[openFate 305716] [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk)
Feature added by: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) Feature #305716, revision 1, last change by Title: [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one(!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly(!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ...
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers
Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in the most save way.
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...]
Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ).
(6)(6)Propose: > [...]
Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of-harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with-shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple-existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) Feature #305716, revision 2 - Title: [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) + Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Robert Davies (robopensuse) Feature #305716, revision 5 Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. + #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) + On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 + in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system + is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would + offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard + (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) Feature #305716, revision 6 Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. + #15: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) (2009-02-06 14:41:43) + What about adopting the installation proposal layout to the + partitioning during installation? + See http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Partitioner_proposal.png for a mock + up -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Feature #305716, revision 9 Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. #15: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) (2009-02-06 14:41:43) What about adopting the installation proposal layout to the partitioning during installation? See http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Partitioner_proposal.png for a mock up + #16: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-11 15:56:41) + What exactly should be done in this feature? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) Feature #305716, revision 11 Title: Disk partitioning under installation - openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation + openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) + reject date: 2009-08-21 13:41:17 + reject reason: In focus for openSUSE 11.3 Priority Requester: Important + openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation + Priority + Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. #15: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) (2009-02-06 14:41:43) What about adopting the installation proposal layout to the partitioning during installation? See http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Partitioner_proposal.png for a mock up #16: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-11 15:56:41) What exactly should be done in this feature? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Robert Davies (robopensuse) Feature #305716, revision 12 Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) reject date: 2009-08-21 13:41:17 reject reason: In focus for openSUSE 11.3 Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. #15: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) (2009-02-06 14:41:43) What about adopting the installation proposal layout to the partitioning during installation? See http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Partitioner_proposal.png for a mock up + #18: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-12 12:08:25) (reply to #15) + The Language used "Create" "Edit" Partitioning proposals is confusing + to those not regularly installiung systems. A line saying "Create + Partition Based Proposal (change)" is exactly the type of option that + leaves reviewers scratching their heads. + Can't their be "simple directly expressed options" presented like + "Automatic Paritioning - Preserve Windows & Other Data", "Automatic - + Loose Existing Data", "Custom Partioning", "Custom Partition - Loose + Existing Data" (possibly a quick way to zero the partition table, + rather than delete them 1 by 1 would make this option redundant), "LVM + Automatic Paritioning - Preserving Data" & "LVM Automatic - Loose + Existing Data". + The language of creating & editting proposals, is clear if you know the + implementation of the installation partitioner, but not to the end + user. #16: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-11 15:56:41) What exactly should be done in this feature? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Robert Davies (robopensuse) Feature #305716, revision 13 Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) reject date: 2009-08-21 13:41:17 reject reason: In focus for openSUSE 11.3 Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. #15: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) (2009-02-06 14:41:43) What about adopting the installation proposal layout to the partitioning during installation? See http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Partitioner_proposal.png for a mock up #18: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-12 12:08:25) (reply to #15) The Language used "Create" "Edit" Partitioning proposals is confusing to those not regularly installiung systems. A line saying "Create Partition Based Proposal (change)" is exactly the type of option that leaves reviewers scratching their heads. Can't their be "simple directly expressed options" presented like "Automatic Paritioning - Preserve Windows & Other