Reminder: Heroes meeting on Tuesday

Christian Boltz

5 Sep 2021 5 Sep '21

18:20

Hello, the next heroes meeting will be on Tuesday (2021-09-07) at 18:00 UTC / 20:00 CEST on https://meet.opensuse.org/heroes https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/96524 already lists several topics, including some left over from the last meeting. Nevertheless, feel free to add whatever you want to discuss ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- [130 lines removed ...] Can you please full-quote the mail another time, I need 5 for a flush ... [Stefan Brüns in opensuse-factory]

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Carlos E. R.

5 Sep 5 Sep

19:49

On 05/09/2021 20.20, Christian Boltz wrote:

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Hello,

the next heroes meeting will be on Tuesday (2021-09-07) at 18:00 UTC / 20:00 CEST on https://meet.opensuse.org/heroes

Sorry, I can't participate, my laptop is not capable of handling the Jitsi load (as client). -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))

Lars Vogdt

6 Sep 6 Sep

10:23

Am Sun, 5 Sep 2021 21:49:41 +0200 schrieb "Carlos E. R." :

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the next heroes meeting will be on Tuesday (2021-09-07) at 18:00 UTC / 20:00 CEST on https://meet.opensuse.org/heroes

Sorry, I can't participate, my laptop is not capable of handling the Jitsi load (as client).

I have to admit that while I have no technical problems, I'm not a big fan of the current form of the meetings. While I really appreciate the Summaries from Christian (big thanks!), I have the feeling I missed some of the discussions, if I can not participate. As currently meet.o.o does not allow recording (and I'm not sure if we really want to record the sessions there anyway), there is no way to check back some details of the meeting summary later. Q: What about using our IRC channel in libre.chat? Regards, Lars

Per Jessen

10:43

Lars Vogdt wrote:

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Am Sun, 5 Sep 2021 21:49:41 +0200 schrieb "Carlos E. R." :

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the next heroes meeting will be on Tuesday (2021-09-07) at 18:00 UTC / 20:00 CEST on https://meet.opensuse.org/heroes

Sorry, I can't participate, my laptop is not capable of handling the Jitsi load (as client).

I have to admit that while I have no technical problems, I'm not a big fan of the current form of the meetings. While I really appreciate the Summaries from Christian (big thanks!),

Yep, I also very much appreciate those, especially on those occasions when I cannot participate myself. Tuesdays are unfortunately a poor day for me.

...

I have the feeling I missed some of the discussions, if I can not participate. As currently meet.o.o does not allow recording (and I'm not sure if we really want to record the sessions there anyway), there is no way to check back some details of the meeting summary later.

Q: What about using our IRC channel in libre.chat?

I prefer the video format, primarily because I think it is less condusive to going offtopic or getting sidetracked into technical discussions (that really don't belong). As for hardware, I'm using an ancient IBM Thinkstation, with a quad-core at 2.66GHz, 4GB ram. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (21.2°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes

Bernhard M. Wiedemann

11:27

On 06/09/2021 12.43, Per Jessen wrote:

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I prefer the video format, primarily because I think it is less condusive to going offtopic or getting sidetracked into technical discussions (that really don't belong).

In jitsi, it certainly is harder to discuss 2 things at the same time as sometimes happens in IRC (and with the lack of threading there becomes hard to read) Either would work for me, as long as we write nice summaries (because nobody wants to read 1000 lines of chat log to find the interesting bits in there.

...

As for hardware, I'm using an ancient IBM Thinkstation, with a quad-core at 2.66GHz, 4GB ram.

android devices also work decently with the jitsi app. The app also has an option to disable video, to save bandwidth (and probably processing power)

Carlos E. R.

11:51

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2021-09-06 a las 13:27 +0200, Bernhard M. Wiedemann escribió:

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On 06/09/2021 12.43, Per Jessen wrote:

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As for hardware, I'm using an ancient IBM Thinkstation, with a quad-core at 2.66GHz, 4GB ram.

android devices also work decently with the jitsi app. The app also has an option to disable video, to save bandwidth (and probably processing power)

What app is that one exactly? I have a tablet, maybe that would work. I see "Jitsi Meet" by 8x8 in Google Play. Is it that one? - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI4EAREIADYWIQQt/vKEw5659AgM/X2NrxRtxRYzXAUCYTYAtBgcY2FybG9zLmUu ckBvcGVuc3VzZS5vcmcACgkQja8UbcUWM1yT2AD+MFPCAUIetCt5xIBca5Zq6vEw QS1710R67PITRc8GYq8A/jkJHeyOzAxk3g6nlDkLZHtB205yde5mK7buIinuwBN9 =EhS3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Bernhard M. Wiedemann

12:27

On 06/09/2021 13.51, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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What app is that one exactly? I have a tablet, maybe that would work.

