[opensuse-factory] Deprecation of devel:languages:python3
Hello all, as per $SUBJ all the packages that were in tumbleweed are properly migrated to python singlespec and removed from the repository. As such within a month +- we will delete the repository and keep just one devel:languages:python. Please if you have something that is of interest just move it (and if applicable migrate to singlespec) and make sure it is submitted against Tumbleweed. As a followup we will later try to reduce the failures and content in devel:languages:python where plan is to keep it all in Tumbleweed and maintained, while removing cruft that was just submitted to devel project and never forwarded for openSUSE releases. Cheers Tom
On Thu, 2017-10-12 at 15:32 +0200, Tomas Chvatal wrote:
As a followup we will later try to reduce the failures and content in devel:languages:python where plan is to keep it all in Tumbleweed and maintained, while removing cruft that was just submitted to devel project and never forwarded for openSUSE releases. Ah my precious cruft :( Now I have to submit it to Factory ...
M
On Thursday 2017-10-12 15:49, martin@pluskal.org wrote:
On Thu, 2017-10-12 at 15:32 +0200, Tomas Chvatal wrote:
As a followup we will later try to reduce the failures and content in devel:languages:python where plan is to keep it all in Tumbleweed and maintained, while removing cruft that was just submitted to devel project and never forwarded for openSUSE releases. Ah my precious cruft :( Now I have to submit it to Factory ...
First world problems! Other parts of the world don't even have factories let alone tumbling weed. ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I'm a bit late to this conversation but is the intention to completly get rid of python 2? I work with Python as my main language and while we work mostly with Python 3 there all still some occassions where we need a working verison of python 2. Mike On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Tomas Chvatal <tchvatal@suse.cz> wrote:
Hello all,
as per $SUBJ all the packages that were in tumbleweed are properly migrated to python singlespec and removed from the repository.
As such within a month +- we will delete the repository and keep just one devel:languages:python.
Please if you have something that is of interest just move it (and if applicable migrate to singlespec) and make sure it is submitted against Tumbleweed.
As a followup we will later try to reduce the failures and content in devel:languages:python where plan is to keep it all in Tumbleweed and maintained, while removing cruft that was just submitted to devel project and never forwarded for openSUSE releases.
Cheers
Tom
-- Michael Aquilina -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-10-12 13:52:59 +0000, Michael Aquilina wrote:
I'm a bit late to this conversation but is the intention to completly get rid of python 2? I work with Python as my main language and while we work mostly with Python 3 there all still some occassions where we need a working verison of python 2.
well long term it would be nice to get rid of python2. wouldnt you agree? darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I 100% agree, but the reality is that a lot of us will be working with python 2 for a while to come - especially when it comes to legacy systems which we cant migrate. A lot of the time the decision to move to python 3 is not up the developer, but higher level management that take care of the product. On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Marcus Rueckert <darix@opensu.se> wrote:
On 2017-10-12 13:52:59 +0000, Michael Aquilina wrote:
I'm a bit late to this conversation but is the intention to completly get rid of python 2? I work with Python as my main language and while we work mostly with Python 3 there all still some occassions where we need a working verison of python 2.
well long term it would be nice to get rid of python2. wouldnt you agree?
darix
-- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Michael Aquilina -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-10-12 14:02:45 +0000, Michael Aquilina wrote:
I 100% agree, but the reality is that a lot of us will be working with python 2 for a while to come - especially when it comes to legacy systems which we cant migrate. A lot of the time the decision to move to python 3 is not up the developer, but higher level management that take care of the product.
you had time for almost 10years now. time to move on finally. -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Once again, its not really up to me or any developer similar to my situation (and I am aware of quite a few). Very often large python 2.7 codebases are so tied to 2.7 that it becomes infeasible for a business to halt work with actual business value for such a large time. Companies will not see the benefit in a migration so large and that has no user facing value. I personally suspect that the 2020 end of life will not really get to that stage just because of this situation. However, from my perspective the situation isn't be too bad if you guys still feel really strongly about this and continue on with this. Worst case scenario we can always download the python 2.7 tarball and bypass the package manager. I think you _at the very least should_ be aware that this will negatively affect the workflow of quite a few developers though. On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Marcus Rueckert <darix@opensu.se> wrote:
On 2017-10-12 14:02:45 +0000, Michael Aquilina wrote:
I 100% agree, but the reality is that a lot of us will be working with python 2 for a while to come - especially when it comes to legacy systems which we cant migrate. A lot of the time the decision to move to python 3 is not up the developer, but higher level management that take care of the product.
you had time for almost 10years now. time to move on finally.
-- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Michael Aquilina -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 2017-10-12 16:16, Michael Aquilina wrote:
you had time for almost 10years now. time to move on finally.
