[opensuse-gnome] Tomboy vs Gnote
Hi. I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roughly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote? [1] http://live.gnome.org/Gnote [2] http://trmanco.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gnote.png -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 22:10 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
Hi.
I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roughly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote?
[1] http://live.gnome.org/Gnote [2] http://trmanco.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gnote.png
--
I for one see no reason to replace something that works brilliantly. Tomboy is very well featured and is under constant improvement. If you feel it is badly performing then please file a bug about it. I'm kind of getting a bit fed up with this constant "replace existing mono app with non-mono". I'll be completely honest here, I LOVE all the mono apps out there, I have had absolutely no problems with any of them, and the devs are very approachable and helpful. Rather than look at replacing something that still leads the pack with something less featured, let's try and improve it. File bugs, test releases etc. Ratislav, sorry if this seems aggressive but in all honesty what's the point? Something as trivial and fixable as memory consumption is by no means a reason to replace. Sandy and the other Tomboy devs put a crap load of time and effort into the product, and it works brilliantly across all seven of my machines. I can even remotely sync my Tomboy notes across all machines and my mobile phones. Please let's be rationale about this and look at improving rather than just abandoning. Do that will make the product better, and show we have a spine and soul for the whole open source game. We need to innovate again, not become a sheep and follow others. We introduced Tomboy and by golly we should stand by it!! Again apologies if this comes across as hot headed but enough is enough. Regards, Andy -- Andrew Wafaa IRC: FunkyPenguin. PGP: 0x3A36312F openSUSE: Get It, Discover It, Create It at http://www.opensuse.org
On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 21:35 +0100, Andrew Wafaa wrote:
On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 22:10 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
Hi.
I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roghly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote? [1] http://live.gnome.org/Gnote [2] http://trmanco.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gnote.png I for one see no reason to replace something that works brilliantly. Tomboy is very well featured and is under constant improvement. If you feel it is badly performing then please file a bug about it.
+1 Tomboy is full-featured, stable, and fast.
I'm kind of getting a bit fed up with this constant "replace existing mono app with non-mono". I'll be completely honest here, I LOVE all the mono apps out there, I have had absolutely no problems with any of them, and the devs are very approachable and helpful.
+1
Rather than look at replacing something that still leads the pack with something less featured, let's try and improve it. File bugs, test releases etc.
+1
Ratislav, sorry if this seems aggressive but in all honesty what's the point? Something as trivial and fixable as memory consumption is by no means a reason to replace.
This assumes the memory consumption arguements are legitimate [I doubt them]. How is the memory consumption being measured? Measuring real memory consumption on a modern OS is much harder than just looking at "top". Also, a real comparison measures memory consumption against features. If app X uses three times as much memory as app Y, but app X has 10x the features... then, honestly, saying X uses 3x more than Y is false because the unspoken clause is "to do the same thing".
Sandy and the other Tomboy devs put a crap load of time and effort into the product, and it works brilliantly across all seven of my machines. I can even remotely sync my Tomboy notes across all machines and my mobile phones.
Please let's be rationale about this and look at improving rather than just abandoning. Do that will make the product better, and show we have a spine and soul for the whole open source game. We need to innovate again, not become a sheep and follow others. We introduced Tomboy and by golly we should stand by it!!
-- Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com> OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Wafaa [mailto:andrew.wafaa@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Wafaa Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:35 PM To: opensuse-gnome@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-gnome] Tomboy vs Gnote
On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 22:10 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
Hi.
I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roughly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote?
[1] http://live.gnome.org/Gnote [2] http://trmanco.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gnote.png
--
I for one see no reason to replace something that works brilliantly. Tomboy is very well featured and is under constant improvement. If you feel it is badly performing then please file a bug about it.
I'm kind of getting a bit fed up with this constant "replace existing mono app with non-mono". I'll be completely honest here, I LOVE all the mono apps out there, I have had absolutely no problems with any of them, and the devs are very approachable and helpful.
Rather than look at replacing something that still leads the pack with something less featured, let's try and improve it. File bugs, test releases etc.
Lacking some features is a true. So i´m just wondering so why Fedora replaced Tomboy by Gnote? [1] [1] http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-desktop/2009-04/msg00006.html
Ratislav, sorry if this seems aggressive but in all honesty what's the point?
Don´t worry, we´re just discussing :-)
Something as trivial and fixable as memory consumption is by no means a reason to replace.
