[opensuse-factory] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1030936
Howdy all, I would like to submit a fix for https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1030936: adding "blacklist pcspkr" to /etc/modprobe.d/<some file>. This will turn off the horrible jarring error beeps in GTK programs systemwide. What would be the correct file/package to make the change in? - /etc/modprobe.d/50-blacklist.conf, from the sysconfig package? - /etc/modprobe.d/99-local.conf, from the suse-module-tools package? - Something else? Nate -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/22/2017 07:07 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
Howdy all, I would like to submit a fix for https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1030936: adding "blacklist pcspkr" to /etc/modprobe.d/<some file>. This will turn off the horrible jarring error beeps in GTK programs systemwide.
What would be the correct file/package to make the change in?
- /etc/modprobe.d/50-blacklist.conf, from the sysconfig package? - /etc/modprobe.d/99-local.conf, from the suse-module-tools package? - Something else?
Maybe you could also blacklist pulseaudio while you are at this. Or have they fixed this even more annoying beep via headphones and real speakers last years? cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/22/2017 11:18 AM, Rüdiger Meier wrote:
On 04/22/2017 07:07 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
Howdy all, I would like to submit a fix for https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1030936: adding "blacklist pcspkr" to /etc/modprobe.d/<some file>. This will turn off the horrible jarring error beeps in GTK programs systemwide.
What would be the correct file/package to make the change in?
- /etc/modprobe.d/50-blacklist.conf, from the sysconfig package? - /etc/modprobe.d/99-local.conf, from the suse-module-tools package? - Something else?
Maybe you could also blacklist pulseaudio while you are at this. Or have they fixed this even more annoying beep via headphones and real speakers last years?
I think this *is* that beep. My laptop doesn't have a motherboard speaker, and the horrible beep I'm proposing to disable comes from the main speakers. Nate -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 2017-04-22 21:06, Nate Graham wrote:
- /etc/modprobe.d/50-blacklist.conf, from the sysconfig package? - /etc/modprobe.d/99-local.conf, from the suse-module-tools package? - Something else?
Maybe you could also blacklist pulseaudio while you are at this. Or have they fixed this even more annoying beep via headphones and real speakers last years?
I think this *is* that beep. My laptop doesn't have a motherboard speaker, and the horrible beep I'm proposing to disable comes from the main speakers.
In case of laptop, the soundcard might have a Beep/PC Spkr mixer element that can control it. (The Lenovo X240 does, for example.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@inai.de> wrote:
On Saturday 2017-04-22 21:06, Nate Graham wrote:
- /etc/modprobe.d/50-blacklist.conf, from the sysconfig package? - /etc/modprobe.d/99-local.conf, from the suse-module-tools package? - Something else?
Maybe you could also blacklist pulseaudio while you are at this. Or have they fixed this even more annoying beep via headphones and real speakers last years?
I think this *is* that beep. My laptop doesn't have a motherboard speaker, and the horrible beep I'm proposing to disable comes from the main speakers.
In case of laptop, the soundcard might have a Beep/PC Spkr mixer element that can control it. (The Lenovo X240 does, for example.)
This is also the case with my Yoga 710. I haven't heard the (tty)console speaker beep in years. Just about had a heart attack when it started. It seems highly likely many kinds of laptops pipe the PC speaker through the main speakers, having a separate speaker just for that is an inefficient use of space (mildly speaking). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-04-23 00:47, Luke Jones wrote:
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@inai.de> wrote:
On Saturday 2017-04-22 21:06, Nate Graham wrote:
In case of laptop, the soundcard might have a Beep/PC Spkr mixer element that can control it. (The Lenovo X240 does, for example.)
This is also the case with my Yoga 710. I haven't heard the (tty)console speaker beep in years. Just about had a heart attack when it started.
It seems highly likely many kinds of laptops pipe the PC speaker through the main speakers, having a separate speaker just for that is an inefficient use of space (mildly speaking).
My desktop computer doesn't beep because the metal box didn't bring one, and I did not find one to connect. I do not know how to buy one, didn't look at it seriously. My laptop, however, beeps via the main speakers, and does so very loudly, at least in console mode. It makes me jump the first beep, say when I hit backspace one too much. I found a command to make it beeps much lower, about a year or two ago, but I forgot it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
In data domenica 23 aprile 2017 02:46:33, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
My desktop computer doesn't beep because the metal box didn't bring one, and I did not find one to connect. I do not know how to buy one, didn't look at it seriously.
https://www.amazon.com/PC-Internal-Mini-Onboard-Speaker/dp/B002W4M0DW http://www.ebay.com/bhp/motherboard-speaker I guess that is the part that you ideally search for. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-04-23 07:49, stakanov wrote:
In data domenica 23 aprile 2017 02:46:33, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
My desktop computer doesn't beep because the metal box didn't bring one, and I did not find one to connect. I do not know how to buy one, didn't look at it seriously.
https://www.amazon.com/PC-Internal-Mini-Onboard-Speaker/dp/B002W4M0DW
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/motherboard-speaker
I guess that is the part that you ideally search for.
Yes, indeed! Thanks. I considered using a speaker from an old radio, should work, but the problem was the connector. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 2017-04-23 14:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-04-23 07:49, stakanov wrote:
In data domenica 23 aprile 2017 02:46:33, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:
My desktop computer doesn't beep because the metal box didn't bring one, and I did not find one to connect. I do not know how to buy one, didn't look at it seriously.
https://www.amazon.com/PC-Internal-Mini-Onboard-Speaker/dp/B002W4M0DW
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/motherboard-speaker
I guess that is the part that you ideally search for.
Yes, indeed! Thanks.
I considered using a speaker from an old radio, should work, but the problem was the connector.
12€ on Amazon Spain. Imported from the UK, 3€ handling. Not sold by Amazon, but external. On "similar products" it offers mice! But found another one on the Spanish amazon, 5.99€ if I buy more things. They apparently sell 25 items for that price! Ok, found another bag of 10, free shipping, same price. Thanks, you put me on the track. My local computer shop doesn't have the thing, I thought it was impossible to get it :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On Sunday 2017-04-23 02:46, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-04-23 00:47, Luke Jones wrote:
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@inai.de> wrote:
On Saturday 2017-04-22 21:06, Nate Graham wrote:
In case of laptop, the soundcard might have a Beep/PC Spkr mixer element that can control it. (The Lenovo X240 does, for example.)
This is also the case with my Yoga 710. I haven't heard the (tty)console speaker beep in years. Just about had a heart attack when it started.
