[heroes] attitude problem evident on bugzilla

Felix Miata

11 Jul 2022 11 Jul '22

06:12

Is there a mechanism for warnings or reprimands for questionable behavior on Bugzilla? https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583 has a maintainer of a package for TW only who will not also maintain the corresponding Leap package repeatedly being unfriendly for no apparent good reason, and a reporter who could have used better words himself. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata

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Bernhard M. Wiedemann

11 Jul 11 Jul

07:42

Worth to note: the heroes are not involved in Bugzilla. For reasons of common-criteria certification, it is operated by a small team in SUSE. Also there are not much moderation tools available. The closest would be to mark comments private so that only SUSE-employees can see them. On 11/07/2022 08.12, Felix Miata wrote:

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Is there a mechanism for warnings or reprimands for questionable behavior on Bugzilla? https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583 has a maintainer of a package for TW only who will not also maintain the corresponding Leap package repeatedly being unfriendly for no apparent good reason

Stefan B. wrote

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FreeCAD works fine on TW, and thats the only thing I will support. For 15.4, you are on your own.

I read that as a statement of fact and in no way unfriendly. In the later replies I can read some frustration about the reporter's attitude, but it sounds not really bad. , and a reporter who could

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have used better words himself.

IMHO, people need to be aware that the packagers are volunteers, so you can only kindly ask them for fixes, but they don't have to spend time on your issues.

Simon Lees

09:42

On 7/11/22 15:42, Felix Miata wrote:

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Is there a mechanism for warnings or reprimands for questionable behavior on Bugzilla?

If you feel it violates openSUSE's code of conduct you can raise it with the board.

...

https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583 has a maintainer of a package for TW only who will not also maintain the corresponding Leap package repeatedly being unfriendly for no apparent good reason, and a reporter who could have used better words himself.

As a project we have no rules stating that tumbleweed maintainers must also maintain packages for Leap we don't tell our contributors what to do here other then if someone submitted a fix for the issue they should accept it unless they had very good technical reasons not to. I couldn't see anything in this report that actively violates our code of conduct but i'm also no longer on the board so they may have a different opinion. Would have I chosen to use different wording, probably yes but as a native english speaker thats pretty easy for me to say sometimes its very easy for things to get missed in translation and unfortunately I think thats what happens here. I'll try and add some clarification here. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

Carlos E. R.

15:17

On 11/07/2022 11.42, Simon Lees wrote:

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On 7/11/22 15:42, Felix Miata wrote:

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Is there a mechanism for warnings or reprimands for questionable behavior on Bugzilla?

If you feel it violates openSUSE's code of conduct you can raise it with the board.

...
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583 has a maintainer of a package for TW only who will not also maintain the corresponding Leap package repeatedly being unfriendly for no apparent good reason, and a reporter who could have used better words himself.

As a project we have no rules stating that tumbleweed maintainers must also maintain packages for Leap we don't tell our contributors what to do here other then if someone submitted a fix for the issue they should accept it unless they had very good technical reasons not to.

Well, if a package is provided in OSS for Leap it must have a maintainer and a bug assignee in Bugzilla. But this is an issue for the Board to handle, or talk in the Project mail list, not here - IMHO. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))

Per Jessen

12 Jul 12 Jul

05:57

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 11/07/2022 11.42, Simon Lees wrote:

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On 7/11/22 15:42, Felix Miata wrote:

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Is there a mechanism for warnings or reprimands for questionable behavior on Bugzilla?

If you feel it violates openSUSE's code of conduct you can raise it with the board.

...
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583 has a maintainer of a package for TW only who will not also maintain the corresponding Leap package repeatedly being unfriendly for no apparent good reason, and a reporter who could have used better words himself.

As a project we have no rules stating that tumbleweed maintainers must also maintain packages for Leap we don't tell our contributors what to do here other then if someone submitted a fix for the issue they should accept it unless they had very good technical reasons not to.

Well, if a package is provided in OSS for Leap it must have a maintainer and a bug assignee in Bugzilla.

That does seem to be the real issue, indeed.

...

But this is an issue for the Board to handle, or talk in the Project mail list, not here - IMHO.