I´m not sure whether memory consumption is a bug and it makes sense to file a bug against memory consumption. Isn´t it caused by mono? Is any chance to reduce memory consumption? I´d really appreciate it on my old notebook (CPU 1,4 GHz Celeron and 768GB RAM). That´s the point in my case. -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 07:44 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Wafaa [mailto:andrew.wafaa@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Wafaa Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:35 PM To: opensuse-gnome@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-gnome] Tomboy vs Gnote
On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 22:10 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
Hi.
I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roughly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote?
[1] http://live.gnome.org/Gnote [2] http://trmanco.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gnote.png
--
I for one see no reason to replace something that works brilliantly. Tomboy is very well featured and is under constant improvement. If you feel it is badly performing then please file a bug about it.
I'm kind of getting a bit fed up with this constant "replace existing mono app with non-mono". I'll be completely honest here, I LOVE all the mono apps out there, I have had absolutely no problems with any of them, and the devs are very approachable and helpful.
Rather than look at replacing something that still leads the pack with something less featured, let's try and improve it. File bugs, test releases etc.
Lacking some features is a true. So i´m just wondering so why Fedora replaced Tomboy by Gnote? [1]
[1] http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-desktop/2009-04/msg00006.html
That's an easy one to answer: Fedora are very much against Mono due to patent fears. They use Shotwell instead of f-spot too for the same reason. They have spent a lot of time & effort in re-writing apps that already exist.
Ratislav, sorry if this seems aggressive but in all honesty what's the point?
Don´t worry, we´re just discussing :-)
Phew I'm glad it didn't come across the wrong way ;-)
Something as trivial and fixable as memory consumption is by no means a reason to replace.
I´m not sure whether memory consumption is a bug and it makes sense to file a bug against memory consumption. Isn´t it caused by mono? Is any chance to reduce memory consumption? I´d really appreciate it on my old notebook (CPU 1,4 GHz Celeron and 768GB RAM). That´s the point in my case.
I would most certainly say it is a case for a bug. The developers may however disagree, but they will hopefully explain the limitations. There are cases when some apps aren't suitable and you may have to use others; but in general we try and provide as full a featured experience as possible. That often means using mono apps as they are the best for function/form/etc. Regards, Andy -- Andrew Wafaa IRC: FunkyPenguin. PGP: 0x3A36312F openSUSE: Get It, Discover It, Create It at http://www.opensuse.org
2010/5/27 Andrew Wafaa <awafaa@opensuse.org>:
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 07:44 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Wafaa [mailto:andrew.wafaa@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Wafaa Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:35 PM To: opensuse-gnome@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-gnome] Tomboy vs Gnote
On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 22:10 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
Hi.
I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roughly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote?
[1] http://live.gnome.org/Gnote [2] http://trmanco.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gnote.png
--
I for one see no reason to replace something that works brilliantly. Tomboy is very well featured and is under constant improvement. If you feel it is badly performing then please file a bug about it.
I'm kind of getting a bit fed up with this constant "replace existing mono app with non-mono". I'll be completely honest here, I LOVE all the mono apps out there, I have had absolutely no problems with any of them, and the devs are very approachable and helpful.
Rather than look at replacing something that still leads the pack with something less featured, let's try and improve it. File bugs, test releases etc.
Lacking some features is a true. So i´m just wondering so why Fedora replaced Tomboy by Gnote? [1]
[1] http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-desktop/2009-04/msg00006.html
That's an easy one to answer: Fedora are very much against Mono due to patent fears. They use Shotwell instead of f-spot too for the same reason. They have spent a lot of time & effort in re-writing apps that already exist.
Isn't there *some* element to this fear of a Mono patent trap, even after the Microsoft Community Promise? It was said by the Mono team that the Mono code will be broken up into encumbered (Winforms etc) and non-encumbered parts (C# etc). Does F-Spot, Tomboy or Banshee cover the encumbered parts? Just discussing... Regards Anshul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On 5/27/2010 at 12:29 PM, in message <AANLkTinhgX4OPqclcUgMlMVkNjJAEPAIRwN4YUG1bJvC@mail.gmail.com>, Anshul Jain <anshulajain@gmail.com> wrote: 2010/5/27 Andrew Wafaa <awafaa@opensuse.org>: On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 07:44 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Wafaa [mailto:andrew.wafaa@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Wafaa Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:35 PM To: opensuse-gnome@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-gnome] Tomboy vs Gnote
On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 22:10 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
Hi.
I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roughly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote?
[1] http://live.gnome.org/Gnote [2] http://trmanco.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gnote.png
--
I for one see no reason to replace something that works brilliantly. Tomboy is very well featured and is under constant improvement. If you feel it is badly performing then please file a bug about it.
