RE: Re: [opensuse-kde] KDE Neon and opensuse
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sdm Gesendet: Sa. 13.02.2016 19:30 An: opensuse-kde@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-kde] KDE Neon and opensuse
On 02/13/2016 10:17 AM, Luca Beltrame wrote:
Sorry, but as people from KDE helped me to prevent disrespect towards our distribution, there's no need to do the reverse.
It's not disrespect, it's the truth. Yet another fork: more confusion, less resources going to fixing the openSUSE default distribution. We don't need that for our users, and new users. I'm also not going to stop either, Neon is a turd and it will fail. Plain and simple. If you don't like me saying that, too bad. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht Ende-----
Could you refrain on stepping up as "we". You are you. Your opinion has been heard. Whether one has the same opinion or not will not be influenced and success or failure, time will tell. Please do not use offensive and aggressive language. It does not add to your point. Some points you made are surely valuable, but do in my experience apply to some developer, by no means to all. Please continue to post about this, nobody wants to censor but please post only if you have any valuable new point to make. Thank you. --- Mail & Cloud Made in Germany mit 3 GB Speicher! https://email.freenet.de/mail/Uebersicht?epid=e9900000450 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
[ Comments below, in-line ] On 02/13/2016 01:38 PM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
Could you refrain on stepping up as "we". You are you.
+1. -- Pablo Sanchez - Blueoak Database Engineering, Inc Ph: 819.459.1926 Blog: http://pablo-blog.blueoakdb.com iNum: 883.5100.0990.1054 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/13/2016 10:38 AM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sdm Gesendet: Sa. 13.02.2016 19:30 An: opensuse-kde@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-kde] KDE Neon and opensuse
Sorry, but as people from KDE helped me to prevent disrespect towards our distribution, there's no need to do the reverse. It's not disrespect, it's the truth. Yet another fork: more confusion, less resources going to fixing the openSUSE default distribution. We don't need that for our users, and new users. I'm also not going to stop either, Neon is a turd and it will fail. Plain and simple. If you don't
On 02/13/2016 10:17 AM, Luca Beltrame wrote: like me saying that, too bad. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht Ende----- Could you refrain on stepping up as "we". You are you. Your opinion has been heard. Whether one has the same opinion or not will not be influenced and success or failure, time will tell. Please do not use offensive and aggressive language. It does not add to your point. Some points you made are surely valuable, but do in my experience apply to some developer, by no means to all. Please continue to post about this, nobody wants to censor but please post only if you have any valuable new point to make. Thank you.
--- Mail & Cloud Made in Germany mit 3 GB Speicher! https://email.freenet.de/mail/Uebersicht?epid=e9900000450
No, I will continue to post as I please. Do not tell me what to do; you are not the ruler of this forum -- and you have no right to step in and label my language as offensive: shame on you. That is just your politically correct feeling, and you are free to have that view. Have a nice day. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/13/2016 10:38 AM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sdm Gesendet: Sa. 13.02.2016 19:30 An: opensuse-kde@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-kde] KDE Neon and opensuse
Sorry, but as people from KDE helped me to prevent disrespect towards our distribution, there's no need to do the reverse. It's not disrespect, it's the truth. Yet another fork: more confusion, less resources going to fixing the openSUSE default distribution. We don't need that for our users, and new users. I'm also not going to stop either, Neon is a turd and it will fail. Plain and simple. If you don't
On 02/13/2016 10:17 AM, Luca Beltrame wrote: like me saying that, too bad. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht Ende----- Could you refrain on stepping up as "we". You are you. Your opinion has been heard. Whether one has the same opinion or not will not be influenced and success or failure, time will tell. Please do not use offensive and aggressive language. It does not add to your point. Some points you made are surely valuable, but do in my experience apply to some developer, by no means to all. Please continue to post about this, nobody wants to censor but please post only if you have any valuable new point to make. Thank you.
