[New: openFATE 308351] Make Live Updates Easy
Feature added by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Feature #308351, revision 1 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Feature #308351, revision 2 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. + Discussion: + #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) + This is already implemented. + The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, + after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can + tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether + they should be announced to the user or not. + The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the + user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. + If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, + in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first + presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a + custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs + the dup algorithm. + This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some + coordination overhead. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Feature #308351, revision 3 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. + #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) + This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 + /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Feature #308351, revision 4 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? + #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 12:59:50) (reply to #2) + Yes. A patch to the update stack may be required first, as I said, the + feature has not been tested. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Feature #308351, revision 5 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. + Relations: + - Product definition documentation (url: + http://en.opensuse.org/Product_Management/Code11/Upgrade) Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 12:59:50) (reply to #2) Yes. A patch to the update stack may be required first, as I said, the feature has not been tested. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: Victor Ong (acuvic) Feature #308351, revision 7 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. Relations: - Product definition documentation (url: http://en.opensuse.org/Product_Management/Code11/Upgrade) Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 12:59:50) (reply to #2) Yes. A patch to the update stack may be required first, as I said, the feature has not been tested. + #4: Victor Ong (acuvic) (2009-11-24 23:42:49) (reply to #3) + As a Linux newbie, I would like an upgrade path from openSUSE 11.1 to + 11.2 that is simple to implement. Duncan's suggestion "This is already + implemented ...." is not understandable by me and I just want to use my + computer for w/processing, s/sheets, Youtube, emails, picture albums, + etc (you get the idea). I dont want to have to learn convoluted command + line acrobatics, strange acronyms, "dependency problems", repositories, + etc. Please dont tell me to go forth and multiply with Windows, you + Linux supergeeks - most distro's have come a long way to make a + computer with Linux useable to ordinary mortals. Wonderful one click + install beats m/soft offerings hands down. A one click upgrade from + 11.1 to 11.2 would be heaven! -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Feature #308351, revision 8 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. Relations: - Product definition documentation (url: http://en.opensuse.org/Product_Management/Code11/Upgrade) Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 12:59:50) (reply to #2) Yes. A patch to the update stack may be required first, as I said, the feature has not been tested. #4: Victor Ong (acuvic) (2009-11-24 23:42:49) (reply to #3) As a Linux newbie, I would like an upgrade path from openSUSE 11.1 to 11.2 that is simple to implement. Duncan's suggestion "This is already implemented ...." is not understandable by me and I just want to use my computer for w/processing, s/sheets, Youtube, emails, picture albums, etc (you get the idea). I dont want to have to learn convoluted command line acrobatics, strange acronyms, "dependency problems", repositories, etc. Please dont tell me to go forth and multiply with Windows, you Linux supergeeks - most distro's have come a long way to make a computer with Linux useable to ordinary mortals. Wonderful one click install beats m/soft offerings hands down. A one click upgrade from 11.1 to 11.2 would be heaven! + #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-25 10:32:36) (reply to #4) + Excuse me, but you either don't understand the problem or have trouble + to read, or both. + First, I was describing a friendly "bubble" that tells you that your + distro has a new release and invites you to click it. If you click you + are presented a wizard which after some "Next" steps upgrades your + distro. This is not far from One Click Install. You were confused + because I was explaining Andreas how the infrastructure works. But you + should not make noise in a productivity tool if you are not sure you + are contributing with relevant information. + The current One-Click can't be used in a distribution upgrade, for a + simple reason. The update operation is non-destructive, but the + distribution version jump is. So the user has to deal with dependency + decisions anyway. For simple cases where the user has the 11.1 repos + and want to jump to 11.2, wagon wizard will probably not show any + conflict, because coolo can test those upgrades before releasing the + newest. + However, your "youtube email picture album" innocent user sometimes is + not that innocent and has 45 development and unstable repositories + added which make the solver unable to upgrade without removing some + packages. Those decisions need to be asked explicitly. + I think using the PackageKit applet as a notification, and then using + Wagon as a wizard, can provide a close to few clicks experience. + What I think it also may be interesting is to upgrade the one-click- + install description to allows dist-upgrades against a repository in the + description. The handler could call wagon (or use it somehow) if + possible. Or just reuse its modules. This would also solve the problem + of upgrading KDE from a web link. Adding Benji as Technical contact. