Magnus Boman escribió:

On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 15:22 -0400, JP Rosevear wrote:

...

We need to (quickly) decide on a defaultCD/DVD burning solution for 10.3. gnome-baker used to be kind of defacto, but brasero seems to be the new hotness. What to people think?

Brasero: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/jproseve/openSUSE_Factory/

gnome-baker: Factory

Brasero looks very nice. As long as it can be integrated with Nautilus so we don't loose the "Write to disc" when right clicking on an ISO I'm OK with it.

Cheers, Magnus

Both are ok, it depends on which one is currently developed. It's looks like brasero has not been updated in a while (http://perso.orange.fr/bonfire/index.htm) Regards. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

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On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 23:13 -0300, Evandro Fernandes Giovanini wrote:

Em Qui, 2007-08-16 às 15:22 -0400, JP Rosevear escreveu:

...

We need to (quickly) decide on a defaultCD/DVD burning solution for 10.3. gnome-baker used to be kind of defacto, but brasero seems to be the new hotness. What to people think?

Brasero: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/jproseve/openSUSE_Factory/

gnome-baker: Factory

Why not just nautilus (for data discs) and Banshee (for audio discs)?

Yes, thats basically what we do now, but we get requests for more complex burning options like are provided with k3b. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, 2007-08-18 at 18:48 -0300, Evandro Fernandes Giovanini wrote:

Em Sex, 2007-08-17 às 08:45 -0400, JP Rosevear escreveu:

...

On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 23:13 -0300, Evandro Fernandes Giovanini wrote:

...

Em Qui, 2007-08-16 às 15:22 -0400, JP Rosevear escreveu:

...

We need to (quickly) decide on a defaultCD/DVD burning solution for 10.3. gnome-baker used to be kind of defacto, but brasero seems to be the new hotness. What to people think?

Brasero: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/jproseve/openSUSE_Factory/

gnome-baker: Factory

Why not just nautilus (for data discs) and Banshee (for audio discs)?

Yes, thats basically what we do now, but we get requests for more complex burning options like are provided with k3b.

Well, Brasero and gnome-baker (and k3b as well) should be available to people that need complex options. I just don't think it should be the default for everyone.

I'm afraid having one of these applications installed might "mislead" users to try them before the simpler options. Even my mom and dad can burn discs as it is now, but for example asking them to browse the file system when writing a music disc would most likely result in failure and frustration.

Cheers, Evandro

That's a great point and I agree with you! -Calvin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 2007-08-20 at 06:59 -0400, James Tremblay wrote:

On Sat, 2007-08-18 at 22:13 -0600, Calvin Gaisford wrote:

...

On Sat, 2007-08-18 at 18:48 -0300, Evandro Fernandes Giovanini wrote:

...

Em Sex, 2007-08-17 às 08:45 -0400, JP Rosevear escreveu:

...

On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 23:13 -0300, Evandro Fernandes Giovanini wrote:

...

Em Qui, 2007-08-16 às 15:22 -0400, JP Rosevear escreveu:

...

We need to (quickly) decide on a defaultCD/DVD burning solution for 10.3. gnome-baker used to be kind of defacto, but brasero seems to be the new hotness. What to people think?

Brasero: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/jproseve/openSUSE_Factory/

gnome-baker: Factory

Why not just nautilus (for data discs) and Banshee (for audio discs)?

Yes, thats basically what we do now, but we get requests for more complex burning options like are provided with k3b.

Well, Brasero and gnome-baker (and k3b as well) should be available to people that need complex options. I just don't think it should be the default for everyone.

I'm afraid having one of these applications installed might "mislead" users to try them before the simpler options. Even my mom and dad can burn discs as it is now, but for example asking them to browse the file system when writing a music disc would most likely result in failure and frustration.

Cheers, Evandro

That's a great point and I agree with you!

-Calvin

I think that having one of these integrated to the point of replacing all the functions of the nautilus tools as those work now and having the opportunity to open the full program gui as and "advanced"(i.e. right click on iso and see burn to disk or open in advanced mode) option at any point makes more sense and better benefits the growth of Gnome as a whole. The KDE doesn't, IIRC, have a "dumbed down" version just tighter integration. As a desktop, it's ok for the Gnome to make some "Standard" choices like adding a burning software or office suite as long as it doesn't exclude the options of replacing those choices.

