Re: [opensuse-kde] Packages missing in KDE:Unstable:SC
Dear Todd, Apper could be accepted into KDE:Unstable:SC, but all the other packages will not be accepted. As you indicated yourself already the purpose of KDF and KUSC are totally different. Long discussions were held to agree on the purpose of each. KDE:Distro:Factory is the devel repo for all KDE related packages that are also in the standard openSUSE distribution.
I compiled a list of packages that are present in KDE:Distro:Factory but are absent in KDE:Unstable:SC. Some of these are probably intentional since the goals of the two projects are not exactly the same, but others I think should probably be present in KDE:Unstable:SC.
KDE:Unstable:SC has as sole purpose to supply the standard KDE Desktop based on the upcoming KDE release and required libraries (if the current Factory version is too low). This means that packages like Amarok, Kaffeine, Clementine, decibel and all the others that you mentioned will not be provided. The correct usage is to have the standard openSUSE version and then to have KDE:Unstable:SC updating the standard KDE Desktop packages. This means that in this configuration Amarok will be installed from the standard openSUSE version. KDE:Unstable:Playground has absolutely nothing to do with KDE:Unstable:SC. KDE:Unstable:Playground contains community maintained packages with unreleased tarballs. These tarballs could be git/svn snapshots, alpha/beta releases, etc. Everything that you do not really want to push to the standard user. Therefore the prefix KDE:Unstable was chosen for this repo.
First is the list of packages that are available in KDE:Distro:Factory but are not available in KDE:Unstable:SC, KDE:Unstable:Playground, or KDE:Extra (in other words there is no installable version of this for KDE:Unstable:SC):
In your comparision you should take into account the main distro repository which contains most of these packages namely openSUSE:12.1, openSUSE:11.4, openSUSE:Factory, etc.
Next is for packages that are available in KDE:Distro:Factory and KDE:Unstable:Playground but not KDE:Unstable:SC (so users of KDE:Unstable:SC must install an unstable version). I am unclear
Why should they install an unstable version? They should take the standard version that is provided through the main openSUSE repository.
whether this is intentional or not, since some non-KDE SC packages, like digikam, have links to the stable KDE:Distro:Factory version in KDE:Unstable:SC, while others, like amarok and rekonq, do not.
Digikam and kipi-plugins are there because of historical reasons. Digikam and kipi-plugins were initially build on top of libraries that were provided through the kdegraphics package. This changed recently when KDE moved to git and these specific libraries were split out from kdegraphics. We didn't had the time yet to review the new situation correct to see if we should remove packages from KUSC.
It is my opinion that stable versions of non-KDE SC programs should be available, but I think the decision during the repo reorganization was to not have them, which makes the inclusion of packages like digikam (which have unstable versions in KDE:Unstable:Playground) confusing.
Why are you coming up again with KDE:Unstable:Playground ? and why should it be confusing ? KDE:Unstable:SC is NOT EQUAL to KDE:Unstable:Playground nor do they have any connection. KDE:Unstable:Playground is build for all available KDE repo's (including the KDE:Release:4x repo's). KDE:Unstable:SC will only build the KDE SC packages and required libraries and that decision was taken and is there to stay. Building all packages from KDE:Distro:Factory in KDE:Unstable:SC would be a big waste of buildpower and would require quite a lot of maintaince power. One of the additional intention was to change the KDE:Unstable:SC packages so that they would install into a separate prefix and that it would be possible to run it besides a stable KDE desktop. This would heavily collide with your idea to start providing also application packages Regards Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Raymond Wooninck <tittiatcoke@gmail.com> wrote:
I compiled a list of packages that are present in KDE:Distro:Factory but are absent in KDE:Unstable:SC. Some of these are probably intentional since the goals of the two projects are not exactly the same, but others I think should probably be present in KDE:Unstable:SC.
KDE:Unstable:SC has as sole purpose to supply the standard KDE Desktop based on the upcoming KDE release and required libraries (if the current Factory version is too low). This means that packages like Amarok, Kaffeine, Clementine, decibel and all the others that you mentioned will not be provided.
Many of the packages I listed are libraries used by KDE, or provide functionality used by KDE. For example, ggz is used by KDE games, xplanet is used by kstars, mobile-broadband-provider-info is used by Networkmanager-KDE4. Others, like kdeutils, are part of the standard KDE SC release (although kdeutils might have been split or something between 4.7 and 4.8). I am not saying they all should be provided, I was providing a list that could be used to determine what should be in there but isn't.