It seems highly likely many kinds of laptops pipe the PC speaker through the main speakers, having a separate speaker just for that is an inefficient use of space (mildly speaking).
My desktop computer doesn't beep because the metal box didn't bring one, and I did not find one to connect. I do not know how to buy one, didn't look at it seriously.
My laptop, however, beeps via the main speakers, and does so very loudly, at least in console mode. It makes me jump the first beep, say when I hit backspace one too much. I found a command to make it beeps much lower, about a year or two ago, but I forgot it.
echo -en "\e[10;freq]\e[11;duration]" (for vga tty, manpage: console_codes) and xset b ... (for xorg environments) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-04-23 10:36, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Sunday 2017-04-23 02:46, Carlos E. R. wrote:
My laptop, however, beeps via the main speakers, and does so very loudly, at least in console mode. It makes me jump the first beep, say when I hit backspace one too much. I found a command to make it beeps much lower, about a year or two ago, but I forgot it.
echo -en "\e[10;freq]\e[11;duration]" (for vga tty, manpage: console_codes)
Thanks, that works :-) This time I wrote a little script, "nobeep", so that I remember.
and
xset b ... (for xorg environments)
Noted :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlj+WSsACgkQja8UbcUWM1y8rAD+MAuy3s6w5FLzDNr7MrcsteWZ 9ku5MbcJdxr/yuBsRVYA/1SX4xAjdjR8rexegyCvhQd0LS8gr0F7ocjE5MKOoGsS =+Xp4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Goo, you guys make it all so complicated. I disable my PC's speaker very simply. I plug in the headphones. If I don't want any sound I turn down the volume on the headphones. Perhaps your machine is different, that plugging in headphones doesn't disable speaker. The advantage is that if I *do* want to listen to something, a podcast perhaps, I just use the headphone. I don't disturb anyone. -- I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them. -- Isaac Asimov -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/25/2017 09:41 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Goo, you guys make it all so complicated.
I disable my PC's speaker very simply. I plug in the headphones. If I don't want any sound I turn down the volume on the headphones.
Perhaps your machine is different, that plugging in headphones doesn't disable speaker.
The advantage is that if I *do* want to listen to something, a podcast perhaps, I just use the headphone. I don't disturb anyone.
On my laptop (and probably most modern laptops) the old-fashioned "PC speaker" is not a physical piece of hardware on the motherboard: it is purely virtual, and its audio is piped through the main speakers/headphone jack/audio channel *regardless of system volume*. So If you followed your normal routine with my hardware, one day when you were wearing your headphones with the volume down low or muted, you would accidentally hit the backspace, up, or left arrow key in a GTK text view and there would be an incredibly loud angry jarring beep right your eardrum at max volume. Nate -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/25/2017 05:46 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/25/2017 09:41 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Goo, you guys make it all so complicated.
I disable my PC's speaker very simply. I plug in the headphones. If I don't want any sound I turn down the volume on the headphones.
Perhaps your machine is different, that plugging in headphones doesn't disable speaker.
The advantage is that if I *do* want to listen to something, a podcast perhaps, I just use the headphone. I don't disturb anyone.
On my laptop (and probably most modern laptops) the old-fashioned "PC speaker" is not a physical piece of hardware on the motherboard: it is purely virtual, and its audio is piped through the main speakers/headphone jack/audio channel *regardless of system volume*. So If you followed your normal routine with my hardware, one day when you were wearing your headphones with the volume down low or muted, you would accidentally hit the backspace, up, or left arrow key in a GTK text view and there would be an incredibly loud angry jarring beep right your eardrum at max volume.
Just remove pulseaudio. This solves all these problems. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/25/2017 09:56 AM, Rüdiger Meier wrote:
On 04/25/2017 05:46 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/25/2017 09:41 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Goo, you guys make it all so complicated.
I disable my PC's speaker very simply. I plug in the headphones. If I don't want any sound I turn down the volume on the headphones.
Perhaps your machine is different, that plugging in headphones doesn't disable speaker.
The advantage is that if I *do* want to listen to something, a podcast perhaps, I just use the headphone. I don't disturb anyone.
On my laptop (and probably most modern laptops) the old-fashioned "PC speaker" is not a physical piece of hardware on the motherboard: it is purely virtual, and its audio is piped through the main speakers/headphone jack/audio channel *regardless of system volume*. So If you followed your normal routine with my hardware, one day when you were wearing your headphones with the volume down low or muted, you would accidentally hit the backspace, up, or left arrow key in a GTK text view and there would be an incredibly loud angry jarring beep right your eardrum at max volume.
Just remove pulseaudio. This solves all these problems.
And that breaks audio in Firefox, which now requires PulseAudio :) Returning to the past never works in the long term. The world changes, time marches on, and everything we once held dear will eventually be replaced with something foreign and alien. Such is life. And anyway, the true fix for this issue is really simple: just set "gtk-error-bell = 0" in /etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini and /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc Nate -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/25/2017 06:12 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/25/2017 09:56 AM, Rüdiger Meier wrote:
On 04/25/2017 05:46 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/25/2017 09:41 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Goo, you guys make it all so complicated.
I disable my PC's speaker very simply. I plug in the headphones. If I don't want any sound I turn down the volume on the headphones.
Perhaps your machine is different, that plugging in headphones doesn't disable speaker.
The advantage is that if I *do* want to listen to something, a podcast perhaps, I just use the headphone. I don't disturb anyone.
On my laptop (and probably most modern laptops) the old-fashioned "PC speaker" is not a physical piece of hardware on the motherboard: it is purely virtual, and its audio is piped through the main speakers/headphone jack/audio channel *regardless of system volume*. So If you followed your normal routine with my hardware, one day when you were wearing your headphones with the volume down low or muted, you would accidentally hit the backspace, up, or left arrow key in a GTK text view and there would be an incredibly loud angry jarring beep right your eardrum at max volume.
Just remove pulseaudiuserso. This solves all these problems.
And that breaks audio in Firefox, which now requires PulseAudio :)
My Firefox 52 still works fine without pulseaudio. I don't have any problems without pulseaudio.
Returning to the past never works in the long term. The world changes, time marches on, and everything we once held dear will eventually be replaced with something foreign and alien. Such is life.
And anyway, the true fix for this issue is really simple: just set "gtk-error-bell = 0" in /etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini and /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
I do not believe that this is all. I've had this beep also without any gtk or X programs involved. Anyways this beep was first and the last thing I've heard from pulseaudio many years ago. I've had it always blacklisted on all our machines since at least openSUSE 11.4 and we've never had any issues with audio again. No user ever complained that something is missing. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-04-25 18:36, Rüdiger Meier wrote:
I do not believe that this is all. I've had this beep also without any gtk or X programs involved. Anyways this beep was first and the last thing I've heard from pulseaudio many years ago. I've had it always blacklisted on all our machines since at least openSUSE 11.4 and we've never had any issues with audio again. No user ever complained that something is missing.