Data", "Automatic - Loose Existing Data", "Custom Partioning", "Custom Partition - Loose Existing Data" (possibly a quick way to zero the partition table, rather than delete them 1 by 1 would make this option redundant), "LVM Automatic Paritioning - Preserving Data" & "LVM Automatic - Loose Existing Data". The language of creating & editting proposals, is clear if you know the implementation of the installation partitioner, but not to the end user. #16: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-11 15:56:41) What exactly should be done in this feature? + #19: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 17:55:24) + More evidence on point made in Bug #461819, about Create/Edit being + confusing https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819 + (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819) + Is in this review http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116 + (http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116) + Please when you Install Kubuntu, whilst the Paritioner is less + efficient and inferior to YaST Tool, at least they are Clear and Direct + beforehand, so someone not familiar with openSUSE Install is less + confused. This 'confusing and quirky' installer crops up in very many + reviews of the product. + Kubuntu-9.10 have Clear Options like suggested in #18, and it's these + small details which are causing technically superior tools not to be + appreciated. Developers should look at what they do. + Personally I think YaST partition is so good now (how much did it cost + to develeop) I wonder why access to it isn't made more directly + available rather than hidden. + May be the problem of 'scary options' being presented to Noobs caould + be avoided, by having a Global Export Mode, which could hide confusing + info about blowfish etc to, which also often is commented on. + Noobs can and should have common use cases presented simply in non- + technical terms, like 'Shrink windows', 'Use free space'; 'Re-cycle + partitions X, Y, Z for /, /home and swap destroying the old data' and + 'Use whole disk destroying all data'. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Robert Davies (robopensuse) Feature #305716, revision 14 Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) reject date: 2009-08-21 13:41:17 reject reason: In focus for openSUSE 11.3 Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. #15: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) (2009-02-06 14:41:43) What about adopting the installation proposal layout to the partitioning during installation? See http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Partitioner_proposal.png for a mock up #18: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-12 12:08:25) (reply to #15) The Language used "Create" "Edit" Partitioning proposals is confusing to those not regularly installiung systems. A line saying "Create Partition Based Proposal (change)" is exactly the type of option that leaves reviewers scratching their heads. Can't their be "simple directly expressed options" presented like "Automatic Paritioning - Preserve Windows & Other Data", "Automatic - Loose Existing Data", "Custom Partioning", "Custom Partition - Loose Existing Data" (possibly a quick way to zero the partition table, rather than delete them 1 by 1 would make this option redundant), "LVM Automatic Paritioning - Preserving Data" & "LVM Automatic - Loose Existing Data". The language of creating & editting proposals, is clear if you know the implementation of the installation partitioner, but not to the end user. #16: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-11 15:56:41) What exactly should be done in this feature? #19: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 17:55:24) More evidence on point made in Bug #461819, about Create/Edit being confusing https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819 (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819) Is in this review http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116 (http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116) Please when you Install Kubuntu, whilst the Paritioner is less efficient and inferior to YaST Tool, at least they are Clear and Direct beforehand, so someone not familiar with openSUSE Install is less confused. This 'confusing and quirky' installer crops up in very many reviews of the product. Kubuntu-9.10 have Clear Options like suggested in #18, and it's these small details which are causing technically superior tools not to be appreciated. Developers should look at what they do. Personally I think YaST partition is so good now (how much did it cost to develeop) I wonder why access to it isn't made more directly available rather than hidden. May be the problem of 'scary options' being presented to Noobs caould be avoided, by having a Global Export Mode, which could hide confusing info about blowfish etc to, which also often is commented on. Noobs can and should have common use cases presented simply in non- technical terms, like 'Shrink windows', 'Use free space'; 'Re-cycle partitions X, Y, Z for /, /home and swap destroying the old data' and 'Use whole disk destroying all data'. + #20: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 19:15:20) + Missed another point - After sizing new partition (entering MB or + cylinder region), on filesystem format & mount option screen, it would + be useful to have the Partiton device and information visible, as an + aide memoire and to allow catching errors early, rather than later + reviewing the whole disk, which might entail deleting many items, to + correct the mistake. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Mindaugas Baranauskas (embar-) Feature #305716, revision 15 Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) reject date: 2009-08-21 13:41:17 reject reason: In focus for openSUSE 11.3 Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. #15: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) (2009-02-06 14:41:43) What about adopting the installation proposal layout to the partitioning during installation? See http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Partitioner_proposal.png for a mock up #18: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-12 12:08:25) (reply to #15) The Language used "Create" "Edit" Partitioning proposals is confusing to those not regularly installiung systems. A line saying "Create Partition Based Proposal (change)" is exactly the type of option that leaves reviewers scratching their heads. Can't their be "simple directly expressed options" presented like "Automatic Paritioning - Preserve Windows & Other Data", "Automatic - Loose Existing Data", "Custom Partioning", "Custom Partition - Loose Existing Data" (possibly a quick way to zero the partition table, rather than delete them 1 by 1 would make this option redundant), "LVM Automatic Paritioning - Preserving Data" & "LVM Automatic - Loose Existing Data". The language of creating & editting proposals, is clear if you know the implementation of the installation partitioner, but not to the end user. #16: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-11 15:56:41) What exactly should be done in this feature? #19: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 17:55:24) More evidence on point made in Bug #461819, about Create/Edit being confusing https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819 (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819) Is in this review http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116 (http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116) Please when you Install Kubuntu, whilst the Paritioner is less efficient and inferior to YaST Tool, at least they are Clear and Direct beforehand, so someone not familiar with openSUSE Install is less confused. This 'confusing and quirky' installer crops up in very many reviews of the product. Kubuntu-9.10 have Clear Options like suggested in #18, and it's these small details which are causing technically superior tools not to be appreciated. Developers should look at what they do. Personally I think YaST partition is so good now (how much did it cost to develeop) I wonder why access to it isn't made more directly available rather than hidden. May be the problem of 'scary options' being presented to Noobs caould be avoided, by having a Global Export Mode, which could hide confusing info about blowfish etc to, which also often is commented on. Noobs can and should have common use cases presented simply in non- technical terms, like 'Shrink windows', 'Use free space'; 'Re-cycle partitions X, Y, Z for /, /home and swap destroying the old data' and 'Use whole disk destroying all data'. #20: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 19:15:20) Missed another point - After sizing new partition (entering MB or cylinder region), on filesystem format & mount option screen, it would be useful to have the Partiton device and information visible, as an aide memoire and to allow catching errors early, rather than later reviewing the whole disk, which might entail deleting many items, to correct the mistake. + #21: Mindaugas Baranauskas (embar-) (2009-11-23 04:37:52) + + https://features.opensuse.org/308378 is a bit related: + We could have both: traditional partioning for experts and more + grafical, very simple for beginers (a bit like Mandriva) + -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Stephan Kulow (coolo) Feature #305716, revision 16 Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) reject date: 2009-08-21 13:41:17 reject reason: In focus for openSUSE 11.3 Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. #15: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) (2009-02-06 14:41:43) What about adopting the installation proposal layout to the partitioning during installation? See http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Partitioner_proposal.png for a mock up #18: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-12 12:08:25) (reply to #15) The Language used "Create" "Edit" Partitioning proposals is confusing to those not regularly installiung systems. A line saying "Create Partition Based Proposal (change)" is exactly the type of option that leaves reviewers scratching their heads. Can't their be "simple directly expressed options" presented like "Automatic Paritioning - Preserve Windows & Other Data", "Automatic - Loose Existing Data", "Custom Partioning", "Custom Partition - Loose Existing Data" (possibly a quick way to zero the partition table, rather than delete them 1 by 1 would make this option redundant), "LVM Automatic Paritioning - Preserving Data" & "LVM Automatic - Loose Existing Data". The language of creating & editting proposals, is clear if you know the implementation of the installation partitioner, but not to the end user. #16: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-11 15:56:41) What exactly should be done in this feature? #19: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 17:55:24) More evidence on point made in Bug #461819, about Create/Edit being confusing https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819 (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819) Is in this review http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116 (http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116) Please when you Install Kubuntu, whilst the Paritioner is less efficient and inferior to YaST Tool, at least they are Clear and Direct beforehand, so someone not familiar with openSUSE Install is less confused. This 'confusing and quirky' installer crops up in very many reviews of the product. Kubuntu-9.10 have Clear Options like suggested in #18, and it's these small details which are causing technically