[opensuse-gnome] Topic for Thursday's Meeting
So some of us were just chatting a while ago in IRC and I think this is a subject that should open up the first GNOME-Team Meeting of the year. Basically, I'd like to propose we dedicate the meeting to a look back to the past year and what new goals we can set forth for the coming year. Personally, I feel that we're not the same as we were a year ago. We seem to engage less, we're less interactive in the channels, and we're definitely not doing much to bring in new blood to help take up the slack. So what do you say, instead of having a formal meeting with agenda for the first one, we have an informal "round table" type meeting focused on the topic of making 2009-oh-so-fine! -- Bryen Yunashko openSUSE Board Member -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 20:43 -0600, Bryen wrote:
So some of us were just chatting a while ago in IRC and I think this is a subject that should open up the first GNOME-Team Meeting of the year.
Basically, I'd like to propose we dedicate the meeting to a look back to the past year and what new goals we can set forth for the coming year. Personally, I feel that we're not the same as we were a year ago. We seem to engage less, we're less interactive in the channels, and we're definitely not doing much to bring in new blood to help take up the slack.
Overall, I think that our Paid Developers are interacting much less now than what happened a year ago, which I think is bad. I'm not sure if there some evil plan behind it to make us community members be more involved, if our developers feel bored interacting with us little people, if they are too busy with SLE development or what... One would wish for the devs to enjoy hanging out with us, help out when needed etc, but since I don't know what happened, I can't make a suggestion on how to get them back...
So what do you say, instead of having a formal meeting with agenda for the first one, we have an informal "round table" type meeting focused on the topic of making 2009-oh-so-fine!
Well, I don't think the next meeting is a timeshift meeting so I can't participate. I wish you the very best in coming up with some sort of solution though. Cheers, Magnus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 13:56 +1100, Magnus Boman wrote:
On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 20:43 -0600, Bryen wrote:
So some of us were just chatting a while ago in IRC and I think this is a subject that should open up the first GNOME-Team Meeting of the year.
Basically, I'd like to propose we dedicate the meeting to a look back to the past year and what new goals we can set forth for the coming year. Personally, I feel that we're not the same as we were a year ago. We seem to engage less, we're less interactive in the channels, and we're definitely not doing much to bring in new blood to help take up the slack.
Overall, I think that our Paid Developers are interacting much less now than what happened a year ago, which I think is bad. I'm not sure if there some evil plan behind it to make us community members be more involved, if our developers feel bored interacting with us little people, if they are too busy with SLE development or what... One would wish for the devs to enjoy hanging out with us, help out when needed etc, but since I don't know what happened, I can't make a suggestion on how to get them back...
So what do you say, instead of having a formal meeting with agenda for the first one, we have an informal "round table" type meeting focused on the topic of making 2009-oh-so-fine!
Well, I don't think the next meeting is a timeshift meeting so I can't participate. I wish you the very best in coming up with some sort of solution though.
Actually, you're right. This week is a time-shifted meeting and in fact our new time-shifted meeting is 22:00 UTC that we all agreed upon several months ago. But the drawback is that even fewer of the paid devs show up at these meetings than the regular meetings, even though they voted for the new time-shift as well so they would not have to get up pre-dawn.
-- Bryen Yunashko openSUSE Board Member -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Le mardi 06 janvier 2009, à 13:56 +1100, Magnus Boman a écrit :
Overall, I think that our Paid Developers are interacting much less now than what happened a year ago, which I think is bad. I'm not sure if there some evil plan behind it to make us community members be more involved, if our developers feel bored interacting with us little people, if they are too busy with SLE development or what... One would wish for the devs to enjoy hanging out with us, help out when needed etc, but since I don't know what happened, I can't make a suggestion on how to get them back...