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: Michael Löffler (michl19) Feature #308351, revision 11 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. Relations: - Product definition documentation (url: http://en.opensuse.org/Product_Management/Code11/Upgrade) Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. + #6: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2010-01-18 13:53:59) (reply to #1) + Andreas, is that what Duncan describes sufficient for you? #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 12:59:50) (reply to #2) Yes. A patch to the update stack may be required first, as I said, the feature has not been tested. #4: Victor Ong (acuvic) (2009-11-24 23:42:49) (reply to #3) As a Linux newbie, I would like an upgrade path from openSUSE 11.1 to 11.2 that is simple to implement. Duncan's suggestion "This is already implemented ...." is not understandable by me and I just want to use my computer for w/processing, s/sheets, Youtube, emails, picture albums, etc (you get the idea). I dont want to have to learn convoluted command line acrobatics, strange acronyms, "dependency problems", repositories, etc. Please dont tell me to go forth and multiply with Windows, you Linux supergeeks - most distro's have come a long way to make a computer with Linux useable to ordinary mortals. Wonderful one click install beats m/soft offerings hands down. A one click upgrade from 11.1 to 11.2 would be heaven! #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-25 10:32:36) (reply to #4) Excuse me, but you either don't understand the problem or have trouble to read, or both. First, I was describing a friendly "bubble" that tells you that your distro has a new release and invites you to click it. If you click you are presented a wizard which after some "Next" steps upgrades your distro. This is not far from One Click Install. You were confused because I was explaining Andreas how the infrastructure works. But you should not make noise in a productivity tool if you are not sure you are contributing with relevant information. The current One-Click can't be used in a distribution upgrade, for a simple reason. The update operation is non-destructive, but the distribution version jump is. So the user has to deal with dependency decisions anyway. For simple cases where the user has the 11.1 repos and want to jump to 11.2, wagon wizard will probably not show any conflict, because coolo can test those upgrades before releasing the newest. However, your "youtube email picture album" innocent user sometimes is not that innocent and has 45 development and unstable repositories added which make the solver unable to upgrade without removing some packages. Those decisions need to be asked explicitly. I think using the PackageKit applet as a notification, and then using Wagon as a wizard, can provide a close to few clicks experience. What I think it also may be interesting is to upgrade the one-click- install description to allows dist-upgrades against a repository in the description. The handler could call wagon (or use it somehow) if possible. Or just reuse its modules. This would also solve the problem of upgrading KDE from a web link. Adding Benji as Technical contact. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: Christoph Thiel (cthiel1) Feature #308351, revision 12 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory + Projectmanager: Desirable Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. Relations: - Product definition documentation (url: http://en.opensuse.org/Product_Management/Code11/Upgrade) Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. #6: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2010-01-18 13:53:59) (reply to #1) Andreas, is that what Duncan describes sufficient for you? #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 12:59:50) (reply to #2) Yes. A patch to the update stack may be required first, as I said, the feature has not been tested. #4: Victor Ong (acuvic) (2009-11-24 23:42:49) (reply to #3) As a Linux newbie, I would like an upgrade path from openSUSE 11.1 to 11.2 that is simple to implement. Duncan's suggestion "This is already implemented ...." is not understandable by me and I just want to use my computer for w/processing, s/sheets, Youtube, emails, picture albums, etc (you get the idea). I dont want to have to learn convoluted command line acrobatics, strange acronyms, "dependency problems", repositories, etc. Please dont tell me to go forth and multiply with Windows, you Linux supergeeks - most distro's have come a long way to make a computer with Linux useable to ordinary mortals. Wonderful one click install beats m/soft offerings hands down. A one click upgrade from 11.1 to 11.2 would be heaven! #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-25 10:32:36) (reply to #4) Excuse me, but you either don't understand the problem or have trouble to read, or both. First, I was describing a friendly "bubble" that tells you that your distro has a new release and invites you to click it. If you click you are presented a wizard which after some "Next" steps upgrades your distro. This is not far from One Click Install. You were