superior tools not to be appreciated. Developers should look at what they do. Personally I think YaST partition is so good now (how much did it cost to develeop) I wonder why access to it isn't made more directly available rather than hidden. May be the problem of 'scary options' being presented to Noobs caould be avoided, by having a Global Export Mode, which could hide confusing info about blowfish etc to, which also often is commented on. Noobs can and should have common use cases presented simply in non- technical terms, like 'Shrink windows', 'Use free space'; 'Re-cycle partitions X, Y, Z for /, /home and swap destroying the old data' and 'Use whole disk destroying all data'. #20: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 19:15:20) Missed another point - After sizing new partition (entering MB or cylinder region), on filesystem format & mount option screen, it would be useful to have the Partiton device and information visible, as an aide memoire and to allow catching errors early, rather than later reviewing the whole disk, which might entail deleting many items, to correct the mistake. #21: Mindaugas Baranauskas (embar-) (2009-11-23 04:37:52) - https://features.opensuse.org/308378 is a bit related: We could have both: traditional partioning for experts and more grafical, very simple for beginers (a bit like Mandriva) - -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Christoph Thiel (cthiel1) Feature #305716, revision 17 Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) reject date: 2009-08-21 13:41:17 reject reason: In focus for openSUSE 11.3 Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important + Projectmanager: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. #15: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) (2009-02-06 14:41:43) What about adopting the installation proposal layout to the partitioning during installation? See http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Partitioner_proposal.png for a mock up #18: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-12 12:08:25) (reply to #15) The Language used "Create" "Edit" Partitioning proposals is confusing to those not regularly installiung systems. A line saying "Create Partition Based Proposal (change)" is exactly the type of option that leaves reviewers scratching their heads. Can't their be "simple directly expressed options" presented like "Automatic Paritioning - Preserve Windows & Other Data", "Automatic - Loose Existing Data", "Custom Partioning", "Custom Partition - Loose Existing Data" (possibly a quick way to zero the partition table, rather than delete them 1 by 1 would make this option redundant), "LVM Automatic Paritioning - Preserving Data" & "LVM Automatic - Loose Existing Data". The language of creating & editting proposals, is clear if you know the implementation of the installation partitioner, but not to the end user. #16: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-11 15:56:41) What exactly should be done in this feature? #19: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 17:55:24) More evidence on point made in Bug #461819, about Create/Edit being confusing https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819 (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819) Is in this review http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116 (http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116) Please when you Install Kubuntu, whilst the Paritioner is less efficient and inferior to YaST Tool, at least they are Clear and Direct beforehand, so someone not familiar with openSUSE Install is less confused. This 'confusing and quirky' installer crops up in very many reviews of the product. Kubuntu-9.10 have Clear Options like suggested in #18, and it's these small details which are causing technically superior tools not to be appreciated. Developers should look at what they do. Personally I think YaST partition is so good now (how much did it cost to develeop) I wonder why access to it isn't made more directly available rather than hidden. May be the problem of 'scary options' being presented to Noobs caould be avoided, by having a Global Export Mode, which could hide confusing info about blowfish etc to, which also often is commented on. Noobs can and should have common use cases presented simply in non- technical terms, like 'Shrink windows', 'Use free space'; 'Re-cycle partitions X, Y, Z for /, /home and swap destroying the old data' and 'Use whole disk destroying all data'. #20: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 19:15:20) Missed another point - After sizing new partition (entering MB or cylinder region), on filesystem format & mount option screen, it would be useful to have the Partiton device and information visible, as an aide memoire and to allow catching errors early, rather than later reviewing the whole disk, which might entail deleting many items, to correct the mistake. #21: Mindaugas Baranauskas (embar-) (2009-11-23 04:37:52) https://features.opensuse.org/308378 is a bit related: We could have both: traditional partioning for experts and more grafical, very simple for beginers (a bit like Mandriva) -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
(4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, > who mostly do not know anything about Servers Well, that does not necessarily be true according to other requests I see:-) But I agree that the "less advanced users" have to be covered in
[...] This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major > GNU/Linux distributions. [...] Well, you might simply avoid those type of comments, please, as it weakens your very valid points above and below ( because people might become angry ). (6)(6)Propose: > [...] Instead of your proposal let me post a proposal I wrote roughly 2 years ago here in bugzilla (closed bug); in meta-programming-language (and covering also datacenter use e.g. of SLES product): if( SAN-storage-found ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( num-of- harddisks > 1 ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( only-one-windows-
