I'm interested to hear thoughts abouts if the openSUSE Invis server will include software choices or a bundle only? Regarding collaboration/groupware and office software it looks like the Invis server has included Group-E and LX-office. What about other choices that currently are being discussed within the Linux community? i.e. Zimbra, Kolab, LibreOffice or Novell's Kablink Teaming, Conferencing, iFolder Terje J. Hanssen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
I'm interested to hear thoughts abouts if the openSUSE Invis server will include software choices or a bundle only? I think that software choices is the way we should go.
Regarding collaboration/groupware and office software it looks like the Invis server has included Group-E and LX-office. LX-Office isn't a office Software it's an ERP-System. Office Software
Hello Terje Am 04.11.2010 15:18, schrieb Terje J. Hanssen: like LibreOffice or OOo isn't included because invis Servers are just Servers without any X installation.
What about other choices that currently are being discussed within the Linux community?
i.e. Zimbra, Kolab, LibreOffice or Novell's Kablink Teaming, Conferencing, iFolder
We invested a long time for our Groupware choice, because we don't like the "open core" model where just a base system of a software is Open-Source and interesting additional features are closed Source. Group-e is 100% GPL. This and its usability are the reasons for oure choice. The focus of "openSUSE invis Server" should be a stable and slim server platform for a lot of possible installations and scenarios.
Terje J. Hanssen
Stefan -- www.invis-server.org Stefan Schäfer Vogelsbergstr. 27 63679 Schotten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
We invested a long time for our Groupware choice, because we don't like the "open core" model where just a base system of a software is Open-Source and interesting additional features are closed Source. Group-e is 100% GPL. This and its usability are the reasons for oure choice. The focus of "openSUSE invis Server" should be a stable and slim server platform for a lot of possible installations and scenarios.
Hi, maybe i just didn't read the docu carefully, but which database is used , or better will be used. regarding invis as an standalone server, mysql or postgresql seems a bit to oversized. Just to ask :-) Jörg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
Am 04.11.2010 16:24, schrieb Jörg Stephan:
Hi, maybe i just didn't read the docu carefully, but which database is used , or better will be used. regarding invis as an standalone server, mysql or postgresql seems a bit to oversized. Yes, this is a little bit oversized. We have to install both, because Group-e needs mysql and LX-Office PostgreSQL.
Just to ask :-)
Jörg
Stefan -- www.invis-server.org Stefan Schäfer Vogelsbergstr. 27 63679 Schotten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
Am 04.11.2010 16:31, schrieb Stefan Schäfer:
Yes, this is a little bit oversized. We have to install both, because Group-e needs mysql and LX-Office PostgreSQL.
Stefan
Oh, okay, and there isnt a way to change that, or giving an software an try which uses the same db. Maybe we could even switch to drizzle instead of mysql. Well, i dont know what amount of resources both databases will need when the are running, it depends on what the customer do with them. Jörg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
Gentlemen! I suggest staying with seperate DB-systems for Groupware, ERP, and the like for several reasons. First of all a DB crash only kills parts of the server, secondly the system load is distributed more evenly on multicore/multicpu boxes, backups - at least with bacula - are more straightforward, on hardware RAID5/6/10 disk access is faster, .... I could think of several more reasons but I don't want to be too chatty. I don't like the single-datastore-idea (like the SME servers approach keeping everything in mysql) - it makes the systems too vulnerable. For example a corrupt mySQL instantly kills an SME box. Actually that (and the lack of 64bit support) made me switch from SME to invis .... Cheers Markus On 11/04/2010 04:38 PM, Jörg Stephan wrote:
Am 04.11.2010 16:31, schrieb Stefan Schäfer:
Yes, this is a little bit oversized. We have to install both, because Group-e needs mysql and LX-Office PostgreSQL.
Stefan
Oh, okay,
and there isnt a way to change that, or giving an software an try which uses the same db. Maybe we could even switch to drizzle instead of mysql. Well, i dont know what amount of resources both databases will need when the are running, it depends on what the customer do with them.
Jörg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
I suggest staying with seperate DB-systems for Groupware, ERP, and the like for several reasons. First of all a DB crash only kills parts of the server, secondly the system load is distributed more evenly on multicore/multicpu boxes, backups - at least with bacula - are more straightforward, on hardware RAID5/6/10 disk access is faster, .... I could think of several more reasons but I don't want to be too chatty.
