Fonts and KDE 3 and SuSE 8.0
So far tonight, I have neglected my diabetic pet, bent the frame of my cubicle from punching it in absolute wordless rage and frustration, and severely frightened the poor woman who came to empty the wastebaskets and saw the look on my face. I have job deadline looming, and documents that aren't anywhere near finished, and no fonts. I have OpenOffice 1.0.1. My documents seem to display in one single sheisenfont. That is, no matter what I choose for the font attribute of a Paragraph Style or a Character Style, they are all and always substituted by the exrementafont. Once again, I have gone to the KDE Control Center, and System, and Font Installer. I heeded the warning that I must use Administrator Mode if I want my font-ish stuff applied globally. I viewed the dual windows with "Install From:" on the left, and "Install To:" on the right. There's nothing of importance in the "Install From:" window. The "Install To:" window already has dozens... hundreds, thousands of fonts in X11 Fonts Directory. There are files in the /75dpi directory, in the /Speedo directory, in the /Type1 directory, in the /URW directory, in the /misc directory, in the /truetype directory, in the /uni directory ... do I really need to go on???? They are bloody THERE! I'm looking at them... hundreds and hundreds of font files of several types. They are sitting there, apparently mocking me, in what this interface implies is ALREADY the place where fonts are supposed to go. There is nothing to suggest that I should need to perform some additional step. There's no other button to press, or field to fill in. Many of the names of those font files appear in the pick-lists within OpenOffice and other K and X applications. But it doesn't matter. I can pick any font I like, for any purpose (except for window dressing, which has flavors of Nimbus, and seems to work). It doesn't matter what I pick, it will be substituted for that one, single, ugly pieceofcrap font. I don't know what the substitute font is (it's something that runs the letters together and generally looks too ugly to NOT be intentional), and I don't care. When the "obvious" things, within the KDE interface did NOTHING to access the fonts that are all sitting there, I looked back in e-mails in this list, and went to the suggested SDB pages for 7.3 and 7.1 and did what they suggested, and it had a wonderful effect... NOT A DAMN THING! There are now a couple of extra files in /etc, and nothing at all has changed. Yes, I exited and restarted. No effect. What are all those .pfa, and .pfb, and .spd, and .pcf.gz, and .ttf files FOR, if they all already appear in the directories where the System>Font Installer (root) expects them to be, and they STILL %$#@&!! refuse to appear in my documents and applications? What is the Font Installer FOR, if not to install the fonts?? I have looked and looked and looked, and there is NO function or button or menu item that says: "Activate all the fonts that are already installed and uselessly sitting there." Really. I looked. I ran the Qt Configuration utility, and it was useless. I don't *need* to specify a substitution font... I need the bloody, actual FONTS! If the KDE Control Center is not able to make all the required things happen, it should not pretend that it can. The night security people are kicking out stragglers now, so I have to leave, with my work undone and in disarray. Tonight would not be a good night for anybody to be jaywalking, or driving badly in my city... Tomorrow will be really fun, explaining why I don't have the work done. Why is it this way? What is the purpose of making it this way? Why the mocking list of all the fonts that refuse to appear in my documents? If there is an "Activate your fonts" function, why must it be hidden somewhere? Whose idea was this? /kevin (beyond frustration in Ottawa, Canada)
I know nothing about kde or the way it handles fonts (or openoffice) but in general when you add new fonts you need to restart the X server or at least update the font path with xset. -- -ckm
Well, I got home without running over anybody, and the cat got her insulin in time... And the X server has been restarted several times today (on my office computer, where everything was going wrong). So, what you seem to be saying -- as I read between the lines -- is that KDE is all show, and no go. It just pretends to be able to install fonts, but it doesn't even bother to do a necessary step, running "xset", but it doesn't bother mentioning it. All it would take is a simple: "You are finished with KDE font operations. Now, you must run the xset command to tell the underlying X server what you just told KDE". I mean, how difficult is it to put in a text pop-up at the end of an update function? Wonderful. If somebody is going to just plain fail to do the job, and somebody else is going to fail to do the job, but make a big show of pretending that they are doing it... give me the one that's honest about it... at least, I'll know where I stand. Maybe it's time to look into Icewm or Blackbox, and get away from a desktop that obscures X without covering all of X's requirements and functions. And yes, I looked at the KDE Help and FAQ and... and... Tomorrow, somebody will point out what I've foolishly missed, and I'll have to apologize to the KDE developers... or not. /kevin On Thursday 03 October 2002 01:43, Christopher Mahmood wrote:
I know nothing about kde or the way it handles fonts (or openoffice) but in general when you add new fonts you need to restart the X server or at least update the font path with xset.
