<snipe>

Banshee is our default since 11.0 atleast, Ever since we had slab menu, I don't remember seeing any other media player in it. May be for 11.4 GNOME screenshots, as part of announce mail, we can include Banshee's also (purchasing music from amazon). I believe we may not need anything more. But do you have any other suggestions ?

Well, since Ubuntu is going to place some lights on it, the best way to use that into our advantage is maybe to provide a more 'featured' release, though I don't know how that could become possible, or if it's already like that. Any links to info regarding banshee? Something I can compare with the version that canonical is going to release and then see how we can take advantage of it. Another thing I remember would probably be improving GNOME slide on the Installer slide show to something more objective and accurate. I have the artwork sources in gitorious for those files, so I can rewrite them, and they even support pictures :) (and .rtf ? wtf?). By the way... I would like to suggest one thing for a future release, maybe on the major... Present the openSUSE GNOME Desktop as 'The choice of a generation'? Would that sound good? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Paul Cutler wrote:

From my time in #banshee IRC, it's too early to tell what the Banshee release in Ubuntu will look like.  They're trying to slim it down right now, so some community extensions may be missing in Ubuntu. Other than that, core functionality will be the same including music & video playback, podcasts, last.fm support, iPod support, etc.

Good thing, as long as we offer more functionality that's good for us. We better wait a bit and check what is really happening.

The only other thing I'm personally watching is if they change the Amazon referral codes.

I don't know if Banshee is somewhere I'd put my focus on.  Yes, we had

Banshee is in a way the most representative 'face' of Multimedia capabilities in openSUSE GNOME, so I trully think that it should be something that we as 'openSUSE' should have some highlighting. On the other hand, since it's product associated with Novell, I think that it even makes a stronger argument.

Banshee first, I get that. We should be thinking about our GNOME user experience vs. Unity, in my opinion.  There are lots of rumblings in

I would strongly suggest cooperation between openSUSE and GNOME Marketing teams to develop this concept of experience with gnome-shell. In fact we could pretty much work with other distributions like Fedora for this approach and give it a more uniform statement cross-projects about gnome-shell. We should all be UNITED on this one. At least between GNOME and openSUSE I would risk to say it would be an awesome experience (marketing wise) to work together on this.

the community that people who prefer GNOME are switching to Debian and Fedora - how do we capitalize on that?

This I don't understand... could you elaborate? Who is swapping to Fedora and why? our users? or Ubuntu users... This is very interesting Paul, please provide more info, because if that is the case (even if it's a rumor), it's also an opportunity for us and we can benefit from it directly and indirectly. Nelson PS: A bit off-topic, in the scope of openSUSE Project, like I stated before, having Unity available for our users on a repo would enable our users to test it and see it without vendor change. If there are no legal entanglements and someone want to place some work on that happening could be interesting to openSUSE as a vertical defense method to keep our local population/users happy and not risk them with a vendor change for some crazy hype thingie. Just one of my concerns.

Paul

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Nelson Marques wrote:

...

<snipe>

...

Banshee is our default since 11.0 atleast, Ever since we had slab menu, I don't remember seeing any other media player in it. May be for 11.4 GNOME screenshots, as part of announce mail, we can include Banshee's also (purchasing music from amazon). I believe we may not need anything more. But do you have any other suggestions ?

Well, since Ubuntu is going to place some lights on it, the best way to use that into our advantage is maybe to provide a more 'featured' release, though I don't know how that could become possible, or if it's already like that.

Any links to info regarding banshee? Something I can compare with the version that canonical is going to release and then see how we can take advantage of it.

Another thing I remember would probably be improving GNOME slide on the Installer slide show to something more objective and accurate. I have the artwork sources in gitorious for those files, so I can rewrite them, and they even support pictures :) (and .rtf ? wtf?).

By the way... I would like to suggest one thing for a future release, maybe on the major... Present the openSUSE GNOME Desktop as 'The choice of a generation'? Would that sound good? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

-- nelson marques nmo.marques@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Hi Vincent, I have a lot of stuff already done that can be used for Unity dependencies. All I've done is vanilla, so there's no patching at all involved. I'll share within a few days once I get Ubuntu Indicators done (all the dependencies are packages, though I need to pass a sane check on them before showing them, cause some licences and stuff on the spec are too much 'hammered'). I think it's a cool option to have it on the repo's mainly for strategical defense of our user base, but never as default. Nelson. On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Vincent Untz wrote:

Le vendredi 03 décembre 2010, à 00:03 +0000, Nelson Marques a écrit :

...

