Feature changed by: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) Feature #305296, revision 36 Title: Easy Way to Disable Beagle Completely During Installation openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: JP Rosevear (jproseve) Description: We need to either have beagle off by default and allow a user to enable it the first time they search or provide an install option to turn it off. Relations: - Better Beagle Acceptance (feature/id: 303367) - Easy way to disable beagle completely during install (novell/bugzilla/id: 282678) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2009-01-26 20:52:46) I prefer to start with disabled, offer option to run at first search. We are proliferating checkboxes in the installer too much. #8: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-02-10 15:32:39) (reply to #1) I wholehearty agree. Having specific applications in the installer is definitely something that we shouldn't do. Have it disabled by default and make it easy to enable. #9: Manuel Bejarano (mbejaranoc) (2009-02-11 09:29:51) (reply to #1) 100% agree #11: Jean-Daniel Dodin (jdd) (2009-02-15 10:12:29) (reply to #1) +1 #2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-29 23:40:17) I prefer a more sane option than disabling it by default... instead, allow the user to go in and uninstall it from the installation software screen, just as they would any other app (perhaps make 'Desktop Search' pattern, installed by default?) We just need to insure that uninstalling Beagle doesn't throw up any dependency errors. #3: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-01-30 00:16:23) Every single openSUSE install I've done has resulted in beagle being removed. It slows down the computer, and the firefox extension throws lots of errors. I'm quite happy with how easy it is to remove, and I can see why it's useful -- but unless its seriously improved, I think it should be removed (by default) #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-01-30 15:22:34) Maybe pulseaudio should be too, for slightly similar reasons. :) #5: Rastislav Krupansky (ra100) (2009-01-31 13:10:36) (reply to #4) exactly right ;-) #6: Thomas Beimel (rheydtergekko) (2009-02-01 16:22:09) Yes this would be an perfect option during installation. Especially because I prefer to have a new installation that consumes as less resources as possible. I do not need indexing service and I think many others as well. #7: Andri Andreas Priyanto (turtlix) (2009-02-05 11:20:44) I haven't use beagle since I install openSUSE, and maybe wouldn't or never But I don't know other user. I always remove beagle from my gnome-session-properties. #10: Johnny Stovall (oouc) (2009-02-11 22:50:14) Beagle should be disabled by default. Everyone in the DFW Linux Users Group complained when Suse added it. It causes nothing but trouble for me. #12: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-02-16 01:13:58) I agree with the people voting to disable it by default. I think we have to keep focus on the 'consumer' and most of them won't use Kerry/Beagle. ps. KDE4 -and- Beagle is useless. KDE4 uses Strigi and Nepomuk. #13: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-17 12:55:11) Despite all who now have voted for this proposal, I just have to vote against it. At least in the forms discussed here. I use Beagle heavily as do some other people I got convinced to use openSUSE instead of Windows. A good Desktop search was among the arguments to move these people to change their OS (others arguments were Deskbar etc... which btw. does not necessarily need Beagle but gets some interesting advantages IF Beagle is activated). Why not simply ask at startup how to configure some basic system defaults. Among them there could be beagle. So concerning the proposals of Federico Lucifredi, Stephan Kulow and so on, I am definitively of the same mind. Beagle should be installed by default, but it should be easy to switch it "on" or "off" whenever one wants. #14: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-18 01:05:18) (reply to #13) Yes, a search is very useful. Yes, some people find beagle beneficial (as apparently you do). But the vast majority (Currently the vote is at 47:1) of people it doesn't work well with. And that's truly an amazing statistic, as it's super easy to see and use the feature it provides but much harder to see that it's beagle causing so many (resource related) problems. And if that statistic alone isn't enough to convince you it's not a sensible default, then I have absolutely no idea how to. There really should be a resemblance of QA in place, especially for default (and completely optional) packages. + #15: Sebastian Rösgen (palimpseste) (2009-02-19 12:04:23) (reply to + #14) + Ok, I hope that my comment did not sound as gruff or ... brusque, for I, + basically, hoped to present a different opinion. What I did not intend + was to, evidently, irritate somebody by not completely assenting to his + opinion. + See: I am working for a university in Germany. We have 45.000 students + and a staff of employees of a size appropriate for this amount of + students. We rely heavily on the capabilities of a search system (to be + honest: in this case not beagle, but somethings similar to beagle). I + am one person who posts here but, to stay in your line of + argumentation, statistically I represent so many single individuals, + that my vote could be multiplied by a "pretty fight factor". Now the + problem is that most of these people just use a search feature but do + not understand of configure it. But they will notice when it is gone . + These users do not vote, they are not involved in community work, they + are not programmers, not system architects, not members of an online + community. But they use systems like beagle. I know, as I stated in my + first post, some people, which I got to switch their OS, from Windows + to openSUSE. These people will miss features, too. Especially if you + are so eager so simple remove this feature despite the fact that it was + part of the distribution for many years. + The more I write here, the angrier I get. I mentioned that Lucifredi + and Kulow are of another opinion (disable but no remove the software; + make it possible to switch it on or off when needed), an opinion I + agree with. Is it possible that YOU ignored that part? This is quite + normale for the usual open source community. To me it is a relatively + illusive concept, the more I deal with it (and I deal with it for now 9 + years) the more I learn about the ignorance it contains. Too many + people choose rather to ignore those who have to vote (usually called + users) and instead see their opinion as the ultimate measure to decide + pro and contra. Did it come to your mind that about 80-90% of those who + start to create an account for a portal like openFATE, who pay the time + to write some comments and skip through all these proposals in this + portal, that 80-90% of these people might perhaps be programmers? Geeks + and nerds as they are called nowadays. This is no real statistic + representing the opinion of those who use a software, it is a statistic + of those how develop a software. Make this clear to you. + So to get back on a rather rational level: I recognize that you are of + another opinion. That most of the people here are. But, and that was + important to me, these votes in here are not a real representation of + opinions. I prefer openSUSE after all these years espcially because it + was bought by Novell. Because they do research in usability, which is + the only real way to ask the customers/the users, how to design the + software. That is why I said, that an easy startup QA for the normal + user is the best to do. Do not be too ignorant. The users know what + they want, even if they miss some technical versatily, they will still + take note of features that are missing, of bugs in the browser, of + missing parts in the system "that they know worked on a different OS" + or whatever else. Perhaps they annot name the source of the problem and + do not know if it is a real design issue or a real bug. But they will + say that the feature is not how they expected it to be. + I recently said to a colleague of mine that the times of Mac OS are + nearly over. The only real advantage they have is that they can design + an OS without paying too much attention to different hardware. They + know exactly which hardware their OS will possible have to run on. If + Linux with a nice GNOME, KDE, or-whatever-desktop would run out of the + box on ANY posible hardware, with all features running without a + problem (Audio, Bluetooth, 3D Graphics are still a problem as we know) + it would be undeniable that Linux will be the winner. I see progress + made well into that direction. I see that Linux is close to this goal, + to solve these issues in nears time (most Graphic Cards now easily + work, with only a few exceptions). So please do not disappoint me. I + have to lead discussions about Linux/Windows and Linux/MacOSX nearly + every week. I do not want to have them led in vain. Look at what Mac + and Windows do, they have a search system with an index. Make ours + betters, faster and less memory hungry instead of removing it. These + who switch from Windows/Mac to Linux (for instance to openSUSE) want to + find new and more useful features instead of fewer features. + I know this post was too long. I am sorry, but it thought it + necessary. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/305296