I'm kind of getting a bit fed up with this constant "replace existing mono app with non-mono". I'll be completely honest here, I LOVE all the mono apps out there, I have had absolutely no problems with any of them, and the devs are very approachable and helpful.
Rather than look at replacing something that still leads the pack with something less featured, let's try and improve it. File bugs, test releases etc.
Lacking some features is a true. So i´m just wondering so why Fedora replaced Tomboy by Gnote? [1]
[1] http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-desktop/2009-04/msg00006.html
That's an easy one to answer: Fedora are very much against Mono due to patent fears. They use Shotwell instead of f-spot too for the same reason. They have spent a lot of time & effort in re-writing apps that already exist.
Isn't there *some* element to this fear of a Mono patent trap, even after the Microsoft Community Promise? It was said by the Mono team that the Mono code will be broken up into encumbered (Winforms etc) and non-encumbered parts (C# etc). Does F-Spot, Tomboy or Banshee cover the encumbered parts?
Just discussing...
Disclaimer1: IANAL Disclaimer2: I dont represent my employer's view Even if you consider that on a hypothetical scenario, mono infringes on some microsoft patents, microsoft wont be bothered to sue either some innocent home user or the openSUSE project. Mono-Patents-violation should be of zero botheration for openSUSE imo. Personally I prefer 'vi ~/Desktop/todo' than anything else, but I have seen so many people using Tomboy and would any day prefer to ship a seriously-developed, enterprise-backed, project than a hobby, experimental project to see how to migrate C# app. to cpp. http://www.figuiere.net/hub/blog/?2009/07/27/680-why-i-did-write-gnote Sankar -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Sankar P <psankar@novell.com> wrote:
On 5/27/2010 at 12:29 PM, in message <AANLkTinhgX4OPqclcUgMlMVkNjJAEPAIRwN4YUG1bJvC@mail.gmail.com>, Anshul Jain <anshulajain@gmail.com> wrote: 2010/5/27 Andrew Wafaa <awafaa@opensuse.org>: On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 07:44 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Wafaa [mailto:andrew.wafaa@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Wafaa Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:35 PM To: opensuse-gnome@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-gnome] Tomboy vs Gnote
On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 22:10 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
Hi.
I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roughly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote?
[1] http://live.gnome.org/Gnote [2] http://trmanco.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gnote.png
--
I for one see no reason to replace something that works brilliantly. Tomboy is very well featured and is under constant improvement. If you feel it is badly performing then please file a bug about it.
I'm kind of getting a bit fed up with this constant "replace existing mono app with non-mono". I'll be completely honest here, I LOVE all the mono apps out there, I have had absolutely no problems with any of them, and the devs are very approachable and helpful.
Rather than look at replacing something that still leads the pack with something less featured, let's try and improve it. File bugs, test releases etc.
Lacking some features is a true. So i´m just wondering so why Fedora replaced Tomboy by Gnote? [1]
[1] http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-desktop/2009-04/msg00006.html
That's an easy one to answer: Fedora are very much against Mono due to patent fears. They use Shotwell instead of f-spot too for the same reason. They have spent a lot of time & effort in re-writing apps that already exist.
Isn't there *some* element to this fear of a Mono patent trap, even after the Microsoft Community Promise? It was said by the Mono team that the Mono code will be broken up into encumbered (Winforms etc) and non-encumbered parts (C# etc). Does F-Spot, Tomboy or Banshee cover the encumbered parts?
Just discussing...
Disclaimer1: IANAL Disclaimer2: I dont represent my employer's view
Even if you consider that on a hypothetical scenario, mono infringes on some microsoft patents, microsoft wont be bothered to sue either some innocent home user or the openSUSE project. Mono-Patents-violation should be of zero botheration for openSUSE imo.
