[opensuse-factory] Some comment on openSUSE 10.3 and GNOME after a month from release
It's almost a month openSUSE 10.3 was released, and having used it since the beginning, I think it's time for some comment about the distribution in general and on my favourite desktop environment, GNOME, in particular. It's a bit long, but well, I hope not too boring ;-) About the distribution, great improvements were obtained concerning boot time and the package manager, which is now in a usable, even though not perfect state. The new media selection made the distribution more accessible, thanks to the 1 CD installation, and the 1 click install significantly simplified the installation procedure. All these new features improved the user experience a lot, left me quite impressed, and increased the interest in the distribution thanks also to the new communication medium represented by news.opensuse.org. However, these very positive elements, which I think puts 10.3 at a good distance from 10.2, are somewhat reduced in their importance but issues caused mainly by lack of attention and care in details after the release. I'm mainly thinking to: * The release of broken java packages, which are now somewhat fixed on systems which didn't install the broken patch, leaving others to fix it manually. * Issues with kernel upgrades and nvidia drivers kmp's, reported on IRC and forums by some user. * The, in my opinion wrong, choice to prepare a kmp with the newest ATI driver, which doesn't support older cards, without adopting a solution as nvidia did. About GNOME, I was initially positively impressed by GNOME in openSUSE 10.3 for various positive elements brought in this release, such as the new updater applet and YaST-GTK which provide a better integration between classical SUSE features and the GNOME desktop environment. These things, together with the fresher look due to the green artwork, the main menu and the international clock taken from SLED SP1, are great improvements and improved the impression openSUSE 10.3 had on the public. However, after almost a month I use openSUSE, I think there are still major issues, which might prevent users to use it, and should be fixed soon. Here is some example, but a simple search in bugzilla list all of them. * Using GNOME after the first login/logout is annoying or impossible because: * The launchers in main-menu are slow or not responding at all (The standard menu is working). * YaST has similar issues to main-menu. Modules do not start or start after a long delay since when clicked. * Logout/shutdown functionalities are not working anymore and suspend/standby buttons are grayed out. * There are lacking dependencies for applets, like the deskbar (Bug 328912, reported before release) or others, for which a patch still has to come (python dependency lacks), while the bug, reported in beta 2, is marked as fixed in bugzilla. * Anjuta is obsolete (Provided version 1.2.4a - Available version 2.2.2), and the provided version starts up with 3 error messages. The bug was reported in beta 2 and was fixed in GNOME:STABLE, upgrading to 2.2.2, but a patch still has to come. * Evolution crashes when doing common operations like selecting contacts category (Bug 335546), has issues with Exchange (Bug 328149, found before release), and lacks of some of the most published features of GNOME 2.20, as the backup feature (Bug 331752). * Gedit is compiled without python support (Bug 299546), while it has python support on other distributions (read Fedora, to cite one). * Bug-buddy is dumbed down, without the possibility of reporting bugs (Bug 307860, reported in beta 2). I think bug reporters and testers did their job during the development stage, the bug slashing weekend and the community contribution to 10.3 were probably the biggest since the birth of the project. As a consequence, I think some more effort to fix at least the most annoying bugs, some more care in trying patches even with the cooperation of the community, and a somewhat less restrictive approach to patch releases (we are at "only security stuff" now) should be really considered. P.S. Sorry for the cross-post on gnome and factory :-) With kind regards, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
It's almost a month openSUSE 10.3 was released, and having used it since the beginning, I think it's time for some comment about the distribution in general and on my favourite desktop environment, GNOME, in particular. It's a bit long, but well, I hope not too boring ;-)
About the distribution, great improvements were obtained concerning boot time and the package manager, which is now in a usable, even though not perfect state. The new media selection made the distribution more accessible, thanks to the 1 CD installation, and the 1 click install significantly simplified the installation procedure. All these new features improved the user experience a lot, left me quite impressed, and increased the interest in the distribution thanks also to the new communication medium represented by news.opensuse.org.
However, these very positive elements, which I think puts 10.3 at a good distance from 10.2, are somewhat reduced in their importance but issues caused mainly by lack of attention and care in details after the release.