PS: A bit off-topic, in the scope of openSUSE Project, like I stated before, having Unity available for our users on a repo would enable our users to test it and see it without vendor change. If there are no legal entanglements and someone want to place some work on that happening could be interesting to openSUSE as a vertical defense method to keep our local population/users happy and not risk them with a vendor change for some crazy hype thingie. Just one of my concerns.

People are welcome to package it, and we can help a bit, I guess.

Vincent

-- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

-- nelson marques nmo.marques@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On 07/12/2010 02:52, Paul Cutler wrote:

On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 00:03 +0000, Nelson Marques wrote:

...

At least between GNOME and openSUSE I would risk to say it would be an awesome experience (marketing wise) to work together on this.

...

the community that people who prefer GNOME are switching to Debian and Fedora - how do we capitalize on that? This I don't understand... could you elaborate? Who is swapping to Fedora and why? our users? or Ubuntu users... This is very interesting Paul, please provide more info, because if that is the case (even if it's a rumor), it's also an opportunity for us and we can benefit from it directly and indirectly.

Nelson I would say, at this time, a small number of Ubuntu users (mostly GNOME developers) are switching away from Ubuntu to Debian or Fedora as they disagree with some of Ubuntu's direction, like Unity.

One example is Christian Hergert, developer of PerfKit, who after the Boston Summit tweeted: http://twitter.com/#!/vwduder/status/1697293258457088

(And has since switched to Fedora).

There is some rumbling in the community of others as well. In my opinion, these are early adopters and more GNOME-centric developers, but it may be a preview of some user reaction once Ubuntu 11.04 comes out. I'd be curious to see the openSUSE marketing team work on a plan to help migrate Ubuntu users to openSUSE and make the transition easier.

Paul

If I may, I would like to add a comment or two. I am an Ubuntu user and have been for some 8 months (after I switched form openSUSE with KDE after many years [because of KDE if you are interested]). The recent talk about Ubuntu going Unity did not quite gel with me and so I tried Fedora (Gnome) to see what that was like. For me it was a dud but for others......well it's up to them to decide for themselves. I then downloaded openSUSE 11.3 DVD and installed the Gnome desktop on a spare HD, again to see what my original favoured OS was like but now with Gnome. (BTW, I am writing this post using Ubuntu 10.10.) To be very frank, it was like going back to the dark ages when openSUSE with the Gnome desktop/workplaces appeared on my screen. In Ubuntu, there is "a place for everything and everything is in its place." In oS, everything is all over the place - and confusing to the user. It would certainly be most confusing to an Ubuntu user if s/he were to switch to oS at this point in time. Please let me illustrate what I mean - and you can compare what you see from a user's point of view. I offer this as suggestion for consideration - you like, you 'keep'; you don't like...... well..... no skin off my nose :-) . As I stated above, this post is written using Ubuntu. Below I provide some pics of what my Ubuntu desktop looks like normally - *EXCEPT *that the top and bottom panels are *NOT* displayed as they are auto-hidden; the desktop therefore is "clean", with no icons or widgets or whatever of whatever description or manner or size. The screen shot of this is: http://picpaste.com/ubuntu-a-UKX6vktc.jpg At the top left you will see entries for Applications, Places, and System. I have opened each up and, in sequence, the screen shots for them are: http://picpaste.com/ubuntu-apps-a-ryrYmU2V.jpg http://picpaste.com/ubuntu-places-a-uWkPsLvt.jpg http://picpaste.com/ubuntu-system-a-NeZvCCQU.jpg The above is what an Ubuntu user basically sees when s/he installs Ubuntu. They also see same (or close enough) when they install MINTLinux which is based on Ubuntu. Compare this to what oS Gnome now has. If you want to attract Ubuntu and other users then please consider the above. BC -- Attorney: Are you qualified to give a urine sample? Witness: Are you qualified to ask that question? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On 07/12/2010 18:10, Sankar P wrote:

...