--
-ckm
-- To unsubscribe, email: suse-kde-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, email: suse-kde-help@suse.com Please do not cross-post to suse-linux-e
-- "DIRty DEEDS, and they're DONE dirt cheap." [Sing it with me, now...]
Well, I would remember that OpenOffice/StarOffice are GTK applications...not KDE apps so fighting with KDE isn't going to solve your problem. What's most likely your issue is the fact that your Xserver is having issue's parseing the font lists in your truetype directory. When this goes wanky on me. I do this. Login to root: cd /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/truetype rm -f fonts.dir fonts.scale* ttmkfdir | grep -v "^[[:digit:]]*$" > fonts.scale.msttfonts SuSEconfig --module fonts And see what happens. If you end up with these three files: fonts.dir fonts.scale fonts.scale.msttfonts Then cd /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts xftcache mkfontdir * And as a user..do this which will make your current running X server see the fonts available. xset fp rehash It's not a KDE issue believe me. :) :: ::Tomorrow, somebody will point out what I've ::foolishly missed, and I'll have to apologize to ::the KDE developers... or not. :: -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org Tell me what you believe.. I tell you what you should see.
Kevin I am new to this so i don't know if you have already been through this process but... To get all the TrueType fonts into OpenOffice you have to import them in through OOo Printer Setup - there is a button there called "Fonts", just point it to your fonts directory. Hope i'm not teaching granny how to suck eggs, Tim On Thu, 2002-10-03 at 00:23, Kevin McLauchlan wrote:
So far tonight, I have neglected my diabetic pet, bent the frame of my cubicle from punching it in absolute wordless rage and frustration, and severely frightened the poor woman who came to empty the wastebaskets and saw the look on my face.
I have job deadline looming, and documents that aren't anywhere near finished, and no fonts.
I have OpenOffice 1.0.1.
My documents seem to display in one single sheisenfont. That is, no matter what I choose for the font attribute of a Paragraph Style or a Character Style, they are all and always substituted by the exrementafont.
Once again, I have gone to the KDE Control Center, and System, and Font Installer.
I heeded the warning that I must use Administrator Mode if I want my font-ish stuff applied globally.
I viewed the dual windows with "Install From:" on the left, and "Install To:" on the right. There's nothing of importance in the "Install From:" window. The "Install To:" window already has dozens... hundreds, thousands of fonts in X11 Fonts Directory. There are files in the /75dpi directory, in the /Speedo directory, in the /Type1 directory, in the /URW directory, in the /misc directory, in the /truetype directory, in the /uni directory ... do I really need to go on????
They are bloody THERE! I'm looking at them... hundreds and hundreds of font files of several types. They are sitting there, apparently mocking me, in what this interface implies is ALREADY the place where fonts are supposed to go. There is nothing to suggest that I should need to perform some additional step. There's no other button to press, or field to fill in.
Many of the names of those font files appear in the pick-lists within OpenOffice and other K and X applications. But it doesn't matter. I can pick any font I like, for any purpose (except for window dressing, which has flavors of Nimbus, and seems to work). It doesn't matter what I pick, it will be substituted for that one, single, ugly pieceofcrap font. I don't know what the substitute font is (it's something that runs the letters together and generally looks too ugly to NOT be intentional), and I don't care.
When the "obvious" things, within the KDE interface did NOTHING to access the fonts that are all sitting there, I looked back in e-mails in this list, and went to the suggested SDB pages for 7.3 and 7.1 and did what they suggested, and it had a wonderful effect... NOT A DAMN THING! There are now a couple of extra files in /etc, and nothing at all has changed. Yes, I exited and restarted. No effect.
What are all those .pfa, and .pfb, and .spd, and .pcf.gz, and .ttf files FOR, if they all already appear in the directories where the System>Font Installer (root) expects them to be, and they STILL %$#@&!! refuse to appear in my documents and applications?
What is the Font Installer FOR, if not to install the fonts??
I have looked and looked and looked, and there is NO function or button or menu item that says: "Activate all the fonts that are already installed and uselessly sitting there." Really. I looked.
I ran the Qt Configuration utility, and it was useless. I don't *need* to specify a substitution font... I need the bloody, actual FONTS!
If the KDE Control Center is not able to make all the required things happen, it should not pretend that it can.