I don't see what the Board is supposed to do. There appears to be a package in Leap that perhaps should not have gone into Leap (as the maintainer does not support it). However, other people seem to have managed to make it work, so maybe just a storm in a teacup? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.7°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes

Attila Pinter

06:17

------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, July 12th, 2022 at 12:57 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

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I don't see what the Board is supposed to do.

We can't do much when it comes to projects, unless there is an actual conflict resolution request or complaint is sent to us, but even then we can't just "order" people to do what they don't want to. Anyhow this is my take on this: Stefan pointed out that he is not maintaining the package for Leap, and then he faced quite an interesting tone from OP which is frankly I find rude and demanding. At first glance I not even see FreeCAD to be available for 15.4 on software-o-o (I'm not using Leap), but for 15.3 from the official repos so if you install something from experimental repos there is not much to do since those packages are not as heavily tested as the ones in the official repos, hence the experimental flag.

...

There appears to be a package in Leap that perhaps should not have gone into Leap (as the maintainer does not support it). However, other people seem to have managed to make it work, so maybe just a storm in a teacup?

Agreed, it does indeed seems to be a "storm in a teacup". I can't confirm if the package is available for Leap 15.4 from the official repos though. With that said my advice is this: we're all volunteers, be kind and understanding to each other, help if you can, and don't be rude or demanding. If FreeCAD is important to you use it on 15.3 or install it in a distrobox/toolbox, there are fairly low-hanging workarounds available, and I would be happy to help if needed. -- Br, A.

Georg Pfuetzenreuter

06:31

On 7/12/22 08:17, Attila Pinter wrote:

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------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, July 12th, 2022 at 12:57 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

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I don't see what the Board is supposed to do. We can't do much when it comes to projects, unless there is an actual conflict resolution request or complaint is sent to us, but even then we can't just "order" people to do what they don't want to.

Anyhow this is my take on this: Stefan pointed out that he is not maintaining the package for Leap, and then he faced quite an interesting tone from OP which is frankly I find rude and demanding. At first glance I not even see FreeCAD to be available for 15.4 on software-o-o (I'm not using Leap), but for 15.3 from the official repos

You won't find software available in 15.4 on software-o-o easily... https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/112598 :-)

...

so if you install something from experimental repos there is not much to do since those packages are not as heavily tested as the ones in the official repos, hence the experimental flag.

...
There appears to be a package in Leap that perhaps should not have gone into Leap (as the maintainer does not support it). However, other people seem to have managed to make it work, so maybe just a storm in a teacup? Agreed, it does indeed seems to be a "storm in a teacup". I can't confirm if the package is available for Leap 15.4 from the official repos though.

With that said my advice is this: we're all volunteers, be kind and understanding to each other, help if you can, and don't be rude or demanding. If FreeCAD is important to you use it on 15.3 or install it in a distrobox/toolbox, there are fairly low-hanging workarounds available, and I would be happy to help if needed.

-- Br, A.

Felix Miata

06:33

New subject: [heroes] FreeCAD for 15.4 (was: attitude problem...)

Attila Pinter composed on 2022-07-12 06:17 (UTC):

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I can't confirm if the package is available for Leap 15.4 from the official repos though.

Carlos E. R.

06:48

On 12/07/2022 07.57, Per Jessen wrote:

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Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 11/07/2022 11.42, Simon Lees wrote:

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On 7/11/22 15:42, Felix Miata wrote:

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Is there a mechanism for warnings or reprimands for questionable behavior on Bugzilla?

If you feel it violates openSUSE's code of conduct you can raise it with the board.

...
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583 has a maintainer of a package for TW only who will not also maintain the corresponding Leap package repeatedly being unfriendly for no apparent good reason, and a reporter who could have used better words himself.

As a project we have no rules stating that tumbleweed maintainers must also maintain packages for Leap we don't tell our contributors what to do here other then if someone submitted a fix for the issue they should accept it unless they had very good technical reasons not to.

Well, if a package is provided in OSS for Leap it must have a maintainer and a bug assignee in Bugzilla.

That does seem to be the real issue, indeed.

...
But this is an issue for the Board to handle, or talk in the Project mail list, not here - IMHO.

I don't see what the Board is supposed to do.

Correct the bad manners from the contributor. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))

Per Jessen

06:58

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 12/07/2022 07.57, Per Jessen wrote:

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I don't see what the Board is supposed to do.

