-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I have detected three spam emails on the lists since yesterday: Archived-At: <https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/factory@lists.opensuse.org/message/6JU5SJBDNTRKRLTLUVVUX6WUSCOLZT7V/> X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-config-1; header-match-config-2; header-match-config-3; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header Archived-At: <https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/factory@lists.opensuse.org/message/VSYHUI55LRGJQDXAZZVFLNR6YWPKL3RZ/> X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-config-1; header-match-config-2; header-match-config-3; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header Archived-At: <https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/factory@lists.opensuse.org/message/3AGLPW45E4CWPT2X3DXYNFLXJUFBLIDS/> X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-config-1; header-match-config-2; header-match-config-3; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHYEARECADYWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCYDe3hhgcY2FybG9zLmUu ckBvcGVuc3VzZS5vcmcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UTmwCfcoAKG7h1RWkAIatRtsqLPkSL TFwAn31E2VeG0EuZfgJXlLvZqBh1fDKv =icSF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have detected three spam emails on the lists since yesterday:
Essentially, most of the openSUSE lists were opened to posts from non-subscribers, back in 2015 I think. This setting was not migrated though and led to every list having a growing queue of mails for moderation. Yesterday I reverted factory.lists.o.o to the mlmmj setting, which is why we're seeing a few spams (that were not rejected by spamassassin). There is even an open issue - https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/89107 -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.4°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 25/02/2021 15.49, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have detected three spam emails on the lists since yesterday:
Essentially, most of the openSUSE lists were opened to posts from non-subscribers, back in 2015 I think. This setting was not migrated though and led to every list having a growing queue of mails for moderation. Yesterday I reverted factory.lists.o.o to the mlmmj setting, which is why we're seeing a few spams (that were not rejected by spamassassin).
Ah, so we are now back to "subscribers only"? Good :-)
There is even an open issue - https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/89107
I see. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/02/2021 15.49, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have detected three spam emails on the lists since yesterday:
Essentially, most of the openSUSE lists were opened to posts from non-subscribers, back in 2015 I think. This setting was not migrated though and led to every list having a growing queue of mails for moderation. Yesterday I reverted factory.lists.o.o to the mlmmj setting, which is why we're seeing a few spams (that were not rejected by spamassassin).
Ah, so we are now back to "subscribers only"? Good :-)
No, the opposite - with mlmmj, we had "open for all" with the migration to mailman, we wrongly changed to "subscriber only", with moderation. I have reverted mailman to the mlmmj setting. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.0°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 25/02/2021 16.17, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/02/2021 15.49, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have detected three spam emails on the lists since yesterday:
Essentially, most of the openSUSE lists were opened to posts from non-subscribers, back in 2015 I think. This setting was not migrated though and led to every list having a growing queue of mails for moderation. Yesterday I reverted factory.lists.o.o to the mlmmj setting, which is why we're seeing a few spams (that were not rejected by spamassassin).
Ah, so we are now back to "subscribers only"? Good :-)
No, the opposite -
with mlmmj, we had "open for all"
with the migration to mailman, we wrongly changed to "subscriber only", with moderation.
I have reverted mailman to the mlmmj setting.
Open for all? That was not the setting I remember, except maybe on a few lists, or perhaps recently. If I mailed with a different address, my emails got rejected. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/02/2021 16.17, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/02/2021 15.49, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have detected three spam emails on the lists since yesterday:
Essentially, most of the openSUSE lists were opened to posts from non-subscribers, back in 2015 I think. This setting was not migrated though and led to every list having a growing queue of mails for moderation. Yesterday I reverted factory.lists.o.o to the mlmmj setting, which is why we're seeing a few spams (that were not rejected by spamassassin).
Ah, so we are now back to "subscribers only"? Good :-)
No, the opposite -
with mlmmj, we had "open for all"
with the migration to mailman, we wrongly changed to "subscriber only", with moderation.
I have reverted mailman to the mlmmj setting.
Open for all? That was not the setting I remember, except maybe on a few lists, or perhaps recently. If I mailed with a different address, my emails got rejected.
On baloo, we still have the mlmmj setup - to reject non-subscribers, a list needs a control file called 'subonlypost'. Only these lists have the file: kernel-bugs libeconf-devel opensuse-cz opensuse-de opensuse-doc opensuse-el opensuse-es opensuse-fr opensuse-hu opensuse-ja opensuse-offtopic opensuse-pt opensuse-sl opensuse-support opensuse-test opensuse-translation-fr opensuse ulp-devel vagrant-admins Afair, the discussion about open vs closed lists took place some time in 2015, but I'm really not sure. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.2°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 25/02/2021 18.02, Per Jessen wrote:
On baloo, we still have the mlmmj setup - to reject non-subscribers, a list needs a control file called 'subonlypost'.
