On Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:28:08 PM Christophe Giboudeaux wrote:
On Wednesday 09 January 2013 19:59:35 dh wrote:
On Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:02:12 PM Christophe Giboudeaux wrote:
Hi, As decided during the last meeting, some repositories are going to be removed soon. --------------snip---------------- It seems to me that dropping /KDE:/Unstable:/Playground/KDE_Release_49_openSUSE_12.1 and KDE:Release:47 (for openSUSE12.1) is only a tiny step from openSUSE implicitly taking a position that ONLY the current release of the distro will be supported.
Please clarify who is "openSUSE" in this sentence. Or better, I'll do it: The KDE repositories are all maintained by community members.
I'm surprised that you grabbed "who is openSUSE" rather than addressing the real question "Are we taking the position that only current and upcoming versions of the distro will be supported" (from your recommendation at the end of your reply this appears to be your position.) I always assume that openSUSE refers to the whole community, (developers, maintainers, users, contributers) including, but not limited to the SUSE corporate entity. The quotes below came from community sources, not just SUSE corporate.
To quote the release notes for 12.1 "openSUSE 12.1 ships the KDE Plasma Desktop 4.7 as default workspace" ---------snip--------- From the openSUSE Portal: "openSUSE products are backed with free software updates for 18 months after release."
This applies to the main repositories (ie, the OSS, update and non-OSS repositories). KDE 4.7 will still be in the OSS repository.
Now let's face the reality, KDE:Release:46 and 47 (and 48 but that's not the subject) are not supported anymore by upstream and unless there's a important issue to fix, you will also get no update from OpenSUSE.
This makes sense. 4.6 and 4.8 were not part of the original 12.1 release, I'm surprised those repos were not removed earlier.
Although no specific mention is made of repositories outside the core release, it seems to me that if we make upgrade recommendations such as those on the en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories page, then support for those recommendations should not be dropped until the distro reaches EOL.
I tend to disagree. Wasting build power and storage space just for the sake of having unmaintained repositories around doesn't really give a positive impression.
Your response missed the point of the paragraph being referred to. It is not for the sake of "having unmaintained repositories around", 4.6, 4.7 and 4.8 may well be unmaintained, but 4.9 unstable for openSUSE12.1? That provides a testing ground for software which is headed towards KR49. Last I heard, 4.9 was current. It is part of the community recommended, "relatively safe" upgrade path. Is it being suggested that users should subscribe to non existent repos for a stable and up to date KDE4.9 system? http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories "I want to..." "Get KDE SC 4.9.x from a relatively safe repository" specifically suggests using the Unstable/playground repo as part of a reasonably stable KDE 4.9 system. (The kind of system you recommended I use at the end of your reply) Perhaps we should re-evaluate that statement, but we should not remove the linked repository until the recommendation is removed or updated as well. We lose credibility as a community when we suggest users follow an upgrade path and they find nothing at the end of it. Today, a user of 12.1 who goes to the site looking for recommendations about upgrading to KDE 4.9 will have no problem. Next week after spring cleaning, they will be faced with repository not available errors and possibly installed software packages with no clear upgrade route. Not all users will be equipped to deal with that kind of confusion. I fully support moving from 4.9 to 4.10, I just think it would be better to remove the deprecated repositories AFTER the new (replacement / upgraded) repos are on-line and updated information has been provided. It is important to maintain a reputation as a community which stands behind the statements it makes. If we say a (distro) version will be supported for 18 months, we weaken our reputation by not living up to that statement. If we recommend an upgrade path and then remove that path, we get the same result. ---------snip----------
And in order to make this repository maintenance easier, we also have to reduce the number of supported repositories. KDE:Release:410 will be created soon and we really have to avoid using more disk space.
I agree that there are far to many repos, the work you do for the community is not easy, and is appreciated. I sure can't keep track of all the openSUSE repos. KR410 repos being created is great news, but what about unstable/playground. shouldn't the 4.10 repos be put online prior to removing the previous version? (Playground/KDE_Release_410 online before removing Playground/KDE_Release_49).
To give some numbers. As of today, there are 86 packages in KDE:Unstable:Playground built for 10 repositories and 2 archs (and I don't count the Telepathy packages living in a sub-repo).
(Also part of the "reasonably stable" recommendation)
If you want to use unstable versions from the Playground repo, please consider using recent KDE and openSUSE versions.
In my mind KDE 4.9.5 on openSUSE 12.1 is recent. (until May 15th 2013) It seems that to you recent means only the current (soon to be replaced) version of the distro, or the not yet released version :-( This seems to be at odds with the information presented by the community at http://en.opensuse.org/Lifetime :-(
Christophe
Thank you for your reply, as you can see I am not completely convinced that removing all of the repos discussed is a good idea, (at this exact moment) but I am not a maintainer or developer, just a member of the openSUSE community. Thanks for your reply dh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org