[opensuse-factory] Which milestone will have dracut configured for the first time installation
Hello all, Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation? Cheers! Roman ------------------------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Get it! Discover it! Share it! ------------------------------------------------------- http://linuxcounter.net/ #179293 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-07-09 at 22:17 -0400, Roman Bysh wrote:
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
When? has the "if" been decided already? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlHcyC8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VLHwCglJ/mIsftwGqiTgOtz8b5Nh7y GtgAoJhr1Zs43NjYBbP9MMRNPldHuX2S =4mKT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/09/2013 10:17 PM, Roman Bysh wrote:
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
that could be done at any time, HOWEVER , there are some obstacles in the road, a compatibility wrapper that accepts suse mkinitrd command line options will probably be requested/need/demanded. I maintain dracut myself but I will not write such wrapper (contributions welcome though) because I firmly believe the underlying tools that might expect these options have to be fixed instead. I don't want to encourage people to rely on the ilussion of compatibility. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
On 07/09/2013 10:17 PM, Roman Bysh wrote:
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
that could be done at any time, HOWEVER , there are some obstacles in the road, a compatibility wrapper that accepts suse mkinitrd command line options will probably be requested/need/demanded.
As long as dracut is feature-wise compatible with today's mkinitrd, I don't see a real need for a wrapper script. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (19.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mardi 09 juillet 2013 à 22:17 -0400, Roman Bysh a écrit :
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
When somebody take the responsibility to finish the job on "dracut" (and it seems nobody cares enough to do that :( -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/10/2013 03:58 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 09 juillet 2013 à 22:17 -0400, Roman Bysh a écrit :
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
When somebody take the responsibility to finish the job on "dracut" (and it seems nobody cares enough to do that :(
Who's maintaining dracut? Cheers! Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/10/2013 12:15 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
On 07/10/2013 11:50 AM, Roman Bysh wrote:
Who's maintaining dracut?
raymond and myself.
Do you think it's early enough to submit it (dracut) by Milestone 3 or 4? -- Cheers! Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 09 juillet 2013 à 22:17 -0400, Roman Bysh a écrit :
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
When somebody take the responsibility to finish the job on "dracut" (and it seems nobody cares enough to do that :(
The gain probably isn't worth the pain. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (25.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mercredi 10 juillet 2013 à 20:43 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 09 juillet 2013 à 22:17 -0400, Roman Bysh a écrit :
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
When somebody take the responsibility to finish the job on "dracut" (and it seems nobody cares enough to do that :(
The gain probably isn't worth the pain.
The gain is to have somebody actively maintaining the tool, which is currently not the case with mkinitrd (I'm not blaming the current maintainer) and even mkinitrd initial author (Hannes) is advocating to switch to dracut.. -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 7/11/2013 3:47 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mercredi 10 juillet 2013 à 20:43 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 09 juillet 2013 à 22:17 -0400, Roman Bysh a écrit :
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
When somebody take the responsibility to finish the job on "dracut" (and it seems nobody cares enough to do that :(
The gain probably isn't worth the pain.
The gain is to have somebody actively maintaining the tool, which is currently not the case with mkinitrd (I'm not blaming the current maintainer) and even mkinitrd initial author (Hannes) is advocating to switch to dracut..
I think what he meant was it isn't worth trying to hack full mkinitrd backwards compatibility into dracut or some dracut wrapper, not that it wasn't worth using dracut. And one of the maintainers of dracut just said on the list that they have no interest in adding mkinitrd compatibility onto dracut and will not waste his time doing it. So, you want to answer all the complaints from everyone who it turns out expects and uses mkinitrd outside of yast? -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le jeudi 11 juillet 2013 à 04:14 -0400, Brian K. White a écrit :
On 7/11/2013 3:47 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mercredi 10 juillet 2013 à 20:43 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 09 juillet 2013 à 22:17 -0400, Roman Bysh a écrit :
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
When somebody take the responsibility to finish the job on "dracut" (and it seems nobody cares enough to do that :(
The gain probably isn't worth the pain.
The gain is to have somebody actively maintaining the tool, which is currently not the case with mkinitrd (I'm not blaming the current maintainer) and even mkinitrd initial author (Hannes) is advocating to switch to dracut..
I think what he meant was it isn't worth trying to hack full mkinitrd backwards compatibility into dracut or some dracut wrapper, not that it wasn't worth using dracut.