IIRC before the switch, non-member mails were not rejected, but went to the moderation queue. Having it wide-open to spam from the world is probably not a good idea.
Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:
On 25/02/2021 18.02, Per Jessen wrote:
On baloo, we still have the mlmmj setup - to reject non-subscribers, a list needs a control file called 'subonlypost'.
IIRC before the switch, non-member mails were not rejected, but went to the moderation queue.
Yes, that is correct. That is also the setting that was migrated to mailman. Except .... well, I'm confused. Yes, in my email inbox, I see moderation requests for postings to opensuse-factory from non-subscribers. In e.g. October 2020. Okay, well, I'll change the setting in mailman again. Never mind that I don't understand.
Having it wide-open to spam from the world is probably not a good idea.
Three points - a) they are not wide open, we run spamassassin on everything. b) I agree, I also think subscriber-only lists is the best way. c) as my predecessor pointed out in 2015 -
That moderation can take potentially a very long time, so better subscribe to the list you're posting to.
Currently, "a very long time" is something like 4-5-6 weeks. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.3°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 18:54, Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
c) as my predecessor pointed out in 2015 -
That moderation can take potentially a very long time, so better subscribe to the list you're posting to.
Currently, "a very long time" is something like 4-5-6 weeks.
Looking at the lists where the moderation team is operating, that time is not longer than 2-3 days, and that's with only 3 moderators. If we had more of them, we could expand the team to cover more lists. (volunteers appreciated ;) LCP [Sasi] https://lcp.world
Sasi Olin wrote:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 18:54, Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
c) as my predecessor pointed out in 2015 -
That moderation can take potentially a very long time, so better subscribe to the list you're posting to.
Currently, "a very long time" is something like 4-5-6 weeks.
Looking at the lists where the moderation team is operating, that time is not longer than 2-3 days, and that's with only 3 moderators. If we had more of them, we could expand the team to cover more lists. (volunteers appreciated ;)
I guess you need to press on with your recruiting, and in that respect I think it would be wise to consider this, posted recently:
It's normal for moderators to be respected members of lists (or forums) that they moderate. I don't recall ever seeing a posting from Robin on this list. I wonder how he judges what is necessary of moderation and how we see that on the list? Transparency is important.
I too have an issue with arbitrary anonymous moderators. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.8°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:18, Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
It's normal for moderators to be respected members of lists (or forums) that they moderate. I don't recall ever seeing a posting from Robin on this list. I wonder how he judges what is necessary of moderation and how we see that on the list? Transparency is important.
I too have an issue with arbitrary anonymous moderators.
I would love moderators that take part in mailing lists, but I will take any moderators over no moderators ;) LCP [Sasi] https://lcp.world
Sasi Olin wrote:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:18, Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
It's normal for moderators to be respected members of lists (or forums) that they moderate. I don't recall ever seeing a posting from Robin on this list. I wonder how he judges what is necessary of moderation and how we see that on the list? Transparency is important.
I too have an issue with arbitrary anonymous moderators.
I would love moderators that take part in mailing lists, but I will take any moderators over no moderators ;)
I think that is a mistake, but it is up to you, you're driving it. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.1°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 25/02/2021 20.29, Per Jessen wrote:
Sasi Olin wrote:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:18, Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
It's normal for moderators to be respected members of lists (or forums) that they moderate. I don't recall ever seeing a posting from Robin on this list. I wonder how he judges what is necessary of moderation and how we see that on the list? Transparency is important.
I too have an issue with arbitrary anonymous moderators.
I would love moderators that take part in mailing lists, but I will take any moderators over no moderators ;)
I think that is a mistake, but it is up to you, you're driving it.
I agree. And worse, having secret moderators is disgusting. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:38, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
On 25/02/2021 20.29, Per Jessen wrote:
I think that is a mistake, but it is up to you, you're driving it.
I agree.
And worse, having secret moderators is disgusting.
I think that my fear of them ending up being harassed over it justifies it. All of the board was already a target of harassment related to moderation. For some reason moderation everywhere else works fine, but touching the sacred mailing lists is bad ;) LCP [Sasi] https://lcp.world
On 25/02/2021 20.48, Sasi Olin wrote:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:38, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
On 25/02/2021 20.29, Per Jessen wrote:
I think that is a mistake, but it is up to you, you're driving it.
