[opensuse-gnome] GNOME Desktop: Why diversity on the "BLACK" tones
Hi, I Noticed in the past and currently that GNOME is generally representing a "less dark" BLACK than KDE, when showing black text on the screen. Tonite I noticed other little detail: under GNOME 3.0.2 Desktop, Evolution is showing a TXT composed email as light-black/gray tone, while an HTML composed email appears with a better, brilliant, darker black. Wonder why this happens and if exists a way to set a "super dark" black, independently of the type of the desktop environment/application. Please see the attached pictures, to better understand what I mean: Evolution under GNOME 3.0.2 HTML Rendering: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amdturion/6074882873/sizes/l/in/photostream/ Evolution under GNOME 3.0.2 TXT Rendering: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amdturion/6074882749/sizes/l/in/photostream/ Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 11.4 Celadon - Linux 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop x86_64 AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology MK-36 - GeForce Go 6150 Gnome 3.0.2 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 23:55 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
under GNOME 3.0.2 Desktop, Evolution is showing a TXT composed email as light-black/gray tone, while an HTML composed email appears with a better, brilliant, darker black.
They are both black. What makes the "plain text" one look lighter is a combination of things: * Hinting, antialiasing, and all the parameters of font rendering. * Gamma used for antialiasing. This is a *deep* rathole - if you start looking into it, expect to get drawn in as in a black hole, with little chance of ever coming back ;) (If you configure Evolution to use a larger font, you'll see that it is indeed black.) Federico -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno mer, 24/08/2011 alle 17.51 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero ha scritto:
On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 23:55 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
under GNOME 3.0.2 Desktop, Evolution is showing a TXT composed email as light-black/gray tone, while an HTML composed email appears with a better, brilliant, darker black.
They are both black. What makes the "plain text" one look lighter is a combination of things:
* Hinting, antialiasing, and all the parameters of font rendering.
* Gamma used for antialiasing.
This is a *deep* rathole - if you start looking into it, expect to get drawn in as in a black hole, with little chance of ever coming back ;)
(If you configure Evolution to use a larger font, you'll see that it is indeed black.)
Federico
Federico, Thanks for your explanation. However it seems that this behaviour being affecting just GNOME. IIRC, under KDE for example, I see always the "same black". I will give a try by setting larger font on Evolution (I'm curious) Regards, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 11.4 Celadon - Linux 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop x86_64 AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology MK-36 - GeForce Go 6150 Gnome 3.0.2 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 22:20 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
Thanks for your explanation. However it seems that this behaviour being affecting just GNOME.
IIRC, under KDE for example, I see always the "same black".
Before you change the font in Evolution, can you try getting some screenshots of it running under KDE and GNOME, for both types of messages (HTML and plain text)? Maybe each desktop's defaults for font rendering are different. (We *do* have a few problems with font rendering in GNOME, due to the way our Freetype/fontconfig packages are set up - last time I looked, the RGB subpixel smoothing parameters were not taking effect. See https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=566125 for a high-level overview of this. For the low-level, complicated details, see the old bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=104365 - I'm not convinced that it is fully fixed yet. Federico -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Federico Mena Quintero ha scritto:
On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 22:20 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
Thanks for your explanation. However it seems that this behaviour being affecting just GNOME.
IIRC, under KDE for example, I see always the "same black". Before you change the font in Evolution, can you try getting some screenshots of it running under KDE and GNOME, for both types of messages (HTML and plain text)? Maybe each desktop's defaults for font rendering are different.
(We *do* have a few problems with font rendering in GNOME, due to the way our Freetype/fontconfig packages are set up - last time I looked, the RGB subpixel smoothing parameters were not taking effect. See https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=566125 for a high-level overview of this.
For the low-level, complicated details, see the old bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=104365 - I'm not convinced that it is fully fixed yet.
Federico
Federico, I will provide such KDE screen-shots, but I can anticipate you that there the BLACK is really BLACK :-) Cheers, -- Marco Calistri If God had meant for us to be naked, we'd have been born that way. -- Mark Twain -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno gio, 25/08/2011 alle 10.01 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero ha scritto:
On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 22:20 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
Thanks for your explanation. However it seems that this behaviour being affecting just GNOME.
IIRC, under KDE for example, I see always the "same black".
Before you change the font in Evolution, can you try getting some screenshots of it running under KDE and GNOME, for both types of messages (HTML and plain text)? Maybe each desktop's defaults for font rendering are different.