I am an Ubuntu user and have been for some 8 months (after I switched form openSUSE with KDE after many years [because of KDE if you are interested]).

Welcome. Hope you have fun here in openSUSE :)

Firstly, please adjust your mailer so that you don't send - to me at least - two copies of your posts: one as a private message and one to the list. I can read the one posted to the list quite well. (Unless, of course, you want to actually respond in private to some post from me.) [pruned]

It is the traditional GNOME main menu which can still be added via "Add to panel ". However,

You seem to be missing the point entirely, but this is of no consequence to me. In Ubuntu you do not need to "add to panel". Do you grasp the difference? But, as I stated, I am only offering my comments to those who may be influencing the progress of Gnome in oS. [pruned] BC -- Attorney: Are you qualified to give a urine sample? Witness: Are you qualified to ask that question? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On 07/12/2010 18:52, Sankar P wrote:

...

...

...

On 12/7/2010 at 01:06 PM, in message<4CFDE3F8.7030103@iinet.net.au>, Basil Chupin wrote: On 07/12/2010 18:10, Sankar P wrote: I am an Ubuntu user and have been for some 8 months (after I switched form openSUSE with KDE after many years [because of KDE if you are interested]).

Welcome. Hope you have fun here in openSUSE :) Firstly, please adjust your mailer so that you don't send - to me at least - two copies of your posts: one as a private message and one to the list. I can read the one posted to the list quite well. (Unless, of course, you want to actually respond in private to some post from me.)

Sorry. Different mail clients with different keyboard shortcuts.

...

[pruned]

...

It is the traditional GNOME main menu which can still be added via "Add to panel ". However,

You seem to be missing the point entirely, but this is of no consequence to me.

In Ubuntu you do not need to "add to panel".

Do you grasp the difference?

Yes. But what I am saying is, "the traditional main menu" was the default in openSUSE earlier editions and was removed and we added the new "Computer" menu. So, what you find in Ubuntu by default is something we felt not good enough/ can be improved.

Whatever. What I showed in my screenshots is what someone installing Ubuntu[1] sees after installation (except, of course, before, as I did, adding the applications to the Launchpad on the top panel). However, the desktop/workspace is "clean" - as my first screen shot shows. What you showed in your screenshot is something contrived and manipulated, something which has to be "fiddled with" to achieve and requiring know-how as to how to achieve this from other users of oS Gnome - such as yourself. There is nothing wrong with this, but we are talking here about attracting Ubuntu users, for example, to oS, right? And what they first see is quite important, wouldn't you agree? The image you showed is not something shown as a default screenshot of a Gnome desktop/workspace in oS. The default screen - the basic one which appears in my my first screenshot - is what people would expect when changing over from Ubuntu to oS. At least this is my conviction. What openSUSE wants to do to attract Ubuntu users is totally up to openSUSE. All I did was make some comments (from an Ubuntu user's point of view, and who used openSUSE since version 7 [in KDE format]. Nevertheless, there will be other Ubuntu users who will disagree with what I stated. This is of no concern to me. I am not the one who has to market openSUSE Gnome to the rest of the world). [1] MintLinux is based on Ubuntu. You will also see same when you install UltimateEdition - except that you will see a much prettier and attention grabbing presentation of what Gnome could look like. openSUSE is not the ultimate "ants pants" in this world of Gnome oriented desktops in the Linux world. But I would like to hope that it would be. BC -- Attorney: Are you qualified to give a urine sample? Witness: Are you qualified to ask that question? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On 07/12/2010 22:08, Sankar P wrote:

...

Whatever.

What I showed in my screenshots is what someone installing Ubuntu[1] sees after installation (except, of course, before, as I did, adding the applications to the Launchpad on the top panel).

However, the desktop/workspace is "clean" - as my first screen shot shows.

What you showed in your screenshot is something contrived and manipulated, something which has to be "fiddled with" to achieve and requiring know-how as to how to achieve this from other users of oS Gnome - such as yourself.

There is nothing wrong with this, but we are talking here about attracting Ubuntu users, for example, to oS, right?

And what they first see is quite important, wouldn't you agree?

