[opensuse-gnome] Monsoon/Transmission, Pidgin/Empathy, Gwibber, etc.
Hey there, So lately, we've been pretty bad at knowing when a decision was taken and executing it. During one of the last few meetings, it was decided to move to transmission, but the meeting was not well-attended. Luis, what is the end word? Same for pidgin & empathy. What was the decision here? Luis, I believe you were looking if the facebook plugin can work with empathy. Any luck there? Also, people wanted to push gwibber to factory. Is the version in Contrib working fine on factory? Can someone submit it to G:F, I'll forward it from there. James, maybe? I'm pretty sure we have other examples of stuff that we just dropped. Let's try to not do this :-) Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 23:27 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
Hey there,
So lately, we've been pretty bad at knowing when a decision was taken and executing it.
During one of the last few meetings, it was decided to move to transmission, but the meeting was not well-attended. Luis, what is the end word?
I'm not a torrent user, so I won't comment here as my opinion is worthless. :-)
Same for pidgin & empathy. What was the decision here? Luis, I believe you were looking if the facebook plugin can work with empathy. Any luck there?
Honestly, I did try empathy for a while when you last brought up this question. And meant to put together a list of issues why I found it unusable, but got distracted and then went on the road for a while. I'm in favor of using Empathy for the simple reason that there is the claim it is more actively developed. But, in reality, I switched back to Pidgin after about 2 weeks because I couldn't find it usable and couldn't even tell when people were communicating with me (no flashing icon in notify tray) etc. So, I'm not sure Empathy is really ready for prime-time yet and probably would advocate that we engage in a rigorous testing of usability before "shocking" users in 11.2 with a complete change of interface that might lose some functionality. A definitive list of pros and cons rather than vague "it don't work" like I'm doing here would behoove us much more.
Also, people wanted to push gwibber to factory. Is the version in Contrib working fine on factory? Can someone submit it to G:F, I'll forward it from there. James, maybe?
I'd been using Funky's repo for Gwibber and a few months ago it stopped working and I was advised to downgrade to a previous version. I haven't used any version from Contrib yet and should do this immediately to see how it looks.
I'm pretty sure we have other examples of stuff that we just dropped. Let's try to not do this :-)
Cheers,
Vincent
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Le samedi 08 août 2009, à 16:43 -0500, Bryen M Yunashko a écrit :
But, in reality, I switched back to Pidgin after about 2 weeks because I couldn't find it usable and couldn't even tell when people were communicating with me (no flashing icon in notify tray) etc.
Heh. Are you using a window list? If yes, the window should be blinking in the window list. Else, you might want to look at the great new wnck-urgency-monitor application: it will put an icon in the notification area when a window requires your attention. It changed my life. (I had the same issue as you have with empathy, fwiw, since I don't use a window list) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 23:58 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le samedi 08 août 2009, à 16:43 -0500, Bryen M Yunashko a écrit :
But, in reality, I switched back to Pidgin after about 2 weeks because I couldn't find it usable and couldn't even tell when people were communicating with me (no flashing icon in notify tray) etc.
Heh. Are you using a window list? If yes, the window should be blinking in the window list. Else, you might want to look at the great new wnck-urgency-monitor application: it will put an icon in the notification area when a window requires your attention.
It changed my life. (I had the same issue as you have with empathy, fwiw, since I don't use a window list)
Vincent
I don't use a window list either. It's just too space-consuming on my precious tiny 24" monitor. :-) I use Window selector. But will give wnck-urgency-monitor a try. Therein lies an issue. You *have* know know of the existence of that app, whereas Pidgin didn't require it. But besides that, that was merely the most excruciatingly memorable issue. There were a few others but I don't remember them at the moment.
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Le samedi 08 août 2009, à 17:04 -0500, Bryen M Yunashko a écrit :
Therein lies an issue. You *have* know know of the existence of that app, whereas Pidgin didn't require it.
Nah, it's a deliberate choice of the empathy developers. They already notify the user by setting the right hint on the window. It's just that the desktop is broken in this very specific case: the notification doesn't appear if you don't have a window list. wnck-urgency-monitor is just a quick workaround for this. To give a more detailed rationale: empathy developers don't want to have a blinking window in the window list and something in the notification area, because it'd be spammy. They try to be nice :-) (and it's indeed not just an issue with empathy, but with all apps using this hint; that's why it's more some desktop-wide brokenness) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Am Samstag, den 08.08.2009, 23:27 +0200 schrieb Vincent Untz:
During one of the last few meetings, it was decided to move to transmission, but the meeting was not well-attended. Luis, what is the end word?