The night security people are kicking out stragglers now, so I have to leave, with my work undone and in disarray. Tonight would not be a good night for anybody to be jaywalking, or driving badly in my city... Tomorrow will be really fun, explaining why I don't have the work done.
Why is it this way? What is the purpose of making it this way? Why the mocking list of all the fonts that refuse to appear in my documents?
If there is an "Activate your fonts" function, why must it be hidden somewhere? Whose idea was this?
/kevin (beyond frustration in Ottawa, Canada)
-- To unsubscribe, email: suse-kde-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, email: suse-kde-help@suse.com Please do not cross-post to suse-linux-e
Hi Kevin, you do not make this really clear: Do you have the fonts not correctly in OpenOffice only, or in the kde Applications? Do they show up correctly in kword, kwrite etc? If they show up in kword, kwrite etc. correctly then obviously your font setup is ok, then have a look at OpenOffices font handling. Otherwise do what Ben Rosenberg proposes in his answer, to make sure that Xserver isn't having issue's parseing the font lists in your truetype directory. HTH, Matt T. On Thursday 03 October 2002 07:23, Kevin McLauchlan wrote:
So far tonight, I have neglected my diabetic pet, bent the frame of my cubicle from punching it in absolute wordless rage and frustration, and severely frightened the poor woman who came to empty the wastebaskets and saw the look on my face.
I have job deadline looming, and documents that aren't anywhere near finished, and no fonts.
I have OpenOffice 1.0.1.
My documents seem to display in one single sheisenfont. That is, no matter what I choose for the font attribute of a Paragraph Style or a Character Style, they are all and always substituted by the exrementafont.
Once again, I have gone to the KDE Control Center, and System, and Font Installer.
I heeded the warning that I must use Administrator Mode if I want my font-ish stuff applied globally.
I viewed the dual windows with "Install From:" on the left, and "Install To:" on the right. There's nothing of importance in the "Install From:" window. The "Install To:" window already has dozens... hundreds, thousands of fonts in X11 Fonts Directory. There are files in the /75dpi directory, in the /Speedo directory, in the /Type1 directory, in the /URW directory, in the /misc directory, in the /truetype directory, in the /uni directory ... do I really need to go on????
They are bloody THERE! I'm looking at them... hundreds and hundreds of font files of several types. They are sitting there, apparently mocking me, in what this interface implies is ALREADY the place where fonts are supposed to go. There is nothing to suggest that I should need to perform some additional step. There's no other button to press, or field to fill in.
Many of the names of those font files appear in the pick-lists within OpenOffice and other K and X applications. But it doesn't matter. I can pick any font I like, for any purpose (except for window dressing, which has flavors of Nimbus, and seems to work). It doesn't matter what I pick, it will be substituted for that one, single, ugly pieceofcrap font. I don't know what the substitute font is (it's something that runs the letters together and generally looks too ugly to NOT be intentional), and I don't care.
When the "obvious" things, within the KDE interface did NOTHING to access the fonts that are all sitting there, I looked back in e-mails in this list, and went to the suggested SDB pages for 7.3 and 7.1 and did what they suggested, and it had a wonderful effect... NOT A DAMN THING! There are now a couple of extra files in /etc, and nothing at all has changed. Yes, I exited and restarted. No effect.
What are all those .pfa, and .pfb, and .spd, and .pcf.gz, and .ttf files FOR, if they all already appear in the directories where the System>Font Installer (root) expects them to be, and they STILL %$#@&!! refuse to appear in my documents and applications?
What is the Font Installer FOR, if not to install the fonts??
I have looked and looked and looked, and there is NO function or button or menu item that says: "Activate all the fonts that are already installed and uselessly sitting there." Really. I looked.
I ran the Qt Configuration utility, and it was useless. I don't *need* to specify a substitution font... I need the bloody, actual FONTS!
If the KDE Control Center is not able to make all the required things happen, it should not pretend that it can.
The night security people are kicking out stragglers now, so I have to leave, with my work undone and in disarray. Tonight would not be a good night for anybody to be jaywalking, or driving badly in my city... Tomorrow will be really fun, explaining why I don't have the work done.
Why is it this way? What is the purpose of making it this way? Why the mocking list of all the fonts that refuse to appear in my documents?
If there is an "Activate your fonts" function, why must it be hidden somewhere? Whose idea was this?