Yes. Who said it is not ?

I didn't. But so far the only "voice in the wilderness" is you.

...

The image you showed is not something shown as a default screenshot of a Gnome desktop/workspace in oS.

A somewhat similar default screen for openSUSE is: http://ostatic.com/files/images/800px-os110beta1-gnome0.png (if you use Evolution)

The point is - and which you keep insisting on - is that something is the "default" screen for "openSUSE" (and "if you use Evolution" as well). Think outside the square. openSUSE is NOT the be all and end all of the Linux world. From what I have read, Ubuntu is far more popular than openSUSE. And you want to attract these Ubuntu users - like myself.

My earlier screenshot was just to show you can customize things.

...

The default screen - the basic one which appears in my my first screenshot - is what people would expect when changing over from Ubuntu to oS.

You proposed two things:

-> Different main menu: Which I explained is oldstyle and we have a better menu. Anyways, gnome-shell is going to be the future default UI (not for 11.4) My screenshot was just to show the desktop can be customized if some user wants it.

-> Clean desktop: I personally believe having access to home folder and removable drives on desktop is more user-friendly for most users. If you have strong opinions about clean desktop, please file a feature request. Or as I suggested in my previous mail, please raise it as a pet-peeve.

...

At least this is my conviction.

What openSUSE wants to do to attract Ubuntu users is totally up to openSUSE.

All I did was make some comments (from an Ubuntu user's point of view, and who used openSUSE since version 7 [in KDE format]. Nevertheless, there will be other Ubuntu users who will disagree with what I stated. This is of no concern to me. I am not the one who has to market openSUSE Gnome to the rest of the world).

I don't understand what makes you so Grumpy. Your suggestions are heard, respected and also replied. We welcome more suggestions as well, but just do not expect everything to be implemented, unless you can prove they are essential. Have fun :-)

You are definitely missing the point. I am not out to prove anything, nor am I expecting to have what I am putting forward to be implemented. From the start I stated that I would like to offer some comments. Nothing more, nothing less. Nobody likes them - fine. No skin off my nose. Don't want to attract other distro users to oS? Fine with me. [pruned]

Sankar P.S:My last mail to this thread. Same here - as far as your are concerned anyway.

BC -- Attorney: Are you qualified to give a urine sample? Witness: Are you qualified to ask that question? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 02 December 2010 18:49:15 Vincent Untz wrote:

Hi Andreas,

Le jeudi 02 décembre 2010, à 15:02 +0100, Andreas Jaeger a écrit :

...

Hi openSUSE GNOME team,

As blogged a couple of days ago ( http://news.opensuse.org/2010/11/30/feature-handling-for-opensuse-rewo rked/ ), we need some people that evaluate features for our distribution.

How does your team like to evaluate features? We really like to have you evaluate your features...

I guess the thing that would help us most is to have an easy to access report for unreviewed GNOME-related features. And maybe we could have a weekly mail about that, then.

Any idea how many features this would involve? If it's 5 per week, then we could quickly discuss them during the meetings. If it's 50 per week, that's a different story ;-)

It's too early to give real numbers and it depends how could we screen on a regular base ;) Let's ask Thomas for help on the technical side, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

On Friday, December 03, 2010 02:33:39 PM Thomas Schmidt wrote:

Ok, so reviewing features by the gnome team should start in state 'new'. All features for 11.4 in state 'new' and tag gnome: https://features.opensuse.org/query/run?search_string=&tag=gnome&search_pro ducts[]=22236&search_products[]=opensuse_dist&type=find&commit=Search These should be evaluated by you and set to either rejected, duplicate or marketplace. Marketplace means that this is a sane feature that is up for graps and searching for a developer.

There are not many features to be reviewed right now, because the screening (unconfirmed->new, set tags) is not reaaly up to speed yet. So you might also want to check the unconfirmed requests for 11.4: https://features.opensuse.org/query/run?search_string=&tag=&search_product s[]=22236&search_products[]=opensuse_dist&search_status[]=unconfirmed&type= find&commit=Search

I also added the tags as hermes parameters, so you can create notifications and feeds from features reaching your state.

Thanks, Thomas! GNOME team, you can start now evaluating these. Thanks, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org