I do. Without pulseaudio, sometimes an application would take the sound devices for itself (say, a paused video in firefox) and block any other application to play any audio at all. For me, pulseaudio is a wonderful thing. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlj/064ACgkQja8UbcUWM1x4NwD+PydwVxq4vwHlCAzKTwi6KLdG /VRHbF2kV1AXq4H5DHkA/A++za9umkACeXeJRFOYMvndmwqCa/VG0RHAlmq4UDSF =P5Mo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2017-04-26 00:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Without pulseaudio, sometimes an application would take the sound devices for itself (say, a paused video in firefox) and block any other application to play any audio at all.
Uhm, alsa's integrated dmix plugin address just that. And it's even the default. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-04-26 02:36, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Wednesday 2017-04-26 00:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Without pulseaudio, sometimes an application would take the sound devices for itself (say, a paused video in firefox) and block any other application to play any audio at all.
Uhm, alsa's integrated dmix plugin address just that. And it's even the default.
Well, as I remember, it did not work. Often I had to find what program had the sound device and stop it before starting another. When pulseaudio was shipped and worked out of the box, I simply ditched alsa. The knowhow at the time said that I needed sound hardware designed for multitasking or something, that it was impossible. Well, pulse made it possible for me. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlkAEt4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1zMzgEAnHDG8FmSdQfuMWGuYLL6mjiT MO8z96flfKCliiQCnfYA/ipO6xNQZCXQiv5lqed/EY+1Le4SMzYE0PeSt8pMwJqG =zCl0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:12:00 -0600 Nate Graham <pointedstick@zoho.com> wrote:
On 04/25/2017 09:56 AM, Rüdiger Meier wrote:
On 04/25/2017 05:46 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/25/2017 09:41 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Goo, you guys make it all so complicated.
I disable my PC's speaker very simply. I plug in the headphones. If I don't want any sound I turn down the volume on the headphones.
Perhaps your machine is different, that plugging in headphones doesn't disable speaker.
The advantage is that if I *do* want to listen to something, a podcast perhaps, I just use the headphone. I don't disturb anyone.
On my laptop (and probably most modern laptops) the old-fashioned "PC speaker" is not a physical piece of hardware on the motherboard: it is purely virtual, and its audio is piped through the main speakers/headphone jack/audio channel *regardless of system volume*. So If you followed your normal routine with my hardware, one day when you were wearing your headphones with the volume down low or muted, you would accidentally hit the backspace, up, or left arrow key in a GTK text view and there would be an incredibly loud angry jarring beep right your eardrum at max volume.
Just remove pulseaudio. This solves all these problems.
And that breaks audio in Firefox, which now requires PulseAudio :)
Returning to the past never works in the long term. The world changes, time marches on, and everything we once held dear will eventually be replaced with something foreign and alien. Such is life.
And anyway, the true fix for this issue is really simple: just set "gtk-error-bell = 0" in /etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini and /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
Nate
Unless a theme author thinks that beeps are important and overrides that. Happened with scroll behavior for me - there is a global setting but because theme authors change it in themes scrollbars behave differently in each theme. GTK is such a wonderful piece of a framework. IMHO blacklisting pcspkr is the only true way of solving the issue for sound cards that do not have working volume control for it. On some sound cards either a separate control or the master control applies to the PC speaker so you can turn it down to bearable volume and/or mute it. On all other cards the piece of hardware is broken and totally deserves blacklisting. Thanks Michal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 4/25/2017 12:12 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/25/2017 09:56 AM, Rüdiger Meier wrote:
On 04/25/2017 05:46 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/25/2017 09:41 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Goo, you guys make it all so complicated.
I disable my PC's speaker very simply. I plug in the headphones. If I don't want any sound I turn down the volume on the headphones.
Perhaps your machine is different, that plugging in headphones doesn't disable speaker.
The advantage is that if I *do* want to listen to something, a podcast perhaps, I just use the headphone. I don't disturb anyone.
On my laptop (and probably most modern laptops) the old-fashioned "PC speaker" is not a physical piece of hardware on the motherboard: it is purely virtual, and its audio is piped through the main speakers/headphone jack/audio channel *regardless of system volume*. So If you followed your normal routine with my hardware, one day when you were wearing your headphones with the volume down low or muted, you would accidentally hit the backspace, up, or left arrow key in a GTK text view and there would be an incredibly loud angry jarring beep right your eardrum at max volume.
Just remove pulseaudio. This solves all these problems.
And that breaks audio in Firefox, which now requires PulseAudio :)
Returning to the past never works in the long term. The world changes,
Accepting and tolerating every terrible idea, such as allowing something like firefox to actually require something like pulseaudio, is no virtue. In the entire history of humanity, not one thing anywhere, ever, got better by accepting things as they are. That argument about accepting the status quo might seem to apply rather to "returning to the past", but the difference is, a bad idea is a bad idea, regardless if it is a new idea or an old idea. The reasons why a given idea are bad can be evaluated all by themselves and no opinions or ambiguity about it. Every idea surely provides some sort of benefit when viewed from some sort of context, and some sort of harm when viewed from some sort of context. The bad idea is the one that provides insufficient benefits to justify it's harms. The blind fanboy declines to recognize any harms, even when shown. The blind curmudgeon declines to recognize any benefits even when shown. No one can help being a little bit prejudiced one way or the other, but what IS reasonable to ask, is that everyone at least be cognizant of these universal facts of the human condition, and at least be holding the 3rd person view as the ideal they *aim* for, however imperfectly. The limitations and impositions and plain inconsideration of making pulseaudio a requirement for a browser as fundamental as firefox, inflict far more harm than benefit, and, on top of that, it does so without even the excuse of any pressing necessity. That's just, well, repeating myself, inexcusable. -- bkw
time marches on, and everything we once held dear will eventually be replaced with something foreign and alien. Such is life.
And anyway, the true fix for this issue is really simple: just set "gtk-error-bell = 0" in /etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini and /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
Nate
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/25/2017 11:13 AM, Brian K. White wrote:
Accepting and tolerating every terrible idea, such as allowing something like firefox to actually require something like pulseaudio, is no virtue.
In the entire history of humanity, not one thing anywhere, ever, got better by accepting things as they are.