/kevin (beyond frustration in Ottawa, Canada)
Thanks to everybody who suggested stuff (Chris, Tim, Matt, Ben.... and Carl, you have my deepest sympathies). My setup at home was working much better, all along, so when I got in to the office this morning, I tried every suggestion in sight -- most of which I'd already tried -- and nothing helped. Basically, the fonts used by K for the window dressing and panels, etc. were ok. The fonts that were used inside applications (i.e., data/text areas) were ugly, and the fonts in OpenOffice were unbearable. On closer inspection, it appears that none of the fonts were properly accessed, it's just that the substitution was a little better for some of the other apps, but not OOo. Spadmin (the OOo config) didn't help, which is why I thought the problem must be K or X. xset fp refresh did nothing. Tinkering with the paths did nothing. Tinkering with permissions and ownership of font files did nothing. Don't ask about restarts... I rebooted several times yesterday, and I'm pretty sure that X gets restarted when you boot. So, I've spent this morning with my SuSE 8 CDs and YaST, and YOU and... The upshot is that X and KDE 3 are new again, and now not only OOo but all the other apps are accessing the fonts. Even the window dressing looks better -- or maybe I'm in a better mood. :-) Life is no longer a black pit of despair (although my boss is not exactly happy...). I looked in the start logs and saw no complaints that seemed to relate to X, and I don't know where else to look, so I have no clue what was messed up. I'm hoping that nothing breaks until my 8.1 delivery arrives... with a whole new set of /p/r/o/b/l/e/m/s/ er... I mean.... opportunities. Thanks to all, /kevin On Thursday 03 October 2002 08:00, Matt T. wrote:
Hi Kevin,
you do not make this really clear:
Do you have the fonts not correctly in OpenOffice only, or in the kde Applications?
Do they show up correctly in kword, kwrite etc?
If they show up in kword, kwrite etc. correctly then obviously your font setup is ok, then have a look at OpenOffices font handling.
Otherwise do what Ben Rosenberg proposes in his answer, to make sure that Xserver isn't having issue's parseing the font lists in your truetype directory.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 03 October 2002 11:04, Kevin McLauchlan wrote:
So, I've spent this morning with my SuSE 8 CDs and YaST, and YOU and... The upshot is that X and KDE 3 are new again, and now not only OOo but all the other apps are accessing the fonts. Even the window dressing looks better -- or maybe I'm in a better mood. :-)
Afraid it will happen again. Problem seems to be in the way K =represents= the fonts. They exist, and contain the information, but K's extraction and display of that information is busted. It seems to parse one font and build a cache using only its metrics for all the fonts. I would have tried Xfs a long time ago, but it does not antialias. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEUEARECAAYFAj2cbNQACgkQnQ18+PFcZJvOZgCfTnVw4WoId3SlXo2AbrVxi415 iGMAmItRRUapKSTiShR+gUXS19BnhfI= =+szd -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carl said:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Thursday, 03 October 2002 11:04, Kevin McLauchlan wrote:
So, I've spent this morning with my SuSE 8 CDs and YaST, and YOU and... The upshot is that X and KDE 3 are new again, and now not only OOo but all the other apps are accessing the fonts. Even the window dressing looks better -- or maybe I'm in a better mood. :-)
Afraid it will happen again.
Problem seems to be in the way K =represents= the fonts. They exist, and contain the information, but K's extraction and display of that information is busted. It seems to parse one font and build a cache using only its metrics for all the fonts.
OpenOffice doesn't use either qt or kde. Since I'm not experiencing this problem even though I have the MS fonts installed (thanks Ben) I can't actually test this, but I'd be interested to know if the problem remains if one uses a different window manager, say logging out and starting up gnome or Afterstep instead.
I would have tried Xfs a long time ago, but it does not antialias.
hm. I must be mistaken then. I was under the impression that Xfs for a long time was the *only* thing that handled antialiasing. //Anders
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
OpenOffice doesn't use either qt or kde.
Interestingly, my OO can see all fonts just fine.
Since I'm not experiencing this problem even though I have the MS fonts installed (thanks Ben) I can't actually test this, but I'd be interested to know if the problem remains if one uses a different window manager, say logging out and starting up gnome or Afterstep instead.
I've tried mwm, twm, and Windowmaker, and the closest I came to setting fonts in them was Gnome's control Panel. (I do not have most of Gnome installed) This can see all fonts just fine, though not AAed. I should note that messed up fonts are also on the login window, which I set up using KControl. No one has ever clarified whether this is xdm or kdm, nor how to differentiate.
I would have tried Xfs a long time ago, but it does not antialias.
hm. I must be mistaken then. I was under the impression that Xfs for a long time was the *only* thing that handled antialiasing.