Feature changed by: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) Feature #305716, revision 19 Title: Disk partitioning under installation openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) reject date: 2009-08-21 13:41:17 reject reason: In focus for openSUSE 11.3 Priority Requester: Important - openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation by engineering manager + openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) + reject date: 2013-03-05 13:37:16 + reject reason: was not done for 11.3 Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important Requested by: Sebastian Furdal (resus) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: We all know, that openSUSE as a default wants use on its own entire disk. This is VERRY BAD setting. On this website exist a pool: http://suse.ehelp.pl/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=24 POLISH: Czy os11 powinien miec przy instalacji mozliwosc wyboru, na ktorej partycji zainstalować system? ENGLISH: Should os11 installation program have make a choice on what partition install the system? 94% users sad YES (tak) Try my proposal... "See the attachments" Relations: - [openSUSE 11.1] Disk partitioning under installation (Disk) (novell/bugzilla/id: 383886) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383886 Discussion: #1: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:36:23) Created an attachment (id=210574) Disk (GIMP) #2: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-25 12:37:01) Created an attachment (id=210575) Button "create" #3: Arvin Schnell (aschnell) (2008-04-28 03:44:40) Something for PM to decide. #4: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-04-28 04:10:30) Actually this fits the feedback I got during fosdem - the _HUGE_ majority of (power) users has to change the proposal. But the "Create" and "Edit" buttons are already more prominently as they were in previous releases. This was on the behalf of this feedback. #5: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-04-28 07:47:26) Created an attachment (id=210885) Version 2 #6: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-04-29 04:06:15) I do not completly understand the request, I fear:-( Is it (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? (3) or about both? I personally have a rather "sophisticated" partitioning (people say: "crazy"), thus I am planning to propose a LVM based partitioning as one (!) option (and default for our Enterprise Server product) with roughly (!) this layout. /dev/sda1 /boot /dev/sda2 /swap /dev/sda3 # system VG / /usr /opt /var /dev/sda4 # data VG /tmp /home /srv This more or less resembles the defaults of Unix/BSD systems. As said: it is the "extended" variant of what I can imagine for systems, where Linux is allowed to control the whole harddisk. For systems with shared windows partitions the layout should be different. And suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Proposals? Thanks in advance - so long - MgE #8: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-05-01 02:19:50) (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one OS on one computer? [sarcasm] (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. (3)(3)Yap (4)(4)but openSUSE is mostly installed by less advanced users, who mostly do not know anything about Servers (5)(5)Most people on the world have a Windows and they install GNU/Linux with curiosity, and GNU/Linux should not propose to delete their favorite system and all precious data that where collected for years. This is something that makes openSUSE behind almost all major GNU/Linux distributions. And even I do not use Windows, but GNU/Linux (doesn't matter if its not openSUSE/SUSE) but I want check this distro [...] (6)(6)Propose: 1. After detecting disks and partitions Yast2 should propose mount points for all existed partitions. 2. When it finds completely free partition (doesn't matter with what file system - sometimes users prepare before installation free partition under different OS for a new system) OR/AND unallocated space with more size than installation required it should mark it with a green color – that on this partition/space You can install openSUSE with options /boot, /swap, /, /usr, ... etc. 3. When it doesn't find good partition then it should ask “Create automatic disk partitioning?”. a) YES - Automatically create partition setup for home users (example only with “/” and “/home” and ”/boot” - boot is very important for grub, because for example when a user delete under windows Linux partition grub is still in the MBR but it cant find config files - “OH MY GOD, LOOK LINUX DESTROYED MY SYSTEM – I WILL NEVER USE LINIX AGAIN” and most people do not know anything about windows installation “fixmbr”) - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] - Automatically create partition setup for server - ALL DATA WILL BE LOST [red color] b) NO - Edit partition setup (all proposed mount points in step 1. should remain even without “/” but whit red warning “To install openSUSE You have to create partition with minimal size $MINIMAL_INSTALLATION_SIZE GB”). #9: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-06 20:56:51) Hello and thanks for the answers. Please see my comments below.? (In reply to comment #8 from Sebastian Furdal) > > (1) about leaving space for windows or other OSes? > (1)(1)does the idea of „automatic partitioning” is to make monopoly in one > OS on one computer? [sarcasm] I agree: I have at least 3 openSUSE/SLES systems on my systems, and every fresh installation tries to kill my "vg_data". This is just annoying and will be fixed. > > (2) or about _how_ the Linux partitioning