I see "Jitsi Meet" by 8x8 in Google Play. Is it that one?

Yes.

Carlos E. R.

13:15

On 06/09/2021 14.27, Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:

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On 06/09/2021 13.51, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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What app is that one exactly? I have a tablet, maybe that would work.

I see "Jitsi Meet" by 8x8 in Google Play. Is it that one?

Yes.

Thanks. I tried it. It worked once (connecting to my laptop), the next time it locked with a black display, the next time it worked. The next it locked again when I tapped "toggle tile view". Next time it worked. I put the tablet microphone (BT headphones) next to the radio, and listened on the laptop. Sound is not really good, sounds like an old phone. I'll try it on this meeting. Hopefully I can listen at least :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))

Carlos E. R.

7 Sep 7 Sep

19:02

On 06/09/2021 15.15, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 06/09/2021 14.27, Bernhard M. Wiedemann wrote:

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On 06/0ol9/2021 13.51, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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What app is that one exactly? I have a tablet, maybe that would work.

I see "Jitsi Meet" by 8x8 in Google Play. Is it that one?

Yes.

Thanks. I tried it. It worked once (connecting to my laptop), the next time it locked with a black display, the next time it worked. The next it locked again when I tapped "toggle tile view". Next time it worked.

I put the tablet microphone (BT headphones) next to the radio, and listened on the laptop. Sound is not really good, sounds like an old phone.

I'll try it on this meeting. Hopefully I can listen at least :-)

https://paste.opensuse.org/6453045 See linked photo, that's how I see you. The video may suddenly start in one of the squares for a while, then disappear. This is disconcerting, having people continuously appear and disappear. And all have the camera on, except me. After a while it stabilizes and I see no one, except once in a long while. Audio is generally weak, except some people that are deafening - can't say who, as the no video doesn't clue as to whom is speaking. Oh, "L" is too loud. Lars? Oh, cboltz too (the little symbol is not always correct). Once it suddenly stopped playing and had to restart. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))

Carlos E. R.

6 Sep 6 Sep

11:46

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2021-09-06 a las 12:43 +0200, Per Jessen escribió:

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Lars Vogdt wrote:

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Am Sun, 5 Sep 2021 21:49:41 +0200 schrieb "Carlos E. R." :

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the next heroes meeting will be on Tuesday (2021-09-07) at 18:00 UTC / 20:00 CEST on https://meet.opensuse.org/heroes

Sorry, I can't participate, my laptop is not capable of handling the Jitsi load (as client).

...

...
Q: What about using our IRC channel in libre.chat?

I prefer the video format, primarily because I think it is less condusive to going offtopic or getting sidetracked into technical discussions (that really don't belong).

As for hardware, I'm using an ancient IBM Thinkstation, with a quad-core at 2.66GHz, 4GB ram.

I'm not home, so I can't use my powerful desktop machine, but my laptop. I have two laptops, one of around 2010 and another from 2018. Both go to almost 100% CPU with just two people in the Jitsi conference; with three people the sound stutters (because power is over 100%) and it becomes impossible for me to follow the conversation - even with camera disabled. I don't know how to disable the video entirely. I can confererence using other solutions, like google meet or zoom. It is definitely a Jitsi problem. CPU is two core: Pentium(R) Dual-Core CPU T4300 @ 2.10GHz Just 4 GB of RAM, with SSD, and intel video Vendor: "GenuineIntel" Model: 6.23.10 "Pentium(R) Dual-Core CPU T4300 @ 2.10GHz" Features: fpu,vme,de,pse,tsc,msr,pae,mce,cx8,apic,sep,mtrr,pge,mca,cmov,pat,pse36,clflush,dts,acpi,mmx,fxsr,sse,sse2,ht,tm,pbe,syscall,nx,lm,constant_tsc,arch_perfmon,pebs,bts,rep_good,nopl,cpuid,aperfmperf,pni,dtes64,monitor,ds_cpl,est,tm2,ssse3,cx16,xtpr,pdcm,xsave,lahf_lm,pti,dtherm Clock: 1892 MHz BogoMips: 4189.52 Cache: 1024 kb Hardware Class: graphics card Model: "Intel Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller" Vendor: pci 0x8086 "Intel Corporation" Device: pci 0x2a42 "Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller" SubVendor: pci 0x103c "Hewlett-Packard Company" SubDevice: pci 0x3069 - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI4EAREIADYWIQQt/vKEw5659AgM/X2NrxRtxRYzXAUCYTX/pRgcY2FybG9zLmUu ckBvcGVuc3VzZS5vcmcACgkQja8UbcUWM1wSFQEAkZMjaMpdLsZFDK25cuVDe8N4 TgJOKtBFyldoui+HRYcA/incjHIH0q2Nvx2soi9K1WnQAJKkiIygtTcyF1VqmmxE =mKNQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Christian Boltz

