "Windowmanager" to the Desktop-Environment packages (here kdebase4-workspace) is the 'critical' and error-prone part.

IOW, not possible? The subject is about requires, not recommends or suggests.

The problem is that nothing in KDE requires kwin. You could use compiz, openbox, or any other window manager you want instead of kwin. So in my opinion, and seemingly the opinion of at least several others, it is simply incorrect to require kwin.

So that leaves 4 options as I see it:

1. Keep things as they are. I don't think this is a very good approach 2. Have kdebase4-workspace recommend kwin. That way users by default install it, but can opt not to. 3. Have kdebase4-workspace suggest kwin. I am not sure YaST2 even supports suggests for packages, so this may not help. 4. Have kdebase4-workspace require some window manager, but don't specify which one. This is probably not possible until the next release.

So I would say doing 2 is the best option for 12.2, and we can work on 4 for the release after.

-Todd

Exactly.

Only that the needed "Provides: windowmanager" can be implemented now (prior 12.2 release) without hurting anybody and reducing the work later, meaning if a window-manager - package (compiz, openbox, kwin, etc) has to re-build anyway before Goldmaster the "Provides: windowmanager" line should be added to the spec now, with no extra cost and risk.

BTW: How should that "provides" be written (upper/lowercase, with or without [_-]) ? Are there existing lines in Fedora already? No sense in deciding for "WindowManager" when "windowmanager" is already in use by an other distro just for the need, every little bit of unification / harmonics helps.

It's already present for 4 years already - look at kdebase4-workspace.spec, line 224, Provides: windowmanager in the kwin subpackage. What I don't know is which package or package list should Requires: windowmanager. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org