Correct the bad manners from the contributor.

Yeah, good luck with that. If it were me, that would really upset me. FWIW, in the bugzilla, I don't see any bad manners until some 3rd party butts in. Anyway, way off-topic here :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.8°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes

Carlos E. R.

07:05

On 12/07/2022 08.58, Per Jessen wrote:

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Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 12/07/2022 07.57, Per Jessen wrote:

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I don't see what the Board is supposed to do.

Correct the bad manners from the contributor.

Yeah, good luck with that. If it were me, that would really upset me.

Well, as I have been on the receiving end, I'm touchy with that issue ;-)

...

FWIW, in the bugzilla, I don't see any bad manners until some 3rd party butts in. Anyway, way off-topic here :-)

I see it worsens, yes, but it started before. I see a reaction. Once it starts, we are off. But yes, it is OT here, as I said from the start;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))

Simon Lees

08:28

On 7/12/22 00:47, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 11/07/2022 11.42, Simon Lees wrote:

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On 7/11/22 15:42, Felix Miata wrote:

...
Is there a mechanism for warnings or reprimands for questionable behavior on Bugzilla?

If you feel it violates openSUSE's code of conduct you can raise it with the board.

...
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583 has a maintainer of a package for TW only who will not also maintain the corresponding Leap package repeatedly being unfriendly for no apparent good reason, and a reporter who could have used better words himself.

As a project we have no rules stating that tumbleweed maintainers must also maintain packages for Leap we don't tell our contributors what to do here other then if someone submitted a fix for the issue they should accept it unless they had very good technical reasons not to.

Well, if a package is provided in OSS for Leap it must have a maintainer and a bug assignee in Bugzilla.

This is not currently the case, atleast the bugzilla part anyway that info comes from the devel project in obs, and more often then not that has the tumbleweed maintainer set, mostly this is the same person so its not a big issue, sometimes it is the Leap and Tumbleweed maintainer other times it ends up being no one. Unfortunately short of dropping packages if that is not set (which will break stuff) there is not much more we can do, you can't even really tell if the person set as the bugowner is even still active in the community unless they formally say that they are not and remove themselves. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

Carlos E. R.

17:26

On 12/07/2022 10.28, Simon Lees wrote:

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On 7/12/22 00:47, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 11/07/2022 11.42, Simon Lees wrote:

...
On 7/11/22 15:42, Felix Miata wrote:

...
Is there a mechanism for warnings or reprimands for questionable behavior on Bugzilla?

If you feel it violates openSUSE's code of conduct you can raise it with the board.

...
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583 has a maintainer of a package for TW only who will not also maintain the corresponding Leap package repeatedly being unfriendly for no apparent good reason, and a reporter who could have used better words himself.

As a project we have no rules stating that tumbleweed maintainers must also maintain packages for Leap we don't tell our contributors what to do here other then if someone submitted a fix for the issue they should accept it unless they had very good technical reasons not to.

Well, if a package is provided in OSS for Leap it must have a maintainer and a bug assignee in Bugzilla.

This is not currently the case, atleast the bugzilla part anyway that info comes from the devel project in obs, and more often then not that has the tumbleweed maintainer set, mostly this is the same person so its not a big issue, sometimes it is the Leap and Tumbleweed maintainer other times it ends up being no one. Unfortunately short of dropping packages if that is not set (which will break stuff) there is not much more we can do, you can't even really tell if the person set as the bugowner is even still active in the community unless they formally say that they are not and remove themselves.

Fair enough. Maybe there is something that can be done to avoid future misunderstandings? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))

Per Jessen

05:54

Simon Lees wrote:

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On 7/11/22 15:42, Felix Miata wrote:

...
Is there a mechanism for warnings or reprimands for questionable behavior on Bugzilla?

If you feel it violates openSUSE's code of conduct you can raise it with the board.

...
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1200583 has a I couldn't see anything in this report that actively violates our code of conduct

Nor do I. He was at most being direct and to the point, I would say. No sarcasm, no swearing, not even a hint of impoliteness. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.6°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes

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Attila Pinter
Bernhard M. Wiedemann
Carlos E. R.
Carlos E. R.
Felix Miata
Georg Pfuetzenreuter
Per Jessen
Simon Lees

[heroes] attitude problem evident on bugzilla

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