I agree with you: we should embrace change that ultimately makes things better and easier, even if it's hard or breaks our workflow. But Firefox requiring Pulseaudio is not the stodgy status quo; it's the change! And it was a change that Mozilla made because PulseAudio is much easier for them to support than what it replaced. Every change is hard and scary, and breaks some aspects of the status quo. But as you said:
In the entire history of humanity, not one thing anywhere, ever, got better by accepting things as they are.
Nate -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 4/25/2017 2:22 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/25/2017 11:13 AM, Brian K. White wrote:
Accepting and tolerating every terrible idea, such as allowing something like firefox to actually require something like pulseaudio, is no virtue.
In the entire history of humanity, not one thing anywhere, ever, got better by accepting things as they are.
I agree with you: we should embrace change that ultimately makes things better and easier, even if it's hard or breaks our workflow. But Firefox requiring Pulseaudio is not the stodgy status quo; it's the change! And it was a change that Mozilla made because PulseAudio is much easier for them to support than what it replaced. Every change is hard and scary, and breaks some aspects of the status quo. But as you said:
In the entire history of humanity, not one thing anywhere, ever, got better by accepting things as they are.
Nate
Funny how I actually predicted how those phrases would be used, and why, and there they are, yet stripped of those inconvenient illuminations and pre-buttals. ;) -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 25.04.2017 19:13, Brian K. White wrote:
On 4/25/2017 12:12 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
And that breaks audio in Firefox, which now requires PulseAudio :)
These are alternative facts.
Accepting and tolerating every terrible idea, such as allowing something like firefox to actually require something like pulseaudio, is no virtue.
seife@susi:~> rpm -q --requires MozillaFirefox|grep pulse seife@susi:~> Fact check first, please. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-04-25 17:56, Rüdiger Meier wrote:
On 04/25/2017 05:46 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
On my laptop (and probably most modern laptops) the old-fashioned "PC speaker" is not a physical piece of hardware on the motherboard: it is purely virtual, and its audio is piped through the main speakers/headphone jack/audio channel *regardless of system volume*. So If you followed your normal routine with my hardware, one day when you were wearing your headphones with the volume down low or muted, you would accidentally hit the backspace, up, or left arrow key in a GTK text view and there would be an incredibly loud angry jarring beep right your eardrum at max volume.
Just remove pulseaudio. This solves all these problems.
It create others. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlj/0TkACgkQja8UbcUWM1zSUAEAguEXUKZMUKSXXCxFysQEaTNK 6WD985Lez6HJgl4ZMD8A/0P0ee+Au+pp1tRVLVmiCz+Yml+voBkM/yZZvEBeLtJc =dfTC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 2017-04-25 17:46, Nate Graham wrote:
On my laptop (and probably most modern laptops) the old-fashioned "PC speaker" is not a physical piece of hardware on the motherboard: it is purely virtual
No, not really virtual. At least I do not think so, for two reasons: - Sound chips (some, at least, maybe "many") have an input line for the PC speaker if you look at their functional block diagram. For example the AD1812 (which calls it just "MONO"). - x86 motherboards already have all the magic to make analog sound using the PIT, and the firmware that goes along with it. It is easier to just wire that in analog mode into the MONO line of a soundchip than it is to rewrite the BIOS/firmware to issue digital commands (ever-changing API!) to have a soundchip autonomously produce a squaresine wave. I am not saying it's impossible, but it seems overkill, and it's not like you are going to do Hi-Fi over pcspkr anyway that you absolutely need a digital transport. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-04-25 19:46, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Tuesday 2017-04-25 17:46, Nate Graham wrote:
On my laptop (and probably most modern laptops) the old-fashioned "PC speaker" is not a physical piece of hardware on the motherboard: it is purely virtual
No, not really virtual. At least I do not think so, for two reasons:
- Sound chips (some, at least, maybe "many") have an input line for the PC speaker if you look at their functional block diagram. For example the AD1812 (which calls it just "MONO").
- x86 motherboards already have all the magic to make analog sound using the PIT, and the firmware that goes along with it. It is easier to just wire that in analog mode into the MONO line of a soundchip than it is to rewrite the BIOS/firmware to issue digital commands (ever-changing API!) to have a soundchip autonomously produce a squaresine wave. I am not saying it's impossible, but it seems overkill, and it's not like you are going to do Hi-Fi over pcspkr anyway that you absolutely need a digital transport.
Yes, that's so. But if the audio hardware has a connector for the internal speaker line, then why isn't there a volume controller in the desktop app? In my laptop the speaker plays very loudly. I can control in console frequency and duration, but not volume. Nor in alsa/pulse mixers. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlj/1JIACgkQja8UbcUWM1yYGQD/RXP0gkJ0+aJ5j/MIlO56pP94 EKcpOrFGlbA/f46r8JkA/RgovafoFXI7cYPY/uNYFZpsUJfY3o1QR+FJOyF5xlVR =F5mb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-04-25 17:46, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/25/2017 09:41 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Goo, you guys make it all so complicated.
I disable my PC's speaker very simply. I plug in the headphones. If I don't want any sound I turn down the volume on the headphones.
Perhaps your machine is different, that plugging in headphones doesn't disable speaker.
That works for laptops, not desktops.
The advantage is that if I *do* want to listen to something, a podcast perhaps, I just use the headphone. I don't disturb anyone.
Yes, but... I only place the headphones on my head when I want to listen to something. When I expect a sound. Beeps are unexpected.
On my laptop (and probably most modern laptops) the old-fashioned "PC speaker" is not a physical piece of hardware on the motherboard: it is purely virtual, and its audio is piped through the main speakers/headphone jack/audio channel *regardless of system volume*. So If you followed your normal routine with my hardware, one day when you were wearing your headphones with the volume down low or muted, you would accidentally hit the backspace, up, or left arrow key in a GTK text view and there would be an incredibly loud angry jarring beep right your eardrum at max volume.
Yes, exactly. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlj/0RUACgkQja8UbcUWM1wndwD/SLQH7bLS0Sbo4iXMALef7UKm cSbktQJacVM0NwKnfgwBAJB8FKtB8rbTfRZCby07O2rtv7Du4SSILGJwMa5NTgBT =IMKf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I have a question on how to do this. I'm following the instructions at https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Collaboration. Once I check out the package and want to make some changes, the actual package contents are in a .tar.gz archive. Am I supposed to un-archive it, make my changes, bump the version and re-archive it? It feels like I'm fighting the system as I go about doing this, because that archive includes auto-generated files and a not-quite-exact duplicate of the contents in the .changes file outside of the archive. What's the correct workflow here? I'll be happy to update the wiki afterwards. Nate On 04/22/2017 11:07 AM, Nate Graham wrote:
Howdy all, I would like to submit a fix for https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1030936: adding "blacklist pcspkr" to /etc/modprobe.d/<some file>. This will turn off the horrible jarring error beeps in GTK programs systemwide.