16:35

Hello, Am Montag, 6. September 2021, 13:46:45 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

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I have two laptops, one of around 2010 and another from 2018. Both go to almost 100% CPU with just two people in the Jitsi conference; with three people the sound stutters (because power is over 100%) and it becomes impossible for me to follow the conversation - even with camera disabled. I don't know how to disable the video entirely.

Click the "..." ("More settings") menu (in the bottom), then "quality settings", and set it to "low bandwidth". (The wording might differ since I see all this in german.)

...

I can confererence using other solutions, like google meet or zoom. It is definitely a Jitsi problem.

Just wondering - which browser do you use? I usually use Chromium for video conferences which works quite well. OTOH, I've seen Firefox (my everyday browser) eating up lots of memory when using it for video conferences. In one case it ate up _all_ memory and I had to do a hard reboot to unblock the laptop. (That also means: keep an eye on the memory usage, not only CPU.) BTW: My laptop is now > 5 years old. I can estimate how many people are in a conference by listening to the fan ;-) Besides this annoyance, it works even in bigger conferences, like Jitsi meetings with up to 30 people. Regards, Christian Boltz -- well that's my 2c worth. Well about 1.7 cents with the current exchange rate. [Helen South in opensuse-project]

Michael Ströder

17:08

On 9/6/21 18:35, Christian Boltz wrote:

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Am Montag, 6. September 2021, 13:46:45 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

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I have two laptops, one of around 2010 and another from 2018. Both go to almost 100% CPU with just two people in the Jitsi conference; with three people the sound stutters (because power is over 100%) and it becomes impossible for me to follow the conversation - even with camera disabled. I don't know how to disable the video entirely.

Click the "..." ("More settings") menu (in the bottom), then "quality settings", and set it to "low bandwidth".

Does this really have the impact that all video streams sent to you are limited to a lower bandwidth? Which codec is used? While VP9 causes less network traffic it consumes way more CPU than VP8. You can check WebRTC session details with the following URLs: Chromium: chrome://webrtc-internals/ Firefox: about:webrtc

...

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I can confererence using other solutions, like google meet or zoom. It is definitely a Jitsi problem.

Just wondering - which browser do you use? I usually use Chromium for video conferences which works quite well.

This is one of the really weird deficiencies of Jitsi: It only works with Chromium/Chrome.

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OTOH, I've seen Firefox (my everyday browser) eating up lots of memory

Which version?

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when using it for video conferences. In one case it ate up _all_ memory and I had to do a hard reboot to unblock the laptop. (That also means: keep an eye on the memory usage, not only CPU.)

Hmm, will monitor RAM usage in the future. Because my Tuxedo notebooks locks up frequently.

...

BTW: My laptop is now > 5 years old. I can estimate how many people are in a conference by listening to the fan ;-)

Same on my laptop. But that's especially bad because fan-control on Tuxedo notebooks really sucks. FWIW I'm maintaining the package for installing Galène videoconference server: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/network:telephony/galene Ciao, Michael.

Per Jessen

17:34

Michael Strc3b6der wrote:

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This is one of the really weird deficiencies of Jitsi: It only works with Chromium/Chrome.

Hmm, I use it in Firefox ... -- Per Jessen, Zürich (22.6°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes

Christian Boltz

18:33

Hello, Am Montag, 6. September 2021, 19:08:25 CEST schrieb Michael Ströder:

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On 9/6/21 18:35, Christian Boltz wrote:

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Am Montag, 6. September 2021, 13:46:45 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

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[...] I don't know how to disable the video entirely.

Click the "..." ("More settings") menu (in the bottom), then "quality settings", and set it to "low bandwidth".