I didn't attend the meeting but I sure hope it's Transmission from now on. :-) Greets, Chris -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Christian Jäger <christian.jaeger@rub.de> wrote:
Hi,
Am Samstag, den 08.08.2009, 23:27 +0200 schrieb Vincent Untz:
During one of the last few meetings, it was decided to move to transmission, but the meeting was not well-attended. Luis, what is the end word?
I didn't attend the meeting but I sure hope it's Transmission from now on. :-)
Greets, Chris
Dear opensuse-gnome team, Wasn't one of the problem of including Transmission was the DHT support? According to this ticket (http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2222), it seems that Transmission has DHT support as a compile-time option. Does that mean if I want Transmission *with* DHT, I would have to compile it myself or get it from a non-official repository? As for Monsoon, it appears from the MonoTorrent blog that DHT support would be available as an addin, but simply disabled by default (http://monotorrent.blogspot.com/2009/05/monsoon-blowing-down-barriers.html). This seems much simpler to me. However, it is quite obvious that Monsoon is not as feature rich as Transmission, or at lest not yet. I really like Monsoon because I think it was quite some potential, and that Mono technology is pretty cool! And I like Transmission because it is lightweight and was more useful features. In the end, I am not a big torrent user and I can easily live with either client, or install the client of my choice. Just my thoughts. Thanks! Cordially, Dariel Dato-on -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Odd-rationale<oddrationale@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Christian Jäger <christian.jaeger@rub.de> wrote:
Hi,
Am Samstag, den 08.08.2009, 23:27 +0200 schrieb Vincent Untz:
During one of the last few meetings, it was decided to move to transmission, but the meeting was not well-attended. Luis, what is the end word?
I didn't attend the meeting but I sure hope it's Transmission from now on. :-)
Greets, Chris
Wasn't one of the problem of including Transmission was the DHT support?
According to this ticket (http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2222), it seems that Transmission has DHT support as a compile-time option. Does that mean if I want Transmission *with* DHT, I would have to compile it myself or get it from a non-official repository?
As for Monsoon, it appears from the MonoTorrent blog that DHT support would be available as an addin, but simply disabled by default (http://monotorrent.blogspot.com/2009/05/monsoon-blowing-down-barriers.html). This seems much simpler to me.
If it's policy to disallow DHT, wouldn't that preclude shipping Monsoon with a "click here to enable DHT" option? On the other hand, if that option *is* allowed and desirable to the opensuse-gnome team, I can revisit #2222 and make DHT a run-time option instead of a compile-time option. After all, the entire point of #2222 was to make Transmission more useful to SUSE and Novell. Regardless, the compile-time DHT / no-DHT choice is available right now in a released, supported version of Transmission. The Monsoon blog entry says that the "addin" option for DHT is a work in progress which will be included in a "preview release". That blog entry is two an a half months old...
However, it is quite obvious that Monsoon is not as feature rich as Transmission, or at lest not yet.
I really like Monsoon because I think it was quite some potential, and that Mono technology is pretty cool! And I like Transmission because it is lightweight and was more useful features.
I like Monsoon too, though of course I'd like to see Transmission as the default client. A couple of months ago I did a shootout between various BitTorrent apps, including Transmission and Monsoon. Here are the results: http://pastehtml.com/view/090621g11KlBWM.html Transmission uses half the memory of Monsoon.
In the end, I am not a big torrent user and I can easily live with either client, or install the client of my choice.
Just my thoughts. Thanks!
Thanks, Dariel cheers, Charles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Le lundi 10 août 2009, à 00:31 -0500, Charles Kerr a écrit :
If it's policy to disallow DHT, wouldn't that preclude shipping Monsoon with a "click here to enable DHT" option? On the other hand, if that option *is* allowed and desirable to the opensuse-gnome team, I can revisit #2222 and make DHT a run-time option instead of a compile-time option. After all, the entire point of #2222 was to make Transmission more useful to SUSE and Novell.
