Feature changed by: Will Stephenson (wstephenson) Feature #306967, revision 47 Title: KDE default openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Frank Karlitschek (frankkarlitschek) Description: I propose to make KDE the default desktop in openSUSE. - It is confusing for new Linux users if they have to decide between KDE and GNOME during the installation. New users don´t know either of them. So it is easier for beginners if there is a default. openSUSE has more KDE users than GNOME users so it is logical to make KDE the default. - Unique Selling Point. It is important for openSUSE to provide something that Ubuntu and Fedora don´t provide. It would be beneficial for openSUSE to be the only big KDE distribution. - This could attract more developers because KDE developers need a nice distribution to develop on. - This would increase the popularity of openSUSE in the KDE user community. The negative impact on the GNOME community is not that bad because Ubuntu is the most popular GNOME distribution. openSUSE should, of course, also ship and support GNOME. So experienced users can choose. But new users should have KDE as default. What do you think? Discussion: #1: Thomas Thym (ungethym) (2009-07-28 13:49:00) +1 Really great idea! I know many, many people searching for a good KDE distribution. If openSUSE can provide them a proper home both projects can earn great benefits. #2: Henrik Segesten (eldakkar) (2009-07-28 13:53:38) +1 #3: dd11 ss (jal111) (2009-07-28 13:58:50) yeah, it's time again for kde as default de! #4: Andreas Demmer (ademmer) (2009-07-28 14:05:56) KDE for teh win! :) #5: Ricardo Gabriel Berlasso (rgbsuse) (2009-07-28 14:15:23) My first Linux distro was SuSE 7.0 with kde 1. After that I used only kde and SuSE/openSUSE most of the time, BUT I don't agree with the idea of "kde as default desktop". Why? Simply. The greatest thing about openSUSE (I mean, after yast tool ;) ) is CHOICE: openSUSE is a flexible Linux system that allows users to tune everything in the most easy way. Setting a "default" is against that idea of "freedom". Even if I only use kde, and only recommend kde to new users, I'm proud of using a distro that permits anyone to think different from me. #6: Karsten König (remur) (2009-07-28 14:28:36) Just toggling KDE as default isn't going to change alot, more important would be getting out the message openSUSE ships a kick-ass KDE distribution, provides clean built KDE repositories, provides great developer resources like the BuildService and has a vibrant KDE community. I don't know about openSUSE:Gnome though, maybe it's the same there too, so that'd be a reason to stick to the current scheme and not drive these people away and do we really want to make these guys use Ubuntu? I'd prefer to get these people use KDE =) Btw, KDE sure deserves a top place in the opensuse distribution, I fully agree here. #7: Alan Prescott (fudokai) (2009-07-28 14:33:04) +1 - I'd always assumed that the change to Gnome was part of the move to Novell as a US company and their NIH syndrome. #8: Angelo Compagnucci (angelocompagnucci) (2009-07-28 14:40:34) +1 !!! #9: Ave Fenix (arxus) (2009-07-28 14:53:38) +1!! #10: Aru Sahni (arusahni) (2009-07-28 15:01:00) +1000! All but one of the SuSE users I know use KDE, and it is known for shipping a really well-put-together version of the DE. #11: MH Werner (fabrikat) (2009-07-28 15:08:19) +1 #12: Chris Schlaeger (cschlaeger) (2009-07-28 15:39:27) While I value the option to install GNOME, I don't think choice of a particular desktop belongs into the default installation workflow. It just complicates the installation and confuses first-time Linux users. The distro should have a default desktop that reflects the majority of their user base. For SUSE this has always been KDE. Even 4 years of politics did not seem to have changed this much. Opt for the future and go after Linux users that want a modern desktop that can also visually compete with Windows7 and MacOS X. Go KDE4! And for the rest, have a nicely packaged GNOME in the package selections. #13: Baltasar Ortega (baltolkien) (2009-07-28 15:40:56) I'm agree with this! Others distros don't ask you about the deskop! +1! #14: Stefan Kunze (kunzes) (2009-07-28 15:47:16) +1 but there is already the possibilty to integrate this. In the Installation workflow you have the possibility for automatic Installation - you can make it choose KDE4 and if you switch the automatic configuration off and select advanced you can have the choice between GNOME and KDE4 . #15: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-28 16:01:40) just to add some more facts to the disscussion. According to our last openSUSE user survey at http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/e/ec/Survey_openSUSE110.pdf question 11: Which user interface do you mainly use? GNOME 26,9%, KDE 68,3% question 15: Is using openSUSE 11.0 your first experience with Linux? Yes 6,1% So GNOME users are not that few and at least currently we don't have that many newbies. #16: José Oramas (jaom7) (2009-07-28 16:43:53) +1 The novell look and functionalties of KDE4 can significantly boost openSUSE; it is not new that KDE4 is not well suppported by some distros, being openSUSE one of the distros with ebetter KDE4 support. The default use KDE and an even better supporting KDE4 can be a better way to attract KDE users that are looking for a distro with even better KDE integration. In addition to this, it is known that, related with the GUI, it is easier for windows users to migrate to kde as is easier for Mac users to migrate to gnome, that's why openSUSE should focus on that bigger market, whichi is already being seduced by the experimental versions of plasma in KDE for windows. This fact, the existence of KDE for windows might help on a easier migration of users from windows to a kde-based distro which I think it should be openSUSE. #17: Andrew Wafaa (funkypenguin) (2009-07-28 16:57:24) -1 Frank, I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree. One of the beauties with openSUSE is that there is no bias given to any Desktop Environment. That goes for GNOME, KDE & XFCE. The choice is completely down to the user (as it should be). I am a big fan of KDE, and regularily participate with the openSUSE KDE community. Heck I even built netbook images with KDE4 for the community. I am also a fan of GNOME and XFCE. This is an old flamewar that should just be consigned to the sands of time. We should not force a DE on the user, the DVD as it stands basically tells the user "Hey you need to choose, what would you like?"; it does not tell the user "OK unless you know what you are doing take this!". There's a fine line between democratic and dictatorial choice. #18: Chris Vickery (chrisinajar) (2009-07-28 17:04:29) +1 The fact that more than twice as many people people choose to switch over the KDE than to stick with the current default alone is enough for me to think that changing the default is worth it. Follow the will of the user base. Changing over the default will inevitably increase support from the KDE developer and user community, which would benifit 68% of the users of openSUSE. If it were to change, and openSUSE became the cutting edge distro for KDE users, I know I would switch over from Kubuntu and give it a shot. #19: Joe Brockmeier (jbrockmeier) (2009-07-28 17:08:25) Other than making some kind of political statement, what would making KDE "the default" give us that having the KDE live CD doesn't? I'm confused here on what the actual upside would be. KDE users can choose KDE or the KDE Live CD, new users should not have (IMHO) a choice made for them. + #20: Will Stephenson (wstephenson) (2009-07-28 17:22:20) (reply to + #19) + It's purely a political statement, but one that would give us + * Focus + * Users + * Developers + (quoting the original request) -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306967