KDE:Unstable:Playground has absolutely nothing to do with KDE:Unstable:SC. KDE:Unstable:Playground contains community maintained packages with unreleased tarballs. These tarballs could be git/svn snapshots, alpha/beta releases, etc. Everything that you do not really want to push to the standard user. Therefore the prefix KDE:Unstable was chosen for this repo.
I thought from the discussion before that people were supposed to use packages from KDE:Unstable:Playground if they wanted software compiled against KDE:Unstable:SC. I may be remembering incorrectly, though.
First is the list of packages that are available in KDE:Distro:Factory but are not available in KDE:Unstable:SC, KDE:Unstable:Playground, or KDE:Extra (in other words there is no installable version of this for KDE:Unstable:SC):
In your comparision you should take into account the main distro repository which contains most of these packages namely openSUSE:12.1, openSUSE:11.4, openSUSE:Factory, etc.
But those packages are not compiled against KDE:Unstable:SC. Can't that cause problems? If not, then why do we have separate repositories for packages, such as with KDE:Extra, built against KDE:Distro:Factory, KDE:Unstable:SC, KDE:Release:__, etc? If it is fine to use packages built against a different version of KDE; then it is wasting build power to compile for all these different repositories. If it can cause problems, then the versions provided with the base openSUSE version aren't valid replacements. I am probably missing something here, though. This is tangential to the point, though, which was to figure out if any of those should be in KDE:Unstable:SC. I already pointed out a few that are used by KDE to provide functionality, and I can see a bunch more likely ones just at a glance, but other people know a lot more about the dependencies than I do, so I thought the list would be more useful to them (you included). The reason I brought the applications up at all was because, as I said, I was confused by the presence of digikam and thought I might have misunderstood the intended structure. Apparently I did not, so just forget about those and we can focus on libraries and other packages that provide functionality to the KDE SC release.
whether this is intentional or not, since some non-KDE SC packages, like digikam, have links to the stable KDE:Distro:Factory version in KDE:Unstable:SC, while others, like amarok and rekonq, do not.
Digikam and kipi-plugins are there because of historical reasons. Digikam and kipi-plugins were initially build on top of libraries that were provided through the kdegraphics package. This changed recently when KDE moved to git and these specific libraries were split out from kdegraphics. We didn't had the time yet to review the new situation correct to see if we should remove packages from KUSC.
Fair enough.
KDE:Unstable:SC will only build the KDE SC packages and required libraries and that decision was taken and is there to stay. Building all packages from KDE:Distro:Factory in KDE:Unstable:SC would be a big waste of buildpower and would require quite a lot of maintaince power. One of the additional intention was to change the KDE:Unstable:SC packages so that they would install into a separate prefix and that it would be possible to run it besides a stable KDE desktop. This would heavily collide with your idea to start providing also application packages
The point of this was not to start building other packages. As I said, I am aware of the decision. The point was to figure out where the differences lie and what should be done about it. Only a fraction of the packages I listed are applications, or included primarily as applications, most are either libraries or used to provide additional functionality. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Todd,
Many of the packages I listed are libraries used by KDE, or provide functionality used by KDE. For example, ggz is used by KDE games, xplanet is used by kstars, mobile-broadband-provider-info is used by Networkmanager-KDE4. Others, like kdeutils, are part of the standard KDE SC release (although kdeutils might have been split or something between 4.7 and 4.8). I am not saying they all should be provided, I was providing a list that could be used to determine what should be in there but isn't.