Does this really have the impact that all video streams sent to you are limited to a lower bandwidth?

AFAIK "low bandwidth" should even _disable_ the video streams. Note: I only did a short test session with no other people in the room, but since the next option is "low resolution", I'm quite sure that "low bandwidth" is audio-only. (Maybe our Jitsi experts can replace my assumptions with knownledge?)

...

Which codec is used? While VP9 causes less network traffic it consumes way more CPU than VP8.

Good question, I'll check during the meeting tomorrow.

...

...
OTOH, I've seen Firefox (my everyday browser) eating up lots of memory

Which version?

Whatever Tumbleweed had ~5 months ago (and in this specific case it was zoom, not jitsi)

...

...
BTW: My laptop is now > 5 years old. I can estimate how many people are in a conference by listening to the fan ;-)

Same on my laptop. But that's especially bad because fan-control on Tuxedo notebooks really sucks.

I thought it blows ;-)) *SCNR* Regards, Christian Boltz PS: non-random signature -- Working in a datacentre is the next best thing to being talented and popular. I get to spend hours surrounded by thousands of screaming fans [http://twitter.com/_gmh_/status/80741758358654977]

Adrien Glauser

7 Sep 7 Sep

06:45

Someone could record their screen with a third-party program such as OBS Studio, from the "tiles" view on Jitsi Meet. That would go some way towards video minutes. An alternative would be to use https://meet.jit.si/, but I doubt it'll please everyone. Le 06/09/2021 à 20:33, Christian Boltz a écrit :

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Hello,

Am Montag, 6. September 2021, 19:08:25 CEST schrieb Michael Ströder:

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On 9/6/21 18:35, Christian Boltz wrote:

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Am Montag, 6. September 2021, 13:46:45 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

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[...] I don't know how to disable the video entirely.

Click the "..." ("More settings") menu (in the bottom), then "quality settings", and set it to "low bandwidth".

Does this really have the impact that all video streams sent to you are limited to a lower bandwidth?

AFAIK "low bandwidth" should even _disable_ the video streams. Note: I only did a short test session with no other people in the room, but since the next option is "low resolution", I'm quite sure that "low bandwidth" is audio-only.

(Maybe our Jitsi experts can replace my assumptions with knownledge?)

...
Which codec is used? While VP9 causes less network traffic it consumes way more CPU than VP8.

Good question, I'll check during the meeting tomorrow.

...
...
OTOH, I've seen Firefox (my everyday browser) eating up lots of memory

Which version?

Whatever Tumbleweed had ~5 months ago (and in this specific case it was zoom, not jitsi)

...
...
BTW: My laptop is now > 5 years old. I can estimate how many people are in a conference by listening to the fan ;-)

Same on my laptop. But that's especially bad because fan-control on Tuxedo notebooks really sucks.

I thought it blows ;-))

*SCNR*

Regards,

Christian Boltz

PS: non-random signature

Michael Ströder

07:14

On 9/7/21 08:45, Adrien Glauser wrote:

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Someone could record their screen with a third-party program such as OBS Studio, from the "tiles" view on Jitsi Meet.

GDPR: Every attendee would have to explicitly agree with that. Ciao, Michael.

Simon Lees

07:19

On 9/7/21 16:15, Adrien Glauser wrote:

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Someone could record their screen with a third-party program such as OBS Studio, from the "tiles" view on Jitsi Meet. That would go some way towards video minutes.

Yeah but this presumes the whole group is happy to have a complete recording of the meeting publiclly available rather then whats just noted in the minutes. Often there are very genuine reasons not to make everything discussed in a meeting public. I also much prefer text based minutes because I can read them in 5 minutes rather then having to watch an hours video (I read the minutes most weeks even though I don't attend) so even if everyone did agree it would need to be an And rather then a replacement. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

Carlos E. R.

6 Sep 6 Sep

20:26

On 06/09/2021 19.08, Michael Ströder wrote:

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On 9/6/21 18:35, Christian Boltz wrote:

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Am Montag, 6. September 2021, 13:46:45 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

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I have two laptops, one of around 2010 and another from 2018. Both go to almost 100% CPU with just two people in the Jitsi conference; with three people the sound stutters (because power is over 100%) and it becomes impossible for me to follow the conversation - even with camera disabled. I don't know how to disable the video entirely.

Click the "..." ("More settings") menu (in the bottom), then "quality settings", and set it to "low bandwidth".