What would be the correct file/package to make the change in?
- /etc/modprobe.d/50-blacklist.conf, from the sysconfig package? - /etc/modprobe.d/99-local.conf, from the suse-module-tools package? - Something else?
Nate
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Samstag, 22. April 2017, 21:30:41 CEST schrieb Nate Graham:
I have a question on how to do this. I'm following the instructions at https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Collaboration.
Once I check out the package and want to make some changes, the actual package contents are in a .tar.gz archive. Am I supposed to un-archive it, make my changes, bump the version and re-archive it?
Unarchive, make your changes in a copy of the source, create a diff and apply this as patch to your branched project. So the original source remains untouched. HTH Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-04-22 20:18, Axel Braun wrote:
Unarchive, make your changes in a copy of the source, create a diff and apply this as patch to your branched project. So the original source remains untouched.
and that part can be nicely done with a tool called 'quilt' when in the checkout of package foo, you typically do quilt setup foo.spec cd foo-VERSIONNUMBER quilt push -a quilt new NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch quilt edit PATH/FILE_TO_EDIT quilt diff # optional quilt refresh cp patches/NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch .. cd .. /usr/lib/build/spec_add_patch NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch Ciao Bernhard M. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
23.04.2017 08:38, Bernhard M. Wiedemann пишет:
On 2017-04-22 20:18, Axel Braun wrote:
Unarchive, make your changes in a copy of the source, create a diff and apply this as patch to your branched project. So the original source remains untouched.
and that part can be nicely done with a tool called 'quilt' when in the checkout of package foo, you typically do quilt setup foo.spec cd foo-VERSIONNUMBER quilt push -a quilt new NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch quilt edit PATH/FILE_TO_EDIT quilt diff # optional
quilt header -e # to supply meaningful description to your patch
quilt refresh cp patches/NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch ..
Not needed (or probably fails), quilt makes patches symlink to .. already.
cd .. /usr/lib/build/spec_add_patch NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch
Note that quilt depends on RPM to extract sources/apply patches which means if any macro references in spec is missing quilt fails. This is especially the problem with spec files created for different distribution. Less so for openSUSE, still may happen. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/23/2017 03:16 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
23.04.2017 08:38, Bernhard M. Wiedemann пишет:
On 2017-04-22 20:18, Axel Braun wrote:
Unarchive, make your changes in a copy of the source, create a diff and apply this as patch to your branched project. So the original source remains untouched.
and that part can be nicely done with a tool called 'quilt' when in the checkout of package foo, you typically do quilt setup foo.spec cd foo-VERSIONNUMBER quilt push -a quilt new NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch quilt edit PATH/FILE_TO_EDIT
Alternatively instead of quilt edit, "quilt add PATH/FILE_TO_EDIT" then edit in a graphical editor of your choice, not all of these work with quilt edit.
quilt diff # optional
quilt header -e # to supply meaningful description to your patch
quilt refresh cp patches/NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch ..
Not needed (or probably fails), quilt makes patches symlink to .. already.
cd .. /usr/lib/build/spec_add_patch NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch
Note that quilt depends on RPM to extract sources/apply patches which means if any macro references in spec is missing quilt fails. This is especially the problem with spec files created for different distribution. Less so for openSUSE, still may happen.
-- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On 23/04/2017 13:14, Simon Lees wrote:
Alternatively instead of quilt edit, "quilt add PATH/FILE_TO_EDIT" then edit in a graphical editor of your choice, not all of these work with quilt edit. I have this in the last line of ~/.quiltrc "EDITOR=kwrite" the graphical editor of my choice. Whenever I invoke "quilt edit" the file to be edited opens in kwrite. Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/24/2017 12:54 AM, Dave Plater wrote:
On 23/04/2017 13:14, Simon Lees wrote:
Alternatively instead of quilt edit, "quilt add PATH/FILE_TO_EDIT" then edit in a graphical editor of your choice, not all of these work with quilt edit. I have this in the last line of ~/.quiltrc "EDITOR=kwrite" the graphical editor of my choice. Whenever I invoke "quilt edit" the file to be edited opens in kwrite. Dave P
I have issues with atom as if its already running it will return immediately and spawn a new window from the existing process. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On 04/22/2017 11:46 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
23.04.2017 08:38, Bernhard M. Wiedemann пишет:
On 2017-04-22 20:18, Axel Braun wrote:
Unarchive, make your changes in a copy of the source, create a diff and apply this as patch to your branched project. So the original source remains untouched.
and that part can be nicely done with a tool called 'quilt' when in the checkout of package foo, you typically do quilt setup foo.spec cd foo-VERSIONNUMBER quilt push -a quilt new NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch quilt edit PATH/FILE_TO_EDIT quilt diff # optional
quilt header -e # to supply meaningful description to your patch
quilt refresh cp patches/NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch ..
Not needed (or probably fails), quilt makes patches symlink to .. already.
cd .. /usr/lib/build/spec_add_patch NAME_OF_YOUR_NEW.patch
Note that quilt depends on RPM to extract sources/apply patches which means if any macro references in spec is missing quilt fails. This is especially the problem with spec files created for different distribution. Less so for openSUSE, still may happen.
Thanks everyone, this is really helpful. I've done all that and submitted request id #490042 for the sysconfig package, fixing https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1030936. Along the way, I updated the wiki (https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Collaboration) and found a bug in `quilt` (https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/index.php?50862). Nate -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 23.04.2017 um 20:31 schrieb Nate Graham:
Thanks everyone, this is really helpful. I've done all that and submitted request id #490042 for the sysconfig package, fixing https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1030936. Along the way, I updated the wiki (https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Collaboration) and found a bug in `quilt` (https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/index.php?50862).
Your "solution" is ridiculous. This makes not only gtk stop beeping (as you wrote) but kills the pc speaker completely. And as you put it in blacklist.conf there is not even an easy way to override it. Totally unacceptable IMHO. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/24/2017 12:23 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 23.04.2017 um 20:31 schrieb Nate Graham:
Thanks everyone, this is really helpful. I've done all that and submitted request id #490042 for the sysconfig package, fixing https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1030936. Along the way, I updated the wiki (https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Collaboration) and found a bug in `quilt` (https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/index.php?50862).