(We *do* have a few problems with font rendering in GNOME, due to the way our Freetype/fontconfig packages are set up - last time I looked, the RGB subpixel smoothing parameters were not taking effect. See https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=566125 for a high-level overview of this.
For the low-level, complicated details, see the old bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=104365 - I'm not convinced that it is fully fixed yet.
Federico
Hi Federico, Really also under KDE is possible to appreciate a slight difference between Black tones: HTML message composing appears a bit darker and brilliant than TXT one. BTW, IMO under KDE the difference is minor than GNOME: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6081964041_f54b3e40ff_b.jpg (TXT) http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6191/6081963987_b1665c6b33_b.jpg (HTML) Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 11.4 Celadon - Linux 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop x86_64 AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology MK-36 - GeForce Go 6150 Gnome 3.0.2 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno ven, 26/08/2011 alle 08.26 -0300, Marco Calistri ha scritto:
Il giorno gio, 25/08/2011 alle 10.01 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero ha scritto:
On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 22:20 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
Thanks for your explanation. However it seems that this behaviour being affecting just GNOME.
IIRC, under KDE for example, I see always the "same black".
Before you change the font in Evolution, can you try getting some screenshots of it running under KDE and GNOME, for both types of messages (HTML and plain text)? Maybe each desktop's defaults for font rendering are different.
(We *do* have a few problems with font rendering in GNOME, due to the way our Freetype/fontconfig packages are set up - last time I looked, the RGB subpixel smoothing parameters were not taking effect. See https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=566125 for a high-level overview of this.
For the low-level, complicated details, see the old bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=104365 - I'm not convinced that it is fully fixed yet.
Federico
Hi Federico,
Really also under KDE is possible to appreciate a slight difference between Black tones: HTML message composing appears a bit darker and brilliant than TXT one.
BTW, IMO under KDE the difference is minor than GNOME:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6081964041_f54b3e40ff_b.jpg (TXT)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6191/6081963987_b1665c6b33_b.jpg (HTML)
Cheers,
-- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 11.4 Celadon - Linux 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop x86_64 AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology MK-36 - GeForce Go 6150 Gnome 3.0.2
Federico, LXDE is not affected by hinting/antialasing, here the black is as it should be! Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 11.4 Celadon - Linux 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop x86_64 AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology MK-36 - GeForce Go 6150 Gnome 3.0.2 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 08:26 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
Really also under KDE is possible to appreciate a slight difference between Black tones: HTML message composing appears a bit darker and brilliant than TXT one.
BTW, IMO under KDE the difference is minor than GNOME:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6081964041_f54b3e40ff_b.jpg (TXT)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6191/6081963987_b1665c6b33_b.jpg (HTML) .. LXDE is not affected by hinting/antialasing, here the black is as it should be!
Hmm. So we still have the bug where the font rendering options are different in Gnome and KDE. Sorry that I don't have a good solution right now; this is a big topic that needs investigation. Federico -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Federico Mena Quintero ha scritto:
On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 08:26 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
Really also under KDE is possible to appreciate a slight difference between Black tones: HTML message composing appears a bit darker and brilliant than TXT one.
BTW, IMO under KDE the difference is minor than GNOME:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6081964041_f54b3e40ff_b.jpg (TXT)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6191/6081963987_b1665c6b33_b.jpg (HTML) .. LXDE is not affected by hinting/antialasing, here the black is as it should be! Hmm. So we still have the bug where the font rendering options are different in Gnome and KDE.
Sorry that I don't have a good solution right now; this is a big topic that needs investigation.
Federico
Ok Federico, I think the "Team" will be able to find a solution soon. In the meanwhile let me wish good job to all. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri When you say 'I wrote a program that crashed Windows', people just stare at you blankly and say 'Hey, I got those with the system, *for free*'. -- Linus Torvalds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
ma., 29.08.2011 kl. 17.22 -0300, skrev Marco Calistri:
Federico Mena Quintero ha scritto:
On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 08:26 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
Really also under KDE is possible to appreciate a slight difference between Black tones: HTML message composing appears a bit darker and brilliant than TXT one.