I agree.
And worse, having secret moderators is disgusting.
I think that my fear of them ending up being harassed over it justifies it. All of the board was already a target of harassment related to moderation. For some reason moderation everywhere else works fine, but touching the sacred mailing lists is bad ;)
Keeping them secret, and the existence of moderation secret, help thinking that moderation is something evil. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:55, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
Keeping them secret, and the existence of moderation secret, help thinking that moderation is something evil.
You can actually personally reach out to them on moderators@lists.opensuse.org, I'm sure they would appreciate it. I don't know if that happened but I asked for ml-moderators@opensuse.org too, which would have been a touch shorter (not a lot though) and more consistent with ml-admin@opensuse.org. The fact that the moderation team exists isn't supposed to be a guarded secret though, quite the opposite. LCP [Sasi] https://lcp.world
On 25/02/2021 21.00, Sasi Olin wrote:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:55, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
Keeping them secret, and the existence of moderation secret, help thinking that moderation is something evil.
You can actually personally reach out to them on moderators@lists.opensuse.org, I'm sure they would appreciate it. I don't know if that happened but I asked for ml-moderators@opensuse.org too, which would have been a touch shorter (not a lot though) and more consistent with ml-admin@opensuse.org. The fact that the moderation team exists isn't supposed to be a guarded secret though, quite the opposite.
Nobody appears to know, not even Per. Look, recently someone had a problem with unsubscribing. He wrote to the owner, the owner replied, said he would handle it, then disappeared (he had handled out wrong instructions, meanwhile). The person complained to the mail list, and then Per jumped to the rescue. Archived-At: <https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/message/PRZXBBJKQLIJKGNDH23TFUPFMXOVLNX3/> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Am 26. Februar 2021 00:01:35 MEZ schrieb "Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org>:
Nobody appears to know, not even Per.
I told Per as much as I know, he has access to the mailing lists in the same capacity as I do, has hopefully seen the tickets related to this on opensuse-admin on progress. Added him to subscribers of moderators mailing list so he sees as much as everyone else. I'm not hiding anything, moderators aren't hidden from him. As the board, last year, we announced the moderation effort publicly to openSUSE Project mailing list. We answered questions and concerns to the best of our ability.
Look, recently someone had a problem with unsubscribing. He wrote to the owner, the owner replied, said he would handle it, then disappeared (he had handled out wrong instructions, meanwhile). The person complained to the mail list, and then Per jumped to the rescue.
Probably worth noting that the moderators aren't just men ;)
Archived-At: <https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/message/PRZXBBJKQLIJKGNDH23TFUPFMXOVLNX3/>
That's fun, I wonder how the owner system in mailman works. Considering we have a bunch of dead emails and/or no emails set up for owners and moderators of some lists, that has to be a magic experience for our users. Tell me what else we can do to satisfy that mailing list though: I'm really trying my best to have working systems based on which the project can work its best, facilitate the contributors and help the users. All I get in return is unconstructive criticism, which doesn't even land at the hands of the people it's pointing fingers at, basically an equivalent of publicly talking behind someone's back. Can we please do better than this? That happens literally every time I make a change in the project, my work is shunned on the users mailing list, and I only learn about the shunning a few weeks later from a random person who more often than not has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of official ways to contact the people who make the project go, to report your issues and concerns directly to the developers. However instead the people on that mailing list choose to be not just rude, but also actively work against getting their issues fixed. I honestly give up trying to understand this logic. In addition, since I made this pretty personal for no particular reason, this doesn't affect just me, I know plenty of people who left the project because of this god awful approach to other people's work specifically on the mailing lists. Mailing lists being the primary way to contact a large portion of the developer base make it impossible to avoid all of this too. Let me just say this: if you don't see the problem, you are the problem. openSUSE isn't just a project that exists to keep the same old people satisfied, old people have the unfortunate disadvantage of being more prone to die. It's our duty to help the newbies to be able to use and contribute to the openSUSE Project in the same capacity as any other person around. This means not talking crap on somebody's work behind their back, reporting appropriate issues, working with the developers on resolving your problems. We are supposed to be a community, all I see is making it hard to feel like open source is the right way to have the developers feel like they are doing something good. Sorry for the language, LCP [Sasi] https://lcp.world
On 2/26/21 6:25 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/02/2021 20.48, Sasi Olin wrote:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:38, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
On 25/02/2021 20.29, Per Jessen wrote:
I think that is a mistake, but it is up to you, you're driving it.