My guess (as someone who didn't follow any of this closely) is that the monsoon package wouldn't ship with the add-in by default, but adding it would be easy. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:52 AM, Vincent Untz<vuntz@opensuse.org> wrote:
My guess (as someone who didn't follow any of this closely) is that the monsoon package wouldn't ship with the add-in by default, but adding it would be easy.
I asked Novell's legal about the DHT issue and got a fast and helpful reply, which I've added to #2222 for posterity: <http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2222#comment:14> Summary: "shipping DHT enable package is possible, but that we should ensure that we at least inform the user that the package ($BITTORRENT_CLIENT) should only be used for legal file transfer. .... If your client displayed a notice on startup it might suffice - of course, it would be much more elegant to have the distro do this so that there would be no need to change all currently available P2P clients." This is good news IMO, since it avoids the need for a separate DHT plugin and/or maintainers packaging two separate builds when one will do. I agree with Ciaran that a general popup is cleaner than one per-app. But for the short term, here's a per-app popup for Transmission: <http://trac.transmissionbt.com/attachment/ticket/2222/legal-notice.diff> which generates this dialog: <http://imgur.com/LMF6d.png> cheers, Charles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
ma., 10.08.2009 kl. 11.50 -0500, skrev Charles Kerr:
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:52 AM, Vincent Untz<vuntz@opensuse.org> wrote:
My guess (as someone who didn't follow any of this closely) is that the monsoon package wouldn't ship with the add-in by default, but adding it would be easy.
I asked Novell's legal about the DHT issue and got a fast and helpful reply, which I've added to #2222 for posterity: <http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2222#comment:14>
snip
I agree with Ciaran that a general popup is cleaner than one per-app. But for the short term, here's a per-app popup for Transmission: <http://trac.transmissionbt.com/attachment/ticket/2222/legal-notice.diff> which generates this dialog: <http://imgur.com/LMF6d.png>
cheers, Charles
Transmission patched and submitted for review from GNOME:Factory maintainers Package submitted to GNOME:Factory (request id: 17378). Vuntz please deny this req - as I forgot to add the patch to my branch first :) I've sent a new req 17379 - that is the "one" to ok if it's found usable. Test of transmission in opensuse with patch screenshot http://bildr.no/view/465565 Charles: This was the right "switch" for configure right? %configure \ --with-gtk --enable-dht // Bjørn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
2009/8/10 Bjørn Lie <bjorn.lie@gmail.com>:
ma., 10.08.2009 kl. 11.50 -0500, skrev Charles Kerr:
I asked Novell's legal about the DHT issue and got a fast and helpful reply, which I've added to #2222 for posterity: <http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2222#comment:14> snip I agree with Ciaran that a general popup is cleaner than one per-app. But for the short term, here's a per-app popup for Transmission: <http://trac.transmissionbt.com/attachment/ticket/2222/legal-notice.diff> which generates this dialog: <http://imgur.com/LMF6d.png>
I've sent a new req 17379 - that is the "one" to ok if it's found usable.
Test of transmission in opensuse with patch screenshot http://bildr.no/view/465565
Charles: This was the right "switch" for configure right?
%configure \ --with-gtk --enable-dht
Yes, that should be fine. DHT is built by default, so "--enable-dht" is unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt anything. Charles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Le lundi 10 août 2009, à 21:02 +0200, Bjørn Lie a écrit :
Transmission patched and submitted for review from GNOME:Factory maintainers
I have some concerns with this patch: + I'm not sure the wording is the best wording possible - "Notice for first-time users" => maybe s/Notice/Note/ - s/peoples/people/ - it feels honestly a bit aggressive :/ + I wouldn't do that with a dialog. I would use the new GtkInfoBar stuff to not force people to interact with the dialog. This way you could even add a button "Learn more" opening some text in a dialog or a web page, that would be well-written (and translated). Limiting ourselves to two short sentences feels weird. + this adds a very visible string. And we'll have no translations. Is this option that important to push something like this now? (on the submission itself: you have some weird spacing in your Patch1 line, and the new requires is not needed, as far as I know :-)) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Vincent Untz<vuntz@opensuse.org> wrote:
I have some concerns with this patch:
I've added a revised patch to upstream ticket #2222: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/attachment/ticket/2222/legal-notice-2.diff It addresses a two of the issues you raised: (1) softening the wording a little bit (but still using the wording suggeted by legal) (2) using a GtkInfoBar instead of a GtkMessageDialog. But doesn't address the other two: (3) it's still a very visible string with no translations. (very important, IMO) (4) there's no "learn more" button, as I'm not sure what to add.