We can't for the sake of our parents ignore the needs of our children.

p.s. someone mentioned earlier that they had issues with the nautilus tools rejecting media while GnomeBaker accepted it and burned perfectly usable discs, I second that, it just happened to me again and I'm on the hardened\tested\certified enterprise ready SLED10SP1!. -- James Tremblay Director of Technology Newmarket School District Newmarket,NH http://en.opensuse.org/Education "let's make a difference" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 22:48 -0400, James Tremblay wrote:

On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 15:22 -0400, JP Rosevear wrote:

...

We need to (quickly) decide on a defaultCD/DVD burning solution for 10.3. gnome-baker used to be kind of defacto, but brasero seems to be the new hotness. What to people think?

Brasero: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/jproseve/openSUSE_Factory/

gnome-baker: Factory

-JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc.

I guess the real questions is... does the openSUSE team have a preference for the underlying code of one versus the other. will the team be working on improving the chosen one?

Well, the more recent active development of brasero is a plus, but gnome-baker seems a little more mature. In the end we just want to ship what the openSUSE users want :-). -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2007-08-17 at 09:48 -0400, James Tremblay wrote:

On Fri, 2007-08-17 at 08:46 -0400, JP Rosevear wrote:

...

On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 22:48 -0400, James Tremblay wrote:

...

On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 15:22 -0400, JP Rosevear wrote:

...

We need to (quickly) decide on a defaultCD/DVD burning solution for 10.3. gnome-baker used to be kind of defacto, but brasero seems to be the new hotness. What to people think?

Brasero: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/jproseve/openSUSE_Factory/

gnome-baker: Factory

-JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc.

I guess the real questions is... does the openSUSE team have a preference for the underlying code of one versus the other. will the team be working on improving the chosen one?

Well, the more recent active development of brasero is a plus, but gnome-baker seems a little more mature.

In the end we just want to ship what the openSUSE users want :-).

-JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc.

Does one of them fit in better or is more compatible with the overall desktop programming language. since they are both fairly equal in features, could we get a devs pro\con list with regards to ease of integration. i.e is one more compatible with future mono apps? are there any "QT" vs "GTK" issues?

Both use GTK, both are written in C, so there's not much to choose there. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

I think gnome-baker probably wins out a bit because its a bit more well known. We should look at brasero again for the next openSUSE release though. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Will brasero be made available (though not installed by default)? Having it available in the repository will expose it to more users.

At the very least, I suggest you add it to GNOME:Community, JP. -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org http://usr-local-bin.org GNOME for openSUSE: http://software.opensuse.org/download/GNOME:/ Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/in -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Hello all. 1. See article about burning cds in the Gnome [1] 2. Gnome-baker is no longer in development [2] 3. The next friday is the target for the next 0.6.1 Brasero version. So, my voice is for Brasero. Kirill Kirillov. [1] http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/burning_cds_in_gnome [2] http://www.nabble.com/Is-this-an-active-project--tf3171932.html#a8915904 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

В Вто, 21/08/2007 в 07:25 -0400, James Tremblay пишет:

On Tue, 2007-08-21 at 03:02 +0400, Kirill Kirillov wrote:

...

Hello all.

1. See article about burning cds in the Gnome [1]

2. Gnome-baker is no longer in development [2]

3. The next friday is the target for the next 0.6.1 Brasero version.

So, my voice is for Brasero.

Kirill Kirillov.