--- Mail & Cloud Made in Germany mit 3 GB Speicher! https://email.freenet.de/mail/Uebersicht?epid=e9900000450
There is a big majority that also agrees with me, you can rest assured of that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 13 February 2016 at 19:45, sdm
On 02/13/2016 10:38 AM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sdm Gesendet: Sa. 13.02.2016 19:30 An: opensuse-kde@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-kde] KDE Neon and opensuse
On 02/13/2016 10:17 AM, Luca Beltrame wrote:
Sorry, but as people from KDE helped me to prevent disrespect towards our distribution, there's no need to do the reverse.
It's not disrespect, it's the truth. Yet another fork: more confusion, less resources going to fixing the openSUSE default distribution. We don't need that for our users, and new users. I'm also not going to stop either, Neon is a turd and it will fail. Plain and simple. If you don't like me saying that, too bad. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht Ende-----
Could you refrain on stepping up as "we". You are you. Your opinion has been heard. Whether one has the same opinion or not will not be influenced and success or failure, time will tell. Please do not use offensive and aggressive language. It does not add to your point. Some points you made are surely valuable, but do in my experience apply to some developer, by no means to all. Please continue to post about this, nobody wants to censor but please post only if you have any valuable new point to make. Thank you.
--- Mail & Cloud Made in Germany mit 3 GB Speicher! https://email.freenet.de/mail/Uebersicht?epid=e9900000450
No, I will continue to post as I please. Do not tell me what to do; you are not the ruler of this forum -- and you have no right to step in and label my language as offensive: shame on you. That is just your politically correct feeling, and you are free to have that view. Have a nice day.
Please can you follow the advice given to you by stakanov and Luca Please tone down your language and stop referring to yourself as 'we'. You do not speak for the openSUSE KDE Team, nor the openSUSE Project as a whole You are entitled to your opinion but please ensure that you refer to it as your own, while simultaneously respecting the opinions of others and the work they do for your, our, and everyones collective benefit Kind Regards, Richard Brown openSUSE Chairman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/13/2016 10:38 AM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
Could you refrain on stepping up as "we". You are you. Your opinion has been heard. Whether one has the same opinion or not will not be influenced and success or failure, time will tell. Please do not use offensive and aggressive language. It does not add to your point. Some points you made are surely valuable, but do in my experience apply to some developer, by no means to all. Please continue to post about this, nobody wants to censor but please post only if you have any valuable new point to make. Thank you.
There is a big majority that also agrees with me, you can rest assured of that. So far no one has posted to say they agree with your little conspiracy
On 13/02/16 12:45 PM, sdm wrote: theory, but a lot of people have posted to say they do not. Where are all these supporters you claim to have? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On samedi, 13 février 2016 20.24:32 h CET Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 02/13/2016 10:38 AM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
Could you refrain on stepping up as "we". You are you. Your opinion has been heard. Whether one has the same opinion or not will not be influenced and success or failure, time will tell. Please do not use offensive and aggressive language. It does not add to your point. Some points you made are surely valuable, but do in my experience apply to some developer, by no means to all. Please continue to post about this, nobody wants to censor but please post only if you have any valuable new point to make. Thank you.
There is a big majority that also agrees with me, you can rest assured of that. So far no one has posted to say they agree with your little conspiracy
On 13/02/16 12:45 PM, sdm wrote: theory, but a lot of people have posted to say they do not. Where are all these supporters you claim to have?
I found them in /dev/null hopefully none of them can get out of it :-))) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Dne So 13. února 2016 10:45:08, sdm napsal(a):
On 02/13/2016 10:38 AM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sdm Gesendet: Sa. 13.02.2016 19:30 An: opensuse-kde@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-kde] KDE Neon and opensuse
On 02/13/2016 10:17 AM, Luca Beltrame wrote:
Sorry, but as people from KDE helped me to prevent disrespect towards our distribution, there's no need to do the reverse.
It's not disrespect, it's the truth. Yet another fork: more confusion, less resources going to fixing the openSUSE default distribution. We don't need that for our users, and new users. I'm also not going to stop either, Neon is a turd and it will fail. Plain and simple. If you don't like me saying that, too bad.