However, from my perspective the situation isn't be too bad if you guys still feel really strongly about this and continue on with this. Worst case scenario we can always download the python 2.7 tarball and bypass the package manager.
That is actually an argument for removing python2 *now* (or more genrally: $software $sooner_than_later), since you already made up your mind about using the tarball. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I'm just trying to be pragmatic about the situation. I feel like this will affect people but at the same time I would not want it to hold back moving forward if we feel it is necessary. One question I have is, what will happen to existing python2 installations? Will they just dissappear at some point? Mike On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:21 PM, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@inai.de> wrote:
On Thursday 2017-10-12 16:16, Michael Aquilina wrote:
you had time for almost 10years now. time to move on finally.
However, from my perspective the situation isn't be too bad if you guys still feel really strongly about this and continue on with this. Worst case scenario we can always download the python 2.7 tarball and bypass the package manager.
That is actually an argument for removing python2 *now* (or more genrally: $software $sooner_than_later), since you already made up your mind about using the tarball.
-- Michael Aquilina -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 2017-10-12 16:23, Michael Aquilina wrote:
I'm just trying to be pragmatic about the situation. I feel like this will affect people but at the same time I would not want it to hold back moving forward if we feel it is necessary.
One question I have is, what will happen to existing python2 installations? Will they just dissappear at some point?
Who knows. There probably will be zombie systems running it forever, just like DOS and Windows 98. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-10-12 14:23:13 +0000, Michael Aquilina wrote:
I'm just trying to be pragmatic about the situation. I feel like this will affect people but at the same time I would not want it to hold back moving forward if we feel it is necessary.
Those people/companies then need to step up: 1. keep maintaining the python 2 support in the distros and just as important 2. keep maintaining the code base *upstream* just to give you an idea ... the world moves forward ... for python2 to move with the world it needs to support e.g. openssl 1.1 or soon 1.2. Who will do the port? One could argue that enterprise customers do not want latest openssl they are happy with the version they have. but even then some customers do want to have e.g. TLS 1.2 or soon 1.3 ... that might require a new version of the openssl package and python 2 to work with it. You can add any other library here that might be used by python 2. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
We plan to slowly remove the python2 as per upstream lifecycle https://pythonclock.org/ I would assume we will remove to kill it at the end of 2019. HTH Tom Michael Aquilina píše v Čt 12. 10. 2017 v 14:52 +0100:
I'm a bit late to this conversation but is the intention to completly get rid of python 2? I work with Python as my main language and while we work mostly with Python 3 there all still some occassions where we need a working verison of python 2.
Mike
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Tomas Chvatal <tchvatal@suse.cz> wrote:
Hello all,
as per $SUBJ all the packages that were in tumbleweed are properly migrated to python singlespec and removed from the repository.
As such within a month +- we will delete the repository and keep just one devel:languages:python.
Please if you have something that is of interest just move it (and if applicable migrate to singlespec) and make sure it is submitted against Tumbleweed.
As a followup we will later try to reduce the failures and content in devel:languages:python where plan is to keep it all in Tumbleweed and maintained, while removing cruft that was just submitted to devel project and never forwarded for openSUSE releases.
Cheers
Tom
-- Michael Aquilina
Tomas Chvatal wrote:
We plan to slowly remove the python2 as per upstream lifecycle
I would assume we will remove to kill it at the end of 2019.
This unofficial "clock" says April 2020. Also the above web page says "No official date has been given..". So why remove it before that time? Ciao, Michael.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Michael Ströder píše v Pá 13. 10. 2017 v 00:00 +0200:
Tomas Chvatal wrote:
We plan to slowly remove the python2 as per upstream lifecycle
I would assume we will remove to kill it at the end of 2019.
This unofficial "clock" says April 2020. Also the above web page says "No official date has been given..".
So why remove it before that time?
There is no exact date specified, but 2.7 is operating with support window of 10 years and thats it. Unless companies step up and start maintaining it.