[1] http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/burning_cds_in_gnome [2] http://www.nabble.com/Is-this-an-active-project--tf3171932.html#a8915904

Kirill, You make a very good point\argument for Brasero. It takes me back to the question, "will openSUSE be making changes to the one chosen?" If the answer is, yes, wouldn't openSUSE\gnome as a whole be served better by becoming the upstream source for an application that almost all desktops \distro's try to include (KDE&K3B are inseparable) , even more important than supporting a floppy drive in today's world. Since the body of the work in GnomeBaker is complete it makes modifications which integrate it better into Gnome the main portion of the work left. One of my chief complaints about opensource is the unpredictability of the upstream devs, which is why I choose openSUSE in the first place. Having openSUSE adopt Gnomebaker as a native product to replace the "Nautilus cd tools" would in my mind improve it and Gnome as a reliable tool, and I would very much like to see GnomeBaker in the SLED XX.X distro soon. -- James Tremblay Director of Technology Newmarket School District Newmarket,NH http://en.opensuse.org/Education "let's make a difference"

Brasero is much simpler to use for beginners - it is user-friendly with good interactive help. If OpenSuse Linux is a distributive for power users and specialists, then may be the Gnome-baker is the correct choice (but I suppose better for them to use k3b in spite of QT). If OpenSuse Linus is a distributive for everyone (for newbies also), then Brasero is the only choice. (Just compare these applications from the new users view), Yes, Brasero is new project (in comparison with K3B), but it's progress is amazing (since it has many contributors), it is on the intensive developing and Gnome integration way. Kirill Kirillov. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Il giorno mar, 21/08/2007 alle 08.14 -0400, Joe Shaw ha scritto:

Hi,

On 8/20/07, Kirill Kirillov wrote:

...

So, my voice is for Brasero.

Brasero can also utilize Beagle for search, so that's a plus in my book. :)

To be honest, this is a _huge_minus_ in my opinion. Many users don't like beagle and don't want to install it. Moreover, I still think gnomebaker is more tested and better working. Brasero needs to become more mature before going on adding features which are not that relevant for a burning tool. With kind regards, Alberto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Interesting thought... a modern desktop without a search engine.

No. A modern desktop without a resource hog and unreliable search engine. This is what I said. Beagle is powerful and very useful, when it works. But it's indexing processes are too heavy even for a modern PC, and are not stable enough because it's still frequent to have 100% of the cpu used by its helpers. An example is what happens on SLED SP1, where the whole cpu is used for hours, thanks to the build index inserted in cronjobs.

My guess is that the many users who don't like beagle and don't want to install it are the minority.

For what I hear, a lot of users just install it because they have it there by default, and then disable it.

Windows, OS X, and Linux all have indexing solutions turned on and people not only have come to accept the performance issues that come with indexing everything, they embrace it so they don't have to track and file their data.

Sorry but you probably never compared MacOS X search features performance and beagle, for example on a notebook, because there's really no comparison. Performance issues are not acceptable if they make your system useless for a lot of time, and this is what beagle does, even on the enterprise version of SUSE. Regards, Alberto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

I have and do compare it to the OS X search features, my experience on SLED SP1 has just been different from what you have described.

SLED SP1 adds cron job to index files and documentation. When this cron job is executed, it goes on for ages, and it's a pain on a notebook, where it can last for days considering you switch it on and off. We should consider these issues before introducing new, under development, and potentially problematic features, in my opinion. Regards, Alberto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Hi again, On 8/21/07, Joe Shaw wrote:

[1] Remove the redirection of stdout and stderr to /dev/null in /etc/cron.daily/beagle-crawl-system; that'll cause output to be emailed to root, or run the script itself directly (as root).

I just checked in some changes to the shell script that the cronjob runs, which should make this a less manual process. All you have to do is change the DEBUG=0 variable at the top to DEBUG=1. I've attached the updated script, which you can just run with "sudo ./beagle-crawl-system" or something similar. I'd be interested in knowing what the results are. Thanks, Joe

Il giorno mar, 21/08/2007 alle 16.53 -0400, Joe Shaw ha scritto:

Hi again,

On 8/21/07, Joe Shaw wrote:

...

[1] Remove the redirection of stdout and stderr to /dev/null in /etc/cron.daily/beagle-crawl-system; that'll cause output to be emailed to root, or run the script itself directly (as root).

I just checked in some changes to the shell script that the cronjob runs, which should make this a less manual process. All you have to do is change the DEBUG=0 variable at the top to DEBUG=1.

I've attached the updated script, which you can just run with "sudo ./beagle-crawl-system" or something similar. I'd be interested in knowing what the results are.