Could you refrain on stepping up as "we". You are you. Your opinion has been heard. Whether one has the same opinion or not will not be influenced and success or failure, time will tell. Please do not use offensive and aggressive language. It does not add to your point. Some points you made are surely valuable, but do in my experience apply to some developer, by no means to all. Please continue to post about this, nobody wants to censor but please post only if you have any valuable new point to make. Thank you.
No, I will continue to post as I please. Do not tell me what to do; you are not the ruler of this forum -- and you have no right to step in and label my language as offensive: shame on you. That is just your politically correct feeling, and you are free to have that view. Have a nice day.
The point of ML is constructive debate. Your aggressive attacks do not help in this. So, please, keep with facts. Luca and another people do great work in KDE in openSUSE and they surely know by orders of magnitude more about it than You, so, please, listen what they say. You are not forced to use KDE/openSUSE. If You are willing to help, good, but this doesn't help... -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux https://www.opensuse.org/ https://trapa.cz/
On 02/14/2016 04:18 AM, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
On 02/13/2016 10:38 AM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sdm Gesendet: Sa. 13.02.2016 19:30 An: opensuse-kde@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-kde] KDE Neon and opensuse
Sorry, but as people from KDE helped me to prevent disrespect towards our distribution, there's no need to do the reverse. It's not disrespect, it's the truth. Yet another fork: more confusion, less resources going to fixing the openSUSE default distribution. We don't need that for our users, and new users. I'm also not going to stop either, Neon is a turd and it will fail. Plain and simple. If you don't
On 02/13/2016 10:17 AM, Luca Beltrame wrote: like me saying that, too bad. Could you refrain on stepping up as "we". You are you. Your opinion has been heard. Whether one has the same opinion or not will not be influenced and success or failure, time will tell. Please do not use offensive and aggressive language. It does not add to your point. Some points you made are surely valuable, but do in my experience apply to some developer, by no means to all. Please continue to post about this, nobody wants to censor but please post only if you have any valuable new point to make. Thank you.
No, I will continue to post as I please. Do not tell me what to do; you are not the ruler of this forum -- and you have no right to step in and label my language as offensive: shame on you. That is just your politically correct feeling, and you are free to have that view. Have a nice day. The point of ML is constructive debate. Your aggressive attacks do not help in
Dne So 13. února 2016 10:45:08, sdm napsal(a): this. So, please, keep with facts. Luca and another people do great work in KDE in openSUSE and they surely know by orders of magnitude more about it than You, so, please, listen what they say. You are not forced to use KDE/openSUSE. If You are willing to help, good, but this doesn't help...
That's funny, you think my "attacks" are "aggressive". Your email really just served no purpose except making accusations towards me, such as "they surely know by orders of magnitude more about it than you"; that is an attack on me (by your own definition). Have I personally attacked you? No, I have no, so maybe you should take a good long look in the mirror today and tell yourself to think before you write inaccurate suppositions in your ill-thought-out emails. If you review this thread, you'll see a previous KDE contributor giving his farewell message so I'm not the only person speaking out against the Neon idea. Did you miss the Network World article by Bryan Lunduke? He came out swinging against the idea, and is he not employed by SUSE? I have no idea who you are, and you have zero rights to judge me or to postulate what I do or do not know; it actually just shows the buddy circle going around on this list, of the 10 or so people that bother to post here. Do you really think that with 10 people posting here you are going to get much traffic about KDE; a completely broken DE that is nothing more than an ad-hoc programming experiment that barely anybody getting any real day-to-day business work done uses? No. They all use Windows or OSX and for good reason. The state of plasmashell and the rest of the bits surrounding it are in a completely pathetic state, and the KDE team has totally failed the user base. Just as KDE 4 got stable you people pulled out the rug from the project and gave the fragmented user base a just about unusable desktop that crashed constantly, had missing features, and overall was much worse than its predecessor. That is why the current KDE team, whatever that may be needs a complete colonic and reorganization. Like I said, there are people who are on my side and if you are going to bury your head in