confused because I was explaining Andreas how the infrastructure works. But you should not make noise in a productivity tool if you are not sure you are contributing with relevant information. The current One-Click can't be used in a distribution upgrade, for a simple reason. The update operation is non-destructive, but the distribution version jump is. So the user has to deal with dependency decisions anyway. For simple cases where the user has the 11.1 repos and want to jump to 11.2, wagon wizard will probably not show any conflict, because coolo can test those upgrades before releasing the newest. However, your "youtube email picture album" innocent user sometimes is not that innocent and has 45 development and unstable repositories added which make the solver unable to upgrade without removing some packages. Those decisions need to be asked explicitly. I think using the PackageKit applet as a notification, and then using Wagon as a wizard, can provide a close to few clicks experience. What I think it also may be interesting is to upgrade the one-click- install description to allows dist-upgrades against a repository in the description. The handler could call wagon (or use it somehow) if possible. Or just reuse its modules. This would also solve the problem of upgrading KDE from a web link. Adding Benji as Technical contact. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: jpxviii jpxviii (jpxviii) Feature #308351, revision 15 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Desirable + openSUSE-11.4: Unconfirmed + Priority + Requester: Mandatory Info Provider: (Novell) Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. Relations: - Product definition documentation (url: http://en.opensuse.org/Product_Management/Code11/Upgrade) Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. #6: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2010-01-18 13:53:59) (reply to #1) Andreas, is that what Duncan describes sufficient for you? #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 12:59:50) (reply to #2) Yes. A patch to the update stack may be required first, as I said, the feature has not been tested. #4: Victor Ong (acuvic) (2009-11-24 23:42:49) (reply to #3) As a Linux newbie, I would like an upgrade path from openSUSE 11.1 to 11.2 that is simple to implement. Duncan's suggestion "This is already implemented ...." is not understandable by me and I just want to use my computer for w/processing, s/sheets, Youtube, emails, picture albums, etc (you get the idea). I dont want to have to learn convoluted command line acrobatics, strange acronyms, "dependency problems", repositories, etc. Please dont tell me to go forth and multiply with Windows, you Linux supergeeks - most distro's have come a long way to make a computer with Linux useable to ordinary mortals. Wonderful one click install beats m/soft offerings hands down. A one click upgrade from 11.1 to 11.2 would be heaven! #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-25 10:32:36) (reply to #4) Excuse me, but you either don't understand the problem or have trouble to read, or both. First, I was describing a friendly "bubble" that tells you that your distro has a new release and invites you to click it. If you click you are presented a wizard which after some "Next" steps upgrades your distro. This is not far from One Click Install. You were confused because I was explaining Andreas how the infrastructure works. But you should not make noise in a productivity tool if you are not sure you are contributing with relevant information. The current One-Click can't be used in a distribution upgrade, for a simple reason. The update operation is non-destructive, but the distribution version jump is. So the user has to deal with dependency decisions anyway. For simple cases where the user has the 11.1 repos and want to jump to 11.2, wagon wizard will probably not show any conflict, because coolo can test those upgrades before releasing the newest. However, your "youtube email picture album" innocent user sometimes is not that innocent and has 45 development and unstable repositories added which make the solver unable to upgrade without removing some packages. Those decisions need to be asked explicitly. I think using the PackageKit applet as a notification, and then using Wagon as a wizard, can provide a close to few clicks experience. What I think it also may be interesting is to upgrade the one-click- install description to allows dist-upgrades against a repository in the description. The handler could call wagon (or use it somehow) if possible. Or just reuse its modules. This would also solve the problem of upgrading KDE from a web link. Adding Benji as Technical contact. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: jpxviii jpxviii (jpxviii) Feature #308351, revision 16 Title: Make Live Updates Easy + Hackweek V: Unconfirmed + Priority + Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Desirable openSUSE-11.4: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Mandatory Info Provider: (Novell) Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. Relations: - Product definition documentation (url: http://en.opensuse.org/Product_Management/Code11/Upgrade) Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. #6: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2010-01-18 13:53:59) (reply to #1) Andreas, is that what Duncan describes sufficient for you? #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 12:59:50) (reply to #2) Yes. A patch to the update stack may be required first, as I said, the feature has not been tested. #4: Victor Ong (acuvic) (2009-11-24 23:42:49) (reply to #3) As a Linux newbie, I would like an upgrade path from openSUSE 11.1 to 11.2 that is simple to implement. Duncan's suggestion "This is already implemented ...." is not understandable by me and I just want to use my computer for w/processing, s/sheets, Youtube, emails, picture albums, etc (you get the idea). I dont want to have to learn convoluted command line acrobatics, strange acronyms, "dependency problems", repositories, etc. Please dont tell me to go forth and multiply with Windows, you Linux supergeeks - most distro's have come a long way to make a computer with Linux useable to ordinary mortals. Wonderful one click install beats m/soft offerings hands down. A one click upgrade from 11.1 to 11.2 would be heaven! #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-25 10:32:36) (reply to #4) Excuse me, but you either don't understand the problem or have trouble to read, or both. First, I was describing a friendly "bubble" that tells you that your distro has a new release and invites you to click it. If you click you are presented a wizard which after some "Next" steps upgrades your distro. This is not far from One Click Install. You were confused because I was explaining Andreas how the infrastructure works. But you should not make noise in a productivity tool if you are not sure you are contributing with relevant information. The current One-Click can't be used in a distribution upgrade, for a simple reason. The update operation is non-destructive, but the distribution version jump is. So the user has to deal with dependency decisions anyway. For simple cases where the user has the 11.1 repos and want to jump to 11.2, wagon wizard will probably not show any conflict, because coolo can test those upgrades before releasing the newest. However, your "youtube email picture album" innocent user sometimes is not that innocent and has 45 development and unstable repositories added which make the solver unable to upgrade without removing some packages. Those decisions need to be asked explicitly. I think using the PackageKit applet as a notification, and then using Wagon as a wizard, can provide a close to few clicks experience. What I think it also may be interesting is to upgrade the one-click- install description to allows dist-upgrades against a repository in the description. The handler could call wagon (or use it somehow) if possible. Or just reuse its modules. This would also solve the problem of upgrading KDE from a web link. Adding Benji as Technical contact. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: Thomas Schmidt (digitaltomm) Feature #308351, revision 18 Title: Make Live Updates Easy - Hackweek V: Unconfirmed + openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important - openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation by engineering manager - Priority - Requester: Mandatory - Projectmanager: Desirable - openSUSE-11.4: Unconfirmed - Priority - Requester: Mandatory Info Provider: (Novell) Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Product Manager: (Novell) Product Manager: (Novell) Project Manager: (Novell) Engineering Manager: (Novell) Engineering Manager: (Novell) Technical Contact: (Novell) Technical Contact: Benjamin Weber (benjimanw) Technical Contact: Shawn Tibbits (benjiman) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. Relations: - Product definition documentation (url: http://en.opensuse.org/Product_Management/Code11/Upgrade) Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. #6: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2010-01-18 13:53:59) (reply to #1) Andreas, is that what Duncan describes sufficient for you? #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 12:59:50) (reply to #2) Yes. A patch to the update stack may be required first, as I said, the feature has not been tested. #4: Victor Ong (acuvic) (2009-11-24 23:42:49) (reply to #3) As a Linux newbie, I would like an upgrade path from openSUSE 11.1 to 11.2 that is simple to implement. Duncan's suggestion "This is already implemented ...." is not understandable by me and I just want to use my computer for w/processing, s/sheets, Youtube, emails, picture albums, etc (you get the idea). I dont want to have to learn convoluted command line acrobatics, strange acronyms, "dependency problems", repositories, etc. Please dont tell me to go forth and multiply with Windows, you Linux supergeeks - most distro's have come a long way to make a computer with Linux useable to ordinary mortals. Wonderful one click install beats m/soft offerings hands down. A one click upgrade from 11.1 to 11.2 would be heaven! #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-25 10:32:36) (reply to #4) Excuse me, but you either don't understand the problem or have trouble to read, or both. First, I was describing a friendly "bubble" that tells you that your distro has a new release and invites you to click it. If you click you are presented a wizard which after some "Next" steps upgrades your distro. This is not far from One Click Install. You were confused because I was explaining Andreas how the infrastructure works. But you should not make noise in a productivity tool if you are not sure you are contributing with relevant information. The current One-Click can't be used in a distribution upgrade, for a simple reason. The update operation is non-destructive, but the distribution version jump is. So the user has to deal with dependency decisions anyway. For simple cases where the user has the 11.1 repos and want to jump to 11.2, wagon wizard will probably not show any conflict, because coolo can test those upgrades before releasing the newest. However, your "youtube email picture album" innocent user sometimes is not that innocent and has 45 development and unstable repositories added which make the solver unable to upgrade without removing some packages. Those decisions need to be asked explicitly. I think using the PackageKit applet as a notification, and then using Wagon as a wizard, can provide a close to few clicks experience. What I think it also may be interesting is to upgrade the one-click- install description to allows dist-upgrades against a repository in the description. The handler could call wagon (or use it somehow) if possible. Or just reuse its modules. This would also solve the problem of upgrading KDE from a web link. Adding Benji as Technical contact. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