I agree.
And worse, having secret moderators is disgusting.
I think that my fear of them ending up being harassed over it justifies it. All of the board was already a target of harassment related to moderation. For some reason moderation everywhere else works fine, but touching the sacred mailing lists is bad ;)
Keeping them secret, and the existence of moderation secret, help thinking that moderation is something evil.
At the moment the only emails being moderated are non subscribers and a couple of people that the board have placed on moderation for a period of time as a result of there previous behavior on the list. Really mostly we are checking spam vs not spam. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
I too dislike secret polices and abusive moderation ('been arguing against it on these very mailings lists), but there is an enormous difference between: - moderating specific people (i.e. "behavioural moderation" -- a dangerous splippery slope); and - moderating systemically non-subscribers who, as a result of decisions made in the past, are allowed to post to the MLs. If Per & Carlos worry that the procedure for selecting moderators is not fair or transparent enough, perhaps you guys would like to get involved in that process, either by volunteering or by recommending people you think would be good moderators?
Op donderdag 25 februari 2021 20:48:47 CET schreef Sasi Olin:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:38, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org>
wrote:
On 25/02/2021 20.29, Per Jessen wrote:
I think that is a mistake, but it is up to you, you're driving it.
I agree.
And worse, having secret moderators is disgusting.
I think that my fear of them ending up being harassed over it justifies it. All of the board was already a target of harassment related to moderation. For some reason moderation everywhere else works fine, but touching the sacred mailing lists is bad ;)
LCP [Sasi] https://lcp.world +1 What is so hard about doing some introspection if your posts get moderated?
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board openSUSE Forums Team
Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op donderdag 25 februari 2021 20:48:47 CET schreef Sasi Olin:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:38, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org>
wrote:
On 25/02/2021 20.29, Per Jessen wrote:
I think that is a mistake, but it is up to you, you're driving it.
I agree.
And worse, having secret moderators is disgusting.
I think that my fear of them ending up being harassed over it justifies it. All of the board was already a target of harassment related to moderation. For some reason moderation everywhere else works fine, but touching the sacred mailing lists is bad ;)
LCP [Sasi] https://lcp.world
+1 What is so hard about doing some introspection if your posts get moderated?
Gertjan, have you ever had a secret police in the Netherlands? if so, maybe you can elaborate on their virtues and effects on society? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.5°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 25/02/2021 20.11, Sasi Olin wrote:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 18:54, Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
c) as my predecessor pointed out in 2015 -
That moderation can take potentially a very long time, so better subscribe to the list you're posting to.
Currently, "a very long time" is something like 4-5-6 weeks.
Looking at the lists where the moderation team is operating, that time is not longer than 2-3 days, and that's with only 3 moderators. If we had more of them, we could expand the team to cover more lists. (volunteers appreciated ;)
I have seen posts held in moderation for about a month, recently. Archived-At: <https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/support@lists.opensuse.org/message/JKCIEJ7N2XRRGMDNLFXEO27BRT5THT7S/> See the delay: Received: from mailman3.infra.opensuse.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailman3.infra.opensuse.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8053F03; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 16:51:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.opensuse.org (mx1.infra.opensuse.org [192.168.47.95]) by mailman3.infra.opensuse.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7942DC78 for <support@lists.opensuse.org>; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 04:46:20 +0000 (UTC) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:33, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
On 25/02/2021 20.11, Sasi Olin wrote:
Looking at the lists where the moderation team is operating, that time is not longer than 2-3 days, and that's with only 3 moderators. If we had more of them, we could expand the team to cover more lists. (volunteers appreciated ;)
I have seen posts held in moderation for about a month, recently.
Archived-At: <https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/support@lists.opensuse.org/message/JKCIEJ7N2XRRGMDNLFXEO27BRT5THT7S/>
Yup, the support mailing list isn't covered by the moderation team (only by Simon it seems) LCP [Sasi] https://lcp.world
Sasi Olin wrote:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:33, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
On 25/02/2021 20.11, Sasi Olin wrote:
Looking at the lists where the moderation team is operating, that time is not longer than 2-3 days, and that's with only 3 moderators. If we had more of them, we could expand the team to cover more lists. (volunteers appreciated ;)
I have seen posts held in moderation for about a month, recently.
Archived-At:
Yup, the support mailing list isn't covered by the moderation team (only by Simon it seems)
I think I may have added Simon this week, after a thread about delayed postings. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.6°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 20:50, Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
Sasi Olin wrote:
Yup, the support mailing list isn't covered by the moderation team (only by Simon it seems)
I think I may have added Simon this week, after a thread about delayed postings.