But if we don't have a full wrapper, it means compatibility will be broken, causing bugs reports..
And one of the maintainers of dracut just said on the list that they have no interest in adding mkinitrd compatibility onto dracut and will not waste his time doing it.
So, you want to answer all the complaints from everyone who it turns out expects and uses mkinitrd outside of yast?
Not doing a full wrapper will cause exactly this. -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le jeudi 11 juillet 2013 à 04:14 -0400, Brian K. White a écrit :
On 7/11/2013 3:47 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mercredi 10 juillet 2013 à 20:43 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 09 juillet 2013 à 22:17 -0400, Roman Bysh a écrit :
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
When somebody take the responsibility to finish the job on "dracut" (and it seems nobody cares enough to do that :(
The gain probably isn't worth the pain.
The gain is to have somebody actively maintaining the tool, which is currently not the case with mkinitrd (I'm not blaming the current maintainer) and even mkinitrd initial author (Hannes) is advocating to switch to dracut..
I think what he meant was it isn't worth trying to hack full mkinitrd backwards compatibility into dracut or some dracut wrapper, not that it wasn't worth using dracut.
But if we don't have a full wrapper, it means compatibility will be broken, causing bugs reports..
It's none of my business, but it seems to me that if it's worth changing an element as essential as the creation of the initrd, the added effort of adapting other elements that depend on it, is also warranted. Personally I am more worried about the current set of functionalities of mkinitrd also being fully supported by dracut, but this might be completely misplaced. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.7°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Brian K. White wrote:
On 7/11/2013 3:47 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mercredi 10 juillet 2013 à 20:43 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 09 juillet 2013 à 22:17 -0400, Roman Bysh a écrit :
Hello all,
Does any one know when "dracut" will finally be configured for the default installation?
When somebody take the responsibility to finish the job on "dracut" (and it seems nobody cares enough to do that :(
The gain probably isn't worth the pain.
The gain is to have somebody actively maintaining the tool, which is currently not the case with mkinitrd (I'm not blaming the current maintainer) and even mkinitrd initial author (Hannes) is advocating to switch to dracut..
I think what he meant was it isn't worth trying to hack full mkinitrd backwards compatibility into dracut or some dracut wrapper, not that it wasn't worth using dracut.
Precisely. Thanks for clarifying, Brian. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 11, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mercredi 10 juillet 2013 à 20:43 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
The gain probably isn't worth the pain.
The gain is to have somebody actively maintaining the tool, which is currently not the case with mkinitrd (I'm not blaming the current maintainer) and even mkinitrd initial author (Hannes) is advocating to switch to dracut..
Wait a minute: what kind of maintenance is missing for our mkinitrd? Its not like mkinitrd.rpm is orphaned, IMO. Did anyone who advocates something other than mkinitrd activily look what mkinitrd (and other packages providing hooks for it) does and check if nothing is LOST!? I guess the answer is no. And those who advocate do not have to deal with the fallout, as usual.. Olaf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le jeudi 11 juillet 2013 à 10:57 +0200, Olaf Hering a écrit :
On Thu, Jul 11, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mercredi 10 juillet 2013 à 20:43 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
The gain probably isn't worth the pain.
The gain is to have somebody actively maintaining the tool, which is currently not the case with mkinitrd (I'm not blaming the current maintainer) and even mkinitrd initial author (Hannes) is advocating to switch to dracut..
Wait a minute: what kind of maintenance is missing for our mkinitrd? Its not like mkinitrd.rpm is orphaned, IMO.
Somebody either fixing bugs or accepting patches in a timely manner..
Did anyone who advocates something other than mkinitrd activily look what mkinitrd (and other packages providing hooks for it) does and check if nothing is LOST!? I guess the answer is no.
Your guess is wrong, I did the survey last year, see https://fate.suse.com/310491 (and Mike Gorse and me contributed during last year hackweek a cifs module to dracut, which was missing at that time).
And those who advocate do not have to deal with the fallout, as usual..
Why are you saying that ? -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 11, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le jeudi 11 juillet 2013 à 10:57 +0200, Olaf Hering a écrit :
On Thu, Jul 11, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mercredi 10 juillet 2013 à 20:43 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
The gain probably isn't worth the pain.
The gain is to have somebody actively maintaining the tool, which is currently not the case with mkinitrd (I'm not blaming the current maintainer) and even mkinitrd initial author (Hannes) is advocating to switch to dracut..