Feature changed by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Feature #308351, revision 19 Title: Make Live Updates Easy openSUSE Distribution: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important - Info Provider: (Novell) Requested by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Product Manager: (Novell) Product Manager: (Novell) Project Manager: (Novell) Engineering Manager: (Novell) Engineering Manager: (Novell) Technical Contact: (Novell) Technical Contact: Benjamin Weber (benjimanw) Technical Contact: Shawn Tibbits (benjiman) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The infrastructure is there for Live updates and it works with "zypper dup" but there are many manual steps. This is too complicated, users need first to google for the details before using it. We need an easy way to update from 11.2 to Factory, from 11.2 to 11.3 and from Factory to 11.3. Easy means: A single command line that does by default the update from 11.2 to 11.3 and offers the others as well. Relations: - Product definition documentation (url: http://en.opensuse.org/Product_Management/Code11/Upgrade) Discussion: #1: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 10:32:11) This is already implemented. The product definition and release package have a mechanism which, after upgrading the definition via a normal update, the defnition can tell which are the possible upgrade paths (11.x+1, Factory) and whether they should be announced to the user or not. The PackageKit ZYpp backend reads this upgrade paths and notifies the user via the desktop using the PackageKit distupgrade-available signal. If the user clicks to continue, a custom distro action can be started, in this case, we start YaST wagon, which is a module which first presents the user all available upgrade paths, or allows to enter a custom repository, then updates the stack and itself and then performs the dup algorithm. This infrastructure has not been tested because it needs some coordination overhead. #6: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2010-01-18 13:53:59) (reply to #1) Andreas, is that what Duncan describes sufficient for you? #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-11-18 12:13:09) This would mean an upgrade offer for everybody that currently runs 11.1 /11.2 to the next version triggered by a patch from our side, correct? #3: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-18 12:59:50) (reply to #2) Yes. A patch to the update stack may be required first, as I said, the feature has not been tested. #4: Victor Ong (acuvic) (2009-11-24 23:42:49) (reply to #3) As a Linux newbie, I would like an upgrade path from openSUSE 11.1 to 11.2 that is simple to implement. Duncan's suggestion "This is already implemented ...." is not understandable by me and I just want to use my computer for w/processing, s/sheets, Youtube, emails, picture albums, etc (you get the idea). I dont want to have to learn convoluted command line acrobatics, strange acronyms, "dependency problems", repositories, etc. Please dont tell me to go forth and multiply with Windows, you Linux supergeeks - most distro's have come a long way to make a computer with Linux useable to ordinary mortals. Wonderful one click install beats m/soft offerings hands down. A one click upgrade from 11.1 to 11.2 would be heaven! #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2009-11-25 10:32:36) (reply to #4) Excuse me, but you either don't understand the problem or have trouble to read, or both. First, I was describing a friendly "bubble" that tells you that your distro has a new release and invites you to click it. If you click you are presented a wizard which after some "Next" steps upgrades your distro. This is not far from One Click Install. You were confused because I was explaining Andreas how the infrastructure works. But you should not make noise in a productivity tool if you are not sure you are contributing with relevant information. The current One-Click can't be used in a distribution upgrade, for a simple reason. The update operation is non-destructive, but the distribution version jump is. So the user has to deal with dependency decisions anyway. For simple cases where the user has the 11.1 repos and want to jump to 11.2, wagon wizard will probably not show any conflict, because coolo can test those upgrades before releasing the newest. However, your "youtube email picture album" innocent user sometimes is not that innocent and has 45 development and unstable repositories added which make the solver unable to upgrade without removing some packages. Those decisions need to be asked explicitly. I think using the PackageKit applet as a notification, and then using Wagon as a wizard, can provide a close to few clicks experience. What I think it also may be interesting is to upgrade the one-click- install description to allows dist-upgrades against a repository in the description. The handler could call wagon (or use it somehow) if possible. Or just reuse its modules. This would also solve the problem of upgrading KDE from a web link. Adding Benji as Technical contact. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/308351
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