Ah, that explains it LCP [Sasi] https://lcp.world
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/02/2021 20.11, Sasi Olin wrote:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 18:54, Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
c) as my predecessor pointed out in 2015 -
That moderation can take potentially a very long time, so better subscribe to the list you're posting to.
Currently, "a very long time" is something like 4-5-6 weeks.
Looking at the lists where the moderation team is operating, that time is not longer than 2-3 days, and that's with only 3 moderators. If we had more of them, we could expand the team to cover more lists. (volunteers appreciated ;)
I have seen posts held in moderation for about a month, recently.
Archived-At:
Yes, apparently only _some_ lists had secret moderators appointed. For the rest, it is a fact of life that moderation, as explained by my predecessor in March 2015, can take a long time:
That moderation can take potentially a very long time, so better subscribe to the list you're posting to.
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.0°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 2/26/21 5:41 AM, Sasi Olin wrote:
On Do, Feb 25, 2021 at 18:54, Per Jessen <per@opensuse.org> wrote:
c) as my predecessor pointed out in 2015 -
That moderation can take potentially a very long time, so better subscribe to the list you're posting to.
Currently, "a very long time" is something like 4-5-6 weeks.
Looking at the lists where the moderation team is operating, that time is not longer than 2-3 days, and that's with only 3 moderators. If we had more of them, we could expand the team to cover more lists. (volunteers appreciated ;)
On days i'm working I tend to check the lists once to twice a day but if I see something come in while i'm working i'll probably stop and approve it. More coverage would be apprecated though because I often intentionally go atleast one day on the weekend without being at my desk and i'm also in a weird timezone compared to both. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
Per Jessen wrote:
On baloo, we still have the mlmmj setup - to reject non-subscribers, a list needs a control file called 'subonlypost'.
[snip]
Afair, the discussion about open vs closed lists took place some time in 2015, but I'm really not sure.
on opensuse-project, there was some discussion of open vs closed lists in December 2012. I'm not sure if there was any conclusion. Then on 31 March 2015, Henne wrote:
after experimenting a lot with non-subscriber posting and our spam filter we have come to the conclusion that we can't win that fight :-/
The wide range of HAM and SPAM that make it to our hundreds of lists make it virtually impossible to set up a spam filter with a good miss/false positive ratio.
So we have turned on subscriber only posting for all lists again. Non subscriber posts are moderated.
The date matches the time stamp of other control files, but I cannot make the lack of 'subonlypost' for the majority of the lists match with the above. I.e. it does not make sense. "subonlypost - when this file is present, only people who are subscribed to the list are allowed to post."
That moderation can take potentially a very long time, so better subscribe to the list you're posting to.
This is precisely what we are currently seeing. Is there any possibility the decision to close the lists to non-subscribers was later reversed? Personally speaking, I am in favour of subscriber-only lists, just as I was in 2012. There are other people voicing different views though and my personal view should not affect what I do as the list manager. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.6°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 2/26/21 1:19 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have detected three spam emails on the lists since yesterday:
Essentially, most of the openSUSE lists were opened to posts from non-subscribers, back in 2015 I think. This setting was not migrated though and led to every list having a growing queue of mails for moderation. Yesterday I reverted factory.lists.o.o to the mlmmj setting, which is why we're seeing a few spams (that were not rejected by spamassassin).
There is even an open issue - https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/89107
Previously I was rejecting 10 or so spam emails a day, id probably prefer to keep doing that then have occasional spam coming through. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
Simon Lees wrote:
On 2/26/21 1:19 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have detected three spam emails on the lists since yesterday:
Essentially, most of the openSUSE lists were opened to posts from non-subscribers, back in 2015 I think. This setting was not migrated though and led to every list having a growing queue of mails for moderation. Yesterday I reverted factory.lists.o.o to the mlmmj setting, which is why we're seeing a few spams (that were not rejected by spamassassin).
There is even an open issue - https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/89107
Previously I was rejecting 10 or so spam emails a day, id probably prefer to keep doing that then have occasional spam coming through.
Yeah, I have to agree - I obviously don't know how to read the former mlmmj setup :-( I have reverted factory.lists to the previous setting. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.4°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
participants (8)
-
Adrien Glauser -
Bernhard M. Wiedemann -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Knurpht-openSUSE -
Per Jessen -
Sasi Olin -
Simon Lees