Tried it on my notebook right now, and it was very fast because already indexed. The issue I was talking about is not a bug in my opinion. It's the huge amount of time and resources used by beagle when it indexes a lot of files. For example I didn't remove /home when I installed SP1. Regards, Alberto

Patrick Shanahan writes:

Don't see that on my 10.1 openSUSE. Don't see any problems w/beagle at all.

Maybe, the problems are caused by different network environments, just guessing. Or there are strange interactions with our build system or my way of Web browsing. With every version (10.0, 10.1, 10.2) I observed similar issues as described by Alberto and I must disable or remove it. I've my desktop running all the time without restarting, usually it is up for several weeks or months. Restarting and let's see what happens. -- Karl Eichwalder R&D / Documentation SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan writes:

* Karl Eichwalder [08-22-07 02:31]:

...

I've my desktop running all the time without restarting, usually it is up for several weeks or months.

same, I only restart after opening the case or installing new kernel.

...

Restarting and let's see what happens.

Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz (ht), BTW. Since quite some time, beagled-helper now eat ~99% of one (virtual) CPU and the fans are spinning up... ATM, I see: Debug: Loading Beagle.Util.Conf+IndexingConfig from indexing.xml Debug: Loading Beagle.Util.Conf+DaemonConfig from daemon.xml Debug: Loading Beagle.Util.Conf+SearchingConfig from searching.xml Scheduler: Count: 278 Status: Executing task Delayed 0 (8/22/2007 1:45:38 PM) Crawling /suse/ke/News/cache/nnimap+suse:INBOX.cestina Pending Tasks: 1 Immediate 0 (8/22/2007 1:48:09 PM) http://skillingstad.no/packages/ 2 Immediate 0 (8/22/2007 1:50:07 PM) file:///suse/ke/News/cache/active 3 Immediate 0 (8/22/2007 1:56:39 PM) file:///suse/ke/News/drafts/drafts/2423 It does not change; and that's the beagled process: 28021 ke 15 0 49500 24m 8304 S 98 1.2 16:19.68 beagled-helper -- Karl Eichwalder R&D / Documentation SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On 22/08/07, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

Patrick Shanahan writes:

...

Don't see that on my 10.1 openSUSE. Don't see any problems w/beagle at all.

Maybe, the problems are caused by different network environments, just guessing. Or there are strange interactions with our build system or my way of Web browsing. With every version (10.0, 10.1, 10.2) I observed similar issues as described by Alberto and I must disable or remove it.

NFS-mounted partitions, perhaps? Regards, -- Michel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On 8/22/07, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

Patrick Shanahan writes:

...

Don't see that on my 10.1 openSUSE. Don't see any problems w/beagle at all.

Maybe, the problems are caused by different network environments, just guessing.

Possibly. Beagle does some extra work for remote (NFS, SMB) home directories such that the index is built locally (in /tmp) and checkpointed back to home every now and then. But that would mostly IO-bound (specifically network) and not CPU-bound. Other than that, network configuration shouldn't matter.

Or there are strange interactions with our build system or my way of Web browsing.

Certainly creating tons and tons of files means that the indexer has to do more work, but if the build system doesn't build in your home directory, then this shouldn't be an issue. (I guess it wouldn't be for autobuild or the OBS.) Web browsing may have caused an impact a while ago (more than a year at this point) but shouldn't matter now. I guess if your browser continuously updates a file in your home directory by writing to it and closing and reopening the file, this would cause problems -- we have seen this with some BitTorrent cllients, but never browsers. On 8/22/07, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

Since quite some time, beagled-helper now eat ~99% of one (virtual) CPU and the fans are spinning up... ATM, I see:

Scheduler: Count: 278 Status: Executing task Delayed 0 (8/22/2007 1:45:38 PM) Crawling /suse/ke/News/cache/nnimap+suse:INBOX.cestina

Pending Tasks: 1 Immediate 0 (8/22/2007 1:48:09 PM) http://skillingstad.no/packages/

The question here really is: does this change over time, say, 5 minutes? If not, you've found a bug; sending SIGUSR2 to the beagled-helper process will cause beagle to log to its ~/.beagle/Log/current-IndexHelper file which file it's working on. With that information, you can run the beagle-extract-content tool on that file and see if it too hangs. Then I just need to debug *why* that behavior happens for that specific file. Thanks, Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

"Joe Shaw" writes:

...