Your "solution" is ridiculous. This makes not only gtk stop beeping (as you wrote) but kills the pc speaker completely.
And as you put it in blacklist.conf there is not even an easy way to override it.
Totally unacceptable IMHO.
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017? Honest question, not being passive-aggressive! Regardless, I'm fine with an alternative approach that's Wayland-compatible (i.e. not turning it off in X). I tried disabling the beeps in various GTK rc files, but none of them seemed to have any effect. Nate -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 24.04.2017 um 20:28 schrieb Nate Graham:
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017?
Yes. It works everywhere, even in the boot loader.
Regardless, I'm fine with an alternative approach that's Wayland-compatible (i.e. not turning it off in X). I tried disabling the beeps in various GTK rc files, but none of them seemed to have any effect.
Then fix GTK, not break everything else :-) -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/24/2017 12:37 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 24.04.2017 um 20:28 schrieb Nate Graham:
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017?
Yes. It works everywhere, even in the boot loader.
Does my change disable it in the bootloader? My impression is that besides indicating POST errors, it isn't really useful once the computer boots up--except for almost giving you a heart attack when you're using GTK programs!
Regardless, I'm fine with an alternative approach that's Wayland-compatible (i.e. not turning it off in X). I tried disabling the beeps in various GTK rc files, but none of them seemed to have any effect.
Then fix GTK, not break everything else :-)
Sounds like a better plan. After some trial and error, it looks like my original supposition in the bug was right all along, so I'm going to cancel this patch and do another one with the correct solution (set "gtk-error-bell = 0" in /etc/gtk-3.0/settings.ini and /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc). Thanks for the feedback, Stefan! Nate -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 2017-04-24 20:57, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/24/2017 12:37 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 24.04.2017 um 20:28 schrieb Nate Graham:
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017?
Yes. It works everywhere, even in the boot loader.
Does my change disable it in the bootloader? My impression is that besides indicating POST errors, it isn't really useful once the computer boots up--except for almost giving you a heart attack when you're using GTK programs!
Well, since your case seems to be the minority here, why not just add a blacklist for your own machine(s) and not touch openSUSE? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/24/2017 01:16 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Monday 2017-04-24 20:57, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/24/2017 12:37 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 24.04.2017 um 20:28 schrieb Nate Graham:
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017?
Yes. It works everywhere, even in the boot loader.
Does my change disable it in the bootloader? My impression is that besides indicating POST errors, it isn't really useful once the computer boots up--except for almost giving you a heart attack when you're using GTK programs!
Well, since your case seems to be the minority here, why not just add a blacklist for your own machine(s) and not touch openSUSE?
Contrary to impressions, I don't have anything against the PC speaker. :) I'm just curious. However I haven't met anyone who likes the horrible jarring beeps in GTK programs! I do plan to submit a patch to turn those (and only those) off for everyone, so nobody else has to almost have a heart attack when they hit the up arrow key in a text field. Nate -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2017-04-24 21:17, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/24/2017 01:16 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Monday 2017-04-24 20:57, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/24/2017 12:37 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 24.04.2017 um 20:28 schrieb Nate Graham:
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017?
Yes. It works everywhere, even in the boot loader.
Does my change disable it in the bootloader? My impression is that besides indicating POST errors, it isn't really useful once the computer boots up--except for almost giving you a heart attack when you're using GTK programs!
No, there are other places. It can remind one that Grub is starting, so that it is the instant to choose another boot option; that's one place. It is supposed to beep when you hit ctrl-alt-backspace in X, the first time; ie, to warn of big errors. It can be used to warn of alerts, that there is an important message in syslog to look at.
Well, since your case seems to be the minority here, why not just add a blacklist for your own machine(s) and not touch openSUSE?
Contrary to impressions, I don't have anything against the PC speaker. :) I'm just curious. However I haven't met anyone who likes the horrible jarring beeps in GTK programs! I do plan to submit a patch to turn those (and only those) off for everyone, so nobody else has to almost have a heart attack when they hit the up arrow key in a text field.
I use XFCE, which uses GTK, and I don't remember a beep. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlj+WtoACgkQja8UbcUWM1w7xwD+OFse+wM/PUfImBf3GVtHOCoD Ir5nDzsydQp5/xEGckkA/0NQ8e1rdq6UUTTFq79E/jZW9C1A4UZFpwVfL0m8Y5oG =cpbJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 24.04.2017 20:57, Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/24/2017 12:37 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 24.04.2017 um 20:28 schrieb Nate Graham:
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017?
Yes. It works everywhere, even in the boot loader.
Does my change disable it in the bootloader? My impression is that besides indicating POST errors, it isn't really useful once the computer boots up--except for almost giving you a heart attack when you're using GTK programs!
no, it does not change it in the boot loader. But the beeper is universal in that it works just everywhere -- console, bootloader, BIOS, even GTK programs! :-) I use it for example on my home server to notify me of serious errors (file system, disk problems, stuff you'd rather notice sooner than later). Works very well as someone in my family will call me and complain that the box in the closet is issuing annoying beeps :-) Of course I could also use the sound card, add an amplifioer and play some wav file. But that's much more effort. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-04-25 10:58, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
no, it does not change it in the boot loader. But the beeper is universal in that it works just everywhere -- console, bootloader, BIOS, even GTK programs! :-)
I use it for example on my home server to notify me of serious errors (file system, disk problems, stuff you'd rather notice sooner than later). Works very well as someone in my family will call me and complain that the box in the closet is issuing annoying beeps :-) Of course I could also use the sound card, add an amplifioer and play some wav file. But that's much more effort.
I tried to do that, but I found that a daemon can not beep: it needs having the terminal. How did you do it? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 25.04.2017 13:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-04-25 10:58, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
no, it does not change it in the boot loader. But the beeper is universal in that it works just everywhere -- console, bootloader, BIOS, even GTK programs! :-)
I use it for example on my home server to notify me of serious errors (file system, disk problems, stuff you'd rather notice sooner than later). Works very well as someone in my family will call me and complain that the box in the closet is issuing annoying beeps :-) Of course I could also use the sound card, add an amplifioer and play some wav file. But that's much more effort.
I tried to do that, but I found that a daemon can not beep: it needs having the terminal.
How did you do it?
