[opensuse-kde] New ISO scheme.
Considering the problems we have had in the past with our various disk images, I propose the following scheme. One DVD size .iso with a live image. Mandriva does this, and it seems sensible. In regards to being able to use a Gnome or KDE live environment, we could make it selectable, after the fashion of CentOS. The live environments would not be persistent, seeing as we have had alot of issues with that... and it would seem more sensible that if a user wants a persistent USB they should just use susestudio which would give them greater control anyway. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/01/12 10:25, Roger Luedecke wrote:
Considering the problems we have had in the past with our various disk images, I propose the following scheme.
One DVD size .iso with a live image. Mandriva does this, and it seems sensible. In regards to being able to use a Gnome or KDE live environment, we could make it selectable, after the fashion of CentOS. The live environments would not be persistent, seeing as we have had alot of issues with that... and it would seem more sensible that if a user wants a persistent USB they should just use susestudio which would give them greater control anyway.
You would like to avoid any hassles with disc images? OK, why not come up with a scheme whereby local User Groups will mail out to you on request and for free a copy of such a doo-dangled DVD? It takes me 1 1/2 hours to download a LIVE CD disc and around 10 1/2+ hours to download a DVD. You want me to spend 10 1/2 hours downloading a DVD only to find that the darn LIVE copy of openSUSE won't even boot (as was the case with the CDs of 12.1)? Back to the drawing board, Roger....... :-) . BC -- It is easy to convince people of something, but hard to keep them convinced. Niccolo Machiavelli -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2012-01-12 at 16:11 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 12/01/12 10:25, Roger Luedecke wrote:
Considering the problems we have had in the past with our various disk images, I propose the following scheme.
One DVD size .iso with a live image. Mandriva does this, and it seems sensible. In regards to being able to use a Gnome or KDE live environment, we could make it selectable, after the fashion of CentOS. The live environments would not be persistent, seeing as we have had alot of issues with that... and it would seem more sensible that if a user wants a persistent USB they should just use susestudio which would give them greater control anyway.
You would like to avoid any hassles with disc images?
OK, why not come up with a scheme whereby local User Groups will mail out to you on request and for free a copy of such a doo-dangled DVD?
It takes me 1 1/2 hours to download a LIVE CD disc and around 10 1/2+ hours to download a DVD. You want me to spend 10 1/2 hours downloading a DVD only to find that the darn LIVE copy of openSUSE won't even boot (as was the case with the CDs of 12.1)?
Well that was catty. And no. The normal install would be available along with the Live boot option same as ever. From what I understand the problems with the live images have come from the attempt to make them persistent. Removing that behavior should restabilize them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/01/12 16:57, Roger Luedecke wrote:
On Thu, 2012-01-12 at 16:11 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 12/01/12 10:25, Roger Luedecke wrote:
Considering the problems we have had in the past with our various disk images, I propose the following scheme.
One DVD size .iso with a live image. Mandriva does this, and it seems sensible. In regards to being able to use a Gnome or KDE live environment, we could make it selectable, after the fashion of CentOS. The live environments would not be persistent, seeing as we have had alot of issues with that... and it would seem more sensible that if a user wants a persistent USB they should just use susestudio which would give them greater control anyway. You would like to avoid any hassles with disc images?
OK, why not come up with a scheme whereby local User Groups will mail out to you on request and for free a copy of such a doo-dangled DVD?
It takes me 1 1/2 hours to download a LIVE CD disc and around 10 1/2+ hours to download a DVD. You want me to spend 10 1/2 hours downloading a DVD only to find that the darn LIVE copy of openSUSE won't even boot (as was the case with the CDs of 12.1)?
Well that was catty.
If I wanted to hit you with my handbag you would know about it :-) .
And no. The normal install would be available along with the Live boot option same as ever. From what I understand the problems with the live images have come from the attempt to make them persistent. Removing that behavior should restabilize them.
I am not concerned about Live images as I am about using DVDs which, from the way I read your post, will contain both KDE and GNOME live with the option to also install thus making the DVD much bigger than the standard CD. It's bad enough having to download a complete CD to test a Live version of the new oS let alone having to download a DVD which may not even boot. However, had you suggested that following the first release of a Live CD subsequent updates would come in the form of DELTA files then this would sound like the step in the right direction. BC -- It is easy to convince people of something, but hard to keep them convinced. Niccolo Machiavelli -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2012-01-12 at 19:13 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
However, had you suggested that following the first release of a Live CD subsequent updates would come in the form of DELTA files then this would sound like the step in the right direction. Do you mean as in updating the iso with a delta? I think that should be done as well. The only disadvantage there is with people who DL via bittorrent.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 12.01.2012 11:39, Roger Luedecke wrote:
On Thu, 2012-01-12 at 19:13 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
However, had you suggested that following the first release of a Live CD subsequent updates would come in the form of DELTA files then this would sound like the step in the right direction. Do you mean as in updating the iso with a delta? I think that should be done as well. The only disadvantage there is with people who DL via bittorrent.