Scheduler: Count: 278 Status: Executing task Delayed 0 (8/22/2007 1:45:38 PM) Crawling /suse/ke/News/cache/nnimap+suse:INBOX.cestina

Pending Tasks: 1 Immediate 0 (8/22/2007 1:48:09 PM) http://skillingstad.no/packages/

The question here really is: does this change over time, say, 5 minutes?

It did not change since yesterday.

If not, you've found a bug; sending SIGUSR2 to the beagled-helper process will cause beagle to log to its ~/.beagle/Log/current-IndexHelper file which file it's working on. With that information, you can run the beagle-extract-content tool on that file and see if it too hangs. Then I just need to debug *why* that behavior happens for that specific file.

I killed the helper (and it automatically restarts): cat ~/.beagle/Log/current-IndexHelper 070823 1045232558 10887 IndexH WARN: Unable to set IO priority for process to idle 070823 1045234664 10887 IndexH WARN: Found a dangling index lock on /tmp/beagle-ke-9eebda98-f387-48f9-8822-0458da787257/Indexes/FileSystemIndex/Locks/lucene-640d6e228eb98de51dad5df57cf08693-write.lock beagle-extract-content /tmp/beagle-ke-9eebda98-f387-48f9-8822-0458da787257/Indexes/FileSystemIndex/Locks/lucene-640d6e228eb98de51dad5df57cf08693-write.lock Filename: file:///tmp/beagle-ke-9eebda98-f387-48f9-8822-0458da787257/Indexes/FileSystemIndex/Locks/lucene-640d6e228eb98de51dad5df57cf08693-write.lock Debug: Loaded 50 filters from /usr/lib/beagle/Filters/Filters.dll Filter: Beagle.Filters.FilterText MimeType: text/plain Properties: Timestamp = 8/23/2007 8:45:23 AM Content: 10887 (no hot content) Maybe, that's what you need. -- Karl Eichwalder R&D / Documentation SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

"Joe Shaw" writes:

...

I killed the helper (and it automatically restarts):

What I really need is the output after you send SIGUSR2 to the beagled-helper process. Killing it, well, kills it and doesn't say what file it was working on. Sending SIGUSR2 will cause something like this to be printed in the output:

20070104 13:47:44.7441 21848 IndexH WARN: Filtering status (26s ago): determining filter for file:///home/joe/kernel-source-2.6.11.4-717.inotify.3.i586.rpm

That is what would be most helpful, because it will pinpoint the problem to a single file.

How do I do this properly? I called "kill -s SIGUSR2 28021" and in the log I found (I do not remember whether there was something different on stdout): cat ~/.beagle/Log/current-IndexHelper 070823 1045232558 10887 IndexH WARN: Unable to set IO priority for process to idle 070823 1045234664 10887 IndexH WARN: Found a dangling index lock on /tmp/beagle-ke-9eebda98-f387-48f9-8822-0458da787257/Indexes/FileSystemIndex/Locks/lucene-640d6e228eb98de51dad5df57cf08693-write.lock beagle-extract-content /tmp/beagle-ke-9eebda98-f387-48f9-8822-0458da787257/Indexes/FileSystemIndex/Locks/lucene-640d6e228eb98de51dad5df57cf08693-write.lock Filename: file:///tmp/beagle-ke-9eebda98-f387-48f9-8822-0458da787257/Indexes/FileSystemIndex/Locks/lucene-640d6e228eb98de51dad5df57cf08693-write.lock Debug: Loaded 50 filters from /usr/lib/beagle/Filters/Filters.dll Filter: Beagle.Filters.FilterText MimeType: text/plain Properties: Timestamp = 8/23/2007 8:45:23 AM Content: 10887 (no hot content) -- Karl Eichwalder R&D / Documentation SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Hello all. Sorry, I've forgotten to add URL with Brasero changes for new version [1] Kirill Kirillov. [1] http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/brasero/branches/brasero_0_6/NEWS?view=markup -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org