[openFATE 307496] return to having no default desktop environment
Feature added by: Christian Jäger (eet) Feature #307496, revision 1 Title: return to having no default desktop environment openSUSE-11.3: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub-communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
Feature changed by: Sankar P (psankar) Feature #307496, revision 3 Title: return to having no default desktop environment openSUSE-11.3: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub- communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic + Discussion: + #1: Sankar P (psankar) (2009-08-24 10:27:26) + I fully support this scenario. + But a minority of community memebrs assuming that their biased opinion + is what is liked by the user is wrong. The current decision to have KDE + as default will drive away a lot of distro-neutral Gnome people from + giving away openSUSE DVDs for linux talks. etc. + However, enough time has been wasted in all these discussions that I + feel no use in prolonging this thread any further, if the decision is + immutable. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
Feature changed by: David Hodgson (jetojedno) Feature #307496, revision 4 Title: return to having no default desktop environment openSUSE-11.3: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub- communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic Discussion: #1: Sankar P (psankar) (2009-08-24 10:27:26) I fully support this scenario. But a minority of community memebrs assuming that their biased opinion is what is liked by the user is wrong. The current decision to have KDE as default will drive away a lot of distro-neutral Gnome people from giving away openSUSE DVDs for linux talks. etc. However, enough time has been wasted in all these discussions that I feel no use in prolonging this thread any further, if the decision is immutable. + #2: David Hodgson (jetojedno) (2009-08-24 11:51:59) + The default benefits the new users, and doesn't harm anyone else. Why + should this decision be revisited? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
Feature changed by: Michael Löffler (michl19) Feature #307496, revision 5 Title: return to having no default desktop environment - openSUSE-11.3: Unconfirmed + openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Michael Löffler (michl19) + reject date: 2009-08-24 12:07:53 + reject reason: we shouldn't discuss things endless Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub- communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic Discussion: #1: Sankar P (psankar) (2009-08-24 10:27:26) I fully support this scenario. But a minority of community memebrs assuming that their biased opinion is what is liked by the user is wrong. The current decision to have KDE as default will drive away a lot of distro-neutral Gnome people from giving away openSUSE DVDs for linux talks. etc. However, enough time has been wasted in all these discussions that I feel no use in prolonging this thread any further, if the decision is immutable. #2: David Hodgson (jetojedno) (2009-08-24 11:51:59) The default benefits the new users, and doesn't harm anyone else. Why should this decision be revisited? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
Feature changed by: Christian Jäger (eet) Feature #307496, revision 6 Title: return to having no default desktop environment openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Michael Löffler (michl19) reject date: 2009-08-24 12:07:53 reject reason: we shouldn't discuss things endless Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub- communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic Discussion: #1: Sankar P (psankar) (2009-08-24 10:27:26) I fully support this scenario. But a minority of community memebrs assuming that their biased opinion is what is liked by the user is wrong. The current decision to have KDE as default will drive away a lot of distro-neutral Gnome people from giving away openSUSE DVDs for linux talks. etc. However, enough time has been wasted in all these discussions that I feel no use in prolonging this thread any further, if the decision is immutable. #2: David Hodgson (jetojedno) (2009-08-24 11:51:59) The default benefits the new users, and doesn't harm anyone else. Why should this decision be revisited? + #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2009-08-24 12:19:45) + Note that this is a request for 11.3, not for 11.2 which has been + decided to default to KDE. + + So, I don't understand that this feature request should be rejected. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