BTW, IMO under KDE the difference is minor than GNOME:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6081964041_f54b3e40ff_b.jpg (TXT)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6191/6081963987_b1665c6b33_b.jpg (HTML) .. LXDE is not affected by hinting/antialasing, here the black is as it should be! Hmm. So we still have the bug where the font rendering options are different in Gnome and KDE.
snip
Marco; are you using a freetype2 package that have subpixelpatch enabled? If not, try to rebuild it with that patch enabled, and let me know if that makes the black more to your liking. //Bjørn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 18:24:34 +0200 Bjørn Lie <bjorn.lie@gmail.com> wrote:
ma., 29.08.2011 kl. 17.22 -0300, skrev Marco Calistri:
Federico Mena Quintero ha scritto:
On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 08:26 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
Really also under KDE is possible to appreciate a slight difference between Black tones: HTML message composing appears a bit darker and brilliant than TXT one.
BTW, IMO under KDE the difference is minor than GNOME:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6081964041_f54b3e40ff_b.jpg (TXT)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6191/6081963987_b1665c6b33_b.jpg (HTML) .. LXDE is not affected by hinting/antialasing, here the black is as it should be! Hmm. So we still have the bug where the font rendering options are different in Gnome and KDE.
snip
Marco; are you using a freetype2 package that have subpixelpatch enabled?
If not, try to rebuild it with that patch enabled, and let me know if that makes the black more to your liking.
//Bjørn
I use the Subpixel ones from here; http://pmbs.links2linux.org/download/Subpixel/openSUSE_11.4/ -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop up 1 day 23:47, 4 users, load average: 0.09, 0.13, 0.15 GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 280.13 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Thu 01 Sep 2011 at 13:27:26 (-0300 UTC), Malcolm wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 18:24:34 +0200 Bjørn Lie <bjorn.lie@gmail.com> wrote:
ma., 29.08.2011 kl. 17.22 -0300, skrev Marco Calistri:
Federico Mena Quintero ha scritto:
On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 08:26 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
Really also under KDE is possible to appreciate a slight difference between Black tones: HTML message composing appears a bit darker and brilliant than TXT one.
BTW, IMO under KDE the difference is minor than GNOME:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6081964041_f54b3e40ff_b.jpg (TXT)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6191/6081963987_b1665c6b33_b.jpg (HTML) .. LXDE is not affected by hinting/antialasing, here the black is as it should be! Hmm. So we still have the bug where the font rendering options are different in Gnome and KDE.
snip
Marco; are you using a freetype2 package that have subpixelpatch enabled?
If not, try to rebuild it with that patch enabled, and let me know if that makes the black more to your liking.
//Bjørn
I use the Subpixel ones from here; http://pmbs.links2linux.org/download/Subpixel/openSUSE_11.4/
And which differences we could expect among the above repository and these ones below?: 1) http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/muzlocker/openSUSE_11.4/ 2) http://repos.opensuse-community.org/subpixel/openSUSE_11.4/ ??? Are the related packages in sync or they differ so they are leading to a different desktop behaviour? Thanks. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri <amdturion> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Thu 01 Sep 2011 at 13:24:34 (-0300 UTC) Bjørn Lie wrote:
ma., 29.08.2011 kl. 17.22 -0300, skrev Marco Calistri:
Federico Mena Quintero ha scritto:
On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 08:26 -0300, Marco Calistri wrote:
Really also under KDE is possible to appreciate a slight difference between Black tones: HTML message composing appears a bit darker and brilliant than TXT one.
BTW, IMO under KDE the difference is minor than GNOME:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6081964041_f54b3e40ff_b.jpg (TXT)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6191/6081963987_b1665c6b33_b.jpg (HTML) .. LXDE is not affected by hinting/antialasing, here the black is as it should be! Hmm. So we still have the bug where the font rendering options are different in Gnome and KDE.
snip
Marco; are you using a freetype2 package that have subpixelpatch enabled?
If not, try to rebuild it with that patch enabled, and let me know if that makes the black more to your liking.
//Bjørn
Hello Bjorn, I'm currently using the subpixel repository from: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/muzlocker/openSUSE_11.4/ subpixel Yesterday I was reading an article on this topic: http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ#Subpixel_Hinting and then I modified my /etc/fonts/conf.d as follows: sudo ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/10-autohint.conf /etc/fonts/conf.d/ After adding this symbolic link, I noticed immediately that my desktop look&feel changed considerably, but at the moment I cannot say if the problem was resolved. I think now the black appears more brilliant. Thanks for your feedback! Cheers, -- Marco Calistri In America any boy may become President and I suppose it's just one of the risks he takes. -- Adlai Stevenson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Bjørn Lie -
Federico Mena Quintero -
Malcolm -
Marco Calistri