I have no good explanation for that. I definitely miss the weekly meetings. Although I would agree the last few weekly meetings where we always had the same topics were bad, the "real good" weekly meetings were useful to create this link on the channel. I'm not sure where I heard the idea (I think it was Rodrigo), but it sounded good: if we don't have a topic to discuss at a meeting, then let's still use this time to do something like bug triaging, or helping people package stuff, or... (but maybe I'm wrong, and this is has nothing to do with the problem) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 12:26 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le mardi 06 janvier 2009, à 13:56 +1100, Magnus Boman a écrit :
Overall, I think that our Paid Developers are interacting much less now than what happened a year ago, which I think is bad. I'm not sure if there some evil plan behind it to make us community members be more involved, if our developers feel bored interacting with us little people, if they are too busy with SLE development or what... One would wish for the devs to enjoy hanging out with us, help out when needed etc, but since I don't know what happened, I can't make a suggestion on how to get them back...
I have no good explanation for that. I definitely miss the weekly meetings. Although I would agree the last few weekly meetings where we always had the same topics were bad, the "real good" weekly meetings were useful to create this link on the channel.
It's likely one part of the problem and to be honest, personally, I miss participating in every meeting we have, but doing so at 4-5am in the morning is a not doable for me anymore :-(
I'm not sure where I heard the idea (I think it was Rodrigo), but it sounded good: if we don't have a topic to discuss at a meeting, then let's still use this time to do something like bug triaging, or helping people package stuff, or...
Good point. We always used to come up with stuff like that and have them organized. Cheers, Magnus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 12:26 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le mardi 06 janvier 2009, à 13:56 +1100, Magnus Boman a écrit :
Overall, I think that our Paid Developers are interacting much less now than what happened a year ago, which I think is bad. I'm not sure if there some evil plan behind it to make us community members be more involved, if our developers feel bored interacting with us little people, if they are too busy with SLE development or what... One would wish for the devs to enjoy hanging out with us, help out when needed etc, but since I don't know what happened, I can't make a suggestion on how to get them back...
I have no good explanation for that. I definitely miss the weekly meetings. Although I would agree the last few weekly meetings where we always had the same topics were bad, the "real good" weekly meetings were useful to create this link on the channel.
I'm not sure where I heard the idea (I think it was Rodrigo), but it sounded good: if we don't have a topic to discuss at a meeting, then let's still use this time to do something like bug triaging, or helping people package stuff, or...
yeah, it was me :) Indeed I think we should use the weekly time for meetings for all this stuff. Thus, people know that every Thursday there is a chance to volunteer for something. We could have normal meetings every 2 weeks and the other 2 use the time slot (or a bigger slot) for bug triaging, patch upstreaming, etc But what I think we really need is to create some sort of "teams". That is a bug triaging team dedicated to organise the bug triaging, a patch upstreaming team, etc. All those with a couple of people responsible for getting the work done, creating pages on the wiki with information, driving the bug/patch/etc days, etc. If we get these to be ongoing projects, rather than just once in a while, it should be easier and more productive to manage. -- Rodrigo Moya <rodrigo@novell.com> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Overall, I think that our Paid Developers are interacting much less now than what happened a year ago, which I think is bad.
I beg to differ, I also feel that a lot of our Un-Paid Developers are interacting less now (me included). When the development for 11.0 started is when I think the GNOME channel was at its best; we had bugs being filed left right and centre, bugs being fixed at a rate of knots, Paid and Un-Paid people joining the fray and generally the GNOME channel was a hive of fun and activity. So why has it all changed? No it has nothing to do with Obama winning the election, but more I feel one of business constraints. The schedule for 11.1 was nuts and I think many people agree, on top of 11.1 we also have SLE11 which is taking up a lot of people's time. Once these are out of the way I hope we can get the great banter back, and also get the level of participation we once had back up there. Back to the subject of the Meting on Thursday, I think the look back and doing a lessons learnt type round table is a good idea. As long as people are honest about their thoughts, and don't take too much offence. Regards, Andy -- Andrew Wafaa, openSUSE Member: FunkyPenguin. openSUSE: Get It, Discover It, Create It at http://www.opensuse.org awafaa@opensuse.org | http://www.wafaa.eu -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 12:08 +0000, Andrew Wafaa wrote:
Overall, I think that our Paid Developers are interacting much less now than what happened a year ago, which I think is bad.