Personally I prefer 'vi ~/Desktop/todo' than anything else, but I have seen so many people using Tomboy and would any day prefer to ship a seriously-developed, enterprise-backed, project than a hobby, experimental project to see how to migrate C# app. to cpp.
http://www.figuiere.net/hub/blog/?2009/07/27/680-why-i-did-write-gnote
Sankar
+1 to your point on MS not going after openSUSE end users like me. Besides, software patents do not apply in my country...so I'm safe. I only brought up the patent infringement stuff when the earlier poster talked about how RH/Fedora avoids Mono due to legal concerns. RH is a pretty big target for a patent infringement lawsuit, as is Novell. But we know that Novell will not be sued. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 12:29 +0530, Anshul Jain wrote:
2010/5/27 Andrew Wafaa <awafaa@opensuse.org>:
Rather than look at replacing something that still leads the pack with something less featured, let's try and improve it. File bugs, test releases etc. Lacking some features is a true. So i´m just wondering so why Fedora replaced Tomboy by Gnote? [1] [1] http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-desktop/2009-04/msg00006.html That's an easy one to answer: Fedora are very much against Mono due to
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 07:44 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský wrote: patent fears. They use Shotwell instead of f-spot too for the same reason. They have spent a lot of time & effort in re-writing apps that already exist. Isn't there *some* element to this fear of a Mono patent trap,
No, it is 100% crap; it is just peddled by those with a fundamental misunderstanding of the issues of software patents. <http://www.jprl.com/Blog/archive/development/mono/2009/Jan-19.html> <quote>I find even "funnier" is that Microsoft supposedly holds a number of patents in a number of areas frequently used by open-source projects, such as HTML, CSS, C++, XML, and others. So why don't we ever see any suggestions to avoid these technologies because the Big Bad Microsoft might sue? For that matter, (again) considering how vague software patents tend to be, wouldn't many Microsoft patents on .NET stand a chance at being applicable toward Java, Python, and other projects? (Again) Why just focus on Mono?</quote> This issue [against Mono specifically] is complete, total, and absolute trumpery and should be put down once and for all with no tolerance for further foolishness. Maybe we can stop if from clogging up the blogosphere and hindering Open Source? And isn't it plain enough that companies that HAVE LAWYERS don't seem hesitant at all about using Mono? (Novell, IBM, Cannonical, Unity, Electronic Arts, MedSphere, and others...) Some of those companies have *lots* of lawyers and even to intellectual property surveys as a regular part of life. If someone is simply anti-Microsoft - fine; they should just come out of the closet and declare that. Not stand behind the banner of software patents and shout down everything Mono related.
Just discussing...
If one is that afraid of the specter of software patents then the only valid discussion is whether or not to use a computer at all. -- Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com> OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Wafaa [mailto:andrew.wafaa@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Wafaa Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:57 AM To: Rastislav Krupanský Cc: opensuse-gnome@opensuse.org Subject: RE: [opensuse-gnome] Tomboy vs Gnote
I´m not sure whether memory consumption is a bug and it makes sense to
file a bug against memory consumption. Isn´t it caused by mono? Is any chance to reduce memory consumption? I´d really appreciate it on my old notebook (CPU 1,4 GHz Celeron and 768GB RAM). That´s the point in my case.
I would most certainly say it is a case for a bug. The developers may however disagree, but they will hopefully explain the limitations. There are cases when some apps aren't suitable and you may have to use others; but in general we try and provide as full a featured experience as possible. That often means using mono apps as they are the best for function/form/etc.
Regards,
Andy
So just for info, the bug is already filed to track - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=565790 Hope, it will be fixed as soon as possible. -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
2010/5/26 Rastislav Krupanský <rastislav.krupansky@gmail.com>:
Hi.
I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roughly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote?
[1] http://live.gnome.org/Gnote [2] http://trmanco.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gnote.png
This is nothing more than trendy. I wish people would put this same interest and energy over a small 10MB of memory into making xorg and firefox far more efficient. When does 10MB have a larger significance than the 1G that firefox uses? Cheers, Stephen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Le mercredi 26 mai 2010, à 22:10 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský a écrit :
Hi.
I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roughly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote?
Ignoring the other part of the thread which discusses the merits of changing the default. If we want gnote available, then maybe the first step would be to push the package to Factory (or Contrib right now, since Factory is frozen). Do you want to work on that? :-) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Vincent Untz <vuntz@opensuse.org> wrote:
Le mercredi 26 mai 2010, à 22:10 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský a écrit :
Hi.
I´m just wanna ask, why we have Tomboy when it consumes roughly three times what Gnote[1] requires in terms of memory[2] and it´s slower than Gnote? What about start thinking about replacing Tomboy by Gnote?
Ignoring the other part of the thread which discusses the merits of changing the default. If we want gnote available, then maybe the first step would be to push the package to Factory (or Contrib right now, since Factory is frozen). Do you want to work on that? :-)
Vincent
-- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
I have Gnote packaged in my OBS, maybe I could give it a shot -:) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Andrew Wafaa -
Anshul Jain -
Rastislav Krupanský -
Sankar P -
Stephen Shaw -
Vincent Untz