I don't like the single-datastore-idea (like the SME servers approach keeping everything in mysql) - it makes the systems too vulnerable. For example a corrupt mySQL instantly kills an SME box. Actually that (and the lack of 64bit support) made me switch from SME to invis ....
Fair enough! But... To databases on an middles sized server are faster than one? the raid is faster when two databases access one disk? It is "more starightforward" making a backup of two databases than one? An even, i think a half crushed system is as worse than the hole system crashes, by the way it would be mor easy to administrate, giving the customer the opportunity using invis as a little webserver would also pint to mysql. And if the system (one of the databases) crashes, its for normal users hard to find out, just because of there will be only a part of the software which does not work, what normally make users just dont use them anymore. But [2]... okay, we should use the two databases. Jörg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
Dear Joerg! I should have gone more into detail - I'm sorry! For clarification: I have several customers with tight connections to the pharmaceutic industry that have to have fully redundant systems for regulatory reasons (FDA/GxP/ISO)- that is why I don't use the typical Atom-CPUed-twin-SATA micro systems the invis concept is actually targeted at. I mainly use HPs DL 385/585s with it's large cached, battery backed SAS and SCSI controllers and at least twin quadcore opterons for redundancy reasons. These setups typically perform better under heavy loads with lots of single apps which can each grab a cpu core and make use of those 7plus disked arrays. I don't agree with a half working system being worse than a completely out of order one. If 50 people can't do their jobs it's not as hard on a company's budgets as if there were 100 - or all ov them ... You are absolutely right with your concerns about ease of administration but I'm selling these services ;-) Maybe a fork each of "invis light" and "invis heavy" should be considered ... Cheers Markus On 11/04/2010 05:14 PM, Jörg Stephan wrote:
I suggest staying with seperate DB-systems for Groupware, ERP, and the like for several reasons. First of all a DB crash only kills parts of the server, secondly the system load is distributed more evenly on multicore/multicpu boxes, backups - at least with bacula - are more straightforward, on hardware RAID5/6/10 disk access is faster, .... I could think of several more reasons but I don't want to be too chatty.
I don't like the single-datastore-idea (like the SME servers approach keeping everything in mysql) - it makes the systems too vulnerable. For example a corrupt mySQL instantly kills an SME box. Actually that (and the lack of 64bit support) made me switch from SME to invis ....
Fair enough!
But... To databases on an middles sized server are faster than one? the raid is faster when two databases access one disk? It is "more starightforward" making a backup of two databases than one? An even, i think a half crushed system is as worse than the hole system crashes, by the way it would be mor easy to administrate, giving the customer the opportunity using invis as a little webserver would also pint to mysql. And if the system (one of the databases) crashes, its for normal users hard to find out, just because of there will be only a part of the software which does not work, what normally make users just dont use them anymore.
But [2]... okay, we should use the two databases.
Jörg
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Am 04.11.2010 17:39, schrieb Markus Benedikt:
I should have gone more into detail - I'm sorry! For clarification: I have several customers with tight connections to the pharmaceutic industry that have to have fully redundant systems for regulatory reasons (FDA/GxP/ISO)- that is why I don't use the typical Atom-CPUed-twin-SATA micro systems the invis concept is actually targeted at. I mainly use HPs DL 385/585s with it's large cached, battery backed SAS and SCSI controllers and at least twin quadcore opterons for redundancy reasons. These setups typically perform better under heavy loads with lots of single apps which can each grab a cpu core and make use of those 7plus disked arrays.
I don't agree with a half working system being worse than a completely out of order one. If 50 people can't do their jobs it's not as hard on a company's budgets as if there were 100 - or all ov them ...
You are absolutely right with your concerns about ease of administration but I'm selling these services ;-)
Maybe a fork each of "invis light" and "invis heavy" should be considered ...
Cheers
Well, now it makes (a bit more) sense. So, for me, we can stop the DB discussion. Jörg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
I agree with Markus. There is another reason for the two database systems. We are not really involved in the development of LX-ERP or Group-e, but we want to use these programs in productive environments. The question is where we get support for manipulated systems if something fails? Stefan -- www.invis-server.org Stefan Schäfer Vogelsbergstr. 27 63679 Schotten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
Am 04.11.2010 17:29, schrieb Stefan Schäfer:
I agree with Markus.