Feature changed by: Tomi Justen (letkume) Feature #307496, revision 7 Title: return to having no default desktop environment openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Michael Löffler (michl19) reject date: 2009-08-24 12:07:53 reject reason: we shouldn't discuss things endless Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub- communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic Discussion: #1: Sankar P (psankar) (2009-08-24 10:27:26) I fully support this scenario. But a minority of community memebrs assuming that their biased opinion is what is liked by the user is wrong. The current decision to have KDE as default will drive away a lot of distro-neutral Gnome people from giving away openSUSE DVDs for linux talks. etc. However, enough time has been wasted in all these discussions that I feel no use in prolonging this thread any further, if the decision is immutable. #2: David Hodgson (jetojedno) (2009-08-24 11:51:59) The default benefits the new users, and doesn't harm anyone else. Why should this decision be revisited? #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2009-08-24 12:19:45) Note that this is a request for 11.3, not for 11.2 which has been decided to default to KDE. So, I don't understand that this feature request should be rejected. + #4: Tomi Justen (letkume) (2009-08-24 15:47:02) + The choises are: + 1. Credible and professional well supported KDE distro + 2. Just anothet newbie Gnome distro + 3. Scattered not-so-well supported blob of everything -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
Feature changed by: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) Feature #307496, revision 8 Title: return to having no default desktop environment openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Michael Löffler (michl19) reject date: 2009-08-24 12:07:53 reject reason: we shouldn't discuss things endless Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub- communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic Discussion: #1: Sankar P (psankar) (2009-08-24 10:27:26) I fully support this scenario. But a minority of community memebrs assuming that their biased opinion is what is liked by the user is wrong. The current decision to have KDE as default will drive away a lot of distro-neutral Gnome people from giving away openSUSE DVDs for linux talks. etc. However, enough time has been wasted in all these discussions that I feel no use in prolonging this thread any further, if the decision is immutable. #2: David Hodgson (jetojedno) (2009-08-24 11:51:59) The default benefits the new users, and doesn't harm anyone else. Why should this decision be revisited? #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2009-08-24 12:19:45) Note that this is a request for 11.3, not for 11.2 which has been decided to default to KDE. So, I don't understand that this feature request should be rejected. #4: Tomi Justen (letkume) (2009-08-24 15:47:02) The choises are: 1. Credible and professional well supported KDE distro 2. Just anothet newbie Gnome distro 3. Scattered not-so-well supported blob of everything + #5: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2009-08-25 02:20:24) + The best application is criteria that should be followed, not the + desktop. I'm against going back to "no preselection", as it is + directly opposite to being helpful to new users. The majority + of distros that I ever installed makes this particular decision without + asking user and without giving a chance to install another desktop. Why + is it a problem when openSUSE goes from layout that can be perceived as + yet another problem by many new users, to layout that gives some + guidance? + Besides the guidance/default is defined as what majority of openSUSE + users is using, so it can change in the future without lenghty + discussions. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
Feature changed by: jimbo bigcreed (Dimble_ThriceFoon) Feature #307496, revision 9 Title: return to having no default desktop environment openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Michael Löffler (michl19) reject date: 2009-08-24 12:07:53 reject reason: we shouldn't discuss things endless Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub- communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic Discussion: #1: Sankar P (psankar) (2009-08-24 10:27:26) I fully support this scenario. But a minority of community memebrs assuming that their biased opinion is what is liked by the user is wrong. The current decision to have KDE as default will drive away a lot of distro-neutral Gnome people from giving away openSUSE DVDs for linux talks. etc. However, enough time has been wasted in all these discussions that I feel no use in prolonging this thread any further, if the decision is immutable. #2: David Hodgson (jetojedno) (2009-08-24 11:51:59) The default benefits the new users, and doesn't harm anyone else. Why should this decision be revisited? #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2009-08-24 12:19:45) Note that this is a request for 11.3, not for 11.2 which has been decided to default to KDE. So, I don't understand that this feature request should be rejected. #4: Tomi Justen (letkume) (2009-08-24 15:47:02) The choises are: 1. Credible and professional well supported KDE distro 2. Just anothet newbie Gnome distro 3. Scattered not-so-well supported blob of everything #5: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2009-08-25 02:20:24) The best application is criteria that should be followed, not the desktop. I'm against going back to "no preselection", as it is directly opposite to being helpful to new users. The majority of distros that I ever installed makes this particular decision without asking user and without giving a chance to install another desktop. Why is it a problem when openSUSE goes from layout that can be perceived as yet another problem by many new users, to layout that gives some guidance? Besides the guidance/default is defined as what majority of openSUSE users is using, so it can change in the future without lenghty discussions. + #6: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-08-25 17:41:29) + we need a default, but i fully support choosing whatever DE happens to + be the most popular for each release of opensuse. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