(in C code) echo -en '\007' > /dev/tty1 or, to avoid the problem of "is a terminal there at all?" - open /dev/input/eventX corresponding to pcspkr - write struct input_event filled with EV_SND/SND_TONE/hz value into that file descriptor. But usually, just writing (char)'\007' to a terminal is enough. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-04-25 14:17, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On 25.04.2017 13:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-04-25 10:58, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
no, it does not change it in the boot loader. But the beeper is universal in that it works just everywhere -- console, bootloader, BIOS, even GTK programs! :-)
I use it for example on my home server to notify me of serious errors (file system, disk problems, stuff you'd rather notice sooner than later). Works very well as someone in my family will call me and complain that the box in the closet is issuing annoying beeps :-) Of course I could also use the sound card, add an amplifioer and play some wav file. But that's much more effort.
I tried to do that, but I found that a daemon can not beep: it needs having the terminal.
How did you do it?
(in C code) echo -en '\007' > /dev/tty1
or, to avoid the problem of "is a terminal there at all?" - open /dev/input/eventX corresponding to pcspkr - write struct input_event filled with EV_SND/SND_TONE/hz value into that file descriptor.
I want to try that someday, but I use Pascal (Lazarus), so I'll think how to translate that one day, so thanks :-) If you can point to some C code doing it, it would help, of course. Notes for later use: cat /proc/bus/input/devices I: Bus=0010 Vendor=001f Product=0001 Version=0100 N: Name="PC Speaker" P: Phys=isa0061/input0 S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/pcspkr/input/input6 U: Uniq= H: Handlers=kbd event3 B: PROP=0 B: EV=40001 B: SND=6 Mmm... https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90826 http://2010-2014.itech-planet.net/content/reading-device-input-directly-from...
But usually, just writing (char)'\007' to a terminal is enough.
cer@Telcontar:~> echo -en '\007' > /dev/tty10 bash: /dev/tty10: Permission denied cer@Telcontar:~> Only works as root. Other terminals, depends on who owns each terminal. Or have user belong to group tty... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On Thursday 2017-05-04 14:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Notes for later use:
cat /proc/bus/input/devices
I: Bus=0010 Vendor=001f Product=0001 Version=0100
That thing always exists even if it does not exist, because it is tied to the traditional keyboard, which also always exists even if not plugged in. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-05-04 14:24, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Thursday 2017-05-04 14:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Notes for later use:
cat /proc/bus/input/devices
I: Bus=0010 Vendor=001f Product=0001 Version=0100
That thing always exists even if it does not exist, because it is tied to the traditional keyboard, which also always exists even if not plugged in.
Oh. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 04.05.2017 14:24, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Thursday 2017-05-04 14:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Notes for later use:
cat /proc/bus/input/devices
I: Bus=0010 Vendor=001f Product=0001 Version=0100
That thing always exists even if it does not exist, because it is tied to the traditional keyboard, which also always exists even if not plugged in.
seife:~ # grep -C2 Speaker /proc/bus/input/devices I: Bus=0010 Vendor=001f Product=0001 Version=0100 N: Name="PC Speaker" P: Phys=isa0061/input0 S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/pcspkr/input/input8 seife:~ # rmmod pcspkr seife:~ # grep -C2 Speaker /proc/bus/input/devices seife:~ # So no, the "PC Speaker" input device (which is an output device... ;-)) does only exist if pcspkr is loaded. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 2017-05-04 16:09, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On 04.05.2017 14:24, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Thursday 2017-05-04 14:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Notes for later use:
cat /proc/bus/input/devices
I: Bus=0010 Vendor=001f Product=0001 Version=0100
That thing always exists even if it does not exist, because it is tied to the traditional keyboard, which also always exists even if not plugged in.
seife:~ # grep -C2 Speaker /proc/bus/input/devices
I: Bus=0010 Vendor=001f Product=0001 Version=0100 N: Name="PC Speaker" P: Phys=isa0061/input0 S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/pcspkr/input/input8 seife:~ # rmmod pcspkr seife:~ # grep -C2 Speaker /proc/bus/input/devices seife:~ #
So no, the "PC Speaker" input device (which is an output device... ;-)) does only exist if pcspkr is loaded.
What I meant is that "outb 0x61,..." will always succeed (even if there is no speaker connected to the two pins) - unlike outb to 0x170 ports (disk), which won't give you something usable if the disk is missing ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-05-04 16:27, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
What I meant is that "outb 0x61,..." will always succeed (even if there is no speaker connected to the two pins) - unlike outb to 0x170 ports (disk), which won't give you something usable if the disk is missing ;-)
Well, of course. You only need the timer chip to be there, and it is so basic, from the original IBM PC, that the ports will always be there. No need for the speaker to be connected. Another thing is if you say that the speakers sounds even if not connected - is that it? Some hardware on the keyboard? :-? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On Thursday 2017-05-04 21:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-05-04 16:27, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
What I meant is that "outb 0x61,..." will always succeed (even if there is no speaker connected to the two pins) - unlike outb to 0x170 ports (disk), which won't give you something usable if the disk is missing ;-)
Well, of course. You only need the timer chip to be there, and it is so basic, from the original IBM PC, that the ports will always be there. No need for the speaker to be connected.
Another thing is if you say that the speakers sounds even if not connected - is that it? Some hardware on the keyboard? :-?
Beepers were also in keyboards (especially in the terminal era). I could be wrong, but IIRC the moderately modern Sun4 keyboard still had one integrated. But what I really mean is that the x86 KBC provides the "API" to sound the bell, and this API is always there, even if a sound-emitting (such as a speaker a.k.a. electromagnet+membrane) or a sound-visualizing device (such as an oscilloscope) is not present. Just like you can always make a sound card play or a video card render something even if no speakers/monitor is connected. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-05-04 23:03, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Thursday 2017-05-04 21:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-05-04 16:27, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
What I meant is that "outb 0x61,..." will always succeed (even if there is no speaker connected to the two pins) - unlike outb to 0x170 ports (disk), which won't give you something usable if the disk is missing ;-)
Well, of course. You only need the timer chip to be there, and it is so basic, from the original IBM PC, that the ports will always be there. No need for the speaker to be connected.
Another thing is if you say that the speakers sounds even if not connected - is that it? Some hardware on the keyboard? :-?
Beepers were also in keyboards (especially in the terminal era). I could be wrong, but IIRC the moderately modern Sun4 keyboard still had one integrated.
Ah. But I think the IBM PC keyboard was differently defined.
But what I really mean is that the x86 KBC provides the "API" to sound the bell, and this API is always there, even if a sound-emitting (such as a speaker a.k.a. electromagnet+membrane) or a sound-visualizing device (such as an oscilloscope) is not present. Just like you can always make a sound card play or a video card render something even if no speakers/monitor is connected.