Huh? I have this in my notes. So you're saying Xfs =does= AA? Or are you thinking of Xft? Well, I guess it doesn't matter much anyway, as this is a K problem. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj2ceiYACgkQnQ18+PFcZJv+wwCeLYRA4XY0R/YznHYl+ZVagWRH SqgAn1woF+S7luwDFbY4awy3vycWxySE =wI5f -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carl said:
I should note that messed up fonts are also on the login window, which I set up using KControl. No one has ever clarified whether this is xdm or kdm, nor how to differentiate.
If you set it up using kcm it's kdm. The rule of thumb is: if it looks like crap it's xdm, if there's just one line and you enter alternately username and password then it's gdm, if you get a list of user icons it's kdm
I would have tried Xfs a long time ago, but it does not antialias.
hm. I must be mistaken then. I was under the impression that Xfs for a long time was the *only* thing that handled antialiasing.
Huh? I have this in my notes. So you're saying Xfs =does= AA? Or are you thinking of Xft?
No, unless I'm completely out to lunch Xft is the freetype extension to X. All through the 3.x series of X servers you needed xfs to get anti aliasing, unless my memory is going faster than I had hoped. Search the web for "xfs anti aliasing". You'll get a ton of hits.
Well, I guess it doesn't matter much anyway, as this is a K problem.
Or an X problem with handling anti aliased fonts. Does anyone who have this problem have gnome2 installed? That handles AA too. //Anders
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
If you set it up using kcm it's kdm. The rule of thumb is: if it looks like crap it's xdm, if there's just one line and you enter alternately username and password then it's gdm, if you get a list of user icons it's kdm
It's kdm. So the mechanism for representing fonts to KDM and KDE is the problem, whatever that is.
No, unless I'm completely out to lunch Xft is the freetype extension to X. All through the 3.x series of X servers you needed xfs to get anti aliasing, unless my memory is going faster than I had hoped.
Right, xft is Freetype, and is the source of AA. Ever since I've used Suse I've had the xfs daemon off. If you turn it on, and set XF86Config to invoke the daemon, you'd be depending on that for font service rather than emumerating the font dirs in XF86Config, but no AA. I never figured out how to set fonts in Java and Adobe, so can't see if they're affected. I can read them, and they seem unaffected, but I can't prove that. Beginning to think that one of my fonts is tripping up KConfig's Font Installer. But the only one it's ever complained about is Cracks; I tell it to proceed anyway and it seems to finish fine. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj2ci8IACgkQnQ18+PFcZJsRywCfaJx9YHk2Ne18xdD1LxlJbTcp gioAn3Q3y3vHvG9qnF+/6DrArDdNFKSr =RxkJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I'll repeat this one more time. OpenOffice/StarOffice isn't a KDE/QT app. So nothing..I repeat nothing KDE does will effect the fonts in this software. You have to make sure X sees the fonts correctly. I have both StarOffice 6.0 and OpenOffice 1.0.1 installed and they both work just fine and cute little Gnomeish icons..but I digress. Yes, Xft is the tt/aa extention for X. While the font server that we use to have to have running was xfstt. This is no longer needed. There is a patch for Gnome 1.x so that it can do AA fonts but why bother. I'm sure the next revision of OO should be GTK2 compliant since the Gnome people are running from GTK1 as fast as KDE people ran from QT 2.3.x :) If the instructions that I provided in my last email didn't work for OO/SO then something else is wrong...but it's not a KDE problem. While CKM may not know KDE and care much for all this kooky X crap. I do and I know it. ;) Cheers! And have fun! -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org Tell me what you believe.. I tell you what you should see.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Well, this is familiar. I've made several posts on this very issue, and a resounding silence. No, this is a KDE problem. What Kevin and I have experienced is that when we dare to install our own fonts using KControl, at some point they all get =represented= by one, unusable --often illegible-- font, in my case saudi. KControl LISTS all the fonts, yes, but in examining each of them, they ALL LOOK LIKE SAUDI for me, except about 5% of the total fonts. I removed saudi, and then ALL I HAD WAS EMPTY BLOCKS instead of characters. This happened to me in K2.2.2 and in K3.0.3. Unusable. Kevin, I hear ya brotha. Some people must not really be using Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj2cRkEACgkQnQ18+PFcZJsV8QCeO8IKpc6xcwhgSGSwKnZFgy2r BoAAoIFoC/RbAx1gKv3TNjD3ei/W00oa =gEvo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (8)
-
Anders Johansson -
Ben Rosenberg -
Carl -
Christopher Mahmood -
Kevin McLauchlan -
Kevin McLauchlan -
linux -
Matt T.