Wait a minute: what kind of maintenance is missing for our mkinitrd? Its not like mkinitrd.rpm is orphaned, IMO.
Somebody either fixing bugs or accepting patches in a timely manner..
gitorious.org did not send mails when a merge request happens, but luckily now it does. So the last change was applied fast. If there are outstanding bugs, cc me and I can help Michal to resolv it.
Did anyone who advocates something other than mkinitrd activily look what mkinitrd (and other packages providing hooks for it) does and check if nothing is LOST!? I guess the answer is no.
Your guess is wrong, I did the survey last year, see https://fate.suse.com/310491 (and Mike Gorse and me contributed during last year hackweek a cifs module to dracut, which was missing at that time).
I quickly browswed #310491, looks like you spent some time to collect a list of features. mkinitrd has likely gained some more features and fixes since you collected that list. In any case, before doing a switch it has to be rechecked again if nothing is lost. Olaf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
El 11/07/13 05:18, Olaf Hering escribió:
mkinitrd has likely gained some more features and fixes since you collected that list.
Other than creating more and more bloated initrds everyday and it being totally ignorant about systemd and slower than dracut. it has not gained anything good. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 11/07/13 05:18, Olaf Hering escribió:
mkinitrd has likely gained some more features and fixes since you collected that list.
Other than creating more and more bloated initrds everyday and it being totally ignorant about systemd and slower than dracut. it has not gained anything good.
On a test-system running 12.3: 1st attempt: Running dracut with the default options produced an initrd of 27Mb, more than 4 times bigger than the initrd made by mkinitrd. It took 50 seconds (mkinitrd took 10seconds). 2nd attempt: omitting a few modules created an initrd only 2.5times bigger and in only 35seconds. I'm working on figuring out what else to omit. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (19.2°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 12 juillet 2013 à 10:53 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 11/07/13 05:18, Olaf Hering escribió:
mkinitrd has likely gained some more features and fixes since you collected that list.
Other than creating more and more bloated initrds everyday and it being totally ignorant about systemd and slower than dracut. it has not gained anything good.
On a test-system running 12.3:
1st attempt: Running dracut with the default options produced an initrd of 27Mb, more than 4 times bigger than the initrd made by mkinitrd. It took 50 seconds (mkinitrd took 10seconds). 2nd attempt: omitting a few modules created an initrd only 2.5times bigger and in only 35seconds.
and with dracut --hostonly ? -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le vendredi 12 juillet 2013 à 10:53 +0200, Per Jessen a écrit :
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 11/07/13 05:18, Olaf Hering escribió:
mkinitrd has likely gained some more features and fixes since you collected that list.
Other than creating more and more bloated initrds everyday and it being totally ignorant about systemd and slower than dracut. it has not gained anything good.
On a test-system running 12.3:
1st attempt: Running dracut with the default options produced an initrd of 27Mb, more than 4 times bigger than the initrd made by mkinitrd. It took 50 seconds (mkinitrd took 10seconds). 2nd attempt: omitting a few modules created an initrd only 2.5times bigger and in only 35seconds.
and with dracut --hostonly ?
Yes, much better, see new thread. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.2°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free DNS hosting, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 11, Frederic Crozat wrote:
And those who advocate do not have to deal with the fallout, as usual..
Why are you saying that ?
Missed this part in the other reply. Of course a new tool like dracut or grub2 handles the common case fine. So it looks like a perfect replacement to advocates. The time others spent already to handle less common cases in existing code is usually ignored (or not considered). If dracut is like grub2, it will be no gain and maybe even a step backwards. Olaf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/11/2013 05:32 AM, Olaf Hering wrote:
On Thu, Jul 11, Frederic Crozat wrote:
And those who advocate do not have to deal with the fallout, as usual..
Why are you saying that ?
Missed this part in the other reply.
Of course a new tool like dracut or grub2 handles the common case fine. So it looks like a perfect replacement to advocates. The time others spent already to handle less common cases in existing code is usually ignored (or not considered). If dracut is like grub2, it will be no gain and maybe even a step backwards.
Olaf
How is it that other distros are using dracut? Can we learn something from their maintainers so that ideas do not have to be reinvented dracut? Cheers! Roman ------------------------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Get it! Discover it! Share it! ------------------------------------------------------- http://linuxcounter.net/ #179293 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Brian K. White -
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Frederic Crozat -
Olaf Hering -
Per Jessen -
Roman Bysh