I beg to differ, I also feel that a lot of our Un-Paid Developers are interacting less now (me included).
And where do we disagree? :-) I do agree about the volunteers as well. Not really sure why I only pointed the finger to the paid GNOMEies :-/
When the development for 11.0 started is when I think the GNOME channel was at its best; we had bugs being filed left right and centre, bugs being fixed at a rate of knots, Paid and Un-Paid people joining the fray and generally the GNOME channel was a hive of fun and activity.
Sure was.
So why has it all changed? No it has nothing to do with Obama winning the election, but more I feel one of business constraints. The schedule for 11.1 was nuts and I think many people agree, on top of 11.1 we also have SLE11 which is taking up a lot of people's time. Once these are out of the way I hope we can get the great banter back, and also get the level of participation we once had back up there.
I'm not convinced about the reasons why it changed. I think that we need someone that drives the stuff that we want and need to do. There are many things that fall between the chair way to often (meeting minutes that are not wikified, discussions that never come to a conclusion etc) In short, I feel that we don't have a strong leadership.
Back to the subject of the Meting on Thursday, I think the look back and doing a lessons learnt type round table is a good idea. As long as people are honest about their thoughts, and don't take too much offence.
I would like to think/hope that none of us take this personal. Cheers, Magnus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 23:22 +1100, Magnus Boman wrote:
I'm not convinced about the reasons why it changed. I think that we need someone that drives the stuff that we want and need to do. There are many things that fall between the chair way to often (meeting minutes that are not wikified, discussions that never come to a conclusion etc) In short, I feel that we don't have a strong leadership.
I tend to agree - JP was doing an excellent job bringing everyone together, but he's way overloaded with work these days, and the structure he helped create may be eroding. Other Novell employees are also very busy. IMO the best solution would be to keep the barrier to doing meetings low - i.e. don't insist on agendas, minutes, other wiki updates, etc. As others have mentioned, it might be a good idea to have a "backup" format for the meetings where other productive stuff can be done if there isn't a specific agenda. Something like: * Person A leads meetings, falling back to Person B and then Person C if the former don't show up. If neither A nor B nor C show up, it's ok to elect a leader on the spot on a "sod it, I'll do it" basis. * First ask attendees what they'd like to bring up and make a list. * If anything, go through the items in order. * Sum up action items. * If there's time left, do bug triaging based on a fixed URL or list of URLs. Informal, but easy to maintain. The leader can collect agenda items beforehand if he/she happens to have the time. Minutes are desirable but optional. -- Hans Petter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 13:56 +1100, Magnus Boman wrote:
On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 20:43 -0600, Bryen wrote:
So some of us were just chatting a while ago in IRC and I think this is a subject that should open up the first GNOME-Team Meeting of the year.
Basically, I'd like to propose we dedicate the meeting to a look back to the past year and what new goals we can set forth for the coming year. Personally, I feel that we're not the same as we were a year ago. We seem to engage less, we're less interactive in the channels, and we're definitely not doing much to bring in new blood to help take up the slack.
Overall, I think that our Paid Developers are interacting much less now than what happened a year ago, which I think is bad. I'm not sure if there some evil plan behind it to make us community members be more involved, if our developers feel bored interacting with us little people, if they are too busy with SLE development or what... One would wish for the devs to enjoy hanging out with us, help out when needed etc, but since I don't know what happened, I can't make a suggestion on how to get them back...
I think this is definitely true. SLE 11 features and bug fixing definitely ate up more time than originally thought - the 6 month cycle exerted a lot of pressure in combination with that. -JP -- JP Rosevear <jpr@novell.com> Novell, Inc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Le lundi 05 janvier 2009, à 20:43 -0600, Bryen a écrit :
So what do you say, instead of having a formal meeting with agenda for the first one, we have an informal "round table" type meeting focused on the topic of making 2009-oh-so-fine!
Oh, well, we need to discuss the bug day proposal too (see mail from December 22th) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Andrew Wafaa -
Bryen -
Hans Petter Jansson -
JP Rosevear -
Magnus Boman -
Rodrigo Moya -
Vincent Untz