I'm mainly thinking to:
* The release of broken java packages, which are now somewhat fixed on systems which didn't install the broken patch, leaving others to fix it manually.
* Issues with kernel upgrades and nvidia drivers kmp's, reported on IRC and forums by some user.
* The, in my opinion wrong, choice to prepare a kmp with the newest ATI driver, which doesn't support older cards, without adopting a solution as nvidia did.
About GNOME, I was initially positively impressed by GNOME in openSUSE 10.3 for various positive elements brought in this release, such as the new updater applet and YaST-GTK which provide a better integration between classical SUSE features and the GNOME desktop environment. These things, together with the fresher look due to the green artwork, the main menu and the international clock taken from SLED SP1, are great improvements and improved the impression openSUSE 10.3 had on the public.
However, after almost a month I use openSUSE, I think there are still major issues, which might prevent users to use it, and should be fixed soon. Here is some example, but a simple search in bugzilla list all of them.
* Using GNOME after the first login/logout is annoying or impossible because:
* The launchers in main-menu are slow or not responding at all (The standard menu is working). * YaST has similar issues to main-menu. Modules do not start or start after a long delay since when clicked. * Logout/shutdown functionalities are not working anymore and suspend/standby buttons are grayed out.
* There are lacking dependencies for applets, like the deskbar (Bug 328912, reported before release) or others, for which a patch still has to come (python dependency lacks), while the bug, reported in beta 2, is marked as fixed in bugzilla.
* Anjuta is obsolete (Provided version 1.2.4a - Available version 2.2.2), and the provided version starts up with 3 error messages. The bug was reported in beta 2 and was fixed in GNOME:STABLE, upgrading to 2.2.2, but a patch still has to come.
* Evolution crashes when doing common operations like selecting contacts category (Bug 335546), has issues with Exchange (Bug 328149, found before release), and lacks of some of the most published features of GNOME 2.20, as the backup feature (Bug 331752).
* Gedit is compiled without python support (Bug 299546), while it has python support on other distributions (read Fedora, to cite one).
* Bug-buddy is dumbed down, without the possibility of reporting bugs (Bug 307860, reported in beta 2).
I think bug reporters and testers did their job during the development I stage, the bug slashing weekend and the community contribution to 10.3 were probably the biggest since the birth of the project.
As a consequence, I think some more effort to fix at least the most annoying bugs, some more care in trying patches even with the cooperation of the community, and a somewhat less restrictive approach to patch releases (we are at "only security stuff" now) should be really considered.
P.S. Sorry for the cross-post on gnome and factory :-)
With kind regards, Alberto
A couple of problems I reported to bugzilla, #336969 - rebooting after zypper up -t package, a string of errors I couldn't read. I had to do fsck.ext3 on the partition, the system booted, then stuff didn't work, especially building apps. I found that the symlinks were all wrong, so I had to download the affected packages and do "rpm -Uvh --nodeps --force <package>.x84_64.rpm to straighten things out. Last night I tried "alien -t xxx.rpm" which returned a usage message that was not from alien, /usr/bin/alien was definitely an executable and I had to dowload the alien package and "rpm -Uvh alien-xxx.rpm" to straighten it out. Crazy symlinks like below, I have fixed everything I've come across, "ldconfig -v" helped point to them. /lib64, /lib, /sbin and /bin were clean, /usr/lib, /usr/lib64, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin were all affected. mysqldumpslow -> libscrollkeeper.so.0.0.0 # l /usr/bin/smbprngenpdf lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 19 2007-10-21 01:26 /usr/bin/smbprngenpdf -> libwiretap.so.0.0.1 pauseme -> ../lib/texmf/bin/x86_64-linux/mex ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/lib64/graphviz/perl: No such file or directory ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/lib64/graphviz/php: No such file or directory ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/lib64/graphviz/ocaml: No such file or directory ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/lib64/graphviz/python: No such file or directory ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/lib64/graphviz/lua: No such file or directory ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/lib64/graphviz/tcl: No such file or directory ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/lib64/graphviz/guile: No such file or directory ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/lib64/graphviz/ruby: No such file or directory lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 32 2007-10-21 01:22 pdfclose -> ../share/pwlib/make/ptlib-config* # rpm -qf /usr/bin/pdfclose texlive-2007-80 # rpm -qf /usr//share/pwlib/make/ptlib-config pwlib-devel-1.10.10-8 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2007-10-21 01:24 pfb2pfa -> libQtOpenGL.so.4.3.2 # rpm -qi texlive Name : texlive Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 2007 Vendor: SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Nuernberg, Germany Release : 80 Build Date: Tue 16 Oct 2007 22:01:05 BST Install Date: Sun 21 Oct 2007 01:45:21 BST Build Host: cara.suse.de # l /usr/sbin/apxs2-prefork lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2007-10-21 01:31 /usr/sbin/apxs2-prefork -> libavahi-ui.so.0.0.1 At times the hard drive access light goes solid on for about a minute and the system freezes for the duration, then everything is OK. Something misbehaved, don't know what. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 02:12 +0100, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
* Using GNOME after the first login/logout is annoying or impossible because:
* The launchers in main-menu are slow or not responding at all (The standard menu is working). * YaST has similar issues to main-menu. Modules do not start or start after a long delay since when clicked. * Logout/shutdown functionalities are not working anymore and suspend/standby buttons are grayed out.
Being worked on in: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=331577
* There are lacking dependencies for applets, like the deskbar (Bug 328912, reported before release) or others, for which a patch still has to come (python dependency lacks), while the bug, reported in beta 2, is marked as fixed in bugzilla.
The deskbar applet was a mistake made in communicating with the maintenance team. We've been preparing to resubmit the fix so the patch is issued.
* Anjuta is obsolete (Provided version 1.2.4a - Available version 2.2.2), and the provided version starts up with 3 error messages. The bug was reported in beta 2 and was fixed in GNOME:STABLE, upgrading to 2.2.2, but a patch still has to come.
Unfortunately a patch will not come as this upgrade involves new packages.
* Evolution crashes when doing common operations like selecting contacts category (Bug 335546), has issues with Exchange (Bug 328149, found before release), and lacks of some of the most published features of GNOME 2.20, as the backup feature (Bug 331752).
I know the evolution team was preparing a set of fixes, they may be able to give a status.
* Gedit is compiled without python support (Bug 299546), while it has python support on other distributions (read Fedora, to cite one).
Unfortunate side effect of the upgrade to gtksourceview without using the shared library policy: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=337396
* Bug-buddy is dumbed down, without the possibility of reporting bugs (Bug 307860, reported in beta 2).
This was fixed in GNOME 2.20.1 upstream, we have begun backporting this for release.
I think bug reporters and testers did their job during the development stage, the bug slashing weekend and the community contribution to 10.3 were probably the biggest since the birth of the project.
As a consequence, I think some more effort to fix at least the most annoying bugs, some more care in trying patches even with the cooperation of the community, and a somewhat less restrictive approach to patch releases (we are at "only security stuff" now) should be really considered.
I agree, but you will need to convince coolo or the board when that
starts functioning to change this policy.
-JP
--
JP Rosevear
I think bug reporters and testers did their job during the development stage, the bug slashing weekend and the community contribution to 10.3 were probably the biggest since the birth of the project.
As a consequence, I think some more effort to fix at least the most annoying bugs, some more care in trying patches even with the cooperation of the community, and a somewhat less restrictive approach to patch releases (we are at "only security stuff" now) should be really considered.
I agree, but you will need to convince coolo or the board when that starts functioning to change this policy.
Thanks for your answer. I will try for sure. I perfectly understand the potential risk of making this policy less strict, because of the work it would add to the teams and also to the increase of requests it might lead to. What we need, I think, is a set of criteria to follow to decide if a not security related patch is necessary, with a reduced and clear set of cases, like impossibility to use functions which should already be present in the released version, to exclude the request of fully new packages, which is not the goal. We should try to discuss this in a status meeting, if possible. With kind regards, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Alberto Passalacqua -
JP Rosevear -
Sid Boyce