The clock is simply counting down to pycon so it might be less or it might be bit more. But still it is better to be ready in advance now. Also this is just SUSE statement that we will try to reduce our exposure of python2 and simply be ready for the deprecation, so if you as a community member volunteer to maintain the stuff you are more than welcome, but please read this sentece as is "to maintain" not just set one as bugowner and pretend everything is green. Cheers Tom -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJZ4HBkAAoJEOSiRoyO7jvoFy4QAJp+0bjXOMlBzgdQNOBIS1rF X5wNfWyKIbgNwxh6IAFX3ql7DvhMaipFGL3xxxU0QEg7SE5XSN2KzvuiDahMWo86 2RryAqAc74a393nGhc9H2SxldK8npMGvTRTRhX4Sd3RU7NnciuWL0Eb3M1n4cAeH wGsrQOflqgW6m5tNBdqp6jk5EcOYmBkSga1bfj+0sFz3lgHTz6HLrRoqzDbgr9rY vvg9VV+xLQamjn715RPKVA/hDM+NdiOcDykP4xHB9VUrkm1VcKEbR8aOo0jx8FSV fJFUrgFZ9qzWRQgealNlIRMG3DkIrJdJSYfPD6wUEuXibRSoWfNQPwQXj5KaNyJX BQtVXF0KLEbWtrJ8RWKcPaCUzljEAy53E1Y4oHteejgZvufnaJ3t4gPq16s+kcfg 21/qmdsveZ2XxJmHN3l4nfVsc7x/TXNzvD+6JvFAQ0HYycvkpITKe9d6fivVIlwi mr4rKgNITYK/+E70R4kzD3YWcrawIN9MiiQ/52zNpsp2nAobOZiruCgcU2s9JSaY Y1No925jSt4wFhmm/zpVHTyNPOiNpvHHO7DxlSnFV1YuaPMWh1BiCF7nDQQXQLW7 VJxIVZ8ffpJgVImh1G49l2hywhz770a84cBwJClwLLyqjzEpCoveZS4ReCxJKIGm yJcjF7ayB2OBAUZ4TyGv =ZzZ5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Michael Aquilina <michaelaquilina@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm a bit late to this conversation but is the intention to completly get rid of python 2? I work with Python as my main language and while we work mostly with Python 3 there all still some occassions where we need a working verison of python 2.
Mike
Mike, The openSUSE team is giving us 2 years notice that they will be strongly considering removing python 2 as of the end of 2019. You likely need to identify where python 2 is still important and start notifying stakeholders / managers that 2 years from now python 2 support will start disappearing. But its not just an openSUSE issue, it much bigger than that. I assume you know one of the traditional ways to keep legacy code running is to put it inside a VM and secure the VM with tight firewalls. So it Leap 42.3 for instance were the last python 2 supporting version of openSUSE, you just keep a Leap 42.3 VM going as long as you need python 2. FYI: I know I have some python 2 stuff I maintain still, but its not even the direct upstream. Its dependencies they call that haven't yet added python 3 support. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Tomas Chvatal <tchvatal@suse.cz> wrote:
Hello all,
as per $SUBJ all the packages that were in tumbleweed are properly migrated to python singlespec and removed from the repository.
As such within a month +- we will delete the repository and keep just one devel:languages:python.
Please if you have something that is of interest just move it (and if applicable migrate to singlespec) and make sure it is submitted against Tumbleweed.
As a followup we will later try to reduce the failures and content in devel:languages:python where plan is to keep it all in Tumbleweed and maintained, while removing cruft that was just submitted to devel project and never forwarded for openSUSE releases.
Cheers
Tom
Sorry for the late reply. I think there is a lot of stuff that is in devel:languages:python but that isn't really appropriate for openSUSE:Factory. I would strongly suggest either keeping those package in devel:languages:python or creating a new repository (perhaps python:extra or devel:languages:python:extra) for such packages. Also, there are still hundreds of packages in devel:languages:python3. I would suggest that, rather than deleting it now, it has building and publishing disabled and all rpms wiped from the server, but that the OSC repository is kept to easy singlespec porting efforts. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On mardi, 17 octobre 2017 21.05:01 h CEST Todd Rme wrote:
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Tomas Chvatal <tchvatal@suse.cz> wrote:
Hello all,
as per $SUBJ all the packages that were in tumbleweed are properly migrated to python singlespec and removed from the repository.
As such within a month +- we will delete the repository and keep just one devel:languages:python.
Please if you have something that is of interest just move it (and if applicable migrate to singlespec) and make sure it is submitted against Tumbleweed.
As a followup we will later try to reduce the failures and content in devel:languages:python where plan is to keep it all in Tumbleweed and maintained, while removing cruft that was just submitted to devel project and never forwarded for openSUSE releases.
Cheers
Tom
Sorry for the late reply.
I think there is a lot of stuff that is in devel:languages:python but that isn't really appropriate for openSUSE:Factory. I would strongly suggest either keeping those package in devel:languages:python or creating a new repository (perhaps python:extra or devel:languages:python:extra) for such packages.
Also, there are still hundreds of packages in devel:languages:python3. I would suggest that, rather than deleting it now, it has building and publishing disabled and all rpms wiped from the server, but that the OSC repository is kept to easy singlespec porting efforts.
I'm also in favor of, I've done my backport interest normally, but I certainly forget some. Saving build power, and mirror space is good. -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Bruno Friedmann -
Greg Freemyer -
Jan Engelhardt -
Marcus Rueckert -
martin＠pluskal.org -
Michael Aquilina -
Michael Ströder -
Todd Rme -
Tomas Chvatal