Feature changed by: Markus K (KAMiKAZOW) Feature #307496, revision 10 Title: return to having no default desktop environment openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Michael Löffler (michl19) reject date: 2009-08-24 12:07:53 reject reason: we shouldn't discuss things endless Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub- communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic Discussion: #1: Sankar P (psankar) (2009-08-24 10:27:26) I fully support this scenario. But a minority of community memebrs assuming that their biased opinion is what is liked by the user is wrong. The current decision to have KDE as default will drive away a lot of distro-neutral Gnome people from giving away openSUSE DVDs for linux talks. etc. However, enough time has been wasted in all these discussions that I feel no use in prolonging this thread any further, if the decision is immutable. #2: David Hodgson (jetojedno) (2009-08-24 11:51:59) The default benefits the new users, and doesn't harm anyone else. Why should this decision be revisited? #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2009-08-24 12:19:45) Note that this is a request for 11.3, not for 11.2 which has been decided to default to KDE. So, I don't understand that this feature request should be rejected. #4: Tomi Justen (letkume) (2009-08-24 15:47:02) The choises are: 1. Credible and professional well supported KDE distro 2. Just anothet newbie Gnome distro 3. Scattered not-so-well supported blob of everything #5: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2009-08-25 02:20:24) The best application is criteria that should be followed, not the desktop. I'm against going back to "no preselection", as it is directly opposite to being helpful to new users. The majority of distros that I ever installed makes this particular decision without asking user and without giving a chance to install another desktop. Why is it a problem when openSUSE goes from layout that can be perceived as yet another problem by many new users, to layout that gives some guidance? Besides the guidance/default is defined as what majority of openSUSE users is using, so it can change in the future without lenghty discussions. #6: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-08-25 17:41:29) we need a default, but i fully support choosing whatever DE happens to be the most popular for each release of opensuse. + #7: Markus K (kamikazow) (2009-08-28 18:25:08) + The decision to make KDE default was a democratic one. Your other + request https://features.opensuse.org/307495 shows that you just hate + KDE. If you realy hate KDE that much and think that Ubuntu is the + poster child anyway, just go to Ubuntu. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
Feature changed by: Stephen Shaw (decriptor) Feature #307496, revision 11 Title: return to having no default desktop environment openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Michael Löffler (michl19) reject date: 2009-08-24 12:07:53 reject reason: we shouldn't discuss things endless Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub- communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic Discussion: #1: Sankar P (psankar) (2009-08-24 10:27:26) I fully support this scenario. But a minority of community memebrs assuming that their biased opinion is what is liked by the user is wrong. The current decision to have KDE as default will drive away a lot of distro-neutral Gnome people from giving away openSUSE DVDs for linux talks. etc. However, enough time has been wasted in all these discussions that I feel no use in prolonging this thread any further, if the decision is immutable. #2: David Hodgson (jetojedno) (2009-08-24 11:51:59) The default benefits the new users, and doesn't harm anyone else. Why should this decision be revisited? #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2009-08-24 12:19:45) Note that this is a request for 11.3, not for 11.2 which has been decided to default to KDE. So, I don't understand that this feature request should be rejected. #4: Tomi Justen (letkume) (2009-08-24 15:47:02) The choises are: 1. Credible and professional well supported KDE distro 2. Just anothet newbie Gnome distro 3. Scattered not-so-well supported blob of everything #5: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2009-08-25 02:20:24) The best application is criteria that should be followed, not the desktop. I'm against going back to "no preselection", as it is directly opposite to being helpful to new users. The majority of distros that I ever installed makes this particular decision without asking user and without giving a chance to install another desktop. Why is it a problem when openSUSE goes from layout that can be perceived as yet another problem by many new users, to layout that gives some guidance? Besides the guidance/default is defined as what majority of openSUSE users is using, so it can change in the future without lenghty discussions. #6: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-08-25 17:41:29) we need a default, but i fully support choosing whatever DE happens to be the most popular for each release of opensuse. #7: Markus K (kamikazow) (2009-08-28 18:25:08) The decision to make KDE default was a democratic one. Your other request https://features.opensuse.org/307495 shows that you just hate KDE. If you realy hate KDE that much and think that Ubuntu is the poster child anyway, just go to Ubuntu. + #8: Stephen Shaw (decriptor) (2009-08-28 19:28:29) (reply to #7) + the only decision that was made was to preselect a radio button. If + you really want to contribute to something instead of trolling these + features why don't you join the #opensuse-kde on irc and contribute + their instead of with your mouth. If you are, I'm sure they have some + other things you can be better using your time with instead of telling + people to leave the openSUSE community. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