What I recall of the hardware specs of the PC speaker says that there is no way to know if the speaker is actually connected. You program the timer (two, actually, IIRC), and the pins get the oscillating voltage, that's all. It was a very basic hardware initially, also used to program the RAM refresh via DMA, so it was always present. They just used a spare timer in the chip. That's from memory. I would have to dig out some old photocopies to be certain. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
Nate Graham wrote:
On 04/24/2017 12:23 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 23.04.2017 um 20:31 schrieb Nate Graham:
Thanks everyone, this is really helpful. I've done all that and submitted request id #490042 for the sysconfig package, fixing https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1030936. Along the way, I updated the wiki (https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Collaboration) and found a bug in `quilt` (https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/index.php?50862).
Your "solution" is ridiculous. This makes not only gtk stop beeping (as you wrote) but kills the pc speaker completely.
And as you put it in blacklist.conf there is not even an easy way to override it.
Totally unacceptable IMHO.
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017? Honest question, not being passive-aggressive!
Hardware is long-lived, and some hardware have no other (controllable) sound emitter. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.7°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 2017-05-07 18:24, Per Jessen wrote:
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017? Honest question, not being passive-aggressive!
Hardware is long-lived, and some hardware have no other (controllable) sound emitter.
It has nothing to do with long-livedness -- it just makes a damn lot of sense from an economic POV. A "real" soundcard is like 13× the price of a 1-bit mainboard speaker because of all the logic chips, occupies a precious PCI slot in your 1RU server, and you still don't have speaker boxes to hear beeps (or soft PCM bells)... And because €0.50 (less than that!) is cheap for a 1-bit speaker, you just get them for free even with new hardware as a handy debug aid in the pre-boot phase. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Sunday 2017-05-07 18:24, Per Jessen wrote:
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017? Honest question, not being passive-aggressive!
Hardware is long-lived, and some hardware have no other (controllable) sound emitter.
It has nothing to do with long-livedness
In reference to the OP's "today in 2017" I think it does. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-05-07 18:44, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Sunday 2017-05-07 18:24, Per Jessen wrote:
Wow, I had no idea people were so attached to the PC speaker! :) Is the PC speaker really relevant to userland today in 2017? Honest question, not being passive-aggressive!
Hardware is long-lived, and some hardware have no other (controllable) sound emitter.
It has nothing to do with long-livedness -- it just makes a damn lot of sense from an economic POV. A "real" soundcard is like 13× the price of a 1-bit mainboard speaker because of all the logic chips, occupies a precious PCI slot in your 1RU server, and you still don't have speaker boxes to hear beeps (or soft PCM bells)...
And because €0.50 (less than that!) is cheap for a 1-bit speaker, you just get them for free even with new hardware as a handy debug aid in the pre-boot phase.
I have a mini PC from MSI, a Cubi N. Doesn't beep. The box is so small that probably adding that tiny hardware is too much. I don't even know if there are pins for it, but I'm not going to open it for checking any time soon... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On Sunday 2017-05-07 23:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The box is so small that probably adding that tiny hardware is too much. I don't even know if there are pins for it, but I'm not going to open it for checking any time soon...
Gee, I've heard that in many a TV episodes. "Will he ever find out about the mysterious pins? What new challenges await him there? ... Stay tuned and find out in the next episode of opensuse-*" [and 50 eps later, it's still unsolved] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-05-08 02:03, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Sunday 2017-05-07 23:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The box is so small that probably adding that tiny hardware is too much. I don't even know if there are pins for it, but I'm not going to open it for checking any time soon...
Gee, I've heard that in many a TV episodes. "Will he ever find out about the mysterious pins? What new challenges await him there? ... Stay tuned and find out in the next episode of opensuse-*" [and 50 eps later, it's still unsolved]
LOL! I did have a good look at the cardbox. There are some papers inside, but none is a detailed photo of the motherboard. It must be a PDF these times. If I downloaded it, I don't remember where I saved it... I'll try google (Cubi N-020BEU) I can only find commercial brochures. Ah! Found it. Apparently. Seems an older version. https://us.msi.com/product/barebone/support/Cubi-Mini-PC-Kit.html#down-manua... No motherboard plan, though :-( So, no beeper so far. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 07/05/17 12:44 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
It has nothing to do with long-livedness -- it just makes a damn lot of sense from an economic POV. A "real" soundcard is like 13× the price of a 1-bit mainboard speaker because of all the logic chips, occupies a precious PCI slot in your 1RU server, and you still don't have speaker boxes to hear beeps (or soft PCM bells)...
I'm puzzled. My Dell Mobo has sound output and video output and USB output but none of the slots are occupied. As far as I can make out all these functions are managed by the Intel 82 thousand chip set. It seems to be not the 'extra chips' so much as you get all this in the chip set whether you want it or not. If I wanted blazing video, yes I could plug in a nVidia board (assuming my PSU can handle it) and disable the on-board. If I wanted 5-dimensional surround sound (and paid for all the speakers and power amps) I could plug in a sound card ditto. YMMV. I don't have the motivation. I'm sure there are enough consumers quite happy with cost effectiveness of the integrated 'everything you need on the mobo' approach. I don't know if there is a old fashioned speaker. I'll look the next time I open the box to clean out the cat hair jamming up the fans. :-) When I come to think of it I get to wonder abut how many PCI slots vs what's on the mobo with my cell phone and table :-) OBTW: Its a Dell Optiplex 755. I have a headphone jacked in to the front socket but the headphone's own volume is turned off. -- Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 2017-05-08 15:23, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 07/05/17 12:44 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
It has nothing to do with long-livedness -- it just makes a damn lot of sense from an economic POV. A "real" soundcard is like 13× the price of a 1-bit mainboard speaker because of all the logic chips, occupies a precious PCI slot in your 1RU server, and you still don't have speaker boxes to hear beeps (or soft PCM bells)...
My Dell Mobo has sound output and video output and USB output but none of the slots are occupied. [OBTW: Its a Dell Optiplex 755.]
yeah the optiplex is not exactly a server (which is all I was talking about). Time to resolve: Thinking of the low-cost TYAN/Supermicro boards -- picking a random example like ftp://ftp.tyan.com/img_mobo/S7012_2D.jpg --, there is no analog 3.5 jack sound to be found at this angle. On the other hand, there is a PC speaker: the black circle immediately southeast of the the CR2032 battery. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (16)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Anton Aylward -
Axel Braun -
Bernhard M. Wiedemann -
Brian K. White -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Plater -
Jan Engelhardt -
Luke Jones -
Michal Suchánek -
Nate Graham -
Per Jessen -
Rüdiger Meier -
Simon Lees -
stakanov -
Stefan Seyfried