The deltas are almost as large as the original DVD due to compression - unless of course you implement a format specific / compression agnostic delta tool. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/01/12 21:39, Roger Luedecke wrote:
On Thu, 2012-01-12 at 19:13 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
However, had you suggested that following the first release of a Live CD subsequent updates would come in the form of DELTA files then this would sound like the step in the right direction. Do you mean as in updating the iso with a delta? I think that should be done as well. The only disadvantage there is with people who DL via bittorrent.
I suspect that people who are able to use bittorrent also have the broadband to download a full DVD in minutes and not hours so I don't really care about them :-) . But someone like moi, and others in the same situation as moi, I care about very much :-) . And if DELTAs were used even the bittorrentals would switch over - trust me. BC -- It is easy to convince people of something, but hard to keep them convinced. Niccolo Machiavelli -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
If, and only *if* we'll introduce a new iso scheme, then i'd suggest the following: * DVD with 4GB of software *and* enabled additional repos * both KDE and GNOME Live CDs as they are now * Net ISO as it is atm * minimal Installation System, jeOS. Plus additional Software and language CDs. If there still need for costumization, then will SUSE studio be your best friend. kind regards, --kdl -- Kim Leyendecker sent from smartphone sorry for my briefity -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2012-01-12 at 11:59 +0100, Kim Leyendecker wrote:
If, and only *if* we'll introduce a new iso scheme, then i'd suggest the following:
* DVD with 4GB of software *and* enabled additional repos We basically do that. Additional repos are likely to introduce conflicts or licensing issues. * both KDE and GNOME Live CDs as they are now Basically agreed. CentOS uses a hybrid where you choose the desktop from GDM. * Net ISO as it is atm No reason to screw with that. * minimal Installation System, jeOS. That is achievable from the normal DVD installer. Essentially, its already a feature.
Plus additional Software and language CDs. Thankfully YaST is able to handle additional CD media for installing.
If there still need for costumization, then will SUSE studio be your best friend.
kind regards,
--kdl -- Kim Leyendecker sent from smartphone sorry for my briefity
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
* Net ISO as it is atm No reason to screw with that.
Hi, Would be possible for the net ISO to include the installation part (the 6 parts it download after initiate the installation process)? Right now you download a ~150MB ISO, then to start the installation the net ISO download another ~100MB (IIRC), which makes more viable to download the LiveCD. Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 11 Jan 2012 15:25:42 Roger Luedecke wrote:
Considering the problems we have had in the past with our various disk images, I propose the following scheme.
What problems?
One DVD size .iso with a live image. Mandriva does this, and it seems sensible. In regards to being able to use a Gnome or KDE live environment, we could make it selectable, after the fashion of CentOS. The live environments would not be persistent, seeing as we have had alot of issues with that... and it would seem more sensible that if a user wants a persistent USB they should just use susestudio which would give them greater control anyway.
What problems with persistent images? I am not aware of widespread issues with them. There's a large gap between needing a persistent Live image and needing a completely custom build, so I disagree with your conclusion. The difference between a DVD installation image and a Live image is that the DVD contains a bootable installer system image and a set of packages to install to the disk, whereas the Live image is a bootable system image that contains an installer program. Installation in this case copies the bootable image from the Live media to the hard disk, without the scope to install only the needed packages or customise the installation up front. So there are tradeoffs in including a bootable general purpose system image on a given medium. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Boosters, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> wrote:
Considering the problems we have had in the past with our various disk images, I propose the following scheme.
One DVD size .iso with a live image. Mandriva does this, and it seems sensible. In regards to being able to use a Gnome or KDE live environment, we could make it selectable, after the fashion of CentOS. The live environments would not be persistent, seeing as we have had alot of issues with that... and it would seem more sensible that if a user wants a persistent USB they should just use susestudio which would give them greater control anyway.
Is this in addition to or instead of the livecd, and in addition to, instead of, or merged with the DVD installer? -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2012-01-12 at 09:45 +0100, todd rme wrote:
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> wrote:
Considering the problems we have had in the past with our various disk images, I propose the following scheme.
One DVD size .iso with a live image. Mandriva does this, and it seems sensible. In regards to being able to use a Gnome or KDE live environment, we could make it selectable, after the fashion of CentOS. The live environments would not be persistent, seeing as we have had alot of issues with that... and it would seem more sensible that if a user wants a persistent USB they should just use susestudio which would give them greater control anyway.
Is this in addition to or instead of the livecd, and in addition to, instead of, or merged with the DVD installer?
-Todd Currently we have to maintain 3 .iso. 11.4 saw that discrepancies can sneak through, most notable case being Live had the nm-plasmoid and DVD installed KNetworkManager. One of several inconsistencies I noticed (I only recently got into a habit of trying to be diligent with bug reporting). If we could consolidate the whole mess into one .iso then we would obviously have only one .iso to maintain. At least then if there is a "discrepancy" it wouldn't be obvious :p.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Basil Chupin -
Kim Leyendecker -
Luiz Fernando Ranghetti -
Roger Luedecke -
Stephan Kulow -
todd rme -
Will Stephenson