the sand and be ignorant about it, then KDE is going to continue down the same path and Linux will stay at 1% desktop adoption. There's a reason why people get paid to program. There's incentive to make it functional and there are repercussions for your software company if the program doesn't work properly. Here with KDE, you have a loose-knit bunch of people donating their free time in attempts to clobber something together that somewhat works, but if it doesn't there are zero repercussions. And as I said, right when KDE started finally getting stable the ad-hoc KDE "team" scrapped it and started a whole new project on Qt5 that was akin to reinventing the wheel. Talk about a completely stupid decision that just made all the users frustrated, and put an extra load on all the people trying to help users in the community from problems such as their system not booting, graphics artifacts, etc. There have been numerous reports about people who had 0 problems with KDE 4, but they can't run Plasma 5. How exactly is Leap stable when there are so many people who can't run it? The point here is that it's not stable, and anybody who says it is is lying. Excuse me for speaking out against the religion. Anyway I have better things to do than communicate with a bunch of out-of-touch-with-reality people with Stockholm syndrome and who fail to escape their own tunnel vision. You can thump your chests all day long about how freedom means this and that, but that's all pointless when your desktop environment sucks, bug reports aren't answered, features are stripped away, and now you have a new pact within the KDE team that isn't focusing any longer on being desktop-agnostic. There are other areas on the internet where many are concerned about the things I’ve written; this list where 10 people post isn't any way to gauge anything. My opinion is my own, and if you don't agree with it, well guess what? Too bad. I'm not changing, nor am I changing my opinion. Also please understand what an attack is and is not. People are so quick to point fingers "Oh my god, I'm being attacked!" when in actuality, there's just a person with a different point of view than their own. It's easy to play the victim card in order to try to get attention from your other buddies on the openSUSE board. sdm -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 14/02/16 06:44 AM, sdm wrote:
On 02/14/2016 04:18 AM, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
On 02/13/2016 10:38 AM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sdm Gesendet: Sa. 13.02.2016 19:30 An: opensuse-kde@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-kde] KDE Neon and opensuse
Sorry, but as people from KDE helped me to prevent disrespect towards our distribution, there's no need to do the reverse. It's not disrespect, it's the truth. Yet another fork: more confusion, less resources going to fixing the openSUSE default distribution. We don't need that for our users, and new users. I'm also not going to stop either, Neon is a turd and it will fail. Plain and simple. If you don't
On 02/13/2016 10:17 AM, Luca Beltrame wrote: like me saying that, too bad. Could you refrain on stepping up as "we". You are you. Your opinion has been heard. Whether one has the same opinion or not will not be influenced and success or failure, time will tell. Please do not use offensive and aggressive language. It does not add to your point. Some points you made are surely valuable, but do in my experience apply to some developer, by no means to all. Please continue to post about this, nobody wants to censor but please post only if you have any valuable new point to make. Thank you.
No, I will continue to post as I please. Do not tell me what to do; you are not the ruler of this forum -- and you have no right to step in and label my language as offensive: shame on you. That is just your politically correct feeling, and you are free to have that view. Have a nice day. The point of ML is constructive debate. Your aggressive attacks do not help in
Dne So 13. února 2016 10:45:08, sdm napsal(a): this. So, please, keep with facts. Luca and another people do great work in KDE in openSUSE and they surely know by orders of magnitude more about it than You, so, please, listen what they say. You are not forced to use KDE/openSUSE. If You are willing to help, good, but this doesn't help...
That's funny, you think my "attacks" are "aggressive". Your email really just served no purpose except making accusations towards me, such as "they surely know by orders of magnitude more about it than you"; that is an attack on me (by your own definition). Have I personally attacked you? No, I have no, so maybe you should take a good long look in the mirror today and tell yourself to think before you write inaccurate suppositions in your ill-thought-out emails. If you review this thread, you'll see a previous KDE contributor giving his farewell message so I'm not the only person speaking out against the Neon idea. Did you miss the Network World article by Bryan Lunduke? He came out swinging against the idea, and is he not employed by SUSE?