There is another reason for the two database systems. We are not really involved in the development of LX-ERP or Group-e, but we want to use these programs in productive environments. The question is where we get support for manipulated systems if something fails?
Stefan
So, another question. Do we involve any backuptools, especially for databases at these part of the discussion. I mean a "hotbutton" to restore db if something has failed. And maybe to stop me asking this things, how far do we take this, i mean what will invis realize itself, and where do the support by markus ( :-P ) start? Greets Jörg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
Hello Jörg Am 05.11.2010 08:33, schrieb Jörg Stephan:
So, another question. Do we involve any backuptools, especially for databases at these part of the discussion. I mean a "hotbutton" to restore db if something has failed. invis Server includes a tool ("alldump") which can do nightly snapshots of all databases including the LDAP-directory. It makes an archive of all databases which can be included in a regularly backup. For regularly backups we use our "udevsync" tool. Have a look at it, see www.invis-server.org. And maybe to stop me asking this things, how far do we take this, i mean what will invis realize itself, and where do the support by markus ( :-P ) start? "invis Server" starts as an open source project in 2008. In the past i was the main developer, supported by some student apprentices. Since 2008 we tried to build a community and this was not an easy job. With founding "openSUSE invis Server" we did a kind of project relaunch in hope to get a bigger community. Markus is very active in our forum an he uses invis servers in productive environments, therefore i consider him as a project member. That means that i didn't differ between "invis itself" and "markus support". (i hope my english skills are good enough to make my point clear). Greets
Jörg
Greets Stefan -- www.invis-server.org Stefan Schäfer Vogelsbergstr. 27 63679 Schotten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
Am 05.11.2010 09:21, schrieb Stefan Schäfer:
invis Server includes a tool ("alldump") which can do nightly snapshots of all databases including the LDAP-directory. It makes an archive of all databases which can be included in a regularly backup. For regularly backups we use our "udevsync" tool. Have a look at it, see www.invis-server.org.
Great, thx
"invis Server" starts as an open source project in 2008. In the past i was the main developer, supported by some student apprentices. Since 2008 we tried to build a community and this was not an easy job. With founding "openSUSE invis Server" we did a kind of project relaunch in hope to get a bigger community. Markus is very active in our forum an he uses invis servers in productive environments, therefore i consider him as a project member. That means that i didn't differ between "invis itself" and "markus support". (i hope my english skills are good enough to make my point clear).
I, see. Maybe my english isnt well skilled, cause i really didnt want to blame anybody. Just because markus told he gives commercial support i wanted to make a joke on that. So, if someone could missunderstood this , sorry @ Markus The real question was really just how many backup/administration stuff will be included to the system Greets
Stefan
Jörg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
Gentlemen! I have two different approaches to backups and restores on ivis-machines: 1.) on host that have to stay online 7*24 I stick with Stefans "dumpall" 2.) on hosts that allow nightly downtimes I stop all daemons and system services but the backup ones and backup up a nearly dead box - this actually is the ancient but bulletproof OS/400 way ;-) ... for bare metals I utilize mindi and mondo to do a DVD image of the bare system + backup software installation @Joerg - I aint offended at all :-) Cheers Markus On 11/05/2010 09:27 AM, Jörg Stephan wrote:
, sorry @ Markus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
Jörg Stephan
Yes, this is a little bit oversized. We have to install both, because Group-e needs mysql and LX-Office PostgreSQL.
Stefan
Oh, okay, and there isnt a way to change that, or giving an software an try which uses the same db. Maybe we could even switch to drizzle instead of mysql. Well, i dont know what amount of resources both databases will need when the are running, it depends on what the customer do with them. IntarS and Candy-CRM use MySQL. -- mit freundlichen Gruessen/best regards Pirmin Braun seat-1 Software GmbH - Sinziger Str. 29a - 53424 Remagen +49(0)2642 308288 +49(0)163-6290887 - skype:pirminb Fax +49(0)2642 308626 http://www.seat-1.com pb@seat-1.com http://sourceforge.net/projects/intars Geschäftsführer: Pirmin Braun, Ralf Engelhardt Registergericht: Amtsgericht Coburg HRB3136 ein Unternehmen der MAX21 Gruppe - http://www.max21.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-invis+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-invis+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
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Jörg Stephan -
Markus Benedikt -
Pirmin Braun -
Stefan Schäfer -
Terje J. Hanssen