Does this really have the impact that all video streams sent to you are limited to a lower bandwidth?

Which codec is used? While VP9 causes less network traffic it consumes way more CPU than VP8.

You can check WebRTC session details with the following URLs:

Chromium: chrome://webrtc-internals/

Firefox: about:webrtc

I see a lot of text (which I don't understand), but not the word codec in there. I see this; SDP Local SDP (Answer) ... a=rtpmap:100 VP8/90000 a=rtpmap:101 VP9/90000 Remote SDP (Offer) ... a=rtpmap:100 VP8/90000 a=rtpmap:101 VP9/90000 -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))

Carlos E. R.

18:58

On 06/09/2021 18.35, Christian Boltz wrote:

...

Hello,

Am Montag, 6. September 2021, 13:46:45 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...
I have two laptops, one of around 2010 and another from 2018. Both go to almost 100% CPU with just two people in the Jitsi conference; with three people the sound stutters (because power is over 100%) and it becomes impossible for me to follow the conversation - even with camera disabled. I don't know how to disable the video entirely.

Click the "..." ("More settings") menu (in the bottom), then "quality settings", and set it to "low bandwidth". (The wording might differ since I see all this in german.)

There is video quality, but no bandwidth setting. Video quality I can drop to standard instead of HD, CPU load drops. But as soon as I connect with myself on the tablet, CPU goes up again. Ah! In video quality, the lower setting is "low bandwidth", but this one disables the camera at all. In this setting, I do not see the video of other people and CPU load remains low. Well, it is a solution if the tablet fails.

...

...
I can confererence using other solutions, like google meet or zoom. It is definitely a Jitsi problem.

Just wondering - which browser do you use? I usually use Chromium for video conferences which works quite well.

Normally firefox, but I tried Chrome.

...

OTOH, I've seen Firefox (my everyday browser) eating up lots of memory when using it for video conferences. In one case it ate up _all_ memory and I had to do a hard reboot to unblock the laptop. (That also means: keep an eye on the memory usage, not only CPU.)

Well, memory use is always high with FF... didn't check with jitsi in particular. Opening the FF task manager (about:performance), a youtube tab (not running) has double ram impact, but jitsi has a higher "energy" impact. This time I will try with the tablet first, it must be different code.

...

BTW: My laptop is now > 5 years old. I can estimate how many people are in a conference by listening to the fan ;-) Besides this annoyance, it works even in bigger conferences, like Jitsi meetings with up to 30 people.

My guess is there is some resource my CPU doesn't have that impacts load. Video card? Mine is integrated intel. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))

Christian Boltz

16:49

Hello, Am Montag, 6. September 2021, 12:23:45 CEST schrieb Lars Vogdt:

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I have to admit that while I have no technical problems, I'm not a big fan of the current form of the meetings. While I really appreciate the Summaries from Christian (big thanks!), I have the feeling I

Thanks for the flowers ;-) but let me point out that these summaries are often written by multiple people. I just copy the etherpad content to a mail.

...

missed some of the discussions, if I can not participate. As currently meet.o.o does not allow recording (and I'm not sure if we really want to record the sessions there anyway), there is no way to check back some details of the meeting summary later.

Q: What about using our IRC channel in libre.chat?

I understand that the summaries miss some details, but (like Bernhard) I slightly doubt that someone would want to read the full IRC log (or watch the video recording, if we'd have one). Exactly for that reason, we have summaries. If something is unclear / not detailed enough / ... in the summary, just ask for the missing parts. Personally I prefer the video meetings, but I'm open for improvements. Hmm, let's make that a topic in the, well, video meeting tomorrow? Regards, Christian Boltz -- I generally do impossible things only before lunch ... so maybe I can figure out how to do this tomorrow. [Lee Duncan in opensuse-packaging]

Carlos E. R.

20:31

On 06/09/2021 18.49, Christian Boltz wrote: ...

...

Personally I prefer the video meetings, but I'm open for improvements. Hmm, let's make that a topic in the, well, video meeting tomorrow?

I think I prefer video conferencing, but just mentioning that not every person can cope with them. Just something to be aware of. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))

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participants (9)

Adrien Glauser
Bernhard M. Wiedemann
Carlos E. R.
Carlos E. R.
Christian Boltz
Lars Vogdt
Michael Ströder
Per Jessen
Simon Lees

Reminder: Heroes meeting on Tuesday

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