You are putting now two things inside a single statement/comparison. Let's focus on the two described issues seperately. You indicate as example ggz, xplanet and mobilde-broadband-provider-info which are used by KDE. True that they are in KDE:Distro:Factory, but this automatically also means that they are part of openSUSE_Factory, openSUSE_12.1, openSUSE_11.4, etc. KDE:Unstable:SC is build against these distro releases and will use whatever it requires from there. The ggz package in openSUSE_Factory does not differ from the ggz package in KDE:Distro:Factory. So why to put this again in KDE:Unstable:SC ? The sole reason why that library is mentioned in KDE:Distro:Factory, is that KDE:Distro:Factory is the devel repository for all KDE/Qt related packages in the openSUSE releases. The main principle of the BuildService is that you can build one repo on top of the other. As KDE:Unstable:SC is build against (or on top of openSUSE_Factory, as an example) it will use the libraries that it can find in that main repository. So why should I put again a link to a library that is already used in the correct version. As an example ggz, might be used also by another non-KDE program, so moving the latest version in KDE:Unstable:SC for an openSUSE_11.3 user could have fatal consequences as that other packages might crash due to the inconsistency. Therefore for the 11.3 build of KDE:Unstable:SC, the ggz version of 11.3 is used. This way the main system stays consistent. Ans this is valid for all those other packages. As indicated in my previous email already you can not compare KDE:Distro:Factory and KDE:Unstable:SC as that they serve both a complete different purpose. KDE:Distro:Factory has to be that fat as that this is the devel-repo for the newer version that will appear in the newer openSUSE release. For me in both emails it seems that the above principle is not really known to you as that you fear that users will not have the libraries ggz, xplanet and mobile-broadband-provider-info available to install as soon as they would switch to KDE:Unstable:SC. This is however far from the truth. They will have these packages available, however if they have been running from KDE:Distro:Factory before, then it might happen that they have to downgrade the version of those libraries to the versions that came with their openSUSE release. Of course it can happen that the KDE snapshot requires a higher version of a certain library. We notice this due to the buildfailures on KDE:Unstable:SC and the way forward there is to add this library (as a link from Factory or preferably from the latest openSUSE release) to KDE:Unstable:SC and build it only for those distro versions that require that new version. Of course we first try to check what the impact of this newer version would be for that distro version. e.g. A newer Qt version will never be build in KDE:Unstable:SC as that this could have a big impact on the system of the user. Another example would be the C compiler, libnl for NetworkManager, etc. I am not sure why you reference here kdeutils ? kdeutils belongs to the standard KDE:SC desktop and therefore will always be build in both KDE:Distro:Factory and KDE:Unstable:SC.
I thought from the discussion before that people were supposed to use packages from KDE:Unstable:Playground if they wanted software compiled against KDE:Unstable:SC. I may be remembering incorrectly, though.
This would be valid only for certain packages. People are encougared to use the packages that came with their openSUSE release as the main source for packages. Nobody will ever indicate to a normal user to start using KDE:Unstable:Playground as that this could have quite some consequences. Playground is not maintained as thoroughly as KDE:Distro:Factory or KDE:Unstable:SC and not even as KDE:Extra. But as far as I know also KDE:Extra is being build against KDE:Unstable:SC
But those packages are not compiled against KDE:Unstable:SC. Can't that cause problems? If not, then why do we have separate repositories for packages, such as with KDE:Extra, built against
Good point. I also raised this point during the initial discussion around the repo's and the answer is that thing should remain backwards compatible. This means that Amarok compiled against KDE:Distro:Factory should also work on KDE:Unstable:SC. Fortunately up to now this has always worked and especially now with the upcoming KDE 4.8, which is build on top of kdelibs 4.7.x. The reason why KDE:Unstable:Playground has the build targets for KDE:Unstable:SC is that some snapshot of those packages in there could require also the latest snapshots of KDE:SC itself. For KDE:Extra you are right that according to the main principle, the build targets for KDE:Unstable:SC would be unnecessary.
This is tangential to the point, though, which was to figure out if any of those should be in KDE:Unstable:SC. I already pointed out a few that are used by KDE to provide functionality, and I can see a bunch more likely ones just at a glance, but other people know a lot more about the dependencies than I do, so I thought the list would be
Believe me in certain ways KDE:Unstable:SC has provided more functionality in the past then the KDE desktop coming from KDE:Distro:Factory. There were quite some bugreports indicating that a certain functionality in a KDE package was missing (missing buildrequire) and it was then mentioned that the package in KDE:Unstable:SC had that requirement. So this has nothing to do with missing packages in either repo, but just to go through the buildlogs and see what CMake is coming up with regarding missing packages. Normally those missing requirements are already provided by the standard openSUSE release, but they were never inserted as a BuildRequire. The packages (spec-files, patches, etc) which are used in KDE:Distro:Factory and KDE:Unstable:SC are maintained in such a way that they stay as equal as possible. This way the change to a newer version (e.g KDE 4.7 -> KDE 4.8) is much easier as that it would just require to compare the packages and make only the necessary changes. So you can take my word for it that KDE:Unstable:SC offers you a full functional KDE:Unstable:SC desktop.
The point of this was not to start building other packages. As I said, I am aware of the decision. The point was to figure out where the differences lie and what should be done about it.
The question is if there are really differences or is the difference based on the fact that library x is present in KDE:Distro:Factory and not in KDE:Unstable:SC ? If this is the main foundation, then you should compare which libraries are provided in KDE:Distro:Factory and openSUSE:Factory to see if there is a difference. openSUSE:Factory forms the main basis for all other repo's. So if we have a library missing in there, then we definitely have to do something about it. Regards Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
participants (2)
-
Raymond Wooninck -
todd rme