Is this option that important to push something like this now?
Given the timeline, it would might be better to use the non-DHT version of 1.73 for 11.2, and punt all of this for the next release after that. cheers, Charles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 14 août 2009, à 09:17 -0500, Charles Kerr a écrit :
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Vincent Untz<vuntz@opensuse.org> wrote:
I have some concerns with this patch:
I've added a revised patch to upstream ticket #2222: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/attachment/ticket/2222/legal-notice-2.diff
Wow. I really love your reactiveness! Thanks!
Is this option that important to push something like this now?
Given the timeline, it would might be better to use the non-DHT version of 1.73 for 11.2, and punt all of this for the next release after that.
That's my opinion too, mostly because of the new strings that won't be translated. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 23:27 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
Same for pidgin & empathy. What was the decision here? Luis, I believe you were looking if the facebook plugin can work with empathy. Any luck there?
Last time I tried Empathy, it just crashed at start-up and I didn't feel like messing with it (this was also a few months ago, so I'll give it another try), but no matter whether we end up using Pidgin or Empathy, I would like to see Facebook chat built in (there's an openFATE request for Pidgin, if we switch to Empathy I'd still request it). -- Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy openSUSE Project Member www.twitter.com/KevinDupuy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Also, people wanted to push gwibber to factory. Is the version in Contrib working fine on factory? Can someone submit it to G:F, I'll forward it from there. James, maybe?
I'd rather wait a short time on this. We're waiting on a patch from HackWeek that will add some really nice integration with the rest of the GNOME desktop. Also, I'm in favour of pushing the trunk packages I have in home:Riggwelter:GNOME_Contrib - they're actually much more stable than the 'stable' ones in G:Con at the moment. -- James Ogley (riggwelter) openSUSE Member GNOME Team and Planet SUSE e: riggwelter@opensuse.org w: http://opensuse.org/GNOME t: @riggwelter w: http://www.planetsuse.org openSUSE: Get It, Discover It, Create It at http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Le lundi 10 août 2009, à 18:58 +0100, James Ogley a écrit :
Also, people wanted to push gwibber to factory. Is the version in Contrib working fine on factory? Can someone submit it to G:F, I'll forward it from there. James, maybe?
I'd rather wait a short time on this.
We're waiting on a patch from HackWeek that will add some really nice integration with the rest of the GNOME desktop.
Also, I'm in favour of pushing the trunk packages I have in home:Riggwelter:GNOME_Contrib - they're actually much more stable than the 'stable' ones in G:Con at the moment.
The thing is that the longer we wait, the harder it will be to have the package in Factory. If we add it now, we'll still be able to fix issues later... Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
The thing is that the longer we wait, the harder it will be to have the package in Factory. If we add it now, we'll still be able to fix issues later...
Okay, I shall push it tomorrow with the changes in my project. -- James Ogley (riggwelter) openSUSE Member GNOME Team and Planet SUSE e: riggwelter@opensuse.org w: http://opensuse.org/GNOME t: @riggwelter w: http://www.planetsuse.org openSUSE: Get It, Discover It, Create It at http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Okay, I shall push it tomorrow with the changes in my project.
Update: pending some dependencies I don't have permission to submit requests for... -- James Ogley (riggwelter) openSUSE Member GNOME Team and Planet SUSE e: riggwelter@opensuse.org w: http://opensuse.org/GNOME t: @riggwelter w: http://www.planetsuse.org openSUSE: Get It, Discover It, Create It at http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Le mercredi 12 août 2009, à 18:10 +0100, James Ogley a écrit :
Okay, I shall push it tomorrow with the changes in my project.
Update: pending some dependencies I don't have permission to submit requests for...
Which ones? Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Which ones?
I think only python-distutils-extra - I've email jfunk to ask for it to be pushed. -- James Ogley (riggwelter) openSUSE Member GNOME Team and Planet SUSE e: riggwelter@opensuse.org w: http://opensuse.org/GNOME t: @riggwelter w: http://www.planetsuse.org openSUSE: Get It, Discover It, Create It at http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
Bjørn Lie -
Bryen M Yunashko -
Charles Kerr -
Christian Jäger -
James Ogley -
Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy -
Odd-rationale -
Vincent Untz