I have no idea who you are, and you have zero rights to judge me or to postulate what I do or do not know; it actually just shows the buddy circle going around on this list, of the 10 or so people that bother to post here. Do you really think that with 10 people posting here you are going to get much traffic about KDE; a completely broken DE that is nothing more than an ad-hoc programming experiment that barely anybody getting any real day-to-day business work done uses? No. They all use Windows or OSX and for good reason. The state of plasmashell and the rest of the bits surrounding it are in a completely pathetic state, and the KDE team has totally failed the user base. Just as KDE 4 got stable you people pulled out the rug from the project and gave the fragmented user base a just about unusable desktop that crashed constantly, had missing features, and overall was much worse than its predecessor. That is why the current KDE team, whatever that may be needs a complete colonic and reorganization. Like I said, there are people who are on my side and if you are going to bury your head in the sand and be ignorant about it, then KDE is going to continue down the same path and Linux will stay at 1% desktop adoption. There's a reason why people get paid to program. There's incentive to make it functional and there are repercussions for your software company if the program doesn't work properly. Here with KDE, you have a loose-knit bunch of people donating their free time in attempts to clobber something together that somewhat works, but if it doesn't there are zero repercussions. And as I said, right when KDE started finally getting stable the ad-hoc KDE "team" scrapped it and started a whole new project on Qt5 that was akin to reinventing the wheel. Talk about a completely stupid decision that just made all the users frustrated, and put an extra load on all the people trying to help users in the community from problems such as their system not booting, graphics artifacts, etc. There have been numerous reports about people who had 0 problems with KDE 4, but they can't run Plasma 5. How exactly is Leap stable when there are so many people who can't run it? The point here is that it's not stable, and anybody who says it is is lying. Excuse me for speaking out against the religion.
Anyway I have better things to do than communicate with a bunch of out-of-touch-with-reality people with Stockholm syndrome and who fail to escape their own tunnel vision. You can thump your chests all day long about how freedom means this and that, but that's all pointless when your desktop environment sucks, bug reports aren't answered, features are stripped away, and now you have a new pact within the KDE team that isn't focusing any longer on being desktop-agnostic. There are other areas on the internet where many are concerned about the things I’ve written; this list where 10 people post isn't any way to gauge anything.
My opinion is my own, and if you don't agree with it, well guess what? Too bad. I'm not changing, nor am I changing my opinion. Also please understand what an attack is and is not. People are so quick to point fingers "Oh my god, I'm being attacked!" when in actuality, there's just a person with a different point of view than their own. It's easy to play the victim card in order to try to get attention from your other buddies on the openSUSE board.
sdm
I was going to reply to what you posted, but then I thought, "My god, what's the point??!!" You are being judged the only way we have to judge you, on the basis of what you post here. So far, you have been found wanting. Any accusations levelled against you are wholly justified, since you have contributed **nothing** to this thread except to attack, attack some more, and accuse. If you have better things to do than to communicate with the people here, does this mean we will be spared your diatribe from now on? Please, say "Yes." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 14/02/16 02:24 AM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:
On samedi, 13 février 2016 20.24:32 h CET Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 13/02/16 12:45 PM, sdm wrote:
There is a big majority that also agrees with me, you can rest assured of that.
So far no one has posted to say they agree with your little conspiracy theory, but a lot of people have posted to say they do not. Where are all these supporters you claim to have? I found them in /dev/null hopefully none of them can get out of it :-)))
I don't know about that; I have always found /dev/zero to be a good source of nulls. But... a null by any other name is still a null ;) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On dimanche, 14 février 2016 07.35:10 h CET Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 14/02/16 02:24 AM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:
On samedi, 13 février 2016 20.24:32 h CET Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 13/02/16 12:45 PM, sdm wrote:
There is a big majority that also agrees with me, you can rest assured of that.
So far no one has posted to say they agree with your little conspiracy theory, but a lot of people have posted to say they do not. Where are all these supporters you claim to have? I found them in /dev/null hopefully none of them can get out of it :-)))
I don't know about that; I have always found /dev/zero to be a good source of nulls. But... a null by any other name is still a null ;)
Well I would say NULL is undefined by default you don't know what you get from there. and zero is well defined to be the exact middle of -1,1 :-) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Bruno Friedmann -
Darryl Gregorash -
Pablo Sanchez -
Richard Brown -
sdm -
stakanov＠freenet.de -
Vojtěch Zeisek