should look like? > (2)(2)Yes, its only a proposal, more details I can make in some free time. I also have some ideas there, ... the most save way. partition_on( first_harddisk ) ) { # case 2 below partitioning-with- shrink( first_harddisk ) | expert-partitioning(); } else if( some- partitions-but-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ){ # case 3 below partitioning-without-shrink-or-delete_on (first_harddisk ) | expert- partitioning(); } else if( some-partitions-but-no-free-space_on( first_harddisk ) ) { expert-partitioning(); } else if( multiple- existing-OSes-found ){ expert-partitioning(); } else { # empty harddisk, case 1 below default-partitioning(); } I would like to see that a little bit less complex, but I hope it could be a good start; I also hope we can agree that there are only three relatively "safe" & easy cases: 1. one empty harddisk 2. one harddisk full with another OS (most probably windows) 3. (at least) one (bigger) empty primary partition on first harddisk Everything else needs "knowledge" by the person in front of the computer, i.e. an "expert partitioner" YaST module to support this person, HTH - MgE #10: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2008-05-26 06:19:13) What do you think? #11: Sebastian Furdal (resus) (2008-07-20 03:40:24) I think advanced partitioning should be rewritten, sometimes it is to complicated ... Your proposal is good but openSUSE should automatically propose simple and automatic solutions ... such as: - propose partitions where oS could be installed - propose automatic mount points - propose some profiles of partitioning etc. What You think? #12: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2008-10-24 05:24:05) Information was provided. #13: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) (2009-01-21 11:57:03) Moved to openFATE from bugzilla. Let's proceed for openSUSE 11.2 based on what we have in openSUSE 11.1. #14: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-02-03 18:21:57) On LVM it does not support barriers used by fs journals, which for ext3 in SuSE are enabled (but not by most distros). If a Windows type system is detected, I suggest default to resize. If previous Linux, I would offer to 'edit' the current setup, or use whole disk, as it is hard (impossible?) to make good guesses on behalf experienced user. #15: Martin Schmidkunz (mschmidkunz) (2009-02-06 14:41:43) What about adopting the installation proposal layout to the partitioning during installation? See http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Partitioner_proposal.png for a mock up #18: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-12 12:08:25) (reply to #15) The Language used "Create" "Edit" Partitioning proposals is confusing to those not regularly installiung systems. A line saying "Create Partition Based Proposal (change)" is exactly the type of option that leaves reviewers scratching their heads. Can't their be "simple directly expressed options" presented like "Automatic Paritioning - Preserve Windows & Other Data", "Automatic - Loose Existing Data", "Custom Partioning", "Custom Partition - Loose Existing Data" (possibly a quick way to zero the partition table, rather than delete them 1 by 1 would make this option redundant), "LVM Automatic Paritioning - Preserving Data" & "LVM Automatic - Loose Existing Data". The language of creating & editting proposals, is clear if you know the implementation of the installation partitioner, but not to the end user. #16: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-11 15:56:41) What exactly should be done in this feature? #19: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 17:55:24) More evidence on point made in Bug #461819, about Create/Edit being confusing https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819 (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461819) Is in this review http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116 (http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20091116) Please when you Install Kubuntu, whilst the Paritioner is less efficient and inferior to YaST Tool, at least they are Clear and Direct beforehand, so someone not familiar with openSUSE Install is less confused. This 'confusing and quirky' installer crops up in very many reviews of the product. Kubuntu-9.10 have Clear Options like suggested in #18, and it's these small details which are causing technically superior tools not to be appreciated. Developers should look at what they do. Personally I think YaST partition is so good now (how much did it cost to develeop) I wonder why access to it isn't made more directly available rather than hidden. May be the problem of 'scary options' being presented to Noobs caould be avoided, by having a Global Export Mode, which could hide confusing info about blowfish etc to, which also often is commented on. Noobs can and should have common use cases presented simply in non- technical terms, like 'Shrink windows', 'Use free space'; 'Re-cycle partitions X, Y, Z for /, /home and swap destroying the old data' and 'Use whole disk destroying all data'. #20: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-11-16 19:15:20) Missed another point - After sizing new partition (entering MB or cylinder region), on filesystem format & mount option screen, it would be useful to have the Partiton device and information visible, as an aide memoire and to allow catching errors early, rather than later reviewing the whole disk, which might entail deleting many items, to correct the mistake. #21: Mindaugas Baranauskas (embar-) (2009-11-23 04:37:52) https://features.opensuse.org/308378 is a bit related: We could have both: traditional partioning for experts and more grafical, very simple for beginers (a bit like Mandriva) -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305716
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