Feature changed by: Robert Davies (robopensuse) Feature #307496, revision 12 Title: return to having no default desktop environment openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Michael Löffler (michl19) reject date: 2009-08-24 12:07:53 reject reason: we shouldn't discuss things endless Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Christian Jäger (eet) Description: The recent decision that openSUSE needs a default desktop environment must be reverted. * This decision has lead to frictions between the openSUSE sub- communities of GNOME and KDE users which might ultimately result in a drain of supporters of one of these sub-communities to a different distribution. * A default choice during installation gives the wrong impression that even now openSUSE chiefly supports the defaulted desktop environment while the other one is to be used 'at one's own risk' * This decision has acutely affected openSUSE's position as the only distribution which credibly supports both desktop environment * The gains to be had through a 'default desktop environment' are minor to zero, the potential loss and damage to community caused by it is catastrophic Discussion: #1: Sankar P (psankar) (2009-08-24 10:27:26) I fully support this scenario. But a minority of community memebrs assuming that their biased opinion is what is liked by the user is wrong. The current decision to have KDE as default will drive away a lot of distro-neutral Gnome people from giving away openSUSE DVDs for linux talks. etc. However, enough time has been wasted in all these discussions that I feel no use in prolonging this thread any further, if the decision is immutable. #2: David Hodgson (jetojedno) (2009-08-24 11:51:59) The default benefits the new users, and doesn't harm anyone else. Why should this decision be revisited? #3: Christian Jäger (eet) (2009-08-24 12:19:45) Note that this is a request for 11.3, not for 11.2 which has been decided to default to KDE. So, I don't understand that this feature request should be rejected. #4: Tomi Justen (letkume) (2009-08-24 15:47:02) The choises are: 1. Credible and professional well supported KDE distro 2. Just anothet newbie Gnome distro 3. Scattered not-so-well supported blob of everything #5: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2009-08-25 02:20:24) The best application is criteria that should be followed, not the desktop. I'm against going back to "no preselection", as it is directly opposite to being helpful to new users. The majority of distros that I ever installed makes this particular decision without asking user and without giving a chance to install another desktop. Why is it a problem when openSUSE goes from layout that can be perceived as yet another problem by many new users, to layout that gives some guidance? Besides the guidance/default is defined as what majority of openSUSE users is using, so it can change in the future without lenghty discussions. #6: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-08-25 17:41:29) we need a default, but i fully support choosing whatever DE happens to be the most popular for each release of opensuse. #7: Markus K (kamikazow) (2009-08-28 18:25:08) The decision to make KDE default was a democratic one. Your other request https://features.opensuse.org/307495 shows that you just hate KDE. If you realy hate KDE that much and think that Ubuntu is the poster child anyway, just go to Ubuntu. #8: Stephen Shaw (decriptor) (2009-08-28 19:28:29) (reply to #7) the only decision that was made was to preselect a radio button. If you really want to contribute to something instead of trolling these features why don't you join the #opensuse-kde on irc and contribute their instead of with your mouth. If you are, I'm sure they have some other things you can be better using your time with instead of telling people to leave the openSUSE community. + #9: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-12-10 17:20:05) + Duplicates effectively another Fate request of GNOME fan, with nose put + out of joint. The default Desktop is a pre-selection and is convenient + for the majority of openSUSE users. + All the software is used "at own risk", even in commerical OS + environments like Windows and Mac OS X, so choosing an option implies + nothing. + Pre-selecting KDE has not harmed GNOME implementation at all, and + indeed the new theme has been reviewed and widely reported. + The potential loss to community is only if one of the requester's + minority wishes were successful and implemented, to